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Ive run out of fluid for my record cleaning machine and i need some quick.
Ive been reading that some people think alcohol can damage the vinyl and the stuff i had reeks of the stuff.
Anyone have any recomendations?
I’m no expert but I wouldn’t put alcohol on vinyl.
I used to use a very weak solution of washing up liquid with a very soft toothbrush and rinse extremely well. But that wasn’t in a record cleaning machine.
michaelhigh
08-11-2010, 01:43
I’m no expert but I wouldn’t put alcohol on vinyl.
I used to use a very weak solution of washing up liquid with a very soft toothbrush and rinse extremely well. But that wasn’t in a record cleaning machine.
Two tablespoons of Palmolive liquid (the green stuff) in a spritzer bottle followed by hand-washing and drying with a very soft, diaper-type cotton cloth. Works a treat (as y'all say) for me...
Concerto Audio
08-11-2010, 16:29
Try www.srm-tech.co.uk
They sell some kind of liquid for cleaning records to use on Moth record cleaning machine.
magiccarpetride
08-11-2010, 17:52
Two tablespoons of Palmolive liquid (the green stuff) in a spritzer bottle followed by hand-washing and drying with a very soft, diaper-type cotton cloth. Works a treat (as y'all say) for me...
"Freedom is the right to discipline yourself" -- I like that. Where did you get that saying?
Alcohol in solution with distilled water 1 part alcohol to two parts water (from memory) is what the old Keith Monks cleaning machine used. Phone Moth Marketing up and ask what they'd suggest. There's little that Mike Harris doesn't know about such things - he's been around even longer than I have :eek:
Moth seem to use alcohol but Monk cleaning fluid is alcohol free.
Is there no agreed consensus on how to treat your vinyl?
I bought a Roksan brush £50, really does clean records but adds huge amount of static. Useless, and thats from a turntable manufacturer. Drives me crazy.
Ammonite Audio
08-11-2010, 20:37
I now use L'Art Du Son Vinyl Record Cleaning Fluid, which is a detergent concentrate, to be mixed with distilled water.
http://www.analogueseduction.net/pub/files/Recordcleaning/.thumbnails/1247239769_53_1_b_w390_h390.jpg
A small bottle of concentrate looks expensive ( see http://www.analogueseduction.net/product/L%27Art_Du_Son_Vinyl_Record_Cleaning_Fluid_L-ART ) bit it does go a long way, and used with my Clearaudio Smart Matrix machine, I think it results in a better sounding and obviously clean LP, compared with the Clearaudio alcohol based solution. Apparently L'Art du Son is produced by a woman in Germany - women in the world of audio are rare indeed and tend to know what they are doing, so this is a safe bet.
I have to agree with your logic Hugo. When i was married my house was a lot cleaner.
Im going to try it out. Im guessing using distilled water for a rinse is a good idea too?
You could always dilute some snake-oil instead :D
Ammonite Audio
09-11-2010, 07:59
You could always dilute some snake-oil instead :D
What an odd statement:scratch: If you refer to the L'Art du Son cleaning solution, I'm puzzled why anyone should consider that something costing pence few per application could be considered 'snake-oil'. Maybe you should try it.
Lol.... I know what Dave's getting at.
I'm sure that 'L'Art du Son' works very well, but the thing is you don't need any fancy 'audiophile' cleaning fluids to make a superb job of cleaning your records. What they charge for a very small bottle is utterly ridiculous...
All you need to do is buy a 5L container of de-ionised water from your local car accessories store - see here for an example:
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_16 5335_langId_-1_categoryId_165629
Cost: £3.79.
...and a 1L can of Isopropyl Alcohol from Farnell (or Maplins):
http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/49692-ipa-1l-cleaning-solvent-200005000-1litre-servisol.html
Cost: £10.63.
...and mix up a solution (approx 90% de-ionised water to 9% Isopropyl Alcohol, although experiment with what quantities are best for you) inside an empty 1L plastic bottle (empty bottles of de-ionised water are ideal for this).
Finally, go to the supermarket and buy one of the huge big bottles of cheap washing up liquid (the 'no brand' stuff without any added fragrance - cost: less than a Pound), and pop a few spots into the solution and gently mix it in. And that's your final 1% which makes up the record cleaning solution.
Then transfer a workable amount of the final solution into a small plastic bottle for ease of pouring onto records during the cleaning process.
And for around £15 you've got sufficient fluids to make enough bottles of record cleaning solution to clean many hundreds of records, which goodness knows how many bottles of 'L'Art du Son' it would take to equal!
That's what I use with my VPI RCM, and the results are fantastic :cool:
Marco.
Ammonite Audio
09-11-2010, 09:27
And for around £15 you've got sufficient fluids to make enough bottles of record cleaning solution to clean many hundreds of records, which goodness knows how many bottles of 'L'Art du Son' it would take to equal!
A small bottle actually makes 5 litres of cleaning fluid, which goes an awfully long way (my bottle is still only half-used after more than 3 years, kept fresh in the cool and dark of the fridge); and according to my ears results in a quieter and better sounding record after cleaning, compared with the alcohol based Clearaudio stuff that I bought with the cleaning machine. I am content that the German lady who produces the L'Art du Son product has done her homework to ensure that the detergents used do no damage to records. I am also content with her claims that a water/detergent product can be much better than most others that use alcohol.
If anyone wants to make allegations about snake-oil, there are much better sitting targets in the world of audio than this stuff which, incidentally in my experience, does the same job as Russ Andrews' Reveel when used to clean CDs. Reveel works, too and is well worth its modest cost.
I'm a tad crabbit today.
If anyone wants to make allegations about snake-oil, there are much better sitting targets in the world of audio than this stuff which, incidentally in my experience, does the same job as Russ Andrews' Reveel when used to clean CDs. Reveel works, too and is well worth its modest cost.
Indeed, Hugo. Like I said, I've no doubt that L'Art du Son does what says on the tin, as it were, but in my experience (as I've used it) there are equally good, more cost effective, solutions available.
Think of how many litres of cleaning solution one could make up from my above formula by simply buying, say, a 10L container of de-ionised water instead, for about £1 more, and multiples thereof, and cost that against having to buy more bottles of L'Art du Son ;)
How much is it anyway these days?
If anyone is worried about the amount of alcohol, simply use less. That's the beauty of being in control of your own formula!
I've been using this for years and it hasn't damaged any of my records, including my £45 a pop Mo-Fi Original Masters.....
I'm a tad crabbit today.
S'ok, it's allowed :eyebrows: ;)
Marco.
How much is it anyway these days?
Ok, I've just looked:
http://www.analogueseduction.net/product/L'Art_Du_Son_Vinyl_Record_Cleaning_Fluid_L-ART
Nearly £30! :stalks:
I wonder what the profit margin is per bottle?
Marco.
Flyfisher
09-11-2010, 11:24
When I finished the cleaning fluild that came with my Moth record cleaning machine, I did some research on PFM, rather than lash out on some more branded fluid.
The recommendation was:
4 parts distilled water
1 part Isopropyl Alcohol
A dash (only) of car winscreen cleaner, too much and you have bubbles everywhere!!
I make up batches of 1 litre when needed and it works just as well as the original cleaning fluid BUT for a fraction on the cost.
Hi Roger,
That's a good basic formula. I suspect (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that there is little, if any, difference between the use of de-ionised or distilled water.
Again, I'd imagine that the same applies to car windscreen cleaner or washing up liquid. The amount of Isopropyl Alcohol used is of course up to the individual user. I like the results I get with the forumula I use.
Anyway, each to his or her own, but I'll always take the 'SPPV approach', when it's viable to do so, rather than pay through the nose for a product that is IMO clearly aimed at taking advantage of the audiophile market :)
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
09-11-2010, 12:55
That's a good basic formula. I suspect (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that there is little, if any, difference between the use of de-ionised or distilled water.
They are one & the same as far as i know ;)
I use stuff from this chap on Ebay - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINYL-RECORD-CLEANING-LIQUID-RECORD-CLEANER-500ml-/260689483020?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cb24dd50c#ht_6035wt_1084
It's a good price and to my ears used with my ClearAudio smartmatrix washer it seems to work just as well as the oem liquid supplied by ClearAudio and the after market L'art du son I have also tried.
I'm tempted to think that it's the volume of fluid you slosh on the disc followed by the wiping and vacuum that does the business rather than what's necessarily in it - always accepting a bit of detergent is probably a good thing for lifting muck and rubbish and C2H5OH is probably not kind to vinyl
Steve
They are one & the same as far as i know ;)
That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure!
Marco.
P.S That's a handy link, Steve - nice one :)
I use stuff from this chap on Ebay - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINYL-RECORD-CLEANING-LIQUID-RECORD-CLEANER-500ml-/260689483020?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cb24dd50c#ht_6035wt_1084
It's a good price and to my ears used with my ClearAudio smartmatrix washer it seems to work just as well as the oem liquid supplied by ClearAudio and the after market L'art du son I have also tried.
Steve
If there is no noticeable improvement over L'art du son,I would go back and use L'art du son,as it works out about a quarter of the price.
L'art du son with 5L of water = £32.74
The one you linked to 5L = £130.00
:eek:
Cripes! - dilution was never my strong point in chemistry :doh:
Steve
Shit, that's true - I hadn't done the sums! :doh:
Btw, mate, what is that camera lens cleaning stuff (or whatever it is) you use again, just to 'finish off' your own formula?
Marco.
P.S Some result for the 'Tic on Saturday, eh? :eyebrows:
Shit, that's true - I hadn't done the sums! :doh:
Makes it seem a bit of a bargain now.
;)
Btw, mate, what is that camera lens cleaning stuff (or whatever it is) you use again, just to 'finish off' your own formula?
Marco.
It's not a lens cleaner,it's a wetting agent for drying film,called Ilford Ilfotol (http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=m570&_nkw=Ilford+Ilfotol).
I’m not sure about this alcohol and water combination.
Isn’t the whole point of Ethyl Alcohol is that in its unadulterated state it evaporates without leaving a residue :scratch:
When you mix it with water isn’t that property destroyed; can’t remember my chemistry :scratch:
I remember seeing somewhere the effect on vinyl of alcohol under a microscope and from what I recall it wasn’t a pretty sight.
Anyway, the vinyl guys have spoken so…………..
Alcohol and vinyl……………………………………….are we sure :eek:
Makes it seem a bit of a bargain now ;)
Indeed, mate... Roll up, roll up, get yer cheap as chips 'L'Art du Son' here - two for a Poun-NAH, alang wi yer sports socks....! :eyebrows:
It's not a lens cleaner,it's a wetting agent for drying film,called Ilford Ilfotol (http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=m570&_nkw=Ilford+Ilfotol).
Ah, thanks for the clarification - link now saved for future use :)
What would you say is the purpose of using this wetting agent - is it just to give a nice 'sheen' at the end of the cleaning process or to dilute the (arguably) 'harmful' effect of the Isopropyl Alcohol - or something else?
Your answer I suspect in some way will allay John's fears...
Marco.
What would you say is the purpose of using this wetting agent -
Marco.
I think it just helps spread the alcohol and water mix onto the vinyl.
Ammonite Audio
09-11-2010, 18:23
That's a good basic formula. I suspect (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that there is little, if any, difference between the use of de-ionised or distilled water.
That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure!
Marco.
P.S That's a handy link, Steve - nice one :)
I don't think you're correct here. Deionised water merely has a particular set of ions stripped out and replaced by others less harmful for car batteries etc. It's the same principle as a water softener, eg "ion exchange". So, deionised water will leave a residue of some sort, but distilled water should not. I'm happy to be corrected if anyone knows better. Fortunately, I have a huge supply of distilled water on hand for use with my Art du Son cleaning solution ;)
You could be right, mate... Fortunately, though, the solution is sucked out the grooves, along with any gunk, and records left bone dry (and spotlessly clean) by the VPI's vacuum suction long before any 'residue' forms! :eyebrows:
I'll use the money I save buying £30 bottles of L'Art du Son and spend it instead on wine :cheers:
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
09-11-2010, 18:48
I have a huge supply of distilled water on hand for use with my Art du Son cleaning solution ;)
I'm chucking Litres of it away every day :eyebrows: What do you think you gather from a dehumidifier ;)
I'm not sure de-ionised water is the same as you'd get from a reverse osmosis water filter, but like yourself i'd also be happily corrected :) Yes, virtually all chemical & metal ions (salts) should in theory be removed, though none should be added. Pretty sure there are none added for solutions intended for car batteries & the like thats for sure, but again someone put me right :eyebrows:
Ammonite Audio
09-11-2010, 18:53
I'm chucking Litres of it away every day :eyebrows: What do you think you gather from a dehumidifier ;)
I'm not sure de-ionised water is the same as you'd get from a reverse osmosis water filter, but like yourself i'd also be happily corrected :) Yes, virtually all chemical & metal ions (salts) should in theory be removed, though none should be added. Pretty sure there are none added for solutions intended for car batteries & the like thats for sure, but again someone put me right :eyebrows:
Reverse osmosis is a different process from ion exchange used in water softeners and does produce pure water (unless the membrane if fecked). But you have plenty of good stuff from your dehumidifier!
Reid Malenfant
09-11-2010, 18:55
Reverse osmosis is a different process from ion exchange used in water softeners and does produce pure water (unless the membrane if fecked). But you have plenty of good stuff from your dehumidifier!
Ah, cheers for clearing that up Hugo ;) I wish i had a use for all this water i'll be honest, it just goes down the drain :(
I don't think you're correct here. Deionised water merely has a particular set of ions stripped out and replaced by others less harmful for car batteries etc. It's the same principle as a water softener, eg "ion exchange". So, deionised water will leave a residue of some sort, but distilled water should not. I'm happy to be corrected if anyone knows better. Fortunately, I have a huge supply of distilled water on hand for use with my Art du Son cleaning solution ;)
??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deionized_water
Regards
oceanobsession
14-11-2010, 17:12
This has to be the bargain of the year for me i work on forktrucks electric and
diesel, so i ordered 25 litres of Deionised Water, then whilst at one of my
customers sites i told him his batteries were dirty and would need cleaning
with ◦ which i said i havent got any he said to me we use that how
much will you need i said two gallons he said no probs and went and got it for me, i then ordered some washer bottle fluid from my company and this is my mix
1 part sopropanol 4 parts Deionised Water and some washer bottle fluid its
better than the okki nokki fluid that i bought first.
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