Croft Pre/Power Latest

[Haselsh1]

It's now eight months since I bought my Croft Micro 25 Basic pre amp and Croft Series Seven power amp so I thought I would give you the latest information on how things are going. OK, so going is the operative word here. The mains switch on the Series Seven completely disintegrated three days ago and fell to pieces. This has left me with a seven hundred pound power amp that is completely useless. I have ordered a new switch from Amazon that should arrive today at a cost of £1.92 that I am now going to be responsible for fitting to the amp that to be quite honest, should have lasted more than eight months. The cost of returning the amplifier to Croft would have been in excess of forty pounds due to its value so as far as I am concerned is an immediate non starter especially as I have already stated, I expect a seven hundred pound amplifier to last longer than eight months. I would like to add that had I kept my Audiolab 8000M's, I doubt I would now be in this boat with no paddle.

As you can tell, I am seriously not impressed that a seven hundred pound amplifier uses a £1.50 mains switch that simply falls to pieces after a few activations. I now await the fate of the preamp switch which is almost certainly the same unit. If you are considering a Croft pre/power combination, mine may well be up for sale in the not too distant future. At least the power amp will be fitted with a decent mains switch.

[Marco]

Hi Shaun,

Sorry to hear about this, however let me check a couple of things first....

Didn't you buy the Croft brand new from Dave at Radlett Audio?

If so, it should still be under guarantee, and if that's the case I'm sure Dave would arrange for a courier to collect the amp from you and return it repaired free of charge.

Have you spoken with Dave about this?

Marco.

[Techno Commander]

Or failing that, I am sure Croft would post you a replacement switch.

[Haselsh1]

Marco I did indeed buy this amp from Dave and e-mailed him some days ago but have not heard anything back. Also, you're right, it is still under warranty. If it could be collected from me and returned to me the problem would be solved and I wouldn't be quite so bloody furious about this supposed wonderful amplifier that can't last longer than eight months.

[Marco]

Hi Shaun,

Knowing Dave and how customer focussed he is, all I can presume is that either he didn't receive your email, hasn't seen it yet, or he has seen it but hasn't had a chance yet to reply....

What I'd suggest you do is call him instead on 01799 599080. In the meantime, I'll also bring this thread to his attention.

Don't worry, once Dave's on the case your amp will be collected by courier, repaired F.O.C, and returned by courier to you A.S.A.P :)

Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Andy,


Or failing that, I am sure Croft would post you a replacement switch.

Yes, but as the amp was bought brand new from a dealer, and is still under warranty, Shaun shouldn't have to fix the problem. In his position, I certainly wouldn't be entertaining doing that.

That's why you pay full retail price and use an established dealer - to get proper back up in circumstances like this.

Marco.

[Alex_UK]

I know Hifi Dave has had email issues (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8126) so I would definitely check you have the right email address or even better try giving Dave a call, Shaun.

Without wishing to offend, sometimes these things happen, (probably a manufacturing fault on the switch) - I think you are being a bit harsh on the amps (I have never seen one, let alone owned one or have any affiliation) - just about every car I've ever bought new has had something go wrong with it in the first year (in some cases lots of things!) Machines unfortunately, are not infallible.

The measure of how good the manufacturer and/or dealer is comes when they sort the problems for you - I think Croft &/or Radlett (HiFi Dave) are likely to give service second to none but most likely they didn't know about the problem - much harder to resolve a customer's problem if you don't know about it! I know you were enjoying your amps very much so I'd urge you to give them the chance to resolve your problem before throwing the baby out with the bathwater... Just my 2p.

[Marco]

Hi Alex,

I think Dave's change of email address is likely to fully explain the situation. However, he needs to update the contact details on his site with that new info:

http://www.radlettaudio.co.uk/contact.html

Observe the contact email address given. It ain't david.hifi@btinternet.com (the correct address)....

There's not much point in posting an announcement on AoS and then not altering the details where they matter most! ;)

Marco.

[Alex_UK]

Hi Alex,

I think Dave's change of email address is likely to fully explain the situation. However, he needs to update the contact details on his site with that new info:

http://www.radlettaudio.co.uk/contact.html

Observe the contact email address given. It ain't david.hifi@btinternet.com (the correct address)....

There's not much point in posting an announcement on AoS and then not altering the details where they matter most! ;)

Marco.

The one you've quoted is Dave's personal email address I believe - he did say in the other thread that he would be changing the Radlett one from Hotmail and would advise when/what - that may not have happened yet, so the hotmail one may still be valid - or else Dave could be waiting for the website to be updated - anyway, if people use the btinternet one they should be ok.

[Marco]

Indeed - the new one is the email address he's asking everyone to use, though (as per the thread you linked to in the trade room), so that's really what should also be featured on his site.

TBH, I've no idea why Dave has a 'poxy' Hotmail address for his business instead of using his registered domain name to generate a proper email address, such as dave@radlettaudio.co.uk or info@radlettaudio.co.uk, etc....

It would look far more professional :)

Marco.

[hifi_dave]

Hi Shaun,
Sorry to learn about the problem but I've not received an e-mail or phone call from you.

Anyway, the switch (obviously) shouldn't have deteriorated but these things do happen sometimes. The switch, whilst being an inexpensive item, I have seen on some very expensive gear, so price is not an issue.

If you want a switch, I will get Glenn to send you one ASAP free of charge of course. Alternatively, you can return the amp to Glenn and I will pay the carriage/insurance cost. Whatever is best for you. Please let me know.

[DSJR]

May I chip in here and say that my Series 4PP and both the "Crofted" Quad II's use a similar switch (from RS I think mine are from) and they're used to switch the respective items on and off daily. In all fairness, they show no sign of failing after nigh on twenty years use.....

HiFi Dave is the man you bought them from and it's he you have the contract with. Glenn will probably be mortified in any case and will be very keen to have you happy as quickly as possible. It's a great shame that you've had this switch failure (and Dave W is on the end of a telephone as well you know ;))

Good luck with the repair. I hope you get it sorted as quickly as possible...

By the way, Dave and I regularly moan at each other via his Hotmail account :D

[matodono1]

It's now eight months since I bought my Croft Micro 25 Basic pre amp and Croft Series Seven power amp so I thought I would give you the latest information on how things are going. OK, so going is the operative word here. The mains switch on the Series Seven completely disintegrated three days ago and fell to pieces. This has left me with a seven hundred pound power amp that is completely useless. I have ordered a new switch from Amazon that should arrive today at a cost of £1.92 that I am now going to be responsible for fitting to the amp that to be quite honest, should have lasted more than eight months. The cost of returning the amplifier to Croft would have been in excess of forty pounds due to its value so as far as I am concerned is an immediate non starter especially as I have already stated, I expect a seven hundred pound amplifier to last longer than eight months. I would like to add that had I kept my Audiolab 8000M's, I doubt I would now be in this boat with no paddle.

As you can tell, I am seriously not impressed that a seven hundred pound amplifier uses a £1.50 mains switch that simply falls to pieces after a few activations. I now await the fate of the preamp switch which is almost certainly the same unit. If you are considering a Croft pre/power combination, mine may well be up for sale in the not too distant future. At least the power amp will be fitted with a decent mains switch.

Shaun,

You really have to decide whether or not you are a friend or a foe. First of all you slagged off all the dealers who wouldn't take a credit card. Then you got the amps and have spent the last eight months singing their praises. And now a switch has broken and once again you are on here bumping your gums about how bad it all is. Surely this Jekyll and Hyde routine has got to be tiring? So why not knock it off?

First thing to say is that Glenn buys his parts from either RS Spares or Rapid Electronics. Both have a reputation in the industry for supplying parts of a reasonable quality. Glenn as we know builds amps from modest components and leaves hifi esoterics to the tweakers and modifiers.

Second thing to say is that a toggle switch is much like a light bulb or a valve. One might last for twenty years or five minutes. There is no way to predict it. I happen to fly remote control helicopters and use a Radio System that cost over £700, my radio uses the same switches as my amplifier and there is no difference whether or not I fly with a £100 pound radio or my £700 radio. The same switches are employed and sometimes they break (fact of life).

If you have had no joy from Dave (who is your dealer and your first port of call) then telephone Glenn on 01723 358010 or email Glenn at glenn (AT) croftacoustics.co.uk he will quickly arrange for the repair and get it back to you. And there is no reason to pay £40 to ship the amp either. I have sent them all over the country for £15 Special Delivery fully insured. In fact I am pretty sure that Glenn would be willing to have the amp picked up by his courier, so why all the drama? Once again? Why not try dealing with your issues properly with the individuals concerned in person, rather than indescreetly and cynically on a public forum?

And BTW there is a reason why you didn't keep your Audiolabs, they sound like crap.

Matt.

[anthonyTD]

hi shaun,
i understand your frustration but as others have said these things happen, even a switch costing upwards of £20-00 could fail if there was a flaw in the manufacturing process which is what i suspect has happend here.
Glenn croft is welll known and has been for many years for making excellent products at both ends of the price range, and i am sure he would not have used a part that was inherently prone to failure within a year of purchase!:doh:
And like others have said if glenn has read what has been written here i would think he will be pretty upset by this [ i know i would] and will want to put things right as soon as posible for you, just give him the chance!!!:)
Anthony,TD

[DSJR]

Glenn and his retailer/friend hifi dave are good people and neither of them want headaches, so I know that between them, they'll get the op sorted asap, given the chance..

[Haselsh1]

Hi-Fi Dave being the gentleman he obviously is and being a true businessman is sorting this issue out for me. Also the guy above who stated the reason I got rid of the Audiolabs is quite correct; the Croft is infinitely better.

You are also correct about the switch being a standard RS component and therefore easy to fail as a mass market item. Maybe I just expect too much for my seven hundred pounds.

[Macca]

I own a Croft Micro Basic and have had a series 7 power on loan and have to agree with Shaun that the power switches do look a bit pathetic. Whether a more heavy duty switch would necessarily last longer I don't know.

Personally I like switches to look like something that opens the bomb bay doors on a Lancaster, and I think Glenn could usefully fit something a bit chunkier at a cost of a couple of quid more IMHO.

Shaun - I e-mailed Hi-Fi Dave for some advice a while back and he could not have been more helpful so I would give him a chance to sort before chucking any more rocks:)

Regards

[Haselsh1]

Shaun,
Why not try dealing with your issues properly with the individuals concerned in person, rather than indescreetly and cynically on a public forum?

And BTW there is a reason why you didn't keep your Audiolabs, they sound like crap.

Matt.

So its ok for the likes of Ken Kessler to do exactly that in a glossy magazine but its not ok to warn possible future purchasers of equipment on a public forum...?

I am merely making people aware of the possible pittfalls of owning this equipment and what can go wrong in a very short space of time. The way I do it is the same as the way other people do it. They impart their views on what they are saying just the way you do in fact but of course you appear to overlook that fact.

If its ok with Marco, I shall continue to contribute to this forum in just the same way I always have done. Sometimes its very positive but other times it's not. That's life.

[matodono1]

So its ok for the likes of Ken Kessler to do exactly that in a glossy magazine but its not ok to warn possible future purchasers of equipment on a public forum...?

I am merely making people aware of the possible pittfalls of owning this equipment and what can go wrong in a very short space of time. The way I do it is the same as the way other people do it. They impart their views on what they are saying just the way you do in fact but of course you appear to overlook that fact.

If its ok with Marco, I shall continue to contribute to this forum in just the same way I always have done. Sometimes its very positive but other times it's not. That's life.

Ken Kessler happens to like Croft and that's about all he's got going for him. Other than that the hifi comics and comic journo's provide almost no service to the end consumer. Truth is that advertising budgets speak louder than the quality of products themselves and that is why hifi is such a minefield.

So Shaun if you truly are a Kessler wanabee then by all means post away to your heart's content. My point was that you had started your backlash before giving anyone a chance to respond to your issue along proper channels. When I called Glenn yesterday he had no knowledge of your issue, and was, as others predicted, suitably dismayed. You will get it fixed and it will cost you nothing.

And what use is your reportage? Especially as the odds against another switch breaking in another amplifier purchased by another consumer (who you care so much about) are so slim!

From my view your posts both this time and the last have been nothing but cynical and destructive. Criticism has it's place but usually when you have some sort of justification. Your issue is likely to be a total one off, so I don't think so in this instance.

I might point out that my views are my own and not necessarily shared by Glenn or any of his dealers.

Matt.

[Haselsh1]

Criticism has it's place but usually when you have some sort of justification.

I'd call a broken one pound fifty switch on a seven hundred pound amplifier justification way beyond the norm.

I do not endorse anything that Mr Kessler says and have no association with him.

[John]

Shaun have you got any idea how hard it is to get a £700 amp sounding as good as the Croft a £1.50 switch sounds realistic to me

[Haselsh1]

Ok, ok, I concede defeat. I obviously expect far too much for almost a grand. The £1.92 switch that I have just fitted to the Croft has turned out to be no better than the original unit.

:(

[Ali Tait]

Well you can either have the money spent on the case and the switches,or where it really counts-on what's inside.700 quid is notgthat much for a good amp.

[Haselsh1]

Well you can either have the money spent on the case and the switches,or where it really counts-on what's inside.700 quid is notgthat much for a good amp.

Yeah I have to agree with that point. Back in 1982 when I worked for a hi-fi business we sold the early Musical Fidelity amps and this was specifically their statement.

[matodono1]

I'd call a broken one pound fifty switch on a seven hundred pound amplifier justification way beyond the norm.

I do not endorse anything that Mr Kessler says and have no association with him.

Again Shaun, a one pound fifty switch can last five minutes or twenty years (and there are plenty out there that have) The same aplies to more expensive switches all of which employ delicate contacts which can fatique. THERE IS NO WAY TO PREDICT OR GUARANTEE THIS!

Yes you spent good money on an amplifier, you contacted your dealer who for whatever reason was slow to respond. Never the less your amp is still under warranty your dealer was always going to deal with it. You were always going to get your amp repaired free of charge (if you had chosen to send it back). You were never going to lose on this one.

But again before the person who would have resolved your problem (i.e. Glenn) was even aware of it, you chose to come on here and slag off his products based on a one off fault with a cheap and easily replaced component. According to your reasoning the hard earned reputation of one of the nation's best loved hifi maverick depends upon the reliability of every RS component that he solders into his amplifiers. Apparently he is not allowed to experience an occasional failure without fear of having it (and a blight on his products) plastered all over the internet.

And all this at the same time as you exclaim the laudability of the Croft sound. After you have spent the last eight months recommending the amps to others on this same forum.

Exactly how two faced can you get Shaun?

And to justify your public service reportage it was you who associated yourself with Ken Kessler and now you distance yourself in this latest post.

I have been buying Croft products for sixteen years and have spent several thousands doing so. Occasionally they go wrong, but Glenn has never let me down. I am a friend of Croft. What are you?

Matt.

[Reid Malenfant]

Matt, can i ask a question please? What is your reasoning in going over the very same points time & again :scratch:

From where i'm sitting it looks like you are attempting to provoke some kind of reaction, if i'm wrong then i apologise, but as i say it certainly looks to myself that you are attempting to goad Shaun :rolleyes:

Why don't you just let it be, he'll get his amp fixed & it'll all be forgotten about sooner rather than later if you just leave things alone :)

[technobear]

Ok, ok, I concede defeat.

And about bloody time. Finally you grow some balls.

Dealers are notoriously bad at answering emails so for warranty issues you should always pick up the phone.

Even if you did decide to email and got no reply, the next action would still be pick up the bloody phone - not start a thread on a forum to slag off the manufacturer who isn't even aware that you have a problem.

If this were my forum this thread would be deleted and your membership would be suspended for a time. In future put your thinking cap on.

I make no apology for the tone of this post. I am disgusted. :steam:

[matodono1]

Matt, can i ask a question please? What is your reasoning in going over the very same points time & again :scratch:

From where i'm sitting it looks like you are attempting to provoke some kind of reaction, if i'm wrong then i apologise, but as i say it certainly looks to myself that you are attempting to goad Shaun :rolleyes:

Why don't you just let it be, he'll get his amp fixed & it'll all be forgotten about sooner rather than later if you just leave things alone :)


Mark, it may look like it but this is not the first time that Shaun has done something like this. The last time involved an attack on a London based dealer just based upon the fact that the dealer in question wouldn't take Credit Card payments. Unprovoked and unfair that time and this.

My views pretty much exactly align with that of Technobear who posted following your post. If you look you will see that within Shaun's reply to me:

I'd call a broken one pound fifty switch on a seven hundred pound amplifier justification way beyond the norm.

Still shows that he still thinks that he is justified in his public course of action."just because the switch broke".

Nowhere in anything he has said has he really acknowledged that his public attack may have been unjustified or unfair. What I and Technobear suggested is what most people in his situation would do. This forum is not the place to hash out warranty claims.

If he had really conceded this, I would be the first to accept it and back off.

Regards, Matt.

[Reid Malenfant]

Ok, i don't know about any past experiences...

Shaun may well be regretting the thread & frankly i am for getting involved, all it's doing is fanning the flames & thus getting more attention so i'll leave it there ;)

Cheers for the reply anyway :)

3020

[John]

I think Shaun has now conceded and everyone else has stood up for Glen here.
People like Glen are the heartblood of the British HIFI industry and long may AOS champion them

[Marco]

Yes, John, indeed he is. If there were more Glenn Crofts around, the industry would be in a far better state than it is.

Let's give it a rest now guys. I've been following this thread closely, allowing both Shaun and Matt to express their views freely, but it's in danger of developing into something rather more sinister.

The most important thing is that Shaun's problem is sorted and Glenn's (and Dave's) reputation remains intact.

I'm sure that Shaun's amp will now continue to provide him with sterling service for many years to come :)

Marco.

[matodono1]

Yes, John, indeed he is. If there were more Glenn Crofts around, the industry would be in a far better state than it is.

Let's give it a rest now guys. I've been following this thread closely, allowing both Shaun and Matt to express their views freely, but it's in danger of developing into something rather more sinister.

The most important thing is that Shaun's problem is sorted and Glenn's (and Dave's) reputation remains intact.

I'm sure that Shaun's amp will now continue to provide him with sterling service for many years to come :)

Marco.

Hi Marco,

Absolutely no danger of anything sinister from my quarter. Just as the last time I won't accept faceless cyber attacks on people with proven track records and solid industry reputations. Personal friends.

I have made a valid point that this or any other forum is NOT the place to fastrack warranty claims or make dealer complaints which properly belong on other direct and proper channels of communication. If a dealer fails to act or a manfacturer acts grossly then maybe this is the place to come but only then.

And Marco, you have been to my home we have spoken many times on the phone and I like you immenseley but I really wish you would be stricter in moderating issues like this where someone is using your forum to behave in an unreasonable manner.

Please Marco for the sake of the good guys.

Matt.

[Marco]

Matt, I like you immensely too, but no offence, please don't tell me how to moderate people.

Give me a bell sometime, mate - I always enjoy our chats :cool:

Ok folks, on that note this thread has run its course :)

Marco.