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View Full Version : My trip to Martin's to assess the Mike New platter for the SL-1200/1210



Marco
15-10-2010, 23:47
[This report will be in two parts, with the second part posted tomorrow].

Last Saturday I had the pleasure of going down to Martin T's for a music sesh and to hear his excellent system again (see Martin's signature for details), not to mention the effect of Mike New's platter on his SL-1210 (and mine) and have a squint at his utterly gorgeous Dynavector tonearm!

I took down my own Techie, fitted with the Ortofon SPU, a Paul Hynes SR3 and SR5-21 PSU, my A23 SUT, some Mark Grant G2000HD interconnects, DSP 2.5 Furutech-upgraded mains leads, and some records.

The results were very interesting indeed.....

When I sat down to listen, cup of freshly brewed coffee in hand, Martin was playing (I think) some Steely Dan on the Techie, and as I was listening I thought to myself: 'there's something not quite right here'.

There was undoubtedly a great sound trying to break free, but it was being held in check by a muddled quality in the bass and a rather peculiar slurring of notes and wavering of pitch, as a result of what was to my ears the effect of speed instability - rather as if the existing PSU (Sound Hi-fi's standard Timestep) had the inability to supply the motor mechanism with sufficient current to maintain the platter at the correct speed.

Measurably this may have been miniscule or non-existent, but it was an effect I could clearly hear, although I had an idea how to sort it. However at that stage I didn't say anything to Martin about what I was hearing, intending instead to point it out to him later after I had made the change I was about to do.

Before I get to that, however, one thing I want to make abundantly clear is that the standard Timestep PSU of Martin's could not be blamed in any way for what I was hearing. Dave Cawley always said that if a heavyweight platter was used with the SL-1200 (such as Mike New's one), the SE version of the Timestep must be fitted instead to cope with the extra mass of the heavy platter - and he was absolutely right.

I have no doubt whatsoever that I would not have heard what I did had the Timestep SE been in situ instead. This is something that people should consider very carefully if upgrading to the Mike New platter. Moreover, the standard Timestep PSU does NOT exhibit the same characteristics when used with the stock platter on the SL-1200/1210, where it is indeed sonically superb in that application.

With this in mind, therefore, I suggested to Martin that we first of all connect the Paul Hynes SR3 PSU to his turntable and see what would happen.

When we listened to the same track again, within the first few notes there was a notable improvement, which both Martin and I commented on. Gone was the wavering of pitch I heard before and any sense that the deck was suffering from the effects of speed instability. Now music was 'locked into focus' and rendered with the rhythmic drive and intensity which the Technics is renowned for. There was also a subjectively lower noise floor, and with it, increased detail retrieval.

Therefore, for those considering a high-quality off-board PSU for the SL-1200/1210 (particularly for use with Mike New's platter), and who can't quite stretch to the SR5-21, the SR3 is a very worthy option.

It was now time to press the SR5-21 into action, which is a truly massive PSU for a turntable (about a similar size and weight to a Naim Hi-Cap, possibly slightly bigger). It has a huge toroidal transformer inside big enough to be used in most power amps!

Again the same track was played ('The Dan' were getting rather monotonous now, but we were keen to keep the rest of the variables the same!), and so we sat back and listened.... The sonic improvement this time was quite frankly astonishing, and the resultant standard of music reproduction in an entirely different league :wow:

This time not only was there not the slightest trace of any wavering of pitch or speed instability, but the sound had become bigger, with a greater sense of purpose, due in no small amount to the sheer verve and 'heft' the SR5-21 invoked on proceedings, together with a 'hear through' quality that allowed the music to ebb and flow with syncopating rhythm, and which defined high frequency information with a rather disarming crystalline clarity.

Bass was both deeper and tighter, and the midrange and top end shone like a beacon of light piercing through the inky blackness of a night sky, aided in no small measure by the perception of a vanishingly low noise floor which allowed one to discern the subtlest of musical cues. Martin's SL-1210 was now producing a standard of sound from vinyl the likes of which I had never heard before.

In short, the SR5-21 PSU, the sonic talents of which I already knew from hearing it at work in my own system, had made one of the biggest improvements to the SL-1210 I had heard so far in all my years of using it. But there was more still to come - MUCH MORE - and that would be realised when I analysed in isolation the sonic effect of the Mike New platter on my own T/T, which would make me realise, even when modified to this level, just how much more latent sonic potential the SL-1200/1210 still had to offer.......

I must get to bed now, as I'm up early for the Manchester hi-fi show tomorrow. Part 2 of my report will be continued upon my return.

Don't miss it, folks, as I promise it'll make for intriguing reading, not to mention the revealing of a totally FREE tweak for the Technics, Mike New platter aside, that totally transformed the sound of my T/T and astounded me!! ;)

Steve (Snoopdog) also made an appearance during this part of the session, and it was good to meet him again, where both Martin and he heard what happened when my SPU was unleashed and fitted onto Martin's Dynavector, in conjunction with the A23 SUT, producing a sonic combination that had us in utter rapture, redefining just what is possible from music on the vinyl format.....

Laters,
Marco.

MartinT
16-10-2010, 06:12
I won't spoil Marco's part 2 article, suffice to say that the Paul Hynes SR5-21 power supply made such an impact on my system that I now have one on order from PH. There is no doubt that the MN platter requires a beefy PSU and this should be costed in when contemplating the MN platter upgrade.

My deck now has the MN bearing, platter and base plate upgrades, as well as motor dynamics mod, Isonoe feet and Bruil weight.

The evening got better, so over to you, Marco.

Marco
16-10-2010, 06:30
No worries, Martin. I'm just having my breakfast, and chilling for a bit, before leaving for the show.

Until I get back and finish the report, perhaps as an interlude, you could post some 'audiophile porn' by showing what the SPU looks like on the end of your marvel of tonearm engineering? ;)

Marco.

P.S Could you also do me a favour and list the music we played from your collection, particularly that, was it Harry Belafonte LP from 1959? That was one of the finest recordings I've ever heard, period, proving that in comparison CD is very much the poor relation.

Cheers, matey! :cool:

MartinT
16-10-2010, 06:41
Photo of my Dynavector with Marco's Ortofon SPU head. Note the counterweight way back, aided only by the 4g tracking weight from falling off! In reality, there is a heavier weight in the arm's set but I couldn't be bothered to rummage around in the garage for it. Just to the left you can see the big SR5 PSU standing on its side.

This combination sounded . . . utterly sublime!

http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/dynaSPU.jpg

MartinT
16-10-2010, 06:47
Some of the music we listened to (in no particular order):

Harry Belafonte - Live in Concert at the Carnegie Hall (1959 and a fabulous recording)
Rickie Lee Jones - eponymous
Rickie Lee Jones - Girl at her Volcano EP
Frank Sinatra - Sinatra at the Sands (Marco brought it along and I now have it too)
Steely Dan - Gaucho
Jeff Buckley - Sketches for My Sweetheart The Drunk
Grace Jones - Nightclubbing
The Eagles - Hotel California

Marco
16-10-2010, 06:57
http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/dynaSPU.jpg

Hahaha... That looks so outrageously 'industrial' and OTT, but man, did it do the biz! :eek:

Marco.

YNWaN
16-10-2010, 12:31
Am I missing something? This seems to be about power suppplies rather than platters.

I have to say that I am entirely unconvinced by the supposed benefit of raising platter mass.

MartinT
16-10-2010, 13:06
The platter is the mod which makes the high quality of sound we heard achievable. Matching it up with the right power supply was the natural thing to do being as we had three different ones between us.

As for the benefits of the new platter, the proof was in the listening. I doubt that all that we heard was a result of just high platter mass, the material that Mike New uses contributes to its high degree of 'deadness'.

YNWaN
16-10-2010, 13:52
Presumbaly you felt it was an improvement before the power supply was changed?

MartinT
16-10-2010, 14:06
Presumbaly you felt it was an improvement before the power supply was changed?

Oh yes, of course. I've been running the MN platter for a couple of months now and we also swapped it over to Marco's deck for listening. The Technics platter rings like a bell without a mat on it and you can hear those resonances and colourations quite clearly.

Marco
16-10-2010, 18:19
Hi Mark,


Am I missing something? This seems to be about power suppplies rather than platters.


Yes... The clue is in here (see bits in bold):


In short, the SR5-21 PSU, the sonic talents of which I already knew from hearing it at work in my own system, had made one of the biggest improvements to the SL-1210 I had heard so far in all my years of using it. But there was more still to come - MUCH MORE - and that would be realised when I analysed in isolation the sonic effect of the Mike New platter on my own T/T, which would make me realise, even when modified to this level, just how much more latent sonic potential the SL-1200/1210 still had to offer.......

I must get to bed now, as I'm up early for the Manchester hi-fi show tomorrow. Part 2 of my report will be continued upon my return.


It's a two-part review! And the bit about the platter is in part 2 :eyebrows:

However, the second part of the review won't be posted until tomorrow, as I'm just in from the Manchester hi-fi show and knackered after travelling miles going round in detours and sitting in queuing traffic, as they decided to shut part of the bloody M56!! :steam:


I have to say that I am entirely unconvinced by the supposed benefit of raising platter mass.

And, if you remember, so was I. However, it turns out that my scepticism in this instance was unwarranted ;)

All will be revealed tomorrow!

Marco.

colinB
16-10-2010, 18:27
Look forward to part 2:)

Im curious how the PSU was swapped out so easily when, as far as i know the DC lead has to be soldered inside the techy onto its PCB.:scratch:

Marco
16-10-2010, 18:33
Hi Colin,

You don't touch that part of the lead, mate. It's the other end of the DC lead that connects into the back of the power supply (either the Timestep, SR3 or SR5-21) that's plugged in or unplugged when changing PSUs :)

Marco.

colinB
16-10-2010, 18:45
:doh::o

Reid Malenfant
16-10-2010, 18:54
I think from what i have been reading that once i get all other projects out of the way i'll be modifying my Aiwa AP2600 :eyebrows:

PSU isn't a problem as i can design & build my own :) When i fit new stuff in this rack of mine i'll pull everything out for cleaning & i'll get some pictures of the deck & see if you chaps reckon it'll be easy or not to fit a new tonearm.

The platter is pretty heavy on it's own, the deck itself must weigh about 3 or more stone :eek:

I'll be open to suggestions ;)

Interesting reading Marco, keep it up chap & i'm also interested in reading Pt 2 :)

E2A:- Jeez, half of AoS is on google images :lol: Just type in the following & scroll down:- aiwa AP2600 image

I nearly pissed myself laughing :eyebrows:

Still virtually no pictures of my deck on the net though :scratch:

Alex_UK
16-10-2010, 19:22
E2A:- Jeez, half of AoS is on google images :lol: Just type in the following & scroll down:- aiwa AP2600 image

I nearly pissed myself laughing :eyebrows:

That is very funny! :lol:

Marco
16-10-2010, 19:27
Soz, call me thick, but I don't get it.... :scratch:

Marco.

YNWaN
16-10-2010, 19:52
Hmm............

Reid Malenfant
16-10-2010, 20:03
Soz, call me thick, but I don't get it.... :scratch:

Marco.
Hi Marco, apologies but i found it mildly amusing simply because there is naff all information out there on this deck of mine. I went searching for a decent image & all i got was AoS stuff. This was no doubt because i own one & post on here, so all sort of AoS images came up ;)

The only info i could find is about as much as i know myself which is here (http://www.audiokarma.org/forums//showthread.php?t=236341).

Naturally i want to find out more, the chap that posted that thread wasn't underestimating the weight of either the platter or the deck itself :eyebrows:

Obviously i'm not wanting to make the tread drift but i would certainly like to find out more about what i have here & possible modifications that will benefit the thing. Hense my posting on here in the first place :)


Hmm............
You do a lot of that Mark, care to hum a tune ;)

Marco
16-10-2010, 20:08
Hahaha... I just don't see the connection between the report on my trip to Martin's, an "aiwa AP2600", and AoS and Google Images...........

Would someone care to explain? :)

Marco.

Reid Malenfant
16-10-2010, 20:12
Hahaha... I just don't see the connection between the report on my trip to Martin's, an "aiwa AP2600", and AoS and Google Images...........

Would someone care to explain? :)

Marco.
Direct drive turntable modifications...

Marco
16-10-2010, 20:14
Hi Mark,


Hi Marco, apologies but i found it mildly amusing simply because there is naff all information out there on this deck of mine. I went searching for a decent image & all i got was AoS stuff. This was no doubt because i own one & post on here, so all sort of AoS images came up ;)

The only info i could find is about as much as i know myself which is here (http://www.audiokarma.org/forums//showthread.php?t=236341).

Naturally i want to find out more, the chap that posted that thread wasn't underestimating the weight of either the platter or the deck itself :eyebrows:

Obviously i'm not wanting to make the tread drift but i would certainly like to find out more about what i have here & possible modifications that will benefit the thing. Hense my posting on here in the first place :)


You do a lot of that Mark, care to hum a tune ;)


Direct drive turntable modifications...


Well... I didn't even know an "aiwa AP2600" was a direct-drive turntable! :eyebrows:

Lol, anyway - gotcha now, Mark! It was just the way you 'announced' it in the middle of commenting about my trip to Martin's. I didn't get the connection.

Marco.

chris@panteg
16-10-2010, 20:22
One thing i would like to ask Martin ' did you notice the pitch wavering prior to this sesh or is Marco much more sensitive.

Very good write up Marco ' quite superb really ,are you thinking of getting Mike's platter or holding out to see Dave's.

Marco
16-10-2010, 20:25
Hi Chris,

Thanks, mate.

Martin will no doubt answer that himself. As for the other bit, watch this space - that's all I can say at the moment! ;)

Marco.

Reid Malenfant
16-10-2010, 20:28
Well... I didn't even know an "aiwa AP2600" was a direct-drive turntable! :eyebrows:

Lol, anyway - gotcha now, Mark! It was just the way you 'announced' it in the middle of commenting about my trip to Martin's. I didn't get the connection.

Marco.
Apologies, my bad :doh:

There is really no info out there about the thing, but obviously because we are talking a similar system (quartz lock direct drive) it got me interested ;)

As i say though i'd be fascinated to find out if this deck could be modified to accept a new tonearm etc. I'm not sure the platter needs to be heavier :lol:

Apologies for the thread drift, i'll shut up & read you review Pt 2 with interest :)

Marco
16-10-2010, 20:56
Nowt to apologise for, matey - it's all part of the cycle of entertainment! ;)

Marco.

YNWaN
16-10-2010, 21:47
You do a lot of that Mark, care to hum a tune ;)

Hmm............................................... .......................m




;)

Alex_UK
16-10-2010, 21:56
I know that one! Crash Test Dummies!?

Marco
16-10-2010, 21:59
So do I, and I think it has 'hum-ina, hum-ina' in it somewhere and some heavy breathing..... :eyebrows:

Marco.

MartinT
16-10-2010, 23:40
One thing i would like to ask Martin ' did you notice the pitch wavering prior to this sesh or is Marco much more sensitive.

Good question, Chris. To me, the PSU differences manifested themselves somewhat differently. I wasn't really aware of a low level pitch wavering then or now (I was listening for it this afternoon), as Marco heard. For me, the killer difference with the SR5 especially is the attack and start/stop characteristic of notes and the extraordinary width and depth to the soundstage. Marco and I obviously hear slightly differently and there is also the fact that I am much more familiar with my system than he is, meaning that he can possibly hear things that my brain has just accepted.

MartinT
16-10-2010, 23:42
I'll be open to suggestions ;)

Mark, see if you can get hold of a service manual and especially a circuit diagram. We'll all chip in to a different thread and help you get the PSU right for the Aiwa.

Marco
16-10-2010, 23:48
Marco and I obviously hear slightly differently and there is also the fact that I am much more familiar with my system than he is, meaning that he can possibly hear things that my brain has just accepted.


Yup, I'd say that was an accurate and fair observation. If ever a T/T was crying out for an SR5-21, though - it's yours! There audio nirvana lies....;)

Marco.

MartinT
16-10-2010, 23:52
If ever a T/T was crying out for an SR5-21, though - it's yours! There audio nirvana lies....;)

Audio nirvana is coming my way around mid-November, according to Paul Hynes' work schedule :)

chris@panteg
17-10-2010, 00:58
Am I missing something? This seems to be about power suppplies rather than platters.

I have to say that I am entirely unconvinced by the supposed benefit of raising platter mass.

Mark ' i don't think its really a question of extra mass being a benefit ' in fact i or anyone else for that matter cannot be sure if it is ? but the SP10 mk3 has a platter weighing around 9 kg and requires a very beefy psu .

A friend of mine (Paul) has just bought a Tommy Hornings design ' with a very high mass platter , with an SME V (Kondo wired) and EMT cartridge , and astonishingly he has an Audionote IO gold sat in his draw:eek:.

I'm very keen to hear this as i still think a Lexan platter like in the Voyd was better, but who know's.

YNWaN
17-10-2010, 06:55
I've just reduced the mass of the platter on my deck (though the flywheel effect is still quite high).

It's not a Techics 1200/10 though.

DSJR
17-10-2010, 11:07
The Techies and many other direct drives that were reviewed for this almost all showed a feedback sensitivity in the mid bass (80Hz) region and this at its worst used to give the characteristic "thick toned" bass of so many of these decks at the time.

I'm sure that today, with better supports dramatically improving isolation, this bass issue can be readily tamed. Adding mass to the platter is one way of re-tuning things, but surely someone will do a complete new base to fix the remaining Techie bits (coil assemblies mostly I suspect) to.

Reid Malenfant
17-10-2010, 13:03
Mark, see if you can get hold of a service manual and especially a circuit diagram. We'll all chip in to a different thread and help you get the PSU right for the Aiwa.
:lol: All i can find is people asking questions, there is no information out there that i can find :doh:

If push comes to shove i'll trace out the circuit myself, it wouldn't be the first time :rolleyes:

Anyway, this is all future stuff so back to the subject at hand ;)

Marco
17-10-2010, 14:43
Some of the music we listened to (in no particular order):

Harry Belafonte - Live in Concert at the Carnegie Hall (1959 and a fabulous recording)
Rickie Lee Jones - eponymous
Rickie Lee Jones - Girl at her Volcano EP
Frank Sinatra - Sinatra at the Sands (Marco brought it along and I now have it too)
Steely Dan - Gaucho
Jeff Buckley - Sketches for My Sweetheart The Drunk
Grace Jones - Nightclubbing
The Eagles - Hotel California

Btw, just to add to the list of some of the music I remember we listened to that I brought down:

Stevie Ray Vaughan & Double Trouble - Couldn't Stand the Weather.

Shirley Bassey - The Fabulous Shirley Bassey (original album on Columbia from 1959).

[The recording quality on this album is fabulous (like the Harry Belafonte of Martin's) and in comparison puts to shame most of the crap produced nowadays!]

Nina Simone - Wild is the Wind.

The Robert Cray Band - False Accusations.

If I remember anything else, I'll add it to the list :)

Incidentally, due to other commitments, it's looking like part 2 of the review will now be posted tomorrow.

Marco.

Marco
17-10-2010, 15:08
Just to pick up on a point Mark (RM) made earlier:


Hi Marco, apologies but i found it mildly amusing simply because there is naff all information out there on this deck of mine. I went searching for a decent image & all i got was AoS stuff. This was no doubt because i own one & post on here, so all sort of AoS images came up...


Yep, and it's a reflection of our Google rankings these days :)

So always remember that what you write here is liable to be read by a great deal of people! ;)

Marco.

Marco
17-10-2010, 18:25
Hi Dave,

Your last post has been made into a separate thead and moved into Analogue Art:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8055

I will get to it later! :)

Marco.

Snoopdog
23-10-2010, 09:07
Did I miss Part II?

MartinT
23-10-2010, 11:41
Did I miss Part II?

Nope. We're working on Marco-timing ;)

Snoopdog
23-10-2010, 14:46
Nope. We're working on Marco-timing ;)

:)

Marco
28-10-2010, 15:38
Sorry, chaps - went up to Glasgow for a week to visit friends and family... I'm back now, so look out for part 2 in the next couple of days once I've caught up with things! :cool:

Marco.

DSJR
28-10-2010, 20:19
Hope your cats were looked after properly this time...

The Vinyl Adventure
28-10-2010, 20:39
Went to Glasgow eh ... Hmm seems a bit sus considering the recent footage in a Charlie Chaplin film

Beechwoods
29-10-2010, 07:00
Nah, too short. Other than that though, it does bear a striking resemblance.

anthonyTD
29-10-2010, 08:54
come to think of it,,, that dress does seem familier:eek::lol::lolsign:
welcome back dafftee!
Anthony,TD...