Cartridge Comparison - With Needledrops [Archive]

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pure sound

04-11-2010, 21:45

How different are cartridges? I’ve been recording the output from various cartridges playing 4 different tracks of music. The cartridges cover a wide range of prices from a fairly rudimentary moving magnet design that was about £50 up to a cartridge costing in the region of £4000. Amongst these are well known ‘classic’ designs that people sometimes speak of with reverence (often rightly so). All were fitted to ADC LMG headshells and used in a Jelco 750L arm. The turntable is a Technics SP10 Mk2 in a substantial slate plinth. Where necessary the cartridges were loaded by the best & most appropriate step up transformers I had to hand. Output levels from the phono stage were matched as well as possible on the Tascam CD Recorder’s meters.

I will be adding 3 or 4 more cartridge’s recordings next week but there’s plenty here to download & have a listen to. I’d perhaps suggest that you don’t try to compare all of them on one track at once. It will become confusing. It may be better to take 2 or 3 together & work out a preference if there is one before moving on to another group. Then compare the group ‘winners’ maybe? I’ll leave the strategy to you.

The cartridges (including the ones next week) are

Denon 103 (MC)
AKG P4 (MM)
Technics EPS310MC
Shure M3D (MM)
Koetsu Black (newly refurbished) (MC)
Goldring 1042 (MM)
Audio Note (UK) Io Gold (MC)
Ortofon SPU-GT (MC)
Ortofon SL15 (MC)
Linn Troika (MC)
Ortofon Kontrapunkt B (MC) possibly

A few ‘characterful’ ones amongst those you would’ve thought.

Anyway hopefully some amusement to while away the time. It also leaves me the option of adding further cartridges as & when the opportunity presents itself.

The music

You can’t please everyone but the 4 excerpts loosely cover classical, Jazz, electronic and rock/blues so something for most people.

They are…

The beautiful Sull’aria from Mozart’s Marriage of Figaro (well known to fans of the Shawshank redemption) Listen for how easily the two singers can be told apart, where they are and of course the quality of their singing.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/43e3vf9h82y9566/Mozart%20A.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/vx2klzhek4baqbx/Mozart%20B.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/21p2g50ac590328/Mozart%20C.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/67mkr865girr1k1/Mozart%20D.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/pbem2lz06ahzv4m/Mozart%20E.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/3nbifkiigvxq5kq/Mozart%20F.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/wvnxpi15jxw96jq/Mozart%20G.wav

Eartha Kitt singing All I Want from the album, Bad but Beautiful

http://www.mediafire.com/file/rb4a1v379je2q54/Eartha%20Kitt%20A.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/g9uyb5heyhrbmg9/Eartha%20Kitt%20B.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/9s50oi6w92tw977/Eartha%20Kitt%20C.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/xr1343ukdhbqdqj/Eartha%20Kitt%20D.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/p29fc3s885rpg2n/Eartha%20Kitt%20E.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/j3ewv8rvbxdzkvd/Eartha%20Kitt%20F.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/nylqykl2ikrk1ru/Eartha%20Kitt%20G.wav

Dimension from the DragonFly Timestream LP (ambient electronica)

http://www.mediafire.com/file/7l22t1fopsm4y2m/DragonFly%20A.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ta5c0lc10bgf7n9/DragonFly%20B.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/z7m684pf25ts7lu/DragonFly%20C.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/gdrugk05o2in6pk/DragonFly%20D.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/17kboi22voyzkzj/DragonFly%20E.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/kbxm8mqnck1uypv/DragonFly%20F.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/zm844ats450b3ey/DragonFly%20G.wav

And Honey Bee from SRV’s Couldn’t Stand the Weather album (mistakenly labelled here as Queen Bee)

http://www.mediafire.com/file/p9hov03fszwg093/SRV%20Queen%20Bee%20A.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ys8j98sbsae837e/SRV%20Queen%20Bee%20B.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/jnas7694ij1d4hq/SRV%20Queen%20Bee%20C.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/8s08buu2aul8zxa/SRV%20Queen%20Bee%20D.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/pj7qvvz94p1rztj/SRV%20Queen%20Bee%20E.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/h6hvam1bentn2pa/SRV%20Queen%20Bee%20F.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/7htly9chnoutbpm/SRV%20Queen%20Bee%20G.wav

Remember, this isn’t about the absolute quality of the needledrops. It’s about listening to what each cartridge makes of what it’s asked to play on what I’d hope is a fairly neutral platform.

I don't want to put up a Poll. Not yet anyhow. I think they can be influenced by what appears to be popular or unpopular. Just comment if there are any that are good or that stink or that are just Meh!

EDIT: Just playing back a couple here, on some tracks the level does vary slightly from one cartridge to another so adjust it (with your volume control!) if necessary.

Marco

04-11-2010, 22:15

Hi Guy,

I've just clicked on the first two SRV tracks and got a message saying "invalid or deleted file" :scratch:

{Edit: and the Eartha Kitt ones now, with the same message} Defo something up, matey!

Marco.

pure sound

04-11-2010, 22:25

EDIT 2: I think they work now. The links wouldn't cut &paste properly from PFM. They had to be as shown on Mediafire itself. Sorted now I hope!

Marco

04-11-2010, 22:27

Nothing much I can see is working, mate......

Marco.

Marco

04-11-2010, 22:43

Tried it from pfm and the links seem to work there fine - most bizarre!! :scratch:

I've asked Nick to see if he knows what the problem is.

Marco.

pure sound

04-11-2010, 22:51

they work for me from here now.

Marco

04-11-2010, 22:56

What was up, then?

Marco.

chris@panteg

04-11-2010, 22:56

Nice selection of music Guy ' love the Mozart duet , will take my time and listen to them all.

Hi Marco ' what browser do you use per chance

Marco

04-11-2010, 22:58

Things are fine now, Chris, but I use AOL and Internet Explorer.

Just downloading the SRV tracks now, which I know really well....

Marco.

Marco

04-11-2010, 23:10

One thing I'd say that's immediately apparent to my ears is that SRV's 'Honey Bee' (B) and (E), but particularly (B), sound rather forward and 'tinny', so I suspect they're the MM cartridges, perhaps (B) is the AKG and (E) the Goldring?

(C) sounds rather more 'civilsed'....

It's so hard to tell though on poxy laptop speakers, and that's all I've got unfortunately!

Marco.

Stratmangler

04-11-2010, 23:15

Marco

04-11-2010, 23:17

I suppose I could, but I'll need to get some CDRs :)

Marco.

pure sound

04-11-2010, 23:22

When they are all up, Burn them to a CD or two. CDR's are as cheap as chips now in somewhere like Lidl.

Stratmangler

04-11-2010, 23:23

I suppose I could, but I'll need to get some CDRs :)

Marco.

Last lot I bought were £8.00 for 50 in Tesco.
They were either Sony or TDK.

Marco

04-11-2010, 23:24

When they are all up, Burn them to a CD or two. CDR's are as cheap as chips now in somewhere like Lidl.

Any thoughts on my comments so far? :)

Marco.

Stratmangler

04-11-2010, 23:44

For me the SRV track F just comes up with the Quicktime Logo.
Any idea why ?

Marco

05-11-2010, 00:18

The first Eartha Kitt sounds wonderful - I'm betting that's either the Io or the SPU :)

Marco.

pure sound

05-11-2010, 06:46

Cartridge 'A' added this morning. Others to follow early next week.

Marco

05-11-2010, 09:27

Lol - you're keeping shtum, aren't you! Hehehe...

Marco.

gthang

05-11-2010, 09:48

I wonder if I pick out the Gold having only heard it once before. The sound has stuck in my head ever since...

chris@panteg

05-11-2010, 10:06

A good friend of mine has an IO gold sat in his draw:eek: he's too terrified to try and mount it in his V ' i would offer to do it myself but i'm terrified too:doh:

He's got to take it to a dealer , :doh:i keep telling him

pure sound

05-11-2010, 10:18

I wonder if I pick out the Gold having only heard it once before. The sound has stuck in my head ever since...

I wouldn't describe this recording process as perfect & that was on a different deck & arm. (Voyd/Alphason) At least here the process is fairly constant even if the differences are diminished a bit.

Do try to make the comparisons using more than one track. For example cartridge B might be marginally louder than cartridge E on the Mozart but slightly quieter on the Earth Kitt. You ideally want to form an impression of each cartridge's sound over the range of recordings.

gthang

05-11-2010, 12:31

I've downloaded them all (off work - home alone today), predictably I started with the ambient electronic, and have already formed an opinion on my least / most favs. I'll keep thoughts to myself until I've worked through them all, which will take some time. In fact I'm going to stay away from this thread so I'm not influenced.

I tried to record my TT yesterday using the phone stage output in to my laptop - did not work well. I need a USB sound card of some sort to do this properly as I'm to idle to move my beast of desktop computer down stairs.

Marco

05-11-2010, 12:35

(off work - home alone today)

Oo-er...keep the door shut, Graham, and look out for the Boogey Man!

Marco.

pure sound

08-11-2010, 23:21

Two heavyweights enter the fray. Cartridges H & J now available to download.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/9a70ud6lre7dnaq/Mozart%20H.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/eendnde86a6zq6k/Mozart%20J.wav

http://www.mediafire.com/file/ga37p5n1m3i4a8s/Eartha%20Kitt%20H.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/0x5l0n2tp6m2d6d/Eartha%20Kitt%20J.wav

http://www.mediafire.com/file/1yrpqrxda3fpdqv/DragonFly%20H.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/v17oha2sdat9nvb/DragonFly%20J.wav

http://www.mediafire.com/file/lwb1247xw5p9iuu/SRV%20Queen%20Bee%20H.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/1jq3r4wbfwdzt3b/SRV%20Queen%20Bee%20J.wav

I'll post what they all are on thursday.

Marco

09-11-2010, 07:58

Mmmm.... "Heavyweights" in what way, I wonder - cost or high-mass? :hmm:

I'll have a wee listen-ette and see wot I fink.... :eyebrows:

Marco.

chris@panteg

09-11-2010, 10:20

i seem to prefer D at the moment , its got more air and space around vocals ' better presence.

Eartha Kit track is great ' H is very vibrant sounding mmm

pure sound

09-11-2010, 10:58

H appears to have been at quite a high level for the Eartha Kitt track. Be sure you adjust your volume control accordingly.

chris@panteg

09-11-2010, 11:20

Hi Guy

Yes it did need tweeking down a touch:)

pure sound

11-11-2010, 23:03

Stratmangler

12-11-2010, 00:00

I started to listen to the carts on just the SRV track. I haven't followed everything all the way through, but I did rank D & E better than the others, preferring D out of the pair.

Are H & J still available ?

chris@panteg

12-11-2010, 09:05

I'm pleased that D turned out to be the IO gold:)

Its an all time fav cartridge of mine , but out of reach alas:(

Marco

12-11-2010, 09:35

Here they are.

A = Shure M3D
B = Ortofon SPU
C = AKG P4
D = Io Gold
E = Goldring 1042
F = Technics EPS310MC
G = Ortofon SL15
H = Ortofon Cadenza Bronze
J = Koetsu Black (just refurbished by Goldring)

No Troika this time. The sample was too shagged. No Denon 103 yet either.

The Koetsu still sounds like a Koetsu if a little more polished than a standard Black. This one has had new silver coils, cantilever suspension & tip. Most people seem to have spotted the cheapy AKG which actually serves well enough for non critical (ie out of the room) listening.

Nice one, Guy - very interesting!

From my earlier remarks, it confirms my love of the M3D, and similarly my hatred of the 1042! ;)

However, with (B) being the SPU, that's somewhat surprising, (as I didn't like it on the SRV track) but then I only listened to a few tracks overall through my laptop's built-in speakers, so hardly definitive in any way.

Marco.

chris@panteg

12-11-2010, 10:05

The M3D did sound good and i liked the 310mc also '

Although i've never owned many ortofon's in my time , i was quite taken by the Cadenza Bronze ' still too much for me at £1400 ish

drrd

12-11-2010, 17:07

Really enjoyed listening to these files :) I used to own a Shure v15vxmr and that also had a big enjoyable sound, very musical MM cartridge. The Io sounds excellent and I really liked the overall sound of the Koetsu (but not sure about the sound stage :) )

Had a rare day off work today and nothing to do so I've recorded and uploaded a few files. I've only got one cartridge now (a Benz LPS) and unfortunately don't have any of these posted tracks on vinyl. Thought it would be interesting though just to record a track off vinyl at 44.1 and 96 and compare it with the cd issue. I don't wish to get clobbered for copyright infringement so I won't mention names but it's a well known german electronic 4-piece and a track from a 1978 album, both CD and vinyl are 2009 remastered versions.

24-96 vinyl:
http://www.mediafire.com/?4tjbma5hnr474bk

24-44.1 vinyl:
http://www.mediafire.com/?2ytft6fsxoi7273

16-44.1 cd:
http://www.mediafire.com/?0k2cpzf4fdqcy2l

I probably should have reduced the bit-depth on the 44.1 recording to make it equivalent to the cd track but it's easily done with software if you want to. The only processing I've done is top and tail and then normalise, nothing else.
Even with the vinyl normalised the cd track is about 3db RMS louder so you'll need to adjust the volume.

Comparing the two 44.1 tracks is quite interesting. The cd track sounds like it has more going on in the high frequencies but is also a bit 'fizzy', the vinyl superficially seems a little more dull but the extension is there just not so hyped. Moving to 96k gives more high frequency information but rather more naturally than the cd. I was left wondering if the cd as well as being quite loud was also jazzed up a bit in the treble. I could use less load on the cartridge but I find going that way things get a bit sloppy (which does sound a bit like more treble sometimes).

(13.11.10 vinyl files re-done and re-uploaded after I realised I'd left a not so good DIY cable hooked up)

drrd

18-11-2010, 19:20

Had a tinker with my AC arrangements and then listened again. I think I had it over-damped after all so here they are again with different loading (again just top and tail and normalise, no eq):

44.1 24 bit vinyl:
http://www.mediafire.com/?df63gdcc01c4qjm

96 24 bit vinyl:
http://www.mediafire.com/?1ptw41bi34dgb1i

gthang

18-11-2010, 21:10

Here they are.

A = Shure M3D
B = Ortofon SPU
C = AKG P4
D = Io Gold
E = Goldring 1042
F = Technics EPS310MC
G = Ortofon SL15
H = Ortofon Cadenza Bronze
J = Koetsu Black (just refurbished by Goldring)

Very interesting; I did not listen to H&J.

However,

A, B I really liked, B I noted as very easy to listen to. A i noted as having a bass bloom
C seemed to emphasize surface noise but did imo sound very open.
E was my least favourite, was bright and tizzy. (I did not liked the 1042 I owned for a while) now i know, it does sound like a 1042.
F was not great
D did not really feature, though I did note down transparent. surprised by the fact it's the gold. did not sound special to me.
G was easy to listen to, well separated and detailed and smooth, not so dynamic.

A and B were my faves. SPU here I come :)

drrd

21-11-2010, 11:50

One more :) Same track but this is with the AD converter sync'd to an external clock:

Vinyl 44.1 24 bit ext ck
http://www.mediafire.com/?v08guc9695o6e7v