View Full Version : It's now time to ditch your Sound Hi-Fi/Herbie's mats...
...and fit the new best sounding option for the SL-1200/1210!
Gentlemen, I give you the Funk Firm Achromat ('1200')....
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/5066/mediap.jpg (http://img219.imageshack.us/i/mediap.jpg/)
Over a year ago when I was testing various mats for my SL-1210, I tried an Achromat, and whilst it was good, ditched it in favour of the Herbie's/Sound Hi-Fi mat, which at the time seemed to make more sense of the music being played.
*However*, that was before Arthur K (someone whom I've always respected as a knowledgeable audio designer) made a new version of the Achromat which fits the lip on the platter properly of the SL-1200/1210....
It all came about because Arthur wanted me to listen to his new FXR tonearm, which he's sent me to evaluate (and which I will review on AoS in due course), so in conversation he told me about the new Achromat for the SL-1200/1210, and I asked him to send me a black version along with the FXR.
When using the 'special edition' Achromat, designed for the SL-1210, one immediately notices how snugly it fits the contour of the platter - it 'hugs' the edges very securely, creating a platform which optimally supports the full surface area of the record, ensuring that both record and mat correctly and securely interface with the platter.
To my mind it does this a little more effectively than the Sound Hi-Fi/Herbie's mat. What the Achromat achieves, too, is to dampen the platter more and remove the slight element of ringing that exists with the Sound Hi-Fi mat before a record is placed on the (stock) platter, and this together with the Achromat's classier appearance (its slightly shiny black surface really complimenting the glossy speckled finish of the 1210MK5G) inspires more confidence, thus giving overall greater user satisfaction.
However, all that pales into insignificnce when the Achromat is fitted and the needle hits the groove of your chosen record, in this instance Frank Sinatra's live set in Paris from 1962, an Original Master Recording from Mobile Fidelity.
The album starts with some gentle clapping from the audience and an introduction in French from Charles Aznavour, which then builds into a crescendo of clapping, as the musical accompaniment from the orchestra swells before Sinatra breaks into his first song 'Goody Goody'....
With the Achromat in place, the initial clapping has an acute vibrancy and a real sense of skin hitting skin, and Aznavour's voice is palpable and 'real' with a sonorous tone to his vocal delivery that combines to capture a sense of the venue, making one feel part of a genuine live performance - and when the band kicks in, and the sound swells with a venemous grumble, one can almost 'feel' the sense of the occasion before Sinatra's gentle honeyed tones envelop the room and set the stage for a memorable performance.
Switching to the Sound Hi-Fi/Herbie's mat, one is immediately aware of the initial clapping taking on a muted, 'thuddy' quality, as if the audience were suddenly wearing gloves, and Aznavour's voice that previously had sounded so palpable and 'real', was now somewhat reedy and metallic-like, almost as if a new microphone with a different tonal presentation had been substituted.
The band had also lost its joie de vivre, no doubt in small part due to the 'thickening effect' the Sound Hi-Fi/Herbie's mat imbued in the presentation of the recording, and so voices and instruments were stripped of their natural colour and vibrancy, all in all making for a poor facsimile of this live recording, and thus losing the realism and sense of occasion that the Achromat had previously so deftly reproduced.
Let me make this absolutely clear: the sonic presentation of these two mats is poles apart, and I was shocked and stunned at just how marked the difference in musical presentation was with my T/T when either mat was used, not to mention at the realisation that with the Sound Hi-Fi/Herbie's mat, I had been for the last year and a half listening to my records half-cocked!
One of course must allow for the fact that results will likely vary from system to system (or turntable to turntable), but I'm confident that the majority of people will achieve a significant sonic upgrade by changing to the Achromat, unless in certain instances the presentation of a turntable (and system) has been 'tuned' to accommodate the more muted sonic signature of the Sound Hi-Fi/Herbie's mat; in which case, don't blame the Achromat for simply telling the truth!
There is obviously something in the design of the Achromat which allows recordings on vinyl to 'breathe' and really come alive, which the Sound Hi-Fi/Herbie's mat stifles in comparison. Don't get me wrong, the latter is a still a good mat, but quite frankly the 'Achromat 1200'. specially designed for the SL1200/1210, makes it sound rather broken.
I can't wait to hear what the Achromat sounds like in conjunction with the copper mat, when I get one!! :eek:
For a technical explanation of the design of the Achromat, I would refer you to the Funk Firm website: http://www.thefunkfirm.co.uk/achro.htm
All I will end by saying is if you really want to hear what's on your favourite records, then one of these babies is an absolute must. Quite simply, you will not spend a better £72 on your Techie - so buy with confidence! :cool:
Marco.
Very interesting. Now what about an Achroplat for the Techie.
Lol - now *that* is a very interesting idea!
Marco.
pure sound
02-11-2010, 15:26
I can't remember Marco. Do you use a clamp or not?
Hi Guy,
Yes, a Bruil one similar to this, which does a superb job:
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3802/bruil.jpg (http://img5.imageshack.us/i/bruil.jpg/)
Can't wait to hear what the Achromat sounds like in conjunction with the copper mat!
I suspect that's going to be quite a formidable combination to judge against the customised platter of Mike New's ;)
Marco.
Marco, have you metamorphosised into Jimmy Hughes? :D
Look, the herbies mat is available in the US in different thicknesses and sizes for "normal" turntables as well as the techie. Primarily, the herbies can lighten the tone a little and restoring some neutrality to a big-n-beefy presentation, something many far eastern solid-plinth decks can have, including the current Techie's ancestors. Placed on top of the stuck-on Dual 701 mat, I found it made the sound slightly cleaner, but with the Thorens 125, it killed the sound, making everything too lean and "wimpish" to my tired old ears. As we discussed earlier, mats do have characteristics and really ought to be matched to the particular turntable in an ideal world.
I too have admired and respected Arthur's thinking over the years, although the execution of old PT products and the frailty of the Tarantella was off-putting to a dealer who preferred a quiet life ;)
I'm sure the Achromat is an excellent piece of kit. Too expensive for me to try right now and I don't believe I have a dealer friend currently who could get me one (;)). Having a "mat" with a similar characteristic to vinyl seems to make sense and I wish you well in your rediscovery of your LP collection. In fact, I suspect the Techie sized version may even be good for other decks too, as the raised/thicker edge of many LP's may be better accommodated.
Hahaha... Yes, Jimmy is my hero - I've got a bottle of holy water next to the incoming mains supply for my hi-fi and have turned the Lockwoods back to front for a more 'natural' sound! :eyebrows:
Having a "mat" with a similar characteristic to vinyl seems to make sense and I wish you well in your rediscovery of your LP collection. In fact, I suspect the Techie sized version may even be good for other decks too, as the raised/thicker edge of many LP's may be better accommodated.
Indeed - I think that's where the main sonic benefits are achieved.
It's crazy to think I could've done this ages ago... You think you've got a really good sound going on, and then discover a big upgrade like this for the cost of a half-decent meal for two in a restaurant! :doh: :)
In reference to the latter from your post above, I also agree, and indeed this is what Arthur has said.
I'm now off to rediscover my record collection and top up the holy water! ;)
Marco.
P.S I've been informed by Arthur that the 'Achromat 1200', as it is officially known, is in fact £72.
Ammonite Audio
02-11-2010, 17:54
Marco's observations on the Herbie's mat coincide precisely with my own. I tried it, found that it resulted in an unacceptably overdamped feeling to the sound in comparison to my favoured SRM acrylic mat; and then I sold it to DSJR. I do have an Achromat that I bought for the KD-750 but I've not had much time to try it out, but I certainly shall give it a go on the Thorens TD124.
and then I sold it to DSJR.
...who then sold it to me as part of the SL-150 deal... and now I feel all inadequate! ;) Actually, I have an acrylic mat I use on my Planar 3 (whilst still waiting for an original LP12 ribbed rubber jobbie to come up on ebay...) so I may give that a go on the Techie...
Anyone want to buy a 4th hand Herbies mat? No, probably not! ;)
Beechwoods
02-11-2010, 18:05
Let's see how many members that poor old mat can be passed round! Maybe it could be a forum mascot?!
In my humble (ahem) opinion, the multi-ribbed Thorens mat that is usually on the 124 (and my 125) is quite good and far better than the mk2 Thorens mat. I should like to try the 160 Super heavy mat once it finally gets here, as this suited the Thorens decks better I understand from memory.
Hi Alex,
...who then sold it to me as part of the SL-150 deal... and now I feel all inadequate! ;)
Lol.... The Sound Hi-Fi/Herbies mat is still a very good mat (jeez, I've been using one for long enough, so it hasn't become crap overnight!)
It's just that the Achromat 1200 is an exceptionally good one, and takes the sonic performance of the Techie to another level.
Fortunately (or unfortunately) things evolve all the time in this thorny hobby of ours, and so one is on a constant learning curve! :)
Marco.
things evolve all the time in this thorny hobby of ours, and one so is on a constant learning curve! :)
Ain't that the truth - (sometimes, of course) and thank heavens they do!
Damn right, Alex - it's all about having an open mind and trusting your ears!
As an aside, I see that Dave C is now selling Achromats (along with his stock mat, copper mat and Oyaide), despite having slagged off the Achromat in the past as being unsuitable for his 'holistic approach' to modifying the SL-1200.
How can you possibly have a 'holistic approach' with four different mats - all with varying sonic signatures?? :doh: :eyebrows:
Anyway, I digress.........!
Marco.
It just goes to show there are no absolutes. The Funk mat on my 301 and Salvation are trounced by a simple acrylic mat which in turn is bettered by a mat with a lot of upturned nipples!
These things are very specific to particular TTs/platters. Nipples are good though - at least that's true for the female variety.
Hi Clive,
It just goes to show there are no absolutes.
That is my No1 hi-fi philosophy :)
And of course, if there are no absolutes, then in turn there is no 'one true path' to anything in hi-fi - including how to modify a Techie! ;)
Marco.
I’m not a big fan of faffing about with turntable mats, you could spend a lifetime swapping them,
either find one that looks fit for the job (most probably the one that comes with the TT) and stick with it
or buy a turntable that doesn’t require one.
At some point with turntables you have to move on from the “lets try this mat, lets try that mat phase”
chris@panteg
03-11-2010, 09:01
I’m not a big fan of faffing about with turntable mats, you could spend a lifetime swapping them,
either find one that looks fit for the job (most probably the one that comes with the TT) and stick with it
or buy a turntable that doesn’t require one.
At some point with turntables you have to move on from the “lets try this mat, lets try that mat phase”
Hi Mark
Interesting point ' if you find yourself constantly changing mats and generally fiddling with your TT ! perhaps its time to change the TT , is that what your getting at ?
The Achromat does have a slightly different tonal balance to the Herbie's , but i wouldn't have thought it very dramatic , but fancy trying one again as the 309 has such a different sound to the bright and zingy stock arm.
Hi Mark,
I’m not a big fan of faffing about with turntable mats, you could spend a lifetime swapping them,
either find one that looks fit for the job (most probably the one that comes with the TT) and stick with it
or buy a turntable that doesn’t require one.
At some point with turntables you have to move on from the “lets try this mat, lets try that mat phase”
Yep, I totally agree - hence why the Sound Hi-fi mat had been happily doing its job on my T/T for nearly two years. The Achromat thing was totally unplanned and happened as a result of Arthur contacting me to audition his new tonearm.
However I'm glad he did contact me, as from an SPPV point of view, I've now had one of the best upgrades for my T/T ever...
One design factor is crucial for me, and this is that the Achromat shares very similar impedance characteristics with a vinyl record, which for me makes it the ideal interface between the record and the platter, and thus somewhat of a ubiquitous choice in that particular application.
The Achromat could thus be seen as a something with which to partner with your usual mat of choice, simply because of its unique 'vinyl mimicking' characteristics.
Therefore the Achromat will definitely be staying put as my reference 'record interface mat', regardless if I later choose to use it in conjunction with a copper mat, for arguably the ultimate mat combination with the stock Technics platter :)
Marco.
Hi Chris,
The Achromat does have a slightly different tonal balance to the Herbie's , but i wouldn't have thought it very dramatic , but fancy trying one again as the 309 has such a different sound to the bright and zingy stock arm.
Like I said, as with anything else, the results will likely vary from system to system.
On my T/T in my system, the difference between the Achromat and Herbie's was significant and easily discernable. Given your T/T set-up now, I think you'd love what the Achromat does :)
Marco.
chris@panteg
03-11-2010, 10:13
Hi Maco
Can you buy it direct from arthur ? looked around and best price is £75
Hi Chris,
I think so. Best thing to do is pop him an email at info@thefunkfirm.co.uk
:)
Marco.
Fascinating, Marco. I'm going to have to get my hands on one to try out as I've no idea whether my findings with the Mike New platter would be the same as yours. Now to plot how to borrow one...
I have had a lot of respect for the Herbies mat and bought a larger one direct from the USA since the MN platter has no lip. It certainly trounced the Techie and SDS Isoplatmats.
One thing I do know is that Herbies mats sell on at quite a good price on eBay so I could do the swap for about half price if the Achromat proves successful.
Hi Martin,
If you're not in too much of a hurry (since you're getting a pretty good sound as it is with the Herbie's), you could wait until I come down with my Achromat, and MN platter (which I should have fairly soon), and we can do some proper comparisons both with the platters and the mats, and then you can decide what way to go (and me too in terms of the platter) :cool:
As an aside, I'm going to try the Achromat with the Herbie's underneath and see what happens ;)
Marco.
Marco, what does the Achromat bring to the party that the Herbies does not?
Hi Andy,
If you read my opening post in this thread, all is revealed there :)
Marco.
In summary: I believe that the Achromat more faithfully reproduces what's on the record (giving a clearer, more realistic sound), as a result of it being the closest impedance match to vinyl itself (this is fundamentally important), than any other mat I know of on the market, and as such for me it is a no-brainer purchase - especially as there's now a special one that fits the Techie! :)
Marco.
Thanks, Marco. Hopefully I'll have my Paul Hynes PSU by then so we can take that out of the equation.
No worries, Martin. If not, I'll have mine. I should also have a copper mat by then, so we can revisit that one, too.
I want to be very thorough about this, as I suspect there a lot of people relying on our judgement! :cool:
Marco.
Hi Maco
Can you buy it direct from arthur ? looked around and best price is £75
I don't know whether Arthur has many dealers in the UK, but if he sold you a mat at "trade," wouldn't it be short-circuiting his dealer network? Hifi dave and I have seen enough of this in the past and it's killing the smaller dealer off if the client can obtain direct at a discount.
Having said the above, I do know of certain online manufacturers of audio gear who seem to sell at what could be full retail price, thereby making their profit and the dealer's too, had there been any dealers in the first place, thus having their cake and eating it - twice - lucky beggars :(
Hi Dave,
If Arthur sells any Achromats direct then it will most certainly be at full retail price, as he has a small dealer network to consider. He's too professional to do anything else :)
Marco.
........ The Achromat thing was totally unplanned and happened as a result of Arthur contacting me to audition his new tonearm......
Marco.
Just been reading Dave Price's review of the FXR 11 Tonearm in HiFi world.
What REALLY interested me, although Dave didn't expand on it, was that he had heard the arm on his Techy, as well as a Funk Saffire. Now, that is an interesting comparison (sorry for thread drift).
Steve
Indeed... He also compared the FXR to an SME V, and apparently it pissed all over that, which doesn't surprise me ;)
The SME V is probably the most overrated arm on the planet! But some folk will insist on jerking off over owning 'desirable badges'... :wanker:
I'm looking forward to listening to the FXR - it's design philosophy is right up my street, as I love 'race-tuned' products with no undeserved pretentions, so I'm expecting it to be another 'giant-killer', high on SPPV! :)
Marco.
Indeed... He also compared the FXR to an SME V, and apparently it pissed all over that, which doesn't surprise me ;)
The SME V is probably the most overrated arm on the planet! But some folk will insist on jerking off over owning 'desirable badges'... :wanker:
I'm looking forward to listening to the FXR - it's design philosophy is right up my street, as I love 'race-tuned' products with no undeserved pretentions, so I'm expecting it to be another 'giant-killer', high on SPPV! :)
Marco.
Ahh... but what you going to do if the Saphire, sorry Saffire, pisses all over the Techy?:eek:
Ahh... but what you going to do if the Saphire, sorry Saffire, pisses all over the Techy?
Hahaha... Well, if it's better, it's better, and as always I would acknowledge that :)
I do rate Arthur's designs very highly.
However, it would have to go some to beat the sound Martin T and I had going on at his place with his Techie/Dynavector and Mike New's platter and the Paul Hynes SR5-21, which was just mind blowing! :eek:
Marco.
Its interesting isn't it?
The Saffire is a belt driven 'direct drive'... vs the DD Techy.
The Technics seems to have evolved in substantial leaps of late. Then you may well add the FXR into the mix. and how might that stack up against the Jelco?
What does it all add up to in costs? Think the Saffire deck is at £3k now.? I might be wrong. How much are all those Techy mods plus a deck?
Who says vinyl is dead? And all for the price of a Keel and a pie and a pint. !!:eyebrows:
Hi Steve,
Indeed it is interesting... The market has never been flooded with as many genuinely top-notch T/Ts, EVER - not even in the so-called heyday of vinyl (people have never had it so good), so what does that tell you?
The Saffire I would rate as a superb T/T, although subject to hearing one properly I would *suspect* that my Techie (as is) with all the mods done to it, particularly with the Mike New bearing and Paul Hynes SR5 PSU, which really do catapult the Techie into something very special, would still trump it, and at roughly the same price.
Quite honestly, when I get the Mike New platter (my version of it), I'd put the Techie up against pretty much any T/T in the world at any price - a bold statement, yes, but one I'd be confident of defending or demonstrating if need be :)
I'm sure though Arthur will be reading this and having a giggle! ;)
Marco.
P.S Keel? Pah - only for mugs with more money than sense!!
Yeah... but will it glow in the dark?
Yeah, if you set it on fire! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Marco - isn't the FXR based on a Rega? Interesting, as I thought you disliked Regas :rolleyes:
Marco - isn't the FXR based on a Rega? Interesting, as I thought you disliked Regas :rolleyes:
It appears yes, Martin: You can either buy one complete or have your own RB250/300 upgraded. The mods do appear to move it way up the league though compared to a standar one, according to this Hifi Choice review http://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/hi-fi-accessories/funk-fxr-tonearm-703707/review
Hi Martin,
Marco - isn't the FXR based on a Rega? Interesting, as I thought you disliked Regas :rolleyes:
Yes it is, but it looks bugger all much like a Rega, and has a totally different arm tube and headshell (and also much higher quality wiring) - I suspect it'll sound nothing like one, too! ;)
Marco.
prestonchipfryer
04-11-2010, 08:51
Indeed... He also compared the FXR to an SME V, and apparently it pissed all over that, which doesn't surprise me ;)
The SME V is probably the most overrated arm on the planet! But some folk will insist on jerking off over owning 'desirable badges'... :wanker:
I'm looking forward to listening to the FXR - it's design philosophy is right up my street, as I love 'race-tuned' products with no undeserved pretentions, so I'm expecting it to be another 'giant-killer', high on SPPV! :)
Marco.
Overrated eh, the SME V is better than any Rega, Rega-based, Rega modified, etc. imo
John :ner:
Hehehe... Each to their own, Johnny boy! :eyebrows:
Didn't know you used a 'Shmee'.
Marco.
The FXR is really a TUBE of some material with a cross brace internally as in "+" Like many out there, a Rega bearing block is the donor (I'm told Rega are getting a bit peed off with third parties taking their excellent tonearms and bodging the life out of them, but obviously can't do anything about used tonearms), as is the Techie bearing block - now THAT is a very interesting proposition.
The one thing that could be labelled a "weakness" in the SME and Rega tonearms is the solid, "one piece," type of construction, where everything has to be tightened up and closely coupled for optimum performance. Done wrongly, this utter neutrality can make for a straight-laced quality of sound, although the RB300 used to sing when mounted on NAS decks with their adjustable collet mounting. Interesting that adding severe resonances and downgrading the finish supposedly makes for a "better" product (I'm thinking of another Rega bodger here). Now the genius behind SME has passed on, I wonder whether the Series V will be their final statement???
Arthur does seem to have the talent for lateral thinking and the FXR promises to be the first affordable development in tonearms since the RB series of tonearms came along nearly thirty years ago now (yes, it's THAT long ago). I wish him well with it.
As for "vastly superior" wiring, I don't think Hitachi (who make the internal wires) would be very pleased, as the internal (and external) wires of standard RB arms suffers from one thing only - they don't look posh enough. The copper used is very good and when stripped back, is nice and bright and shiny and easy to work with. Rega offer the Klotz alternative in the 600 series upwards and they certainly look the part...
That'll be why then, Dave, any Rega arm I've heard or owned is significantly transformed for the better with a rewire... Just ask Johnny from Audio Origami what he thinks on the subject (who's probably upgraded, via Cardas rewiring, amongst other things, more Rega arms than you've had hot dinners)! ;)
Marco.
I think we have to define "significant" and "expectation bias" here Marco. I've been there, remember.
The thing is, Rega could quite easily have used the Cardas Incognito style of tonearm loom in their more profitable and "better" products. I'm sure it wouldn't cost them much more when we're talking of tonearms costing three or four times that of an RB300 series, itself a supremely profitable product for them. I didn't find the company that dogmatic in refusal to try new things..
For me at any rate, setting up an RB300 on a Spacedeck was a revelation, the sound appearing to "free off" in a way that this arm on a Linn or Planar 3 never really achieved. An RB300 on a LPT and an SME V on a Pink Triangle Anniversary was sort of similar as well. Once heard, never forgotten and I can assure you this transformation is an order of magnitude above re-wiring. Different experiences and different feelings of "significant" I suppose :)
Hey Marco. Could you ask Aurthur to make a special perspex Funk plinth for the Techy! I would pay good money for one of those crazy designs:lol:
I think we have to define "significant" and "expectation bias" here Marco. I've been there, remember.
And I haven't?
When I had a P5 a few years back (before I got into Techies) I sent the RB700 arm to J7 to have it Cardas-rewired and stripped and polished, a la RB1000, and when it came back it was a totally different beast, visually and sonically, and it had f*ck all to do with "expectation bias", I can tell you....!! ;)
For me at any rate, setting up an RB300 on a Spacedeck was a revelation, the sound appearing to "free off" in a way that this arm on a Linn or Planar 3 never really achieved. An RB300 on a LPT and an SME V on a Pink Triangle Anniversary was sort of similar as well. Once heard, never forgotten and I can assure you this transformation is an order of magnitude above re-wiring. Different experiences and different feelings of "significant" I suppose :)
Indeed, but it's a case of dotting ALL the I's and crossing ALL the T's, and realising that in order to achieve the best sound EVERYTHING makes a difference, and thus it all must be taken into consideration, not just simply targeting the procedures that pacify our belief sets......... :eyebrows: ;)
Unquestionably, in my experience, rewiring Rega tonearms with high-quality cable transforms their performance - and significantly for the better, too!
Marco.
Then why does a company who created such a great range of products not do it? Surely it's not because of their blinkered minds?
I've no idea, mate (I can't read other people's minds) - all I know is it makes a bloody big difference to how their arms sound! :)
Marco.
prestonchipfryer
04-11-2010, 15:25
Is that 'different' 'better'! or just ''different''. Another thing the cartridge mounting arrangement on a stock Rega is far from ideal and the tags break all too easily. The new Funk arm I see has at least tried to address this. The last Rega arm I owned was an RB700 but I just could not get on with it.
John :eyebrows:
Hi John,
Is that 'different' 'better'! or just ''different''.
It's 'different' in terms of 'oh, bloody hell, I never realised there was a bass guitar on that track before', and 'different' in terms of 'oh, bloody hell, there's a real drum kit there, rather than a Fisher Price one' - and 'different' in terms of you'd need to be bloody deaf not to hear the freakin' difference, type difference, if you see what I mean!! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Is that 'different' 'better'! or just ''different''. Another thing the cartridge mounting arrangement on a stock Rega is far from ideal and the tags break all too easily. The new Funk arm I see has at least tried to address this. The last Rega arm I owned was an RB700 but I just could not get on with it.
John :eyebrows:
Cartridge mounting on a stock Rega arm is fine if the nuts are on top and you use the small Allen key provided. The tags don't break if you use them properly ;) I've set up loads, mostly in front of the clients who'd just bought them.
I'll have to email the Rega Rep to get his views, to see if the party line on re-wiring has changed. I'll admit, a good few years ago, the only person properly trained *by Rega* to dismantle and service Rega tonearms was Mike Harris from Moth Marketing. He alone at the time had the tooling and jigs to be able to properly dismantle and re-build RB series tonearms outside of Rega themselves. This may have changed now though..
prestonchipfryer
04-11-2010, 16:27
Cartridge mounting on a stock Rega arm is fine if the nuts are on top and you use the small Allen key provided. The tags don't break if you use them properly ;) I've set up loads, mostly in front of the clients who'd just bought them.
Yes probably me being hamfisted and short-sighted maybe. :lolsign:
Spoke to Arthur yesterday evening and placed my order - my mat arrived today - pretty impressive :)
I won't event attempt to make Jimmy Hughes type comments just to say on first hearing I echo everything Marco said in his review. This is way better than the Herbies Way Excellent I was using.
I also listened to the Achromat with my Origin Live flexible upgrade mat on top and it made things worse - dulled the bass and transients so definitely better just on it's own in my system.
Thanks for the tip Marco and thanks to Arthur for such a stunning service.
Steve
You're very welcome, Stephen.
This is for me what makes it all worthwhile - when I recommend something I think is good, someone else tries it and uses their own own ears to judge, and it results in their increased listening pleasure. Wonderful!
It's NOT like some deluded and cynical people elsewhere think, and all this is simply 'egotistical Marco' shouting from the rooftops about how wonderful his system is (or the components it consists of)!! :rolleyes:
What's an audio forum for if you can't be passionate about what you believe in, and thus try and give others the benefits of your experience??
Anyway, I digress.... Stephen, I'm glad you like the Achromat - it's a great bit of kit, designed by someone who knows exactly what he's doing :cool:
Who's next to try one, then? :)
Marco.
Marco - I should receive my PH SR5-21 power supply soon. I'm going to let that settle in first, but I must admit I'm intrigued and may order an Achromat just for the punt. One question: since I don't have a lip I guess I can order the standard one, or are there any other differences?
Hi Martin,
Nope there are no other differences, so just order the standard one. It's a no-brainer, mate - honestly! :)
So the SR5's coming soon? Hehehe...be prepared to rediscover your record collection :eyebrows:
Marco.
I used to have the Archomat , not the one designed for the techy but the standard one.
I miss it because i experienced a lot less surface noise compared with the Herbie mat.
Funny you mention that, Colin - I've noticed this, too :)
You can always swap back sometime, though.... ;)
Marco.
prestonchipfryer
05-11-2010, 08:01
a
chris@panteg
05-11-2010, 08:59
I'm going to try one :) made up my mind probably end of next week though:(
Still recovering (financially) from a recent holiday in North Wales , (Cottaging and sheep banging) :rolleyes:.
But its got to be worth trying , i like the theory behind the design ! metal platter's store energy and where does this energy go ? back into the bearing and record ? back into the arm and cart ? i don't know .
The Funk mat dissipate's energy as heat ,very quickly ' its the same principle as the Lexan platter.
Hi John,
Are you buying these direst from Arthur? I would like to try one.
Looks like Steve got his Achromat direct from Arthur, so that seems like the easiest way to go :)
You can email him at info@thefunkfirm.co.uk
Chris, nice one mate - you won't regret it! :cool:
Marco.
Beobloke
05-11-2010, 10:10
Ah yes, the good old Achromat. I've been a fan for years and I think Arthur has really got a winner on his hands there.
As mentioned, it does indeed transform the Techie and I also swap one on and off my 301 according to my mood and the music playing - it definitely opens up the midrange but on some recordings can make the midrange a little "shouty", so sometimes I just stick to the Garrard mat.
Best of all, I also have an early blue one from when it was available in a range of colours. Sounds great but looks even better on my blue LAD GAJ828 turntable with a blue Vestax headshell!
That looks *very* cool, Adam... I'm sure Hamish here would approve! ;)
Marco.
JazzBones
05-11-2010, 12:57
Ah yes, the good old Achromat. I've been a fan for years and I think Arthur has really got a winner on his hands there.
As mentioned, it does indeed transform the Techie and I also swap one on and off my 301 according to my mood and the music playing - it definitely opens up the midrange but on some recordings can make the midrange a little "shouty", so sometimes I just stick to the Garrard mat.
Best of all, I also have an early blue one from when it was available in a range of colours. Sounds great but looks even better on my blue LAD GAJ828 turntable with a blue Vestax headshell!
I bought a white one from Arthur at a hi fi show some years ago and used it on my Linn Lp12, liked it and it did look good. I also used it, from time to time, on the Tekko plus copper mat but at the mo I'm trying out the Herbie's which was flavour of the forums a twinkle or so ago. I have a 'library' of mats from felt, neoprene cork from Audio Innovation (good on Linn), SDS, John Rogers cork and fabric, and home made jobbies, enough already.... I never chuck anything out because it will find favour again sometime in the future, will it not?:). The best upgrade, in my opiniated opinion :eyebrows: is a few downed coldies, or a bottle of good wine and after awhile even the sound of the door chimes or bell sounds bloody fantasico with hardly any interference from the mains.
Ron, aka Jazz :lol:
Rare Bird
05-11-2010, 13:28
Well i hope Arthur don't mind me saying but he sent me a pre production original Achromat to try a couple years ago, i was using it with Thorens 'TD150' at the time, i was very impressed, i still have it somewhere..Every oportunity i get the praise Art i will, cos he deserves it. I'm sure this mat will also be good.
Hello to you all.
First of all, a big “thank you” to Marco for his review. First and foremost, it is well written making it a great read - and the content didn’t go down too badly either.
Certainly lots of points have been whizzing around. One in particular, that of supply, needs comment.
Funk’s position here is simple.
Achromat was launched 2005. I find it incredible that after five years people still are highly sceptical and till recently this resulted in a serious lack of interest from dealers to stock / recommend or even try the product. Well, five years on it appears this situation is changing. Funk has been busy appointing an increasing number of dealers and outlets for its product and they are listed on Funk’s website. Anyone in the UK interested in purchasing Achromat (or other product) is encouraged to purchase from them.
Don’t get me wrong, healthy cynicism is a good thing but better still to be practically informed rather than cynical from afar. After all, in my defence, I have been at this game more years than I care to remember.
My passion remains undiminished in my goal to get, well “…ever closer”, a strap line originates from my embryonic beginnings at school, where my maths master was none other than John Shuttleworth - Meridian records and BC1 review fame. (That now dates me to the late sixties)
He taught me what good, no, great recordings were.
With access to master tapes aplenty, its not that surprising that along the way he was pretty dismissive of the sound quality available from groove grinders of the day.
But that set in me a fascination: “Why didn’t the records he was producing sound like the master tape they came from?”
The obvious conclusion was the whole very complicated process turning tape into 12” plastic was inherently flawed and fidelity could never be maintained. (Ill-informed cynicism)
The emergence of direct-to-disc mastering meant the question re-surfaced and with renewed anger. With no tape in the way, it promised better fidelity than the master tape. The tape - turntable comparison was indeed valid.
The discovery that tape still won out meant some thing (MANY things) were wrong…but what?
Cynicism gave way to a holistic, scientific approach to the problem. The rest is my history in this industry and for as long as my ears hold out I’ll continue to maintain my standards to myself, irrespective of what others might think.
After 30 years of turning this problem over and over and over and over…I’d like to think that I’ve finally earned my stripes.
With respect, woe betide those who then choose to leap before they look! ;)
I think you get where I’m coming from for after all, at the end of the day, aren’t we all supposed to genuinely be interested in the same thing?
It’s just that some of us are blessed with more play time than others and what is it people say? The more you play, the more you learn. :)
Spectral Morn
07-11-2010, 08:08
Welcome to AOS Arthur :)
Regards D S D L
Hi Arthur,
Glad to see you've finally jumped in and said 'hello'! :)
First of all, a big “thank you” to Marco for his review. First and foremost, it is well written making it a great read - and the content didn’t go down too badly either.
You're very welcome, mate. Good products deserve to be recommended, and the sonic benefits of the Achromat for me are a no-brainer.
Anyway, welcome to our community of audio nuts. I hope you find your time here productive and fun :cool:
Marco.
Arthur, PLEASE don't go away.........
I don't think he's got any intentions of going away, Dave :)
Marco.
For those who like next day delivery and paypal ordering, Analogue Seduction now do the Technics Archomat.
Most of you will have dealt with them before on e bay perhaps but if you havent i recommend them for good customer service. The guy even helped me with a Technics hinge kit i had to fit to my hingless mk3.
Welcome Arthur and you can forget my e-mail. I will respect your wishes and purchase from Analogue Seduction. Your presence here is most appreciated.
Now ordered. Marco - I'll report on sound quality as soon as I've received it. Mmm, PH SR5-21 and Achromat arriving, goodies galore :)
Rare Bird
07-11-2010, 13:24
Hi Arthur ;)
Hi Arthur, and welcome to AoS. We haven't met, but your reputation does precede you (in a good way of course!) and I'd echo the sentiments of others that it is great to have you join the forum and hope you will join in a few discussions. Enjoy the forum.
For those who like next day delivery and paypal ordering, Analogue Seduction now do the Technics Archomat.
Most of you will have dealt with them before on e bay perhaps but if you havent i recommend them for good customer service. The guy even helped me with a Technics hinge kit i had to fit to my hingless mk3.
Just to echo Colin's endorsement, Analogue Seduction have always been great when I've ordered from them, and always quick and knowledgeable when I've asked questions so order your Achromat (or whatever else, from their extensive range) with confidence.
I've received my Achromat from Analogue Seduction - excellent service as noted elsewhere. Stand by for preliminary feedback tonight :)
Looking forward to it, Martin!
Just one small tip: the Achromat works best when 'bonded' as closely to the platter as possible, so for best results use some double-sided tape underneath it and press the mat down firmly, smoothing it down onto the platter.
You'll still be able to get the mat off when you need to; it'll just require a bit more effort :)
Don't forget also to readjust VTA (and therefore VTF), as there is a difference in thickness between the Achromat and Sound Hi-Fi mat.
Marco.
I played some music last night, switching between the Herbies and Achromat mats. This is where the easy VTA adjustment of the Dynavector arm comes into its own. Arm height has to go up some 1.3mm to accommodate the 5mm Achromat compared with the 3.7mm Herbies. From my notes:
The needle drop into the groove is more of a fine click than a clunk. I immediately notice more depth to the soundstage, the first time I've heard the lightly applied reverb on Joan Armatrading's voice in Love and Affection. There is more air and discernible fine detail. The overall sound is spread wider and deeper but yet the focus on individual instruments is more apparent. I am hearing more lipping on voice, breathing and small cues that make the recording vivid and life-like.
The obvious studio setting of The Eagles' Hotel California and stark silence when the singing stops mid-song are clear.
Keith Richards creates a fine ensemble sound in Talk is Cheap and, again, tiny cues make it sound more realistic. The power of his guitar comes out and hits you at times.
Gordon Giltrap's Fear of the Dark can tend towards a raucous sound if not properly tamed, yet the transparency and dynamics are stunning. The Achromat reproduces this recording with huge presence but not harshness.
Steely Dan's Gaucho plays with even tighter drumming and every last detail presented leaving you wondering if there can be any more revelations on a recording that just gets better every time I improve my system.
No change to the frequency balance but something is going on in the bass. Not fuller, but more definition. The notes being played in Jeff Buckley's opener on Sketches for My Sweetheart the Drunk are so easy to hear. I am not finding a midrange accentuation as does Marco, possibly because I am already running Mike New's excellent platter.
Surface noise, already low in my system, is incrementally lower or perhaps just less noticeable.
Arthur has done a fine job. An excellent upgrade for the Technics and great value for money.
http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/Achromat.jpg
Looks great on the platter Martin too!
Excellent stuff, Martin - glad the Achromat is hitting the spot! :)
I agree with John... It's definitely more complimentary to your T/T, aesthetically, than the Sound Hi-Fi mat, further accentuating your T/T's rather sexy 'industrial chic'.
I am not finding a midrange accentuation as does Marco, possibly because I am already running Mike New's excellent platter.
I think you're right, as one of the things I noticed when we were doing the platter comparison at your place was how muddled and 'confused' my deck sounded with music compared to yours (I was really shocked at this), as one of the best things the MN platter does is remove the midrange coloration causing this effect, imbued on the signal by the highly resonant nature of the stock platter.
The Achromat makes the Sound Hi-Fi mat sound similarly musically 'confused' in the midrange, I believe by being the better impedance match with vinyl, and so consequently I'm hearing a percentage of the sonic benefits achieved by upgrading to the Mike New platter, which of course wouldn't be as readily apparent to you with having already fitted it.
It's all coming together nicely now, and when I obtain the customised version of the MN platter and bring it to yours for evaluation, I think that'll be the final icing on the cake for both of us (once you get your SR5-21), but of course I have to test the copper mat and Oyaide with the stock platter and Achromat first. I should be able to do this in the next couple of days.
As an aside, I know that I haven't got around yet to writing part 2 of the previous session we had, but I think it'd be a better idea to leave it and write a whole new report detailing our findings with the revised platter design and different mats, as ultimately this will now be more relevant to everyone concerned when deciding what way to go.
Do you agree? :cool:
Marco.
Sounds good to me, Marco. Bring on the next bake-off :)
Talk about making someone red in the face. Before you lot go too mad, and despite my being down with the lurgy that everyone I know seems to be suffering for weeks, a heartfelt thank you for your warm welcome to AoS.
Other than I might see some of you (and put faces-to-names-to-handles) this weekend at the Guildford show in Reading, snot a lot else I can add (sorry but couldn't resist).
To be perfectly honest, the way I am feeling don't be surprised if I don't stay the duration and my visits end up short lived.
Sod's law. nothing for 3 years and then a week before a show! I'm certainly not out to give it to anyone.
Don't even know what I'll be showing / demming.
On the cards are:
Saffire maybe with a 12" FXR II?
Ankhor Link with the Linn version of FXR II (and Keel with one fitted)
If anyone is going, any other thoughts?
Well back to my Ovaltine and day nurse.
Arthur
Well back to my Ovaltine and day nurse.
I could do with a day nurse ;)
Martin , is that the SR5 PSU to the left of the Deck?
If it is ,its not as huge as i thought it would be.
the first time I've heard the lightly applied reverb on Joan Armatrading's voice in Love and Affection. There is more air and discernible fine detail. The overall sound is spread wider and deeper but yet the focus on individual instruments is more apparent. I am hearing more lipping on voice, breathing and small cues that make the recording vivid and life-like.
Gordon Giltrap's Fear of the Dark can tend towards a raucous sound if not properly tamed, yet the transparency and dynamics are stunning. The Achromat reproduces this recording with huge presence but not harshness.
Steely Dan's Gaucho plays with even tighter drumming and every last detail presented leaving you wondering if there can be any more revelations on a recording that just gets better every time I improve my system.
Arthur has done a fine job. An excellent upgrade for the Technics and great value for money.
http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/Achromat.jpg
I was getting that slight reverb on Ms Armatrading back in 1977 (we thrashed this disc on dem and I know it rather too well) and I never found the Gordon Giltrap harsh in the slightest... Gaucho on vinyl NEEDS to be an original US pressing rather than the shite UK ones made from higher generation tapes..
Amazing how we have to go back in quality to get an "improvement..."
Double sided tape "improving" the bond betwixt mat and platter top? What about a smear of glycerine (as long as it doesn't damage anything), with which I'm supposed to put between the top of the Deccapod and the headshell. This really does make a good, semi permenant seal.
Colin - no, it's a standard Timestep PSU. My SR5-21 has not yet arrived. More improvement still to come :)
Dave - the reverb on JA has always been there to hear if you listen for it, but it's the difference for me between subliminal and obvious now.
Perhaps I should characterise the GG as bright rather than harsh.
My Gaucho is a UK pressing with 'WORTH WAITIN' FOR' inscribed in the lead-out groove and the sides are A2 and B1. It sounds superb, better than the SACD.
As for the Achromat, I saw that there is no air gap at all between mat and platter so have used no fixative. I'm happy to leave it that way.
As for the Achromat, I saw that there is no air gap at all between mat and platter so have used no fixative. I'm happy to leave it that way.[/QUOTE]
A bit of a vexed one this. (Aren't they all?)
It is not a question of air gap, more of increased inertia.
You will potentially get transient micro-slip which friction will obviously damp out quickly and so it appears nothing untoward has happened.
The trouble is that you are operating with only the inertia of the mat.
Bonding negates that effect and that's why it sounds better.
(At the same time, I can see why you'd be happy to leave well alone!;))
Arthur
Bonding negates that effect and that's why it sounds better.
Fair enough, I'll give it a go. What do you suggest to do the bonding?
Stratmangler
10-11-2010, 19:22
My Gaucho is a UK pressing with 'WORTH WAITIN' FOR' inscribed in the lead-out groove and the sides are A2 and B1.
So is mine - I just checked:)
Fair enough, I'll give it a go. What do you suggest to do the bonding?
When i had one i used double sided sticky tape. No problems.
Back in the 80's, Jimmy went wild with his record purchases of sophisti-rock like Steeley dan and Talking Heads. I can't be specific on the titles used, but he felt that US pressings (or UK pressings from US metalwork) were always better. this was also confirmed by "Bilbo," Denis Blackham, who used to cut these things, only from pre-eq'd US derived masters for the best sound. i seem to recal my UK cut of Aja was very inferior to the US and Mo-Fi ones, but I haven't played them in ages, so will have to get them out for a spin again..
As for ms Armourplating. That '76 recording has had some dire cuts as well as brilliant ones. I love my Nimbus recut, which sounds almost as good as the CD ;)
Back in the 80's, Jimmy went wild with his record purchases of sophisti-rock like Steeley dan and Talking Heads. I can't be specific on the titles used, but he felt that US pressings (or UK pressings from US metalwork) were always better. this was also confirmed by "Bilbo," Denis Blackham, who used to cut these things, only from pre-eq'd US derived masters for the best sound. i seem to recal my UK cut of Aja was very inferior to the US and Mo-Fi ones, but I haven't played them in ages, so will have to get them out for a spin again..
As for ms Armourplating. That '76 recording has had some dire cuts as well as brilliant ones. I love my Nimbus recut, which sounds almost as good as the CD ;)
Interesting. The guy who runs my local 2nd hand vinyl shop was playing me U.S first press Zeppelin albums next to UK ones. Both of us were amazed how better the U.S ones were.
As for ms Armourplating. That '76 recording has had some dire cuts as well as brilliant ones. I love my Nimbus recut, which sounds almost as good as the CD ;)
Yes, mine's the Nimbus cut and it sounds better than the CD to my ears. I wish I could go back in time and order every Nimbus special cut they made :(
How can vinyl sound "better" than CD?
No, don't go there :ner:
Well, if you had a decent turntable (of the calibre of your CDP) to enable you to do back-to-back comparisons against both everyday with a variety of recordings, like Martin and I can, you'd know the answer to that question!!
:ner: ;)
Marco.
Yeah, the CD sounds closer to the source recording. The vinyl ADDS "NICE" COLOURATION which can charm the ears - FACT!!! If you don't believe me, fair do's. At least you have speakers with some bass welly Marco. So many domestic horrors have boom instead :(
Maybe you need to upgrade your DAC, Marco :lolsign:
Yeah, the CD sounds closer to the source recording. The vinyl ADDS "NICE" COLOURATION which can charm the ears - FACT!!!
No, it's far from being a "fact", Dave in all instances. If you continue insisting in spouting this kind of absolutist nonsense at every available opportunity, you and I are liable to fall out, bigtime...
Marco.
chris@panteg
11-11-2010, 09:49
Yeah, the CD sounds closer to the source recording. The vinyl ADDS "NICE" COLOURATION which can charm the ears - FACT!!! If you don't believe me, fair do's. At least you have speakers with some bass welly Marco. So many domestic horrors have boom instead :(
Maybe you need to upgrade your DAC, Marco :lolsign:
Dave
At the risk of sounding naive ' blinckered or plain stupid (i'm willing to take the risk) records don't add the colouration:)
Its the turntables that play them and some more than other's , some decks like the NAS range for example ! sound as neutral as one could want , the Techie is also neutral to me adding little bloom than i can tell.
on the other hand certain classic decks , make records sound yummy and warm ! though these days its been toned down and perhaps too much the other way , but that's my view anyway.
Rare Bird
11-11-2010, 10:26
How can vinyl sound "better" than CD?
Agree :)
Lol, don't you start! ;)
Marco.
Rare Bird
11-11-2010, 11:07
:D
chris@panteg
13-11-2010, 10:17
Well i have the 1200 Achromat ' as of yesterday:)
I just had to try it , so far i've been fiddling with VTA on the 309 , going to try a lot of familiar album's ! especially the most recent stuff i've been playing of late , so here's a list .
The Cure ' Disintegration and The Head on the Door
Art Blakey/John Coltrane
Jimi Hendrix ' Valleys of Neptune
Patricia Barber ' Companion
King Crimson ' ITCOTKC
Beethoven ' 7th symphony karajan
Ravel ' Love for Three Oranges
Yes ' Relayer
Van Der Graff Genrerator ' Still Life
Oh and god knows why i still keep playing this but
Ben Sidran ' Bop City and To Hot to Touch:o
Well done, Chris - it'll be very interesting reading your thoughts :)
Don't forget to 'bond' it to the platter with double-sided tape or a lick of grease or something, as that makes quite a big difference!
I've got a copper mat now to try, so just need to wait for the Oyaide to arrive, and I'll be able to test those combos before I get the new platter :cool:
Marco.
Ben Sidran ' Bop City and To Hot to Touch:o
Aaaargh! Chris Frankland!
Hi Martin,
Did you try the bonding thing with your Achromat, btw? :)
Marco.
Been away from home, Marco. Will do it tomorrow night, have the tape at the ready :)
chris@panteg
13-11-2010, 11:31
Aaaargh! Chris Frankland!
Yes ' its crap but it just makes me laugh lol.
Been away from home, Marco. Will do it tomorrow night, have the tape at the ready :)
Super-duper! :)
Marco.
Dave
At the risk of sounding naive ' blinckered or plain stupid (i'm willing to take the risk) records don't add the colouration:)
Its the turntables that play them and some more than other's , some decks like the NAS range for example ! sound as neutral as one could want , the Techie is also neutral to me adding little bloom than i can tell.
on the other hand certain classic decks , make records sound yummy and warm ! though these days its been toned down and perhaps too much the other way , but that's my view anyway.
I have personally watched an acetate being cut at 45rpm and had the pleasure of playing this back on a half decent player through a half decent system in comparison. Acetates can only be played once for maximum fidelity, although I had around six months of occasional playing before it was totally shagged.
Bear with me on this please.
The first playback was incredibly close to the master on a direct comparison, but comparison of the lacquer to the 45rpm 12" single prepared earlier from this same source tape showed massive losses in focus, dynamics and raw emotion in the singing (Blue Nile "Tinseltown/Regret"). Now, THIS is where the fun starts.....
I don't know whether the losses are in the several stages from lacquer/acetate to the vinyl finished product, or whether it's purely the playback turntable's ability to "terminate" the vinyl properly. I appreciate "experiences are experiences personal to the listener and sometimes shared by others in the know" but a number of professionals I've spoken to over the decades have often had a terrible job getting the musical message from master to vinyl and the best of these people are true masters of the art IMO.
Now again, my own personal experiences subsequent to this dem/comparison showed me just how far away most stereo systems are from lifelike dynamics, especially where live acoustic jazz is concerned and without going over my head as regards recording techniques/limiting/compression etc.. I found that much could be done to minimise the compression/slugging effects that some turntables have on the proceedings. In my case twenty years ago, it was the Garrotted Decca/Deccapod and the record directly coupled to a 1" thick approx graphite platter which showed that properly terminating the vinyl dramitically improved the results. Pink Triangle were around as well and getting great results, although the inconsistent finish of their then products and frailty in general kept me away from their range.
I've discussed before that the Achromat may just be the answer to correctly terminating the vinyl on a wider variety of decks than the herbies mat can (haven't tried the herbies thicker ones etc though), but the fact that "we" have to prat around with mats in the first place must say something??? LP's aren't made of metal and the state of most LP's in terms of quality of material and sheer weight is often suspect I reckon.
That's where I was coming from as regards vinyl reproduction. Much of what I said is, I think, provable and repeatable, so I think the term "absolutist bullshit" is a little unfair.
Now, regarding digital - I have heard an early Sony 1610 inserted as A-D and D-A in a tape-loop and genuinely couldn't tell the difference. The technically superior 1630 was in use at Decca for decades and the final sound of Decca CD's were far more to do with the abilities and tastes of the mastering engineers than the technology used I found. I remember being very impressed with the sonics of a Wyndham Hill compilation on vinyl, only to discover it was a very early digital recording.. From personal experiences, as well as confirmation by more experienced professional practitioners, I have it on good authority that the digital master is as near indistinguishable from the original recording - if left untouched - as it's possible to get. But again, it depends what the mastering engineer does in preparing this, together with the CD manufacture, as it would appear from regular postings here and elsewhere that different CD's supposedly made from the same master do actually have slightly different sonics and sometimes, transferring these CD's to a computer and streaming the sound out through a decent DAC actually improves things from the CD source. Maybe this is where hi-res comes in, as the margin for error is so much higher?
Hopefully I've now clarified things a bit without upsetting anyone in the process. I enjoy playing records for all the right (hopefully) reasons and look forward to trying an Achromat myself at some point - The Thorens dislikes the Herbies with a passion and the old ribbed "124" mat isn't quite thick enough as the R200 cannot be height adjusted. I've never said that the Achromat won't work, merely clumsily suggesting that vinyl does have losses which have to be minimised by careful termination, as well as the playback deck being as inert as possible to airborne and structural vibrations. All this before discussions about stylus profiles and end-of-side distortions..
There, I think I've covered it as best I can without going over my head too deeply I can't get out. I feel better for that and hope it's made some little sense to you guys with open minds and willing to experiment.
TTFN
Hi Dave,
Thanks for that - most interesting :)
It was quite simply that your earlier 'statement':
The vinyl ADDS "NICE" COLOURATION which can charm the ears - FACT!!!
...accompanied by the word "FACT" in capitals, including three exclamation marks, came across as, shall we say, somewhat 'provocative' ;)
Either you were deliberately intending to provoke a negative response from those with diametrically opposed views on that matter (such as me), when applied in all circumstances, or you made a mistake, mate. We're all human!
You're entitled to your opinion, which is as valid as anyone else's here (and I respect your experience in the industry very much), but your opinion, or anyone else's here, including mine, can never be portrayed absolutely as 'fact'. It will always only be YOUR opinion. It's as simple as that.
So let's move on now and put this little disagreement behind us :cool:
Marco.
No probs.
Provocative? ME? I'm not really.
Not intentionally I don't think so, no ;)
Anyway, glad you're back amongst the fold, old chap! If we can leave out the "fact" thing when merely expressing our opinions, we'll be fine :cool:
Marco.
I haven't had a turntable in the house for 25 years, or any records.
Maybe I should try this software and see what I'm missing?
http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/vinyl/
Actually, I'm telling porkies. In the Auntie's house in Nicosia we have an acoustic gramophone, a Pye Black Box and a few 78s which will play on either turntable.
None of them sound any good.
<very big grin>
Hehehe... Aye, Brian, but I bet they look cool, though, and are more individual and unique than any soulless mass-produced plastic bloody computer! ;)
Marco.
Hehehe... Aye, Brian, but I bet they look cool, though, and are more individual and unique than any soulless mass-produced plastic bloody computer! ;)
Sadly, the mahogany case of the Pye Black Box is badly knocked about, else I would have used it to house a small format PC, a DAC and a power amp.
Here I go again - :mental:
I actually have a Black Box from 1956 which I inherited. The sound was sublime on 78's and I learned the proper version of Clair de Lune via this record player (I'd only appreciated the Tomita version before). After 20 years in storage it needs some work, as there's a hum at all volumes (apparently it's "those" caps, a known problem on these old amps) and the old BSR Monarch UA6 needs a good lubing :eyebrows: The amps on these record players were apparently rather good, being transformer coupled (instead of the cheap-Dansette way of hard-thrashing a single valve into a small speaker I believe) and with a quite sweet tone when removed from the casing and used externally.
Link to details of a later one (1960 or thereabouts) with UA15 deck - http://www.radio-workshop.co.uk/pye-black-box.shtml
There's a sub link to the service manual and schematics if Anthony TD wants a laugh (or anyone else for that matter).
More to the point, I am starting to think that "some" 1960's pop records/singles may actually sound better on an old record player as that's what they were intended to be played on :) Once the Black Box is fettled, I'll try it on some mono records and see :)
That's a lot of amplifier in that schematic, Dave.
Ultra linear push pull output stage with driver and pre-amp. (Not transformer coupled in the schematic shown.)
Yes, the Dansettes cut all sorts of corners. I cheap crystal cartridge could kick out half a volt. Enough to drive a single outputs valve. Only an output transformer was needed. To save cost the mains transformer was omitted. The HT was straight off the mains and the valve cathode heater ran from a 50v tap off the turntable motor coil.
Built to a price! But lots of folk could afford them, so why not.
Must look under the bonnet of my Pye and see what I have got.
The pic of the amp shows an output transformer and mine is the mk2 amp.. It's T1 I think and the mains tranny is T2
Thread drift again - apologies folks :)
The pic of the amp shows an output transformer and mine is the mk2 amp.. It's T1 I think and the mains tranny is T2
Thread drift again - apologies folks :)
I have a Monarch Autochanger and the amp just as shown.
Is mine an early one?
chris@panteg
13-11-2010, 19:26
The pic of the amp shows an output transformer and mine is the mk2 amp.. It's T1 I think and the mains tranny is T2
Thread drift again - apologies folks :)
No worry's Dave ! its tradition on here:)
Getting back on topic, folks, I've been having a play with some of the mats today, and one thing I can definitely confirm is that the copper mat together with the Achromat does NOT work!
First of all, the Achromat slips about big time on top of the metal copper mat, which is a total no-no, and bonding it with a little grease isn't much better, with the resulting sound not good at all.... If you want to ruin the Techie's infectious musicality, then this is how to do it!
So that's one combo you can definitely cross off of your list!!
Next move was using the copper mat on its own, which was massively better - it really deadens the resonant stock Techie platter, and produced a very open, detailed and musical sound, without being in any way bright or fatiguing.
However, I then returned to the Achromat on its own, bonded very firmly to the Techie platter, and to my mind that still seems like the best mat solution. There is a real vibrancy and expansive quality in the midrange that truly beguiles with vocals and acoustic instruments, and this is utterly magical.
Therefore, so far - and I haven't yet come to a conclusive opinion on this - but the Achromat on its own is winning, most likely as a result of its near perfect impedance match with vinyl, which is quite something as the retail price of the copper mat is around £250!!
It undoubtedly looks much sexier, but the Achromat on its own (with the bruil record weight) is so far doing the biz where it matters most! :cool:
I should have an Oyaide to try on Monday.
More later.....
Marco.
I have a Monarch Autochanger and the amp just as shown.
Is mine an early one?
If it's the cream Monarch with dual concentric start/speed knobs bottom right, it's a UA6.
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/6000.jpg
if it has two knobs, one on each front corner, but the steady-arm top left, it's a UA8.
Glad the Achromat is doing its stuff :)
chris@panteg
13-11-2010, 20:20
Good stuff Marco '
My 1st impressions with the Achromat 1200 , are very good indeed:)
played Hendrix ' Valleys of neptune twice today and its so vivid sounding , Redding's bass sounding tighter with better definition ! likewise Mitchell's cymbal work having greater clarity.
Its a leaner tighter presentation compared to the Soundhifi/herbies ' i'm liking it so far:)
Im curios about the Oyaide. The chinese like to copy there stuff and sell them as replicas on e bay, which is pretty weired because most of it is mains plugs.
First of all, the Achromat slips about big time on top of the metal copper mat, which is a total no-no, and bonding it with a little grease isn't much better, with the resulting sound not good at all.... If you want to ruin the Techie's infectious musicality, then this is how to do it!
Interesting, this is a combination I never tried but the copper mat with Herbies worked well.
I should have an Oyaide to try on Monday.
Is this a mat like the copper or a fully fledged platter?
Hi Martin,
It's an MJ-12, same as is shown on Mr Cawley's website:
http://www.soundhifi.com/oyaide.html
The Herbie's is likely to work fine with the copper mat because it's soft and 'rubbery', and so will not slide about on top, whereas the Achromat, as you know, is hard and smooth, and so it skates about like it's on an ice rink, with disastrous sonic consequences.... :doh:
The Oyaide should be interesting, but TBH, it'll have to go some to beat the Achromat bonded firmly onto the stock Techie platter, which is simply stunning! The copper mat on its own is superb, too.
Have you used the double-sided tape and bonded your Achromat now to the platter? :)
Marco.
If it's the cream Monarch with dual concentric start/speed knobs bottom right, it's a UA6.
if it has two knobs, one on each front corner, but the steady-arm top left, it's a UA8.
Cream, dual concentric at bottom right, steady arm top left. UA8?
In another place JC says the cartridge should be replaced with a stereo compatible one, and he gave a Maplins part number.
Mind you, I only have about a dozen ancient 78s!
Hi Chris,
Good stuff Marco '
My 1st impressions with the Achromat 1200 , are very good indeed
played Hendrix ' Valleys of neptune twice today and its so vivid sounding , Redding's bass sounding tighter with better definition ! likewise Mitchell's cymbal work having greater clarity.
Its a leaner tighter presentation compared to the Soundhifi/herbies ' i'm liking it so far
Nice one, mate. It does give a leaner and tighter presentation, and also increases clarity, but that's only as a result of letting you hear more of what's actually on recordings, without the 'flab' and 'bloom' imbued on the sound by mats that colour things more.
If it's accuracy you're after, and therefore ultimately what's faithful to the music (count me in!), IMO, using an Achromat is a no-brainer :)
Marco.
Cream, dual concentric at bottom right, steady arm top left. UA8?
In another place JC says the cartridge should be replaced with a stereo compatible one, and he gave a Maplins part number.
Mind you, I only have about a dozen ancient 78s!
Perhaps we should continue this privately, as I doubt many here would know what a "Black Box" is in a record playing context, let alone the idea of fitting an Achromat to one :D
Lol... Yes, please do! I'll move the off-topic stuff to a separate thread later.
Marco.
chris@panteg
14-11-2010, 13:20
Some more thought's
There is so much more energy and dynamic inflection as i understand it is far better than the herbie's mat which to me sounds a little laidback and perhaps a little dull by comparison , bass is very different being more defined and punchy with better slam.
Very happy with this ' can't wait to get a better cartridge now.
Well done Arthur ' i'm not looking at mats anymore , sorted
Hi Chris, when you say, leaner, tighter sound this is not at the expense of loosing musicality, or a drying out of the sound?
I had turned off my system while away for the weekend. I don't normally ever turn it off and this was a reminder why. Eek!
Several hours later...
I've stuck down the Achromat to the platter with double-sided thin tape. Had a good listen and I can't discern any difference from without tape. However, my Achromat is a very tight fit to the MN bearing spindle and I doubt I was getting any slippage before.
Further thoughts on what the Achromat is doing: wonderful accentuation of fine detail, tiny cues, acoustic of the recording venue and general realism. Highly neutral. Tight bass which can sound light but in fact goes deeper. Just 'more there'.
Now for the PH SR5-21 PSU when it arrives.
chris@panteg
15-11-2010, 01:25
Hi Chris, when you say, leaner, tighter sound this is not at the expense of loosing musicality, or a drying out of the sound?
No not a all ' the herbies has a certain thickness in the bass , a little too full ! the Achromat seems to be perfectly balanced .
My spelling is getting worse, " what does loosing mean when l am trying to say losing- and that was before a night shift.:)
No not a all ' the herbies has a certain thickness in the bass , a little too full ! the Achromat seems to be perfectly balanced .
On the TD125, no bass at all and a smeary lightness in the treble. The Spacemat on the 125 is better, although the old "124" mutli-ribbed mat is best so far.
Interesting this, how different products work with some decks better than others. A bloomin' headache for the rest of us though :)
chris@panteg
15-11-2010, 11:44
Dave ' yeah it is most odd , and i have decided to keep the Soundhifi/Herbies mat as an alternative and interestingly it works on my SLQL1 .
Have you used the double-sided tape and bonded your Achromat now to the platter? :)
Marco.
Continuing my slow but inexorable SL-1210 mods I secured my Achromat to the platter with 4 strips of double sided sticky tape tonight - definitely better with than without. Even more definition and focus.
Steve
Nice one, Steve - glad it worked. It does for me, too :)
I've been testing the Achromat against the rather more expensive copper mat, both on their own using the stock Techie platter, and it has compared very favourably with it so far, although I haven't reached a conclusive opinion yet.
Next week it'll be Oyaide and customised Mike New platter time! ;)
Marco.
Hi Marco - I look forward to reading your thoughts on the copper mat & Oyaide because I have been thinking of getting one but was reluctant to punt all that dollar unheard. I'm trying to get hold of one of the Applied Fidelity "screw down" platter mats which look like they ought to sound stunning but am having transatlantic comms difficulties as the moment :rolleyes:
Steve
So - I managed to purchase a large tub of petroleum jelly from the baby aisle of Morrison's without any dirty looks ;)
Spreading a thin but complete layer of Vaseline onto the Mike New platter wasn't too difficult, using a knife, starting from the centre, spinning the platter gently and working outwards. I would say I coated the platter with a layer approximately 0.5mm thick, leaving the very centre and edge clear to allow for spread. I put multiple records and the Bruil weight on top to help the Achromat bond tightly to the platter. This combo isn't going to separate easily.
Now, I wasn't sure what to expect and, as previously noted, self adhesive tape hadn't helped at all. I believe this to be because tape only helps with slippage and I wasn't getting any. However, Vaseline forms an airtight bond which is very different as the mat is now a composite with the platter and damps it as well as correctly coupling the vinyl.
Wow! The bass is back in spades, everything is tight, tight TIGHT. Dynamics are superb and the soundstage is even more finely defined. Music is vivid and infectious and just sounds right. This feels rather like I've just hooked in the Paul Hynes SR-5 PSU but I haven't received it yet!
I can't speak for the Technics original platter but if you have an MN platter and fancy buying an Achromat I can't recommend this combination highly enough. For the price of some Vaseline (there's plenty spare for other uses...) you should try this out. I don't think you'll be wiping it off in a hurry :)
Afterthough: this now renders my Herbies mat entirely redundant. Surface noise is also impressively low.
Great stuff, Martin. Others should now follow your lead.
I've always known that bonding mats to platters works, but of course it helps if you use the right substance to do the bonding.... :)
Now you know why I asked Mike to bond (anneal) a copper mat to my platter (the effect is similar, although even more pronounced)! ;)
Enjoy, matey :cool:
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
09-12-2010, 21:24
Annealing is nothing to do with bonding ;) All it does is make the metal softer :)
The soft copper bonded to the harder aluminium of the Technics platter damps out the resonances of the aluminium platter. It's a wierd sandwich that works :eyebrows:
Lead would do the same trick, annealing wouldn't be needed & it'd be a pita as the thing would probably melt :lol: But if bonded to an aluminium platter it'd certainly damp it in a big way ;)
I seem to recall Mike saying he had no churches in his local area or he might have tried it :lolsign:
Hi Mark,
Annealing is nothing to do with bonding ;) All it does is make the metal softer
Indeed, after which it makes the annealed metal bond better to the platter than it would have done if hadn't been made softer - simples! :)
Marco.
Mike_New
11-12-2010, 02:37
So - I managed to purchase a large tub of petroleum jelly from the baby aisle of Morrison's without any dirty looks ;)
Spreading a thin but complete layer of Vaseline onto the Mike New platter wasn't too difficult, using a knife, starting from the centre, spinning the platter gently and working outwards. I would say I coated the platter with a layer approximately 0.5mm thick, leaving the very centre and edge clear to allow for spread. I put multiple records and the Bruil weight on top to help the Achromat bond tightly to the platter. This combo isn't going to separate easily.
Now, I wasn't sure what to expect and, as previously noted, self adhesive tape hadn't helped at all. I believe this to be because tape only helps with slippage and I wasn't getting any. However, Vaseline forms an airtight bond which is very different as the mat is now a composite with the platter and damps it as well as correctly coupling the vinyl.
Wow! The bass is back in spades, everything is tight, tight TIGHT. Dynamics are superb and the soundstage is even more finely defined. Music is vivid and infectious and just sounds right. This feels rather like I've just hooked in the Paul Hynes SR-5 PSU but I haven't received it yet!
I can't speak for the Technics original platter but if you have an MN platter and fancy buying an Achromat I can't recommend this combination highly enough. For the price of some Vaseline (there's plenty spare for other uses...) you should try this out. I don't think you'll be wiping it off in a hurry :)
Afterthough: this now renders my Herbies mat entirely redundant. Surface noise is also impressively low.
Martin,
Thank you for taking up my Vaseline suggestion and trying it. You will find that over the weeks the 'connection" becomes even more effective.
It has just taken me about 5-10 minutes to separate my copper mat from the original Alluminium platter that I initially used on my development deck.
I have just received my own Achromat, and am about to do the same thing.
Thanks, Mike, for the great tweak. I will be very interested in your findings.
I have a Technics SL-1100A, which is basically the SL-110 unit with tonearm. With great advice from this forum, I have just updated the SL-1100A with a Jelco 750D and have been very happy with the results - everything is starting to sing.
I am still using the original Technics rubber mat. Does anyone know if the Achromat SL1200 version mat with the lip will fit the SL-1100/SL-110, or will the Universal unit fit properly?
Mike_New
17-12-2010, 02:33
GeorgeO,
The Achromat comes in a version which fits the SL1200 platter and allows for the lip.
I have just recieved mine for use on my platter, with the undercut for the lip, by mistake. Although it is not a problem for me.
It fits the standard SL1200 platter very well.
I also used to use the old technics rubber mat, and just in the last few days got my Achromat. The improvement is noticeable, although I am waiting until I fit my new Benz Ruby3 to my 'V' before I make any real comparisons.
Mike
The improvement is noticeable, although I am waiting until I fit my new Benz Ruby3 to my 'V' before I make any real comparisons.
Mike, that's interesting. I've certainly revelled in the benefits of the Achromat on your platter, but I'm intrigued as to which version of your platter you are using and what you are hearing.
Mike_New
19-12-2010, 22:59
Martin,
I am currently using it with my standard platter (no copper) and using the TTweights copper mat (with Vaseline bonding) and my first impressions were that the sound seemed to be more real and the base was more defined and positioned. The surface noise did seem to be less, especially from my older 'Play Bach" recordings. My reference records so far have been Rachmaninov's '2nd symphony', Diana Krall "Live In Paris" and Jacques Loussier's 'Play Bach' series, also Bill Evans 'At the Montreux Jazz Festival" (the piano seemed to come into the room!)
I have a Technics SL-1100A, which is basically the SL-110 unit with tonearm. With great advice from this forum, I have just updated the SL-1100A with a Jelco 750D and have been very happy with the results - everything is starting to sing.
I am still using the original Technics rubber mat. Does anyone know if the Achromat SL1200 version mat with the lip will fit the SL-1100/SL-110, or will the Universal unit fit properly?
Hi GeorgeO,
the SL1100 mat has little raised rings at the 7, 10 and 12 inch mark and this ain't going to give much record support. The 1100 can feed back badly if it isn't properly mounted (my 110 was awful) but once sorted, it's still a fine looking and performing deck (played with one last year). Decent heavy support plus a good mat (the Achromat 1200 should be perfect I reckon) should usefully update this vernerable old deck nicely.
P.S. Is the jelco really much better than the Technics tonearm, which really looks the spaceage part if nothing else?
P.S. Is the jelco really much better than the Technics tonearm, which really looks the spaceage part if nothing else?
Lol - you're not being serious, are you? :lol:
Marco.
Ah, I've just realised you were talking about the arm on the SL1100 :doh:
Marco.
S'alright, I'm a much misunderstood gent these days - mumble, mumble, nobody loves me, nobody cares.....
Beechwoods
20-12-2010, 19:23
:grouphug:
Anyone for a cuddle?
Hi Dave-
Thanks for the info on the Achromat 1200 version. Reckon I'll try it as one of my next tweaks.
The Jelco 750D arm gave a significant jump in imaging and depth of field over the space-age but stock Technics arm, although I can't be sure if this was because the stock arm was 35 years old and well used, or that the Jelco is really that much better. Probably a bit of both.
In any case , the Jelco really woke up my DL-103SA and the system is truly beginning to sing. Seems to get better the more I play it. Come to think of it, so do I!
As long as the Jelco 750 stays well under £500 including cable, it'll remain a giant killer IMO. I'm sure the standard 1100 tonearm is fine still, but the Jelco has a heavier duty bearing cage and optional damping which I'm sure is superior in every way :)
17 pages later and its arms you are talking about, how many members bought an achromat then? should have gone to specsavers, sorry I meant should have bought a blue Horizon mat instead, oh well at least I have one and think its the best mat there is, difficult to review anything personally when I sell them so I left it to Paul Rigby of record collector fame who was very impressed with it, I have run out of stock now until the next lot arrives doh!
I listened to the herbies mat the other night and it does not do the business for me against my BH, even with the stock platter and no oyaide mat (oyaide less again as sold the one I was using to another good customer / friend).
Should I try a funk firm mat or has anyone used the blue horizon one against it, I have sold quite a few BH's so there must be someone who can opinionate?
As long as the Jelco 750 stays well under £500 including cable, it'll remain a giant killer IMO. I'm sure the standard 1100 tonearm is fine still, but the Jelco has a heavier duty bearing cage and optional damping which I'm sure is superior in every way :)
I am wavering towards a Jelco myself, if I managed to get one for £250 I would snap it up.
17 pages later and its arms you are talking about, how many members bought an achromat then?
I did and I'm very happy with it. Vaseline bonded to the Mike New platter, it does the business in spades for me.
I am wavering towards a Jelco myself, if I managed to get one for £250 I would snap it up.
Just how many arms does a man need? :)
Just how many arms does a man need? :)
The RB300 with cardas re-wire is going on one of the lencos I have to refurb and sell on, I have a Linn arm to go on the other Lenco, your Michell arm is currently on my SL1210 and doing a damn fine job apart from the lid won't fit now and the Garrard 401 is sat on its new plinth ARMLESS.
I have to get some spacers made for the Garrard as the arm does not raise up enough.
alfie2902
30-04-2011, 00:26
I've only read the first few pages of the thread so forgive me if covering old ground!
Has anyone tried an Achromat directly on to a platter that rings? If so what were the results?
Alot of the vintage DD TT have platters that ring, the DP-6000 does, the ringing was calmed by the use of thick heavy rubber mats & I wonder how the Achromat would work on the DP-6000.
I've got an Achromat here that I tried with my old Systemdek, so why don't I just try the Achromat on the DP-6000? well the platter is not flat....
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss55/alfie2902/DenonDP-6000jpg3.jpg
as the picture shows the label area is raised by 4mm the original rubber mats depth is 7mm so there's a 3mm void under the label area.
So to try the Achromat I would need to turn or mill out the centre to the size of the raise in the platter, which is about the size of the cutout for the label already on the Achromat!
I wonder though if a 1 or 2mm silicon/sorbothane mat inbetween the platter & Achromat might be better at controling the ringing!?
The Herbies way excellent mat seems to offer perhaps what I need though with varying thickness' offered & are available with custom center hole for only $1.50 extra, any size.
Any thought anyone?
hi
the blue horizon mat will do the job perfectly I reckon, it is 2 mats and the first one has a big hole in the middle and the 2nd the standard hole, picture below, you may find the orginator of this thread prefers the BH mat now anyway! I can send you one to try if it doesn't work send it back no problem.
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/BONI/ttmat.jpg
alfie2902
30-04-2011, 12:02
Hi David,
Thanks for the offer of an home dem on the Blue Horizon mat, very much appreciated!
First though I would need to know the thickness of both sections? After a quick read of info available it seems the top donut section would be very thin if it's used as a spacer to make up from 180g to 120g records! probably only 1mm thick? If you look at the picture I posted above I would need this section with the large hole to be a minimum 4mm thick & the hole to be 104mm dia! I'm sure you wouldn't want me cutting large holes in the other section then sending it back either?
So if you could measure the sections thicness & hole diameter we could then take it from there!
Cheers, alfie.
I can see your predicament. I tried loads of mats to over come the problem of the technics platter and one thing that proved useful for raising the mat beyond the platter lip was a 2mm neoprene mat from the sound dead steel people. Easy to cut a hole in and then use it underneath the blue horizon or archomat. It should improve the damping and give you more choice.
alfie2902
30-04-2011, 18:00
I can see your predicament. I tried loads of mats to over come the problem of the technics platter and one thing that proved useful for raising the mat beyond the platter lip was a 2mm neoprene mat from the sound dead steel people. Easy to cut a hole in and then use it underneath the blue horizon or archomat. It should improve the damping and give you more choice.
Thanks Colin, I'll check out the SDS mat! There is a few options of thin 1 or 2mm silicon/sorbothane mats that may act to damp the ringing platter & then sit a 2nd interface mat on top.
The problem being though, the raised centre of the platter is 4mm high so any mats placed on top of a 2mm mat would still need to be modded to fit. this then renders any trial mats useless to sell on & could become rather expensive. Ideally I will narrow down the choice through others experience & then try 1 or 2 of the favs myself.
The spindle tapers to a point also so a combined height of 7mm or perhaps a mm or 2 more is maximum I think! The thick rubber original is 7mm so that's a good starting point & a 5mm Achromat modded by milling out the centre sat on top of a 2mm silicon/sorbothane mat also cut out in the centre has been my fav idea so far, but we will see!
If it helps I can send you a sheet of rubber just advise thickness, you will have to cut it into a circle but that should be easy enough.
Beobloke
04-05-2011, 13:16
Has anyone tried an Achromat directly on to a platter that rings?
Yes. On a Garrard 301, 401, LAD GAJ828 and various Vestaxes.
If so what were the results?
It silenced tham all. I know it seems odd as the Achromat doesn't 'feel' heavy or dense enough to do anything but remember it is designed to control unwanted vibrations effectively and consequently it silences bell-like platters very effectively.
alfie2902
11-05-2011, 23:14
Well I had a couple of hours to myself yesterday, so I decided to take a craft knife to my Achromat! :mental:
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss55/alfie2902/IMG_0719.jpg
Putting a new sharp blade in the knife & then cutting lightly & carefully for about 20 mins led to this. :)
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss55/alfie2902/IMG_0728.jpg
A bit of cleaning up & removing of a slight burr & it's ready to try! :eyebrows:
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss55/alfie2902/IMG_0722.jpg
After lowering the FR & changed the VTA by about 3mm, I spent a few hours listening last night & again this evening & am pretty impressed with the results! I've not as yet tried double sided tape or vaseline to 'bond' the Achromat to the platter but will at some point soon. I thought I'd swap back to the original heavy rubber mat before trying it 'bonded'.
I'm pretty much getting the effects as stated before in this thread. The first thing to notice is the extra detail & cleaner resolution with a little extra attack to leading edges. There is though a slight change to tonal balance, it's got a leaner but more lively sound. The bass is tighter but seems to be robbed of a little extension. The mids are more open & communicative with a little more expression to vocal performance. I just hope some type of 'bond' will improve the low frequency extension, I might yet trim a mm or 2 off of VTA & see if this helps before trying tape or vaseline.
So far pretty impressed though!
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss55/alfie2902/IMG_0736.jpg
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss55/alfie2902/IMG_0762.jpg
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss55/alfie2902/IMG_0740.jpg
That's a neat bit of improvisation there, Alfie. Well done!
Indeed - nice one, Alfie! :)
The bonding should help deliver better bass, but bear in mind that because the Achromat will be a much better impedance match with vinyl than your old rubber mat, what you're largely hearing is the lack of coloration and 'bloom' the rubber mat would've been adding to lower frequencies.
Therefore, in effect, you're now hearing more of the genuine sonic signature of your T/T, arm and cartridge. I use a 3mm Achromat on my Techy, which is bonded very firmly to the MN platter, and there is no shortage of low-frequency extension whatsoever. Martin does the same thing with a 5mm Achromat, and his Techy doesn't lack bass either :cool:
Marco.
nice work!!!
I know we all like the achromat but I thought I demonstrate the differences. Check these 2 video's out. The first shows the std platter with no mat (yes I know you'd never use it without 1 at all) and the 2nd with the achromat attached with lots of very thin blutak spots (easier to clean then vaseline during the testing!!) Make sure you have a reasonable volume during playback!
KfDIpF-d9qg
mYgoVwT87WM
Not really subjective in relation to another mat but at least it demonstrates what its doing.
Hi,
I've been playing around with my setup, and I am having problems with getting VTA just-so thanks to the low platter and modified Jelco SA750D base. Basically, the arm pillar wants to be a couple of mm lower than it can be set to get the headshell level.
I have added some credit card spacers to the headshell to correct VTA, but I was thinking that if I used both my Herbie's mat and the freebie Acromat that I got at a HiFi show together I get the VTA adjustment range I need AND possibly the best of both worlds.
As the Acromat is the 'thin' version without the recess for the SL1210 platter, perhaps I would be better using the Herbie's mat on the platter, with the Acromat on top.
What do you think of this idea, and which one should go on top?
Alex
Try them both ways - there's no way to tell how they will work together. You may find a 'full fat' Achromat better than using this combo, though, and may give you enough height.
Don't mean to hijack but why are you not using the blue horizon mat? Every one I have sold has been raved about, it comes in 2 parts so VTA does not need adjusting when a thicker LP is put on, I have been using it on my Garrad also and it sounds much better than the herbies mat that Marco sold me, just curious that is all.
Vinyleyes
07-06-2011, 07:00
Blimey ... you guys adjust the VTA whenever you put heavy duty vinyl on ?? :eek: ........... oh dear ..... lot's to learn yet !! Anybody know a good resource where I can learn turntable set up.
Hi Alex,
The Blue Horizon mat would work better in this instance, as David has said. However, if you like what the Herbie's or Achromat does, sonically, on your T/T, it would be far better to fit an appropriate sized spacer between your cartridge and headshell, to allow for optimal VTA adjustment, and just use your favoured mat on its own (with the likes of a Michell clamp).
The latter is something you should definitely consider buying, as the significant sonic improvement it gives, for such a paltry outlay, is a total no-brainer! :)
Using two different mats is a very bad idea, as being made of different materials they will not interface together properly. All you'll end up doing is creating a 'spongy' effect, for the record to 'float' on top of, which will defeat the close-coupling desired between record, mat and platter, for maintaining optimum signal integrity.
So, nope, using two different mats is a bad idea, dude! :nono:
Marco.
Mike_New
07-06-2011, 07:33
Hi Alex,
The ultimate solution is to fit one of my Bearing Base Plates.
Although I designed these to supliment my Bearing and Platter; thay can be used in circumstances just such as yours, as they raise the whole 'platter and motor system' up by 6mm. Alowing much more head room for VTA adjustment on arms that do not provide much vertical room such as yours and including the SME.
Good idea, Mike, although fitting one isn't a job for the faint-hearted! ;)
It would all depend how keen Alex was on tackling something like that.
Marco.
Hi All,
Thanks for the feedback.
I am currently using a three sections of credit cards between the headshell and cartridge to allow a little more scope for VTA adjustment. This has allowed me to level the headshell, although the arm pillar is still quite close to it's lowest point, but probably isn't optimum!.
Does anyone know of a relatively thick spacer that isn't intended to primarily provide extra weight at the headshell? The effective mass of the Jelco + Oyaide headshell is about 17.5g and the cartridge is 8.8g, so the effective mass is already a little too high for a medium compliance cartridge like my Benz ACE, so I want a lightweight spacer if possible.
David - how thick is the Blue Horizon mat? I think the Acromat is the 3mm version, and I think the Herbie's way mat is 3.7mm thick, so I think I would be looking for a replacement of at least 6mm thickness.
Mike, Can you tell me a bit more about the bearing base plate? This appeals as a solution.
Thanks and regards,
Alex
Mike_New
07-06-2011, 09:32
Hi Alex,
Yes, my Bearing Base Plate is a circular steel plate that is bolted to the alluminium chassis below where the bearing is seated. It is 6mm thick and is designed to enhance the rigidity of the whole assembly when using my High Precision bearing and/or my Solid Alluminium Copper Bonded Platter. Although having said that some people have adopted the base Plate for the same reasons that you are seeking a solution to.
As Marco very correctly says, it does require some degree of DIY skill. But then Marco can only just about get the cork out of his best bottles of red!!
It does involve disassembling the SL1200 into it’s various components, so that you can effectively install the Bearing Base Plate, and securely bolt it to the chassis.
I provide very detailed Installation Instructions with every unit.
And I am sure people such as Martin (in the UK) and Pete in the US and Yves in Canada among many others would be willing to give you hands on help if they are reading this.
Blimey ... you guys adjust the VTA whenever you put heavy duty vinyl on ??
Nope - I'm not that anal! I adjust for an average thickness record, which works fine for them all (but being careful that the cartridge doesn't bottom out on the thickest vinyl).
My picture sequence of the Base Plate installation is hereabouts, will have to search for it.
Ah, here we are:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=148988&postcount=60
Erik van Voorst
08-06-2011, 10:27
oops wrong topic....made a new thread.....see cd-mats
jandl100
09-07-2011, 11:11
Interesting thread - well, the bits about the Achromat.
I've just ordered a "1200" mat from Analogue Seduction - my Pioneer DD tt has a Techie-like platter lip - AS accept returns if it doesn't impress. Although I suspect it will.
There could well be a Herbie mat up for sale soon. ;)
Jerry - the Achromat works very well provided you bond it to the platter. It's imperative that you do that. I use Vaseline to great effect, which you may find extreme, but others have used thin double-sided tape.
jandl100
09-07-2011, 18:51
Hmmm ... yes, I saw your posts about the Vaseline.
But how am I going to explain the purchase to my wife? :scratch:
Perhaps I'll start with double-sided tape .....
Hmmm ... yes, I saw your posts about the Vaseline.
But how am I going to explain the purchase to my wife? :scratch:
Perhaps I'll start with double-sided tape .....
That could be tricky! :lol: But given all the other parcels that must arrive at Jerry Towers, does she even check any more? :lol:
Mike_New
09-07-2011, 23:01
You could try good quality silicon grease, the type that is used in Laboratories to seal the glass stoppers in reaction flasks. This works very well for me.
But then again your good wife may think you have gone kinky!!
Using tape is possible but I do not htink you wil get as good a result.
jimdgoulding
13-07-2011, 04:06
Yeah, the CD sounds closer to the source recording. The vinyl ADDS "NICE" COLOURATION which can charm the ears - FACT!!! If you don't believe me, fair do's. At least you have speakers with some bass welly Marco. So many domestic horrors have boom instead :(
Maybe you need to upgrade your DAC, Marco :lolsign:
One small problem that I haven't been able to get around is that I can't seem to get my CD player to play even one analog recording of the many I have. I guess I'm just stuck with it, not that I mind terribly. BTW, I use an old Oracle mat and think that with it my music is appreciably a little better sounding than the mat my Nottingham came with.
sq225917
13-07-2011, 17:30
Spray on Scothcmount from 3M.
One small problem that I haven't been able to get around is that I can't seem to get my CD player to play even one analog recording of the many I have. I guess I'm just stuck with it, not that I mind terribly. BTW, I use an old Oracle mat and think that with it my music is appreciably a little better sounding than the mat my Nottingham came with.
That was an old post clumsily presented and Marco and I have since discussed what I really meant - and I did post an expansion shortly after I believe.
Cutting records is a true art and in the days before the advent of digital and CD in particular, the best cutting engineers seemed to have a "feel" for what they needed to do to get a great sound from records, bearing in mind the losses in cutting and pressing I aluded to in the aforementioned post. As I think I've stated before and since that time, taking a pre-eq'd etc. tape and doing a straight digital transfer as was done in the mid 80's is a total recipe for disaster. By the early 90's, the editing and mastering tools available to a digital engineer were much better and the best analogue-to-digital remasters can be breathtaking. Even LP's cut from these digital source files can sound better too, although I'd question what the point was in doing this..
Anyway, in recent times I've got the Decca singing nicely and have steeped myself in cheap vintage Garrard folklore :lol: I'm enjoying records immensely and don't give a toss whether CD sounds better or not - far too many other things to really worry about right now :)
jimdgoulding
14-07-2011, 00:54
Thanks, Dave, for your reply :).
jandl100
14-07-2011, 06:32
My Funky mat has arrived. Out with the Herbie! The Herbie is very good, but the Funk Achromat allows more clarity and rez to the sound - both traits that I value. I feel sure, though, that there are many folks who prefer a more relaxed and enveloping sound who would prefer the Herbie.
What about the £20 approx acrylic mats on ebay??? I think Alex_UK has one, but since he's flush, he may have quietly bought Funk one instead out of his wine budget :)
I find on my decks the 3mm acrylic mats better the Achromat except for a "whiteness" or harshness in the upper mid to lower treble. In the end I find this incredibly annoying. 30 quid gets you ones of Vic's mats (Trans-Fi).
What about the £20 approx acrylic mats on ebay??? I think Alex_UK has one, but since he's flush, he may have quietly bought Funk one instead out of his wine budget :)
Mine is one of the eBay specials Dave - this one:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/XTM1-FROSTED-ACRYLIC-TURNTABLE-MAT-REGA-LINN-THORENS-/120735461286?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c1c64efa6#ht_2829wt_1139 - I originally bought it for my Pro-Ject RPM4 which worked well, I've recently been experimenting with it on the 401, with varying success - I don't like it on its own on the aluminium platter but putting the Herbies on first (upside down) with the XTM1 on top worked quite nicely. (Currently using the Technics SL-150 mat on its own on the Garrard - until I brave the garage to look for the original 401 mat, which by most accounts (including yours) is hard to beat...)
The latest Achromats are supplied with extremely sticky self-adhesive pads, which when applied to the underneath of the mat, and dotted equidistantly around the periphery of it, Vaseline then applied elsewhere all over, and then after having pressed firmly down on top of the mat, covering the circumference of it, allow the Achromat to bond so firmly to the platter, that it virtually becomes one with it! :eek:
And THAT makes a MASSIVE difference to the mat's effectiveness, the sonic effect of which one can easily hear.....
So, Jerry, please ensure you do the above, and you will *really* hear what your new Achromat is capable of!! Thus used, IMO, (where record clamps are present) I have used no better turntable mat. The results it gives are utterly superb!
Marco.
jandl100
14-07-2011, 14:41
Oo 'eck - so I still have to brave the wife's curiosity about a Vaseline purchase?
OK. :)
At the moment the mat is held down with 4 strips of extremely sticky but thin double-sided craft tape in a cross pattern from the centre to the rim.
I'll give the lube job with the supplied sticky circles a go. :thumbsup:
... mind you, I tried separating the Funk-supplied sticky pads from their (presumed) covering layers ... I didn't manage to make any headway at all! :scratch: I'll have another go.
Hi Jerry,
Oo 'eck - so I still have to brave the wife's curiosity about a Vaseline purchase?
Hey, you never know, she might let you rub some on HER afterwards - the mind boggles...! :eyebrows: :eyebrows:
I'll give the lube job with the supplied sticky circles a go. :thumbsup:
... mind you, I tried separating the Funk-supplied sticky pads from their (presumed) covering layers ... I didn't manage to make any headway at all! :scratch: I'll have another go.
Please do, as trust me, the effort is WELL worth it, dude. I had to get Del to do it, as she has long nails, which are necessary to seperate the sections of the sticky pads, so there's another opperchancity to get ya ladeee involved in yer hi-fi geekiness! ;)
Once done, it's pretty easy after that to apply the sticky bits to the mat..... :cool:
Marco.
At the moment the mat is held down with 4 strips of extremely sticky but thin double-sided craft tape in a cross pattern from the centre to the rim.
I'll give the lube job with the supplied sticky circles a go. :thumbsup:
... mind you, I tried separating the Funk-supplied sticky pads from their (presumed) covering layers ... I didn't manage to make any headway at all! :scratch: I'll have another go.
I think the 'lube job' really comes into its own over using sticky tape/pads by ensuring there is no air gap at all between mat and platter, giving a complete bond. It really does sound better than tape.
so there's another opperchancity to get ya ladeee involved in yer hi-fi geekiness! ;)
I presume that statement, doesn't also apply to this one!
Once done, it's pretty easy after that to apply the sticky bits to the mat.....
Oh, you didn't mean those sticky bits! Sorry, my bad! :lol:
No, we're not talking about any clots or 'lady juice'! :flasher: :eek: :eyebrows:
Marco.
jandl100
14-07-2011, 19:53
Well, I'm sure I don't understand what Marco and Alex are on about. :nono:
:whistle:
Anyways ... I decided that openness and honesty were the best policy (they usually are in marriage, imho).
"Have we got any Vaseline?" I asked.
"Oh" she repled in concern "Which bit of you is sore?".
:eyebrows:
"No" I said "it's for my new turntable mat."
"Ah." she smiled. "Yes, in the bathroom."
So ... job done. And yes, the sticky pad things are easy to sort once you get the knack ... luckily I don't chew my fingernails so I didn't have to ask the missus to help.
Bloody hell - the mat's not going to come off in a hurry is it? :doh: I reckon it will require a pickaxe to get it off. New turntable? - I'll have to get a new Funk mat!
But yes, it's well worth it.
The immediate and very very obvious improvement for me is a solidity and coherence to the imaging. A small group of chamber musicians suddenly sounds like they are sitting in a concert hall, near each other and playing as a single coherent, mutually supportive musical ensemble.
Yes, the bass is more solid, and the treble a bit smoother and more lucid. But for me the main benefit is a musical one not an obviously hifi one. The playing of the musicians just makes one hell of a lot more sense.
Nicely effective, innit? :)
Marco.
Excellent, Jerry. Mirrors my experience.
Btw, Martin, when I was at Nick G's place, having Paul's new silver DC cable fitted (which you MUST do A.S.A.P, as the improvement it makes is unbelievable!), we discovered a novel (if rather unsubtle) way of removing the MN platter, without disturbing the bonded Achromat.
With the Techy completely disconnected from your system, pop it on the floor, then remove the cartridge and headshell from your tonearm, fix the armtube in place with some tape (or whatever), so it cannot move, and then just turn the turntable upside down, near to the floor, give it a quick jerk, and the platter simply pops out (with the mat undisturbed) allowing you access to the PCB, in order to fit the new DC cable - simples!
So, worry no longer about having to prize off heavily-bonded Achromats, to get at the innards of yer Techy! :cool:
Marco.
Thanks, Marco. I'll be doing the PH cable mod as soon as I get back from holiday.
Mike_New
15-07-2011, 00:38
Another factor to bear in mind when considering the high bond sticky pads or the double sided tapes. Is that you may require to remove the mat in the future (so that you can remove the platter) and this may prove to be a difficult task when dealing with the Achromat.
This is why I reccomended the Vasselene/Silicon Grease approach way back.
With the grease it is relatively easy to use a thin blade (I used a steel backed razor blade and two credit cards) to gently release the vacuum seal that forms if you did the job properly in the first place.
And much more importantly as Martin says there should be no air bubbles between the mat and the platter, with correctly applied grease this is avoided.
Hiya - proud owner of a 'new' (to me) 1210 - currently in stock form with a brand new Ortofon 2M blue. To me it stands as it is as a great deck and I've been enjoying some old and some new vinyl since she arrived.
Didn't know whether to bump this thread or create my own -- I have 95% decided to pull the plug on an Achromat as my first 'tweak'. I was kind of sold on reading this thread, and realising that Mr Pink Triangle is behind it (as a former LPT user - big fan!). The deck currently has the heavy Technics rubber mat (it has a model number on the back).
I have made an aesthetic decision that the platter stays - part of the romance for it (for me - this is purely personal of course) is that the thing should look like a 1210 complete with stroboscope straight from the 70s. If I could afford it, I'd buy that big Yamaha integrated with the VU metres to go with it.
Anyway - my question is about bonding/sealing the Achromat to the Technics platter - as I'm at the start of my journey and as things may be happening 'under the hood' in the coming months and years, I'd like to keep it as easy as possible to remove the mat and platter. Is Vaseline alone enough for a good bond/seal, or does it really need to be the tape as well? How easy is it to remove a taped down mat, and do they come off without damage?
I'm figuring with the nice cart, a tweak with the mat and a nice phono stage - I should be set until I can save for nice example of a 309 or Series IV when one comes up (buy well, buy once). I'm thinking of SME as I find them really nice and secure to operate - as I can be a bit of a Nervous Nelly at the deck. I'm playing with a borrowed Michell record clamp as well at the moment - but would like to try a weight before I pull the plug on a purchase.
Use Vaseline, not tape. The bond formed is very strong and airtight.
RochaCullen
24-02-2014, 10:57
Hey Martin,
What do you say to those folks who insist you should never use vaseline for such an application as it has corrosive qualities that can only mean bad news for your deck? Only asking as I havent the first notion about such things.
Nathan
Use Vaseline, not tape. The bond formed is very strong and airtight.
What do you say to those folks who insist you should never use vaseline for such an application as it has corrosive qualities that can only mean bad news for your deck?
I'd say "find your own solution". Never had any problems in the two years that I was using an Achromat.
I've read this Techie forum about last week and don't stop thinking about some Techie mods... In novadays we have a pretty good choice of Techie TT mats (on eBay especially). So I've thinking about new Platter Mat for my Techie (and I'm use till now a stock Technics thick rubber mat of 5 mm thickness). So the question is... Did anyone tried this UK made Cherry Audio Gloss Acrylic Platter Mat for Technics ?... -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audiophile-Turntable-Mat-fits-TECHNICS-SL1200-SL1210-AUDIO-TECHNICA-LP120-LP1240/331998068484?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
For me it looks very interesting in specs (thickness of 5 mm, weight of 368 g) and attractive black gloss look. So the price attractive too (in comparison of Achromat for example).
keiron99
11-10-2017, 11:35
My ears have never been able to detect any difference in sound quality between the mats I have tried (I'm not saying there isn't any - it probably says more about my ears!)
I now use leather because it looks great and there is no static whatsoever.
Regarding the one you link to, doesn't acrylic produce static and attracts dust?
Has anyone checked this new Stein Music Perfect Interface mat for the Technics?
https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/impressions-stein-music-perfect-interface/
eldarvanyar
19-03-2018, 09:27
I've read this Techie forum about last week and don't stop thinking about some Techie mods... In novadays we have a pretty good choice of Techie TT mats (on eBay especially). So I've thinking about new Platter Mat for my Techie (and I'm use till now a stock Technics thick rubber mat of 5 mm thickness). So the question is... Did anyone tried this UK made Cherry Audio Gloss Acrylic Platter Mat for Technics ?... -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audiophile-Turntable-Mat-fits-TECHNICS-SL1200-SL1210-AUDIO-TECHNICA-LP120-LP1240/331998068484?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
For me it looks very interesting in specs (thickness of 5 mm, weight of 368 g) and attractive black gloss look. So the price attractive too (in comparison of Achromat for example).
Hi I am new to the forum, and have just bought the cherry Audio 5mm mat. It arrived last week and looks very nice. It said on EBay that there were only a limited amount left so I took a chance. I also have an XTM1 platter which is 3mm which I bought for my Thorens TD160 but it fits the Technics better, I have since found.
I have only just bought and had serviced my first Technics SL1200 MK2 and should have it up and running soon. However I intend to get used to the stock sound first before applying the tweaks or upgrades to see what difference they make to my ears. So I will listen to the original rubber mat first.
Other future tweaks will be feet, possibly a bearing and external psu. I have just listened to a friends Nottingham Analogue Space Deck with the tonearm damper silicon trough thing which sits at the cartridge end. Listening to his system both on and off, it made a difference in tightening up the bass when used; less flabby to my ears. So, I am thinking of buying the KAB damper as well although it is the opposite end to the Nottingham damper. Hope that’s not hijacking this thread.
Has anyone tried the new Poly Metal or Poly Glass mats from KAB? Their products are generally very good.
Hi Marco,
I have the Achromat for my SL1210M5G and like it. A friend suggested i try a glass platter mat, I did and found it a tad bright. I also own a Herbies way better 2mm mat, the one that resides inside the lip of the technics platter ... fits like the Achromat. I thought, why not place the Herbies under the glass mat? Made a major improvement so for the heck of it, I removed the glass and placed the Achromat on top of the Herbies. Gobsmacked I am. My ears tell me that the combination is an improvement over the Achromat or glass alone. A Herbies under either seems to warm and open things up and the Achromat/Herbies is what I'm listening to these days. Of course that can change with my mood :cool: but I thought I'd mention it.
Hi Doug,
How's it going? Hope you are well. Sorry for the late reply - only just noticed your post!:)
Glad that combo of mats works well for you. With these things, it's simply a case of 'suck it and see', as the results are very system dependent. Enjoy your tunes! :cool:
Marco.
chris@panteg
20-05-2018, 10:51
This morning I've put the original 5mm thick rubber mat back on the Techie, doesn't seem to be doing anything wrong.
The sound of my system has changed significantly with the puresound 2a3 amplifier now in place, the balance has shifted I would say.
But I'm going to spend a good deal of time listening with the rubber mat, I'm quite liking it so far, surprised.
RobbieGong
20-05-2018, 12:15
This morning I've put the original 5mm thick rubber mat back on the Techie, doesn't seem to be doing anything wrong.
The sound of my system has changed significantly with the puresound 2a3 amplifier now in place, the balance has shifted I would say.
But I'm going to spend a good deal of time listening with the rubber mat, I'm quite liking it so far, surprised.
Dont be surprised at all Chris,
I found the same in my set up and that is / was in the context of experimenting with a long list of different mats, over a long period of time.
I'm known for having an ear that is extremely sensitive to changes in regard to the sound from my set-up (just ask my friends, daughters and the Mrs)
'It sounds alright, why you not happy with it ? why'd you keep going over and over ? :mental: type thing.......
The times they've seen me agonising and persevering with nailing the sweet spot via final on the fly vta adjustment.
I've always had the last laugh after when they've said 'thats sounds wonderful !' :)
Trust your ears Chris, everytime.
Mats in my exeprience do change the sound, some a little, some a lot.
Some dampen certain frequencies, some 'heighten' treble frequency and / or offer a sound or sense of greater clarity often depending on their structure ie: acrylic, foam, metal - they all bring something of that to procedings.
I found the 5mm Techie matt a bit too thick and hard for my liking which resulted in too much damping.
Mike News ETP (engineered teflon plastic) is excellent in terms of non resonance, composition and relation to vinyl so it really doesnt need much in the way of additional damping.
Mikes earliest pre-production reviewer found the softer 3mm Techie to the best of the mats he tried at that time, I then found exactly the same.
Everything comes through in a right and natural sense, nothing exagerated, dampened or dull. Instruments, vocals and textures sound as they should way over any of the usual regarded suspects I've tried.
Different things work for different people / systems and thats cool.
As I say, trust your lugs and if it sounds right and good then happy days Chris :)
chris@panteg
20-05-2018, 13:06
Thanks Robbie, I think I'll just listen to it for a few days and then switch back to my inspire acrimat and then decide.
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