My New Techie Basher Turntable :D

[DSJR]

Well, it's arrived and I have to say I've not been so excited about an audio item in years.

The first thing I have to do is thank Adam from the bottom of my boots for packing it so well in layers and layers of bubble wrap -

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/252e68c9.jpg

Lid and first layers off -

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/3f37afef.jpg

Platter off to check idler and lube-state -

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/6a89d4c6.jpg

The idler looked quite flexible still and the mech cycled fine. The trip pawl on the cam gear was a bit "sticky" though (one for later). There is a substantial three core mains lead and a 5 pin DIN socket on the back of the plinth. Adam supplied a very old DIN to phono lead with moulded grey and black phono plugs on and I assumed that black is the right channel (I'll confirm this during the service I'm going to give it)

Right, in the sitting room and ready to "rumble" :lol: I had an M7 headshell ready to go with a Stanton 500A fitted. I set this to track at 2.5grammes..

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/9a079b82.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/234ca2d4.jpg

Note the splendido isolation "cushions" it's sitting on - very Top End... The sacrificial LP is a scratched Thomas Dolby, I have a replacement LP...

The LP's dropped and arm is ready to as well... -

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/6e2c108e.jpg

The tonearm was surprisingly "free" of friction compared to other Garrards of this type and one of the horizontal bearing screws looked like a proper screw with locking piece, rather than the usual looking fixed bearing screw acting on a spring loaded ball -

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/5b77d6e7.jpg

The lack of bias compensation on this generation of the "AT6" series isn't a huge issue for the Stanton conical and the deck wasn't quite level anyway, the slight tilt adding a tiny amount of reverse thrust to the horizontal bearing.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/e922e7c9.jpg

So, what does this ancient bit of audio history sound like? Well, for one thing Marco would love it I'm sure (no pee taking in the back there!!!). The Stanton 500 series has a crude, upfront and INSTANTLY engaging sound very much in the M3D mold. The bass wasn't hugely extended but that doesn't matter. The mid to upper bass was big, ballsy, utterly tuneful and clear, but with the "Garrard" motor breakthrough which 301's and 401's suffer from if not properly plinthed. The main bearing seems not to let itself be known at this point. The Midband was fabulous in terms of rhythm and tune-playing, with a fair amount of atmosphere as well. The treble was distant, but I assume that this is more of the Stanton than anything else. There was certainly no mistracking and definitely no harshness or edge to the sound at all!!!


What really surprises me about this is just how competent this old autochanger really is. It'll be perfect for singles and 78's (with the correct stylus fitted) and played the TD LP with no difficulty in an engaging and listenable way. I appreciate it's possible to get super refined noises out of LP's by throwing many thousands of pounds at the technology, but just how far have we come in sixty years in terms of "musical enjoyment?"

I'm really glad I bought this, even if I won't use it much. I dare not look out for a Lab 80 now though, let alone the RC121 which preceeded these Garrard Autoslim derivatives (the 121 was more strongly engineered - read "tractor-like").

Techie Basher? OH YES INDEEDY!!!!! :guitar: :lolsign:

[ourdogmax]

Stop it , they'll all want one.
This is what pushes the prices of old gear up, another golden oldie out of the bag. :lol:

Old tech is great fun thought isn't it.

[DSJR]

Sad Aspergic git that I am, I remember every click and clonk of the mech as it cycles - I had a 2025TC with the same basic auto innards.

If these things had been made as well as Duals, the PL12D wouldn't have stood a chance against a "blue-printed SP25." The SP25 mkIV actually had a big improvement made on the main bearing - the sintered bushing was full length down the spindle instead of two small ones top and bottom. The rumble figures were significantly better as I remember and the lack of platter-rock made the mech significantly quieter.

[bigmoog]

bet it sounds better than a Linn :eyebrows:

[Barry]

Wahay! - Looks like my old SP25 but with autochange added.

All you need to do now is to fit a Koetsu into that headshell! :lol:

Regards

[keiths]

Oh man - I was given an SP25 III by my cousin when I was 14 and seeing photos of such a similar turntable all these years later brings back all sorts of memories. Got it home and played 'Wish You Were Here' on it. Didn't have an amp or speakers yet - just sat with my ear inches from the stylus :lol:

Must try and score a cheap vintage TT on fleabay sometime. Not had a TT since I sold the Gyrodec due to severe lack of funds a few years ago.

[DSJR]

They're FUN and there are enough about that they're quite cheap.

I took the auto cam off and removed and cleaned the trip pawl. I took a fibre pen-style brush to the sliding parts, keeping these "dry." To be honest (and confirmed by an old Gramophone review of the 3000 'changer), 3 grammes tracking is more like it, especially now the deck is 46 years old. I haven't delved underneath yet, but the sliding part of the auto trip may need looking at from underneath.

I remember owning an SP25 II for a while and fitted an AT95E to it. ABSOLUTE NO-NO! The AT sounds dull, thick and bland in the Garrard. I really think the Stanton 500 is better and possibly the more durable Shure 44's as well. Any of the DJ cartridges really.

P.S. A similar AT95 sounded awful in an SL95 as well (the one with wooden trim on the arm), yet an SL95B I had in the mid 70's tracked a 681EEE beautifully and sounded great too.

[chris@panteg]

Nice one Dave

But my M8 John's SP25 fitted with a Koetsu will take your deck down to chinatown :) as for bashing my modded Techie ' Pah :eyebrows: well it just might .

[Barry]

They're FUN and there are enough about that they're quite cheap.

I took the auto cam off and removed and cleaned the trip pawl. I took a fibre pen-style brush to the sliding parts, keeping these "dry." To be honest (and confirmed by an old Gramophone review of the 3000 'changer), 3 grammes tracking is more like it, especially now the deck is 46 years old. I haven't delved underneath yet, but the sliding part of the auto trip may need looking at from underneath.

I remember owning an SP25 II for a while and fitted with an AT95E to it. ABSOLUTE NO-NO! The AT sounds dull, thick and bland in the Garrard. I really think the Stanton 500 is better and possibly the more durable Shure 44's as well. Any of the DJ cartridges really.

Yep, the SP25/II + Shure M44E was a good combination.

[Beobloke]

Dave,

Glad it all arrived safely and that it's providing such amusement - they are rather fun aren't they?!

As you mention, the grey and black plug lead was rather intriguing - this was actually what came with it when I bought it and I know some Garrard captive signal leads from their 1970s decks had one grey and one brown plug, so there may be some element of originality in it. As to the mains lead, that was one that I put on - the less said about the original the better!

I hope you have fun fettling it. I was sorry to see it go but as I have many other autochangers still left, including a Garrard Lab A, a LAB 80 and a changer variant Zero100, plus two Technics Direct Drive autochangers and an ADC Accutrac +6 to keep me entertained, I'm sure I'll cope! Sadly still no Thorens TD224 though, as I was comprehensively outbid on Sunday...:(

[Thermionic]

Very nice Dave, those were the days. I had a very poor cousin of that with an Acos crystal cartridge while the AT6 was considered very respectable. Though apart from the Lab 80 I also lusted after the 3000LM with its Sonotone ceramic cart.

You know I had quite forgotten, but in the States in those days they didn’t have transcription type turntables and exclusively used autochangers even for the higher end. The American guy upstairs with his big system had a Perpentum Ebener (sp?) changer and was very happy with it - odd.

[DSJR]

Not really Gino, the PE and Dual decks (which eventually melded together) were stunningly well engineered, gradually putting the auto Garrards to shame as time went on. The Dual 1019 from the mid sixties was and still is an amazingly good piece of machinery, gently changing records yet delivering a first class subjective performance still with a suitable midrange cartridge without a fussy stylus type.

The PE's were similarly constructed and significantly over-engineered. The mechs underneath were a work of art, hideously complicated looking, yet reliable I understand. As I said above, after the Lab 80, Garrard went into a decline, the sloppy tolerances of the Autoslim derivatives being carried over into the gorgeous looking but scrappy SL72/75/95/TLX3 models. The AP 76 I had was plagued with the classic (for Garrards) trip pawl problems, yet a pretty well mechanically identical SL95B "Module" I owned later was perfect in this respect (I should have kept this one as the platter barely rocked and the arm was fine).

For proper HiFi grade autochangers which make superbly good single players as well, you can't beat the early to mid 70's Duals. Anything from the 1216 upwards (I don't know the ones under this) is a goodie and I'll never sell my 701, which sounds so good with cartridges it was never designed for... Dual later went the Garrard way and styling took over from the basic engineering for a while. the 505 series looks like a Dual, but the pressed top plate was thinner and the tonearms more resonant in the headshell/headpieces they used. A 505-3 cannot sound better than it does with an Ortofon OM20, anything better being lost, whereas the 701 changes a lot of its character with the cartridge and mat used with it.

By the way Barry, when my Koetsu Black was working on both channels, it sounded incredible in the 701. I wouldn't trust it in the AT6 though :D

[Thermionic]

All interesting Dave and I naturally agree with you about the Duals.

I suppose the point I was making was that the yanks seemed in the 50s and 60s not to revere the ‘transcription’ type (non automatic) turntable as we did.

The PE deck that the guy had upstairs while no doubt nicely engineered looked rather like a BSR Monarch and could not be compared to say a Lenco or Connoisseur (or Dual) of the day. From what I recall of my copy of Audio Engineering for 1951 there were lots of ads for Garrard changers as a Hi-Fi music source and the only single players were battleships for broadcast use.

[SPS]

you lads keep talking about some grand old decks... i have a pe 2020.. its a lovely looking thing.. all brushed stainless... i saw it in my mates place... and he eventually sold it to me... its gone from the top of his wardrobe to my garage loft...

one day...
i would guess its on the lines of the gl75 performance wise..

i would also guess the tone arm is the weak point..

i think i must have a deck fettish...there must be 20 or more around the house

[michaelhigh]

All interesting Dave and I naturally agree with you about the Duals.

I suppose the point I was making was that the yanks seemed in the 50s and 60s not to revere the ‘transcription’ type (non automatic) turntable as we did.

The PE deck that the guy had upstairs while no doubt nicely engineered looked rather like a BSR Monarch and could not be compared to say a Lenco or Connoisseur (or Dual) of the day. From what I recall of my copy of Audio Engineering for 1951 there were lots of ads for Garrard changers as a Hi-Fi music source and the only single players were battleships for broadcast use.

I own a rather beat-up Dual 1225 that's autofunction is awry; but from hanging out on the AudioKarma site I met a guy there they call bohhey who lives in Ohio. He is regarded as THE Dual expert, and for roughly $135+ US (S/H and parts extra) he can overhaul any Dual, regardless of condition, and this man's reputation for quality packing and reliable service comes very highly-recommended. Heads-up to anyone who needs an old fave idler worked on...Tell him michaelhigh sent you and maybe he'll discount my service call:lol: (heh)...

[DSJR]

The Dual cueing lift-pin has two adjustments, one on the top plate for users and another finger nut around the pin itself. if these get messed up the mech won't function properly.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/DSCF0512.jpg

The other famous part is the "Steurpimpel," which is a rubber cap on the spring loaded friction pin that is pushed and pulled by the mech when cycling. Failure of this part, which happened ten years ago on my 701, causes the arm not to move back and forth when cycling. I "repaired" mine by fining a ball-pen refill tube of the correct diameter, trimming it to shape and pressing over the end of the friction pin. The 701 has worked flawlessly since then.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/DSCF0344_modifiedliftingpin.jpg

Apart from arm-mass, which is desirable these days, the old PE deck may well be an excellent machine as long as the idler hasn't gone off and the motor doesn't vibrate..

[jandl100]

Oh my gosh - this thread is a bit of a downer for me, I'm afraid. :(

Reminds me too much of grey-skied, rainy interminable Sunday afternoons when I was a nipper, for some reason! :lol:

But I'm glad that the rest of you are having fun. ;)

[DSJR]

Be warned, these Garrards breed.....

I've just bought an AT60mk2 in plinth for the hugely sum of 99p! It "features" bias correction and a cueing device...

Hi-Res Beatles memory stick? Forget it! the ONLY way to hear their early recordings is on an early 60's record player :lol:

[Beobloke]

Be warned, these Garrards breed.....

I've just bought an AT60mk2 in plinth for the hugely sum of 99p! It "features" bias correction and a cueing device...


Good man -well done! :)

Oh, and pictures please, or it didn't happen......

[DSJR]

It hasn't arrived yet, but there'll be foaties as soon as it's here.