PDA

View Full Version : SME type headshell washer?



JazzBones
03-11-2010, 17:00
Hi all who know and have gone before, I need to know this: The detachable headshell on Jelco 750Ds and similar have a washer/gasket that mates with the tone arm proper. Now it has been suggested that the removal of this washer is a bonus point in the pursuit of better sound? I've tried it, albeit on the stock 1210 arm, and really don't know if there is an improvement or an imagined one, its easy to kid ourselves over small tweaks such as this? Is there an improvement or is it a sort of not a necessary circumcision/removal of sorts?:eek: Does this apply to the SPU I've seen on MartinT's Tekko? Sorry being a prick over this:scratch: ?

Jazz

PS remember when buffs use to glue the detachable stylus to the main body of a MM cartridge? Ideas come and go?

Marco
03-11-2010, 17:04
Hi Ron,

I don't bother using the rubber washer, and consider that by doing so it gives a *very slight* sonic improvement.

TBH, there are far more important things to worry about, so decide what you think is best, leave it that way, and just enjoy the music! :)

Marco.

DSJR
03-11-2010, 17:08
Ron, just go with your feelings, as I've had conflicting results and, more often, non results.

I use a thin one with the Decca/Nagaoka/R200 and removing it makes damn-all difference. It could be argued that my system and abused ears aren't up to it any more, I don't know..

Linn argued with the flimsy LVV tonearm that the washer and flexible headshell broke up resonances, whereas part of the sale spiel from Grahams when they sold oodles of ADC shells was to remove the washer. On the R200, Rega felt that their headshell, supplied as-is with washer, was the best way to go, but of course "we" always think we know better.....

Don't lose sleep over it - it's not really important..

By the way Ron, I don't believe you've told us-me (I'm a nosey beggar) what amps and speakers you're using these days?????


P.S. MARCO - Ron was one of the first people to "discover" the joys of shielded mains cables and his better half made up some excellent IEC ones for his then Naim system. I thought they helped remove some of the "edge" that even 135's could sometimes have... :)

Alex_UK
03-11-2010, 17:10
FWIW, I don't use them either on any of my detachable headshells/arms - (mainly because I always lose the little buggers!) - but Dave DSJR definitely suggested it was better not to bother (on the SME 3009 at least) when he was round, and I've tried with or without and can't really notice any difference on any combination, to be honest (a bit like you Ron you don't know whether you think you can or not...) - so on the less is more theory, I leave them off.

DSJR
03-11-2010, 17:13
SME never provided one, so that was the basis for my recommendation in that respect :)

My Garrards don't need washers, as the M7 headshells mate up to the tube/socket perfectly :D

Alex_UK
03-11-2010, 17:15
Damn, and I thought I'd lost it! :lol:

JazzBones
03-11-2010, 18:47
By the way Ron, I don't believe you've told us-me (I'm a nosey beggar) what amps and speakers you're using these days?????


P.S. MARCO - Ron was one of the first people to "discover" the joys of shielded mains cables and his better half made up some excellent IEC ones for his then Naim system. I thought they helped remove some of the "edge" that even 135's could sometimes have... :)

Dave, believe it I'm still using my original Naims with big RA oak cone feet on the amps plus Torlyte platforms. Gave up the glass supports. My SBLS stand on Mana platforms and are augmented with Townshend Maxim tweeters on setting 1 just ticking over a La JMH (in black instead of chrome), the speaker drive units are earthed (and easy thing to do). Sources are a completely rebuilt LP12, with Sole subchassis, only original bits on it are the Cirkus bearing and inner platter plus my finger prints, you taught me well mate. The tone arm is an Ekos 1 completely worked over by J7 of Audio Origami with decoupled gold plated counter balance, Kondo silver wiring, tube damped etc. will be trying this arm on my Tekko! What do you reckon on that??? cartridges are a Stilton OC9, ATOC9II and a Koetsu black in need of an overdue rebuild by Expert Stylus. CD is Naim CDX2/XPU2, Tuner is Naim NAT/NAPST (old) Ron Smith ariel and tape is the a Nak7E. My cubbyhole of a home office is the Tekko1210 (was going to get a Rega) Creek intergrated amp, CAS3140 tuner, Arcam 170 Trichord clock 3, Cambridge Audio DacMagic plus outboard soundcard. Linn Kan 1s suspended from the ceiling (re-inforced) by short lengths bungy wire, bloody marvellous. The thing that wakes me up in the morning is a Sony radio/cd thingy. I'm toying with the idea of a Croft preamp (valve) or similar, the men in black at Naim hate me, I can hear their jackboot a comin'!:stalks:

Cheers and phew:)
Ron

DSJR
03-11-2010, 20:44
I remember a lot of that stuff ;)

I'm going back to my childhood with old singles' playing (must be current state of mind) and much of the current main system dates from 1974... A far cry from the big ATC's, but there you are. I had a CR7, but like two Revoxes and a few other Naks I owned, they now belong to a certain ex-train driver in his museum... :eyebrows:

hifi_dave
03-11-2010, 22:04
Not to mention the 401...:doh:

JazzBones
03-11-2010, 22:37
I remember a lot of that stuff ;)

I'm going back to my childhood with old singles' playing (must be current state of mind) and much of the current main system dates from 1974... A far cry from the big ATC's, but there you are. I had a CR7, but like two Revoxes and a few other Naks I owned, they now belong to a certain ex-train driver in his museum... :eyebrows:

Those ATCs of yours were, as the American say,' Awesome'! I started liking older gear a long time ago which coincided with me growing old... but will start a new thread about old gear elsewhere also lowering the box count! I well remember the man on the Brighton run, is he into DD or idler drives?

Cheers
Ron

DSJR
04-11-2010, 09:21
Last I remember he was into plastic dust sheets :eyebrows: and keeping his gear as absolutely pristene as possible. We haven't spoken for a couple of years and I haven't seen him for several. Marriage and fatherhood for me changed everything as HiFi took a back seat for many years and old friends kind of drifted away. My fault, but why do I have to phone them all the time, when they could quite easily phone me instead????? Thank heavens for "here" and HiFi dave, with whom I can have a bloody good moan about the state of the industry, as well as the occasional listen to some darned good audio gear :)

pure sound
05-11-2010, 12:05
Dave, I mistakenly bought one of those Garrard type shells & have no use for it. If you want it pm me an address.

helma
29-09-2015, 03:37
Resurrection! :D

I recall trying with/without washer with some arms in the past and didn't really notice a difference so I've left the washer on. However, I've recently had a bit of love/hate relationship with a Denon DA-305 arm, for those not familiar with it it's an old broadcast type of arm from the early 70s (or maybe it was Denon's home version of their broadcast arm, but anyway) and it has a peculiar design in that it has some kind of rubbery damping material over the arm tube at the bearings, so there's a layer of damping there.

The problem I've had with it it has sounded overly damped, good with some records that are mastered a bit thinly, but with most stuff it has had a tendency to sound veiled in the midrange and a bit tubby in the bass - bass drum & snare loosing some of their impact and generally sounding overly laid back and lacking all important midrange clarity. I've been pondering on trying a different headshell, since I'm currently using a cheap very light aluminum one because of weight considerations (though the same shell in a different arm sounds just fine), until last night it occurred to me to try without the little rubber washer on the headshell... I wasn't expecting much because like I said never heard a big difference in the past, but whoah, it's like a different arm, gigantic difference. I'm not sure yet if it was all for the better, but the midrange definitely cleared up big time. Haven't yet listened to it much without the washer, but the couple discs I had time to spin sounded very much different and mostly better.

So if you happen to have one of those Denon arms with the damping layer between the arm and bearings and think it sounds overly soft, removing the washer might just transform the arm. Googled up the subject of the washer and this thread came up, that's why I'm posting here :)

EDIT: well what do you know, I played around this more today because I couldn't quite grasp why it would make such a big difference in this arm and not in others and found out that with the washer installed the locking collar on the arm has a tendency to not make as tight contact with the shell I'm using that it should. It's not like the headshell wouldn't seat fully before, just that the collar wasn't pulling it as strongly as it should, leaving the contact somewhat loosely coupled I suppose. I would've never noticed this unless I was fooling around with the washer. It's still slightly better sounding without the washer, but the difference is not night and day anymore.