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Barry
24-10-2010, 23:36
As this is my 3,000th post, I thought I ought to celebrate (?) by doing something a little different. So this is a bit of an essay, which I hope might develop into a useful and interesting discussion.

On the face of it, the question seems both facile and trivial – “no, of course not”; we are all music lovers and have probably spent not insignificant sums on the software (as well as the hardware). However let’s examine this state of affairs a little more closely, and to do that I will have to argue from a personal point of view.

Unlike many members here, my music collection is relatively modest: without actually counting, I have about 1000 CDs and about the same number of LPs (I’ll ignore material I have on either cassette or on reels of tape, since this accounts for only a small proportion). Or to put it another way, that’s around 1600 hour’s worth of listening. If I were to play a different CD or LP each time, without repeating myself, and were to listen to my system for 8 hours a day, it would take about 7 months to go through my inventory. So what you may say? Well I know of a few members who have 4,500 LPs: that’s 3000 hours and would take just over a year to go through, if played for 8 hours a day. Even better (or worse) there are record collectors who have 10,000 or even 20,000 records in their collections. Applying the same mathematics, it would take these fortunate few: two and a quarter and four and a half years respectively, to go through their collections! And would you want to do this anyway?

And here we unearth another problem. I have very wide tastes in music. This has the advantage that at any time there is usually something I can play to match my mood and that of any guests who might be around. The disadvantage is that I can sometimes forget what I have in my collection. In this last regard, it is for good reason that the first new post I read when I log-on will be from the thread ‘Spinning Today – What Are You Listening To Right Now?’ Not only am I interested in the music tastes of other members, which is after all is one of the reasons why I joined, but I will often be reminded of a disc or record I have and had forgotten about and say to myself “What a good choice, I’ve got that – I’ll play it now”.

Another disadvantage in having a moderately large collection, and forgetting what I have manifests itself when I’m looking at offers such as the ‘2 for £10’ or ‘3 for £20’ HMV often run. There have been a number of times when I have bought something as part of these offers; only to find when I file it away, I already possess a copy. Conversely I have at times declined an offer thinking I already had a copy, only to find that I didn’t: by which time the offer has passed, or the CD in question has been sold and other copies are no longer available. But maybe this is a symptom of creeping senility!

My difficulties are further exacerbated by my constant on-going interest in new music (or rather, music which is new to me), either through listening to radio programmes such as Radio 3’s ‘Late Junction’, or through member’s posts in the above mentioned thread, plus of course serendipitous discoveries in charity shops, or through listening to new purchases by friends. Listening to radio: plays, concerts, humour and even the news is all part of my day’s listening; so reducing the time to play discs, both digital and analogue - my eight hour estimate is probably more like five.

And then there is the problem of storage, care and maintenance of all this software as hard copy. Of late I seem to be acquiring more and more CDs, at times at the rate of ten a week. They have to be stored neatly out of the way. At the moment I have completely run out of storage: my shelves are full, CDs are stacked on top of those on the shelves. CDs are piled up on tables, along with books (but that’s another possible thread) and at times even piled on the floor or on the CD player itself. They’re taking over the place. Even LPs are now leant against the wall or even against those neatly filed away. Now before you all tell me of the convenience and robustness in downloading, keeping all the material on a hard disk or two, and of the benefits of computer audio in general, I’ll simply say: “I’m too old for all that now”. Were I to pursue this approach, I would have to have another hard disk containing duplications as back up in the event of a disk crash. And even then I would still keep those CDs and LPs I own. Anyway, I like to look at disc covers and read the sleeve notes, though the horrid little booklet that comes with the CD provides less enjoyment in this regard than that of the LP sleeve.

Finally there is the problem of cataloguing. I believe this subject has been touched upon in a different thread. Quite simply I cannot and would not want material within each medium simply filed in alphabetical order. I have to break the filing down into genres, and then within each genre artists are filed alphabetically by last name, then first name, then date of release. Generally this works quite well, except for artists who through their career move from one genre to another. For example: is John Martyn folk, pop, jazz-folk, folk-rock or what? It can get worse than that with some classical composers: clarinet concertos come before oboe concertos and piano concertos, and these come before symphonies. However, when you have the same piece of music performed by several different ensembles, do you file them alphabetically by performer or in chronological order of issue? What do you do when a CD has music by two (sometime three) different composers? Do you file under the first work, when you might have bought it for the second? And then there are compilations! Sometimes I just give up and rely on my ‘looking around’ a particular area in my collection.

Life was much simpler at the beginning of my student days, when I possessed less than twenty LPs, and even when it had grown, so as to fill six wine cases, I knew exactly what I had and where it was.

Regards

John
25-10-2010, 04:27
Interesting post Barry
I have no idea how much music I bought I guess at least 2 to 4 albums a week for over 20 years Every now and then I go through a big cull I never see the point of keeping music I will not listen too I tend to listen to music 2 to 4 hours a day and often more at the weekend but there will be still albums in my collection I will never listen too. I guess like you I listen to music depending on mood and this can be quite varied for instance I never really know what I might listen too but when I find a album I really love I will tend to play it a lot until I get to the pont I will need a break
I not really answered your question but I guess for me music enriches my life and after a hard dayi t also like coming home to a friend something that enriches me so never enough music but perhaps to many albums

Joe
25-10-2010, 08:48
My own collection is even more 'modest' than Barry's (about 500 LPs and 800 CDs), but some recordings in both formats get played to death whilst others are still in their shrink-wrap.

I think it's certainly possible to have 'too much music' in the sense of owning stuff you will never listen to. There's also likely to be stuff you once liked, but now can't stand, and it seems to me that others might as well benefit rather than have music sat unplayed in a cupboard or on a shelf. I did have a clear-out some time back, and will have another once I have the time. All my unwanted stuff goes to the charity shop, so there's a bit of altruism involved.

As far as classifying stuff is concerned, I don't, really. The classical stuff is in one place and non-classical stuff in another, but that's as far as it goes, so no worries about genres and sub-genres. Very occasionally I have trouble locating something, but there's always several other things on my mental playlist, so no worries there either.

Rare Bird
25-10-2010, 09:56
As you all know my musical intrests & that they are locked in a time capsule that never ventures past 1973, 1972 if i can help it..A short list of 3,000 CD's i'm trying to get through, i once owned all of them on vinyl. Every single album is important to me, i have this music on constantly in what ever way possible, on computer, walk about portables etc etc while ever i'm awake i'll fill my head.Some people buy albums on a whim, they buy any old junk from charity shop of bargin basement bin etc to me that is hoarding, they shouldnt really be giving shelf space to, if you think you won't listern to it again, bin it..The beauty of being me is i nothing new will ever be released (apart from reissue bonus laden rip off's) I have another short list of a couple hundered that has never seen a CD issue as yet! It's not clever having a massive collection unless it is a specialised collection imho.

MartinT
25-10-2010, 11:08
I have about 1500 CDs and about the same number of LPs. My collection probably obeys the Gaussian curve where there are a few records-to-die-for, a middling set of good music and a few mistakes and crap that I've bought accidentally.

The buying pattern for rock and classical music is different: for rock and pop I look for new music and discs to fill holes in my collection (I still don't have every Yes album). For classical, I have pretty much every piece that I love and so I look for fabulous recordings to supplement those I have. In other words, repeats in a classical collection are acceptable and even beneficial as you can compare performances and recording quality. I must have at least 10 Beethoven 9th Symphonies!

Do I need a bigger collection? Not really, I have plenty enough to listen to. No-one goes through their collection linearly so there will always be those favourites and the ones I rarely play, which can surprise me with something new.

DSJR
25-10-2010, 11:31
My LP collection is remote from the main house, so not a storage problem. When we moved, I culled a few hundred that I'd duplicated on CD and thought I'd never play again, but of course I've lived to regret it with some of them. I'm seriously considering "doing an Alex" with my CD's and replacing the easily damaged and bulky jewell cases with plastic sleeves, retaining the paperwork therein. Would cut the amount of space taken up no end. Perhaps I could start with the compilations???

MartinT
25-10-2010, 17:01
I'm going to start with culling the hundreds of freebie CDs that came with Gramophone etc. They are never played and just take up space.

Jason P
25-10-2010, 17:42
It's an interesting one Barry. It cuts to the heart of our 'more is more' culture in the west, and the slightly obsessive quality that drives many hifi fans (and I include myself in this description)

We in the west are increasingly suffering from choice overload - and hence a dwindling attention span. I find it odd that I can recite songs and adverts from 20 or 30 years ago, when the lyrics that I've just listened to in the car are a blank to me... I think it has a lot to do with not just age, but the sheer volume of information we're bombarded with - and expected to make decisions on.

Like you I have a modest collection - maybe 500 CDs and the same number of albums - yet maybe only 30% of those are played regularly. Spotify has been a bit of a revelation in being able to try new stuff; but there's a downside too. I've a number of albums bought on recommendation that I hated on first play, but they have gone on to become favourites of mine. We can be too quick to dismiss when something is 'free'.

So I think there is a point where unless it's your trade, (John Peel springs to mind) I think you can have too much - the love of music is replaced by the love of collection, being a 'completivist' or chasing that rare disc. I too sometimes stare blankly at my LP rack and think 'What to listen to next'. Silly I know...

Alex_UK
25-10-2010, 19:10
Great thread, Barry, and congratulations on the three grand mark. Someone once said to me, by the time you reach 40, over 50% of your record collection you will never play again... OK, so that's anecdotal and has no basis in fact (particularly not for genuine music enthusiasts like us) but the principle does, I think, hold true.

Jason makes a very good point - in my early thirties I loved hip-hop - Cypress Hill in particular, but lots of others from the early 2000's. Now, (with the exception of Jay-Z- The Black Album) I can hardly stand to listen to it, and wonder what the hell I saw in it at the time...?

I also think that "collecting" and being a completist is mainly a male thing, and perhaps sometimes (certainly for me) part of the attraction is in having the full set - it was certainly that with three recent examples I can think of - The Beatles remasters, Depeche Mode remasters, and the Café Del Mar series, all of which I just had to have all of...

Which is all going to say that from my point of view, there is definitely an element of having everything by a given artist, and even stuff that I don't listen to often (ever) I can't bear to part with, partly because I like having such a big and diverse collection, and whilst I might not play it now, who knows if my tastes will revert back again in the future... OK, I admit it, I'm a hoarder!

Beechwoods
25-10-2010, 19:33
Great 3000th post Barry. Your dilemma and a few of your experiences ring loudly with my own. I have a collection of CDs on the topside of a thousand, maybe a couple of hundred 'records' and a lot of the kind of recordings that once got called 'bootlegs', but which I like to describe as live audio recordings. I'm definitely at saturation point as far as 'new' music is concerned, but I constantly find myself discovering 'new old' music.

I suppose I'm a completist, in that I go through phases of getting into a band or an artist that I might have had on a compilation or a random album for some time, and then I have to work out chronologically from the release or song I have that I like, to find the others. I'm happy to be obsessive in this regard up to the point where I find that the artist has strayed too far from what I liked about them in the first place. Once upon a time it used to be that I did this with their albums, but now I also have to get their singles and EPs too. The big advantage I have now is that it's very easy to hear everything a band did (via Spotify, Youtube, or LastFM) prior to laying down significant amounts of money on their back catalogue.

I don't go looking for music, but I do find myself listening to stuff that's new to me all the time. I know there is a lot in my collection that does not get listened to much. I am guilty of 'flicking through' an album and forming an immediate first impression that may well damn it to oblivion straight off. Looking back at the records that fall into this category, they are often the ones I bought for the wrong reasons. This sometimes happens because I was 'trying' to understand a particular artist, or because I thought they might have been influential on someone, or (in my younger days ;)) I was buying them basically because someone I knew liked them. There really is very little point trying to fool yourself. These days I'd rather not waste the storage space on something that isn't a keeper.

Like you I find cataloguing my collection frustrating. I've tried to give up any notions of organising my CDs, because I find a simple alphabetical approach too jarring on my organisational sensibilities, and I (like you) find it difficult to pigeonhole artists by genre. So it's all just shelved in a random fashion, and it takes 5 minutes to find anything. It's nice searching though. It helps remind you what you've got!

With the exception of those albums I bought for the wrong reasons, I couldn't get rid of any of my music. Each album is tied up with a history, and I always think I'll settle down and listen to everything again, even if it takes a year... that's what retirement's for isn't it, afterall ;)

The Grand Wazoo
25-10-2010, 20:18
I used to be something of a completist, but I think I've mostly cured that personal trait!
For me, the simple answer is that I don't think I can ever have too much music, because I love to discover something new (even if what I tend to buy is mostly new old as per Nick) & I usually take the view that my life will always be enriched by listening to something different even if I don't like it. I do tend to revisit recordings from all stages of my record buying. I eventually almost always regret selling or passing on something, sooner or later and I made a rule a long time ago to never get rid of any recording unless it's duplicated or I really, really dislike it - I just never know when the fancy might take me, or if I might hear or read something about a related recording that might make me want to investigate a particular artist, cover version or band member etc.
I did have a clear out of duplicates a while back - we bought my daughter a turntable, so she got about 40 or so albums & I sold a few, but I'm still in the process of getting my hands on stuff I used to own.

Grez
25-10-2010, 20:19
@ Barry

No

;)

michaelhigh
26-10-2010, 07:12
I go through spurts. I'll listen to CD's (around 300, alphabetized and easy to locate) for a period of time, then I'll switch to computer downloads. Then I'll switch to LP's (150 tops) for a week or so. I have 1000+ cassettes that make a nice diversion, as that is where my biggest variety is. I also have 40 music DVD's, over 100 VHS tapes full of music video, and assorted 45's and 8 tracks, of all things... I have no problem keeping track. I've only recently started collecting podcasts and internet radio on my favorites feature. Everything is easily accessed, and there's so much that I could never tire of my favorite pastime, listening and enjoying music. Writing and talking online has been an awesome adjunct, as I peruse and chat on at least 10 audio-related sites... I am rather one-sided with music, but it all fits into my plan. I've only recently been performing more with groups so I see that aspect taking precedence in the near future, perhaps after the first of the year. Barry, you said you were retired, am I correct? If so, devise a solid plan for your storage, get the necessary furniture, and find your best organizing method. Take your time and get it right. I for one am pretty detail-oriented, so it comes naturally that there's a place for everything, and everything in it's place. Adopt a system and execute it. Keep acquiring media, after all, variety is still the spice of life. I see myself in my current mode for an indeterminate time period. Not changing any time soon. Keep the enjoyment alive. If you need a break, take up knitting or something mundane and see how quickly you race back to audio! Good luck.

MartinT
26-10-2010, 08:06
I used to have a lot of music oriented Laserdiscs and VHS tapes - all sold now.

Regarding storage, Mike, I can't recommend Ikea Benno towers enough for CD and DVD/Blu-ray storage. They're excellent and inexpensive.

Rare Bird
26-10-2010, 10:03
I used to have a lot of music oriented Laserdiscs and VHS tapes - all sold now.

Regarding storage, Mike, I can't recommend Ikea Benno towers enough for CD and DVD/Blu-ray storage. They're excellent and inexpensive.

Hi Martin:
What are they made from? Do you know if the Red one are bright red as in pillow box red or a deeper red? Do you know what size that cut out is at the back the sits over the Skirting board?

MartinT
26-10-2010, 10:46
The cut-out at the bottom is 70 x 20mm with a radius. They don't fit my skirting boards properly but the slight lean helps stability and I screw them to the wall at the top with the supplied bracket to stop them falling over.

They seem to be made from chipboard and are very nicely finished. Mine are Beech so I can't comment on any other colour. The good thing is that you can keep buying more by widening your existing set and it works very well.

Rare Bird
26-10-2010, 11:10
Thanks Martin
Yeh they only look nice when multiples are strapped togeter, i'll have to make a Jig up for the Router as i need approx 120mm x 20mm cut out for the skirting board.. I can get 10 of these along the wall i plan using..They will look nice with downlights fitted.

MartinT
26-10-2010, 11:22
10 will look like a proper library. Are you planning on red? They will certainly stand out.

Rare Bird
26-10-2010, 12:18
I'm gonna go up at the weekend have a look at the Red & the Black see whats best. We have Ivory walls Black leather sofa & Red furnishings with Natural Oak furnature so any will look ok i guess

Thanks again Martin.

michaelhigh
26-10-2010, 21:52
I'm gonna go up at the weekend have a look at the Red & the Black see whats best. We have Ivory walls Black leather sofa & Red furnishings with Natural Oak furnature so any will look ok i guess

Thanks again Martin.

Can't go wrong with black!

MartinT
27-10-2010, 05:57
My partner went to the Wembley Ikea yesterday and bought some oak Bennos. Said that all shops had completely run out of beech. Perhaps I had better get some more before they have any ideas of withdrawing them :(

Peter Galbavy
27-10-2010, 08:22
The Benno's are excellent for media storage I agree. They did stop them for a while and now brought them back with a new range of colours. Annoying. I have 4 of the lighter colour ones (Beech ?) but no more availavble. I then rought 2 for the bedroom in walnut to try to match the bed, which was close, but they didn't have extra shelves at the time. Sigh. Used spares from the others for now, and full of books (securely bolted to the wall!) you can't see the colour issue.

On the subject of music and is there ever too much ? Well, when I first started buying CDs in the late 80s I remember a conversation with one of the staff at the Virgin near Marble Arch (remember that?) and he was pointing out stuff I might like; "I play this probably once a month" he said, pointing at "This Mortal Coil" I think. I was confused at the time. Was it that bad that he only played it once a month ? Since then I have understood that was great praise for a non-new copy of media, regardless of format ;-)

What has really changed things for me is in-house streaming. I am now wedded to the Squeezebox brand and it makes selecting anything soooooo much easier for casual and occassional listening. It makes a Sunday morning far easier, even if the CDs are only 3 feet away. Hell, not even had a working CD player in the music room for a month now. When I want vinyl it's a bit more involved but not that bad...

I have just started cataloguing my stuff using www.discogs.com and contributing by updates too. A quick "custom URL" entry in my Android phone and I can use the barcode scanner app to match about 50% of my CDs and records. Not a bad hit rate. I then update the rest with the right barcode or in about 10% of the cases enter the whole item into their DB.