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Jason P
14-10-2010, 23:42
After reading about these on another forum (*cough*wam) I decided, in a fit of group induced exitement, to take the plunge and get one. Ten outputs, one high-current one for amps, and the rest filtered for either digital or analogue kit, along with a slew of network/satellite connectors and a fancy front display. What's not to love, for £45 delivered?

Well when it got here, the first thought was 'Oh ****... where am I going to put that?' Followed closely by SWMBO saying '****! Where do you think you're putting that?' (nothing new there then, I hear you say...). This thing is big - think large power amp big - with rackmount ears if wanted and leads included that would probably cost as much as the price alone.

Soooo - a brief check to see if it's all working - mmm, sounds...different. Anyway, it's fine so half an hour later, with much grunting and puffing, the rack is extended and it's in. Power up, amp on and off to make a cuppa while the old tubes glow.

Now I wasn't expecting much. To be honest I'dve been happy if it just did nothing to the sound. The Tacima block I'd bought a while back seemed to clear up the sound a tad as long as I didn't plug the amp in. If it had been detrimental, I would have relegated it to studio duties in the edit suite.

But blow me, this delivered, and how. First thing my GF said was 'wow - everything is soo much clearer, and the bass is better too' - and I have to agree with her. Bass is better defined, and mid-range separation and clarity have definitely improved. No reduction in dynamics and a neater rack to boot.

Build quality is OK - it has a reasonably heavy chassis, but is a bit plasticky - and some people have reported faults out of the box (a wiring fault that reports as a false earth fault) but I think that may have been a dodgy batch. Mine seems fine, touch wood.

I'd thought about buying an Isotek MiniSub (5 or 6 outputs) but these go for the £400 mark and I really couldn't justify it. For a tenth of the price I have something that has made a noticeable difference in sound quality - possibly one of the biggest in terms of holistic improvement (i.e across the board, rahter than just one area) that I've experienced.

Most PF40s have sold out now (save for a few at silly prices - it was around £400 a while ago), but the smaller PF30 seems to still be available in some quarters - filtering is the same AFIAK but with 5 outputs and no fancy display, for around 20 quid. You can't buy a decent 5-way for that.

I'm a very happy bunny, but as always YMMV - some have reported no difference, but it seems that if you're in the sticks and your mains is a bit iffy - it's worth a punt.

Jason

chris@panteg
15-10-2010, 00:31
I do believe Jerry bought one of these ' well if it works for you then great:)

Barry
15-10-2010, 00:59
I do believe Jerry bought one of these ' well if it works for you then great:)

Yep! At £45 you should have no quibbles or complaint.

I have a Claude-Lyons 1.2kW mains conditioner; weighs a ton and is built like a brick out-house. Cost about £200 five years ago - I picked it up gratis from work as it was 'surplus to requirements'. Unfortunately, or fortunately, the mains around here is pretty good and I have found no real need to use it. Probably just as well, as it's about a cubic foot in size.

Regards

ClasseAudio
15-10-2010, 01:08
These do help clean up your sound. Not all will agree or need them depending on their current power conditions. One thing that is nice aobut these is that there are outlets designed for high current gear. No more plugging in everything to the PC and then the amp in the wall for full power. Thanks goodness for the dimmer on the front as well, while watching movies the blue light can be pretty dang bright. Overall though, a great bang for the buck addition.

I did try much more ecpensive PC and the only one that I could tell a difference with was a PS Audio PC (by a very slight margin). I had both PC at the same time and could not see or hear a $500.00 difference so back went the PS Audio.

moo-fi
15-10-2010, 05:56
I picked one up while they were available at silly money, if nothing else it has sort out my pile of cables into something less resembling a birds nest. It has also stopped a lot of of noise on the system. Using homeplugs to stream was always going to cause a few problems but running the necessary cat 5 cable wasn't an option.
The sound is different, still not sure if it is better, but it certainly isn't worse though the other half was a little surprised at the size of my new surge plug:lol:

Marco
15-10-2010, 09:07
Nice one, Jason - always good to hear when a 'tweak' like this works. Could we have a picture of the beast in question? :)

chris@panteg
15-10-2010, 09:12
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31BqT38ifqL._SS500_.jpg

chris@panteg
15-10-2010, 09:14
http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/rv/s/f/1164293595.jpg

chris@panteg
15-10-2010, 09:16
i guess that's a pretty serious bit of kit for £46

Marco
15-10-2010, 09:21
Yes, one wonders why it's only £46..................? :scratch:

Marco.

Jason P
15-10-2010, 09:24
i guess that's a pretty serious bit of kit for £46

My thoughts exactly, I'm not sure I'd be too happy to pay the £400-odd quid it was when current ('scuse the pun) but for that money, it's an absolute steal. Having seen what some of the Isotek boxes have in them (or rather don't have in them) this is certainly VFM.

Hopefully it'll last - and as it says on the box, it has a lifetime warranty and indemnity for any mains-bound damage to the tune of £200k!!!

I think one of the reasons that it's made such a difference to me is the fact that I have a right old mix of old and relatively new mains (being a house that's been extended a few times) and we're in an area prone to power cuts being a bit out in the sticks. Interestingly, the mains round here fluctuates from 220-235 volts - I didn't think it would be that much!

Jason

The Grand Wazoo
15-10-2010, 09:28
They were a lot more at one time - £350-400 I think. No longer in production though (could be wrong here).
Also available in black.

Marco
15-10-2010, 09:41
Ah, so it was a second-hand purchase.... :doh:

I thought it was some 'bargain buy' new item on the market - well you never know these days with the cost of producing electronic equipment coming down all the time.

Marco.

Ali Tait
15-10-2010, 10:11
The PF30 looks cheap enough on Amazon.Any good?

The Grand Wazoo
15-10-2010, 12:14
Ah, so it was a second-hand purchase.... :doh:

I thought it was some 'bargain buy' new item on the market - well you never know these days with the cost of producing electronic equipment coming down all the time.

Marco.

It's not 2nd hand Marco, I don't think. It's a 'bargain buy' end of the line item.

moo-fi
15-10-2010, 13:20
They are all new end of range, although some of them have been wired incorrectly at the plug. Good value at the £37 I paid but I wouldn't have paid retail for it.

Jason P
15-10-2010, 14:47
New as a new thing Marco, as the others have said. I think there were a few hundred 'dumped' on the market as end-of-line. Retailed as Chris said for around 400 notes before being discontinued.

Ali Tait
15-10-2010, 15:31
Any left?

Reid Malenfant
15-10-2010, 15:42
Any left?
I was wondering that to, but i decided not to ask :eyebrows:

Ali Tait
15-10-2010, 15:56
Worth a punt at that price!

Alex_UK
15-10-2010, 17:49
How about £20.99 for the PF30 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110560141797&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_1262wt_648) - free p&P - B.I.N.? Rude not to, so I did! (feedback isn't perfect, but if you're selling that much every month there are bound to be a few problems...)

Reid Malenfant
15-10-2010, 17:55
Aye, rude not to :eyebrows: There will soon be only 9 left ;)

Ali Tait
15-10-2010, 17:58
Aye,asked the question earlier.Let us know how you get on Alex.

Reid Malenfant
15-10-2010, 18:00
Cheers Alex, i'll sort you a beer or two if we meet ;)

Damn i love sellers that leave feedback as soon as you buy something :lol:

Alex_UK
15-10-2010, 18:07
Cheers chaps! Will be an interesting experiment for not much dosh! :cool:

Ali Tait
15-10-2010, 18:12
8 left now... :lolsign:

Reid Malenfant
15-10-2010, 18:14
8 left now... :lolsign:
I can just imagine the seller wondering how come there is a sudden run on sales of these things :eyebrows:

Little does he know....

:lolsign:

Alex_UK
15-10-2010, 18:14
:lol:

(Lovin' the "name", too Ali - like I always say at work when we're designing input screens - just because a field is compulsory it doesn't mean you'll get the information in it that you actually want! :D)

Ali Tait
15-10-2010, 18:54
:lolsign: You're the first to notice!

The Grand Wazoo
15-10-2010, 19:47
He isn't!

Alex_UK
15-10-2010, 19:56
Good job Chris doesn't use smileys as I fear you may have got some steam! ;)

You've started a trend, I see - well I've already jumped on the Belkin bandwagon... :)

Ali Tait
15-10-2010, 20:05
Society will stagnate without rebels and change...

Jason P
16-10-2010, 09:29
Be interesting to see how the 30 compares. I understand it's the same filtering as the 40, just less in the socketry dept. Oh and no fancy voltage display, which I think on balance is a good thing - no more anxiety when you see the display climbing - 'My god, she'll nae take anymore Captain...'

Jason

Ali Tait
16-10-2010, 09:35
Aye,well I succumbed last night and got one too.Got to be worth a punt at that price!

Reid Malenfant
18-10-2010, 16:20
Anyone interested in one of the Belkin PF40 should take a look here & be quick about it :eyebrows: Linky (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120635585380&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT) Ok, so not £46 but 1st class recoded delivery for free can't be bad ;)

There were 2 a little while ago, someone must have bought the other one :whistle:


:eyebrows:

Barry
18-10-2010, 17:18
Anyone interested in one of the Belkin PF40 should take a look here & be quick about it :eyebrows: Linky (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120635585380&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT) Ok, so not £46 but 1st class recoded delivery for free can't be bad ;)

There were 2 a little while ago, someone must have bought the other one :whistle:


:eyebrows:

Based on the photos supplied by Chris (@panteg), showing the superb build quality (posts 7 and 8), at that price I couldn't resist, so have just bought the last one.

Regards

Reid Malenfant
18-10-2010, 17:24
Based on the photos supplied by Chris (@panteg), showing the superb build quality (posts 7 and 8), at that price I couldn't resist, so have just bought the last one.

Regards
That's why i put the link up, so someone could take advantage of it ;)

All the best Barry :)

Barry
18-10-2010, 17:32
That's why i put the link up, so someone could take advantage of it ;)

All the best Barry :)

Hi Mark,

Sorry - I should have acknowledged and thanked you for providing the link. :)

Thanks Mark

Regards

Alex_UK
18-10-2010, 17:34
Well done Barry, and thanks - you just saved me £64! (And having to explain another parcel, given that I've ordered a PF30... :))

Reid Malenfant
18-10-2010, 17:42
Barry, keep an eye open on your ebay messages, the seller just contacted me RE pick up or posting. He says he'll post tomorrow if that's what i require :)

You don't need to thank me chap :eyebrows: Cheers anyway ;)

HighFidelityGuy
18-10-2010, 21:12
I've just stumbled across this thread. I fancy try one or three of the PF30's seen as they're still super cheap (I have a lot of things to power). Has anybody else got their PF30/40 working yet? I'm interested to know if you felt it provided any benefit to sound quality. Cheers.

Alex_UK
18-10-2010, 21:27
I've just stumbled across this thread. I fancy try one or three of the PF30's seen as they're still super cheap (I have a lot of things to power). Has anybody else got their PF30/40 working yet? I'm interested to know if you felt it provided any benefit to sound quality. Cheers.

Not received mine yet - we're all trusting Jason's observations in post #1!

moo-fi
18-10-2010, 21:41
Had mine just over a week, it does make a difference though it isn't massive. The best thing it does do is stops the mains interference I have been suffering as a high pitch hum from the speakers. I thought it was a cable issue but the system has been really quiet since the filter has gone in.

Alex_UK
18-10-2010, 21:45
To be honest, for twenty quid all I am expecting is neater cables, and some piece of mind if the house gets struck by lightning... Anything more than that will be a bonus. If for any reason it sounds utterly horrid, and it doesn't work in my AV setup either, then I'll flog it on ebay and probably get my money back.

HighFidelityGuy
18-10-2010, 21:46
Not received mine yet - we're all trusting Jason's observations in post #1!

Ok, thanks Alex.


Had mine just over a week, it does make a difference though it isn't massive. The best thing it does do is stops the mains interference I have been suffering as a high pitch hum from the speakers. I thought it was a cable issue but the system has been really quiet since the filter has gone in.

Thanks Fred, that sounds promising. How did you have your system wired to the mains before you got the Belkin unit? Thanks.

moo-fi
18-10-2010, 22:21
Dedicated mains spur feeding a bank of four plugs these then fed the AV via MK four way trailing socket, Krell and Linn DS directly from wall supply and the turntable and phono stage from another MK four way trailing socket. So not to bad, now I am using just one feeding the PF40 which also has the sat signal and network cable passing through it.
I started off thinking I had lost some bass but it is actually cleaning and when a deep note appears you really know it. The odd thing is the imagery is better as well and that I cannot think of a reason for.

colinB
18-10-2010, 22:38
Apart from the read out , what is the difference between the 30 and the 40 model?

Alex_UK
18-10-2010, 22:42
Number of outlets Colin, I believe - the PF30 has 5, the PF40 13 :eek: ?

colinB
18-10-2010, 22:47
5 probably wouldnt be enough for me. Im thinking of taking a punt on a used 40 on e bay. I certainly noticed a difference with the noise floor using a Merlin block and that has no filters. I did have a Isotek block but noticed no difference with that.

Jason P
19-10-2010, 08:30
5 probably wouldnt be enough for me. Im thinking of taking a punt on a used 40 on e bay. I certainly noticed a difference with the noise floor using a Merlin block and that has no filters. I did have a Isotek block but noticed no difference with that.


Like I said, I think there may be a few secondhand 40s on the 'Wam soon - as with all these 'fads' there are people who benefit (like myself) and people who don't. In my case the improvement is tangible and not trivial - but YMMV, as the yanks would say. Oh and BTW, the 40 has 10 sockets.

J

Alex_UK
19-10-2010, 08:52
Apologies for misleading people on the sockets for the PF40 and thanks for clarifying Jason. (I blame Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-PureAV-Power-Console-outlet/dp/B00064NXIG)... :rolleyes:) It is definitely 10 not 13, and the PF30 has 5.

HighFidelityGuy
19-10-2010, 09:47
Dedicated mains spur feeding a bank of four plugs these then fed the AV via MK four way trailing socket, Krell and Linn DS directly from wall supply and the turntable and phono stage from another MK four way trailing socket. So not to bad, now I am using just one feeding the PF40 which also has the sat signal and network cable passing through it.
I started off thinking I had lost some bass but it is actually cleaning and when a deep note appears you really know it. The odd thing is the imagery is better as well and that I cannot think of a reason for.

Thanks Fred. So it sounds like you had better mains supply wiring than I currently have. So if you gained an improvement I probably could. Do you live near any heavy industry or anything similar that could pollute your supply? I live quite close to steel works and other big industrial units in Sheffield and that seems to cause the mains quality to fluctuate through the day. Cheers.

chris@panteg
19-10-2010, 09:50
Well i have got a PF30 ' might as well at £15 + pp , got it last week :)

Interesting results so far , its in my av set at the moment and so far i would say its improved my Bravia tv , a brighter sharper image with slightly better colours , my M8 John bought one too and noted the same differences .

For the money you just have to try one :)

colinB
19-10-2010, 09:56
Nice one Chris. Are you intending on hooking up the hi Fi to it also.

chris@panteg
19-10-2010, 10:14
Yes Colin ' might as well :)

To be honest i'm kind of expecting it to flatten dynamics but who knows :rolleyes:

HighFidelityGuy
19-10-2010, 10:30
Yes Colin ' might as well :)

To be honest i'm kind of expecting it to flatten dynamics but who knows :rolleyes:

That's the bit I'm worried about as most filters seem to have a negative effect on dynamics. :(

Ali Tait
19-10-2010, 12:08
Perhaps just try it on sources to start,especially digital ones. I think a lot of mains problems are actually down to some kit,especially digital, injecting noise into the mains,which then affects amps etc. Maybe feeding just sources from the filter will prevent this.

Barry
19-10-2010, 12:34
Hi Guys,

Having just downloaded a pdf. of the user manual, I should point out that all the outlet sockets fitted to the Belkin PF40 (and I assume to the PF30 as well) are the 3-pin American style mains sockets. These are the ones where the live and neutral pins are flat blades and the earth is a round pin.

I'm not happy with this, as this will mean having to procure some of these inferior (compared to the UK BS1363 13A plugs) US plugs. They are designed for the US mains supply of 115V, half that of the UK mains voltage.

I do have a couple of leads fitted with a EU mains connector at one end and the US plug at the other, however I don't know who supplies these US plugs alone (apart from Furutech, and I'm not paying their prices!).

Regards

HighFidelityGuy
19-10-2010, 12:36
Hi Guys,

Having just downloaded a pdf. of the user manual, I should point out that all the outlet sockets fitted to the Belkin PF40 (and I assume to the PF30 as well) are the 3-pin American style mains sockets. These are the ones where the live and neutral pins are flat blades and the earth is a round pin.

I'm not happy with this, as this will mean having to procure some of these inferior (compared to the UK BS1363 13A plugs) US plugs. They are designed for the US mains supply of 115V, half that of the UK mains voltage.

I do have a couple of leads fitted with a EU mains connector at one end and the US plug at the other, however I don't know who supplies these US plugs alone (apart from Furutech, and I'm not paying their prices!).

Regards

You've just downloaded the US manual, you need the UK one. ;)
I'll try and post a link.

HighFidelityGuy
19-10-2010, 12:44
UK manuals:

PF30 (http://www.belkin.com/support/download/files/P74977ukAP20500uk3M.pdf)
PF40 (http://www.belkin.com/support/download/files/P74978ukAP21000uk3M.pdf)
PF50 (http://www.belkin.com/support/download/files/P74976ukAP41000ea3M.pdf)

Barry
19-10-2010, 12:45
You've just downloaded the US manual, you need the UK one. ;)
I'll try and post a link.

Oh thanks - that's a bit of a relief. Is there enough room on the back of the unit for 10 13A UK sockets?

Thanks again for pointing out my error - sorry if I alarmed anyone.

By the way do you know the spec for the PF40? I want to know the maximum continuous current that can be drawn from any protected socket.

Regards

HighFidelityGuy
19-10-2010, 12:48
Oh thanks - that's a bit of a relief. Is there enough room on the back of the unit for 10 13A UK sockets?

Thanks again for pointing out my error - sorry if I alarmed anyone.

By the way do you know the spec for the PF40? I want to know the maximum continuous current that can be drawn from any protected socket.

Regards

Check my previous post for the proper manuals, they show the layout of the sockets. The UK versions are bigger than the US ones as UK sockets are bigger but the UK models still have less sockets than the US ones. The PF40 has 9 sockets on the back, one on the front.

The current rating of individual sockets isn't listed but the whole unit has a maximum current rating of 10A. :)

Barry
19-10-2010, 12:54
UK manuals:

PF30 (http://www.belkin.com/support/download/files/P74977ukAP20500uk3M.pdf)
PF40 (http://www.belkin.com/support/download/files/P74978ukAP21000uk3M.pdf)
PF50 (http://www.belkin.com/support/download/files/P74976ukAP41000ea3M.pdf)

Many thanks Dave.

Regards

Alex_UK
19-10-2010, 13:59
You've just downloaded the US manual, you need the UK one. ;)

:lol: Sorry Barry, but that made me smile quite a lot! ;) Saying that, if mine arrives on Thursday with US sockets I'll be laughing on the other side of my face!!!

moo-fi
19-10-2010, 14:07
You should be okay, mine has standard sockets even if they are not the finest ones you will ever see. They appear rather fragile but seem to work okay but I wouldn't unplug them too often.

Reid Malenfant
19-10-2010, 14:26
Saying that, if mine arrives on Thursday with US sockets I'll be laughing on the other side of my face!!!
We like sellers that communicate ;) Looks like you had an email saying Thursday delivery between 9am & 5.30pm.

Come on, you know it'll have british 3 pin sockets :eyebrows: Can you imagine the feedback they'd get if it didn't :eek: :stalks: :mental:

Alex_UK
19-10-2010, 14:45
We like sellers that communicate ;) Looks like you had an email saying Thursday delivery between 9am & 5.30pm.

Yep, Parcelforce have it drop-kicked into a van already! :eyebrows: I'll probably be out when they come though, I usually am! :rolleyes:

Jason P
19-10-2010, 16:34
You should be okay, mine has standard sockets even if they are not the finest ones you will ever see. They appear rather fragile but seem to work okay but I wouldn't unplug them too often.


Agreed on the sockets being a bit flimsy - you need to be gentle when plugging in, and make sure the plug goes in square and level. Mine were fine - someone on the 'Wam had a problem after one of the sockets 'broke' - it didn't, but something came off inside, which they fixed easily. I can see how if one was a bit ham-fisted putting the plugs in this could strain the sockets, but once in they're a nice tight fit.

Jason

Barry
19-10-2010, 16:36
We like sellers that communicate ;) Looks like you had an email saying Thursday delivery between 9am & 5.30pm.

Come on, you know it'll have British 3 pin sockets :eyebrows: Can you imagine the feedback they'd get if it didn't :eek: :stalks: :mental:

In my defence, I did wonder if that was why it was being sold so cheaply. :scratch:


Sorry Barry, but that made me smile quite a lot!

Ah well - if I can spread a little lightness and joy in this world. I think however the appropriate smiley must be: :o !

Regards

Reid Malenfant
19-10-2010, 18:57
Agreed on the sockets being a bit flimsy - you need to be gentle when plugging in, and make sure the plug goes in square and level. Mine were fine - someone on the 'Wam had a problem after one of the sockets 'broke' - it didn't, but something came off inside, which they fixed easily. I can see how if one was a bit ham-fisted putting the plugs in this could strain the sockets, but once in they're a nice tight fit.

Jason
Cheers for the heads up Jason, softly softly catchy monkee :eyebrows:

In my defence, I did wonder if that was why it was being sold so cheaply. :scratch:

Regards
Me to, i have an inkling for how these things work though having see it enough times before ;) Ebayer walks into some random shop & sees these PF40s seriously reduced (like less than we payed by a good margin) & then thinks "aha, i can make some cash on these", buys a few & lists them on ebay... The rest is history & you can bet your bottom dollar that if there were any left he's off back to try to claim them to :lol:

I have seen this countless times, ebay just opens it up to country wide advertising (or even further afield) :)

Ali Tait
19-10-2010, 19:32
Would the sockets be easy to change?

Reid Malenfant
19-10-2010, 19:38
Would the sockets be easy to change?
I wouldn't say they'd be easy to change but i bet it could be done ;) Looking at the manual it appears they are mounted at a bit of an angle so all the cables on the outlets clear other plugs.

I'm sure that judiscious use of a hacksaw & drill would allow some MK or similar sockets to be installed. They might not be flush with the rear face though as it looks like they might have a round face that sits flush with the metalwork? :scratch:

Ali Tait
19-10-2010, 20:07
Aye I'll have a better idea when it arrives. Just realised one won't be enough so I've bought another!

Reid Malenfant
19-10-2010, 20:12
Aye I'll have a better idea when it arrives. Just realised one won't be enough so I've bought another!
:lolsign: I came to the same conclusion so bought a PF40 to go with the 30 :eyebrows:

3 systems does use a few plugs :doh:

Ali Tait
19-10-2010, 20:19
:lol:

Alex_UK
19-10-2010, 20:24
Stop it you two - I've been having the same thoughts... :)

Alex_UK
19-10-2010, 20:25
Always fancied a pair of mono(power)blocs... :lol:

Reid Malenfant
19-10-2010, 20:37
Stop it you two - I've been having the same thoughts... :)

Always fancied a pair of mono(power)blocs... :lol:
2864

RobsterD
19-10-2010, 20:47
I bought a couple of PF30's too late for the PF40's.
Currently just running my Apogee DAC,MAC and a B1 buffer through one sounds pretty good so far.

kininigin
19-10-2010, 21:10
I've also just got a pf30 £25 delivered.

Has 5 sockets just what i need.

There seems a lot of people getting these atm any comments on sound quality improvments?

HighFidelityGuy
20-10-2010, 00:40
Well I've just taken the plunge and ordered four PF30's. :lol:
The cheapest I could find them was £19.96 from HERE (http://www.it247.com/product/1/BELPS01L/AP20500UK3M-Belkin-PureAV-Home-Theater-Power-Console-PF30-surge-suppressor.html). The delivery is quite reasonable from them as well. Plus if you enter MYVAUT25 in the voucher code box during checkout you'll get £2 off each unit plus 2.5% off the delivery price. :eyebrows:

I should get them before the end of the week so I'll let you know how I get on early next week. :)

Ali Tait
20-10-2010, 07:32
Cheap pf40's here,wish I'd found this earlier-
http://www.memory-express.co.uk/1302856.html?utm_campaign=froogle&utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=lead#

Alex_UK
20-10-2010, 08:01
Cheap pf40's here,wish I'd found this earlier-
http://www.memory-express.co.uk/1302856.html?utm_campaign=froogle&utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=lead#

Thanks so much Ali - I owe you a beer - I've been wishing I'd bought the PF40 for the hifi but couldn't find them anywhere in stock at less than £100, so very grateful. The PF30 will go under the telly, and I'm hoping to coincide a whole tidy up exercise installing them...

Cheers again! (By the way, the total cost including VAT & £9.95 delivery is £52.92 which is what this deal will cost you.)

colinB
20-10-2010, 08:05
Thanks Ali. I have lots of haligon spots in my room and i noticed last night when i switched on my old fm tuner how much noise i have from my mains so im going to give this a punt.

HighFidelityGuy
20-10-2010, 09:14
Thanks Ali, I owe you one too. :cool:
Does anyone want a couple of PF30's? :doh:

Ali Tait
20-10-2010, 09:25
Glad to help!

chris@panteg
20-10-2010, 10:01
I tried the PF30 on my main system and .....

Very interesting:scratch: a noticeable change in the sound ' it seems to tighten things up a touch but its drier , in fact my 740a which normally sounds like it was voiced like a good valve amp , slightly rich and a certain warmth.

With the Belkin it reminds me of my old Cyrus 2 ! very dry , it does the same with my Yamaha, much drier and not to my liking .

It looks like its best used with my AV system as the Bravia appears much improved , which to be honest is what i expected if anything.

Alex_UK
20-10-2010, 10:30
Not quite so excited now... :(


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Ali Tait
20-10-2010, 11:10
Yes,was just going to post,the stock level said 127 but apparently they have none in stock.

Ali Tait
20-10-2010, 12:03
If you follow that link I posted,there are 2 sellers mentioned. I just had a web chat with the second seller,who says they don't have any in stock but can still get them, but it will take approx 2 weeks.

Ali Tait
20-10-2010, 12:18
Just been chatting to the guy and he is going to mail me if any are still available and a price.

colinB
20-10-2010, 14:28
Can anyone shed any light on the technicalities of the interference i heard an my FM radio? I guess it must be the transformers used for the halogens.
I plugged a Russ Andrews gizmo on the same twin socket but it made no defference.

Reid Malenfant
20-10-2010, 14:37
Can anyone shed any light on the technicalities of the interference i heard an my FM radio? I guess it must be the transformers used for the halogens.
I plugged a Russ Andrews gizmo on the same twin socket but it made no defference.
If they are high frequency transformers then yes it could well be them causing the interference. No way would a standard 50Hz transformer cause you grief.

The problem is probably due to the wiring :rolleyes: If any of the lights are more than a few feet from the transformer/s then they'll radiate quite well as an aerial & no amount of mains filtering will cut it out because it'll be picked up by your radio via the aerial.

A possible suggestion would be to cover any cables on the output of the transformer feeding the halogen lights with tin foil (making sure it can't short anything out) & then earth the tin foil as close as possible to it.. In other words screen it ;)

colinB
20-10-2010, 14:46
Thanks, i will give it a try. The normal 240v bulbs on the landing have been blowing frequently. Dont know if that is related or if its the large voltage swings i get from living in London West one.

HighFidelityGuy
20-10-2010, 14:48
This could shed some light on the matter: http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/3707.pdf

It sounds like a bunch of interference could get injected back into the mains (depending on the transformer design) but my guess would be that it's a your aerial picking up higher frequency radiated interference around 35KHz as that's mentioned in that PDF. Although that's still quite low frequency in terms of radio transmissions. Perhaps it's a quarter wavelength or something like that. :scratch:

Reid Malenfant
20-10-2010, 14:56
This could shed some light on the matter: http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/3707.pdf

It sounds like a bunch of interference could get injected back into the mains (depending on the transformer design) but my guess would be that it's a your aerial picking up higher frequency radiated interference around 35KHz as that's mentioned in that PDF. Although that's still quite low frequency in terms of radio transmissions. Perhaps it's a quarter wavelength or something like that. :scratch:
The transformers may have a fundamental switching frequency of anything over 20KHz - usually quite a bit higher, nearer 50KHz. But the problem is that they are switching a square wave & due to this a hell of a lot of vastly higher frequency harmonics are generated :doh: If the filtering on the output isn't very good then the wiring will indeed be broadcasting a load of garbage & it's possible his tuner is picking it up.

colinB
20-10-2010, 15:04
If its only the aerial picking it up thats not so bad as i mainly listen to freeview radio. If its contributing to dirty mains on my system supply then im concerned and wonder if the chokes on the Belkin might help a little.

Reid Malenfant
20-10-2010, 15:13
High frequency transformers are basically SMPS (switch mode power supplies) & unless they are very well designed (which i doubt a lighting transformer would be in all honesty) then they certain can inject crap back into the mains via the mains input to the transformer itself :rolleyes:

If the Belkin fails to cure it i'd suggest you get hold of a cheap mains filter & connect this between the mains & the transformer itself & as close as possible to the transformer.

Often it's a case of getting rid of the crap as close to the source as possible, rather than attempting to right next to your hifi gear.

This is the kind of thing i'd have in mind if you decide that it's needed (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MAINS-FILTER-STUD-MOUNTED-Cx-0-47-F-MKT-X2-Cy-0-01-/230529332038?pt=UK_AudioElectronicsVideo_Video_Tel evisionSetTopBoxes&hash=item35ac9e7346). Obvously look around for yourself as that's the first one i came accross :eyebrows:

colinB
20-10-2010, 15:57
Thanks for that. Now i have hunt the transformer to look forward to.
Would you wire it parallel to the tranny?

Reid Malenfant
20-10-2010, 16:04
Just follow the circuit diagram or ask on here if you get stuck, i'm sure i'm not the only person who could help :)

As i say though, look about as you'll likely find the same thing cheaper, or even a better filter ;)

Ok, lets take a look as others might be interested in doing similar with a noise fridge or freezer :eyebrows:

2869

With the above circuit you'd cut the cable feeding the lighting transformer or whatever else you wanted to clean up (make sure the power is disconnected first!). Then the Live & Neutral of the cable that feeds the device connect to L1 (Live - Brown) & N2 (Neutral - Blue). Then connect the device to the connections 3 & 4, Live to connector 3 & Neutral to connector 4. The stud on the can needs to be earthed so connect it to the earth (green/yellow) in the cable feeding it & also to any earth on the device being filtered.

colinB
20-10-2010, 16:15
;)

Reid Malenfant
21-10-2010, 12:19
Both my PF40 & PF30 have turned up at the same time :lol:

Just heaved the PF40 out of it's box & frankly i'm amazed at what i'm seeing :)

The power input cable (fixed) must be a good 3M long & to say it's thick is being economical with the truth :eyebrows: It's a 4mm^2 cable that's also shielded/screened :eek: All the inputs & outputs for aerials, cable etc are gold plated & look to be of a very high quality indeed ;) The supplied aerial & cable fly leads also have decent gold plated connectors...

PF30 uses a 2.5mm^2 mains cable, though no mention of whether it is screend or not. Same connectors as per the PF40, all gold plated along with the fly leads.

To say i'm impressed is a little short of the mark :wow: Ok, so they aren't built like Isoteks but at this price who gives a monkeys :eyebrows:

HighFidelityGuy
21-10-2010, 13:50
My PF30's arrived today, still waiting on the PF40's.
I whipped the cover off one to have a look inside and it seems quite decently put together. I can confirm that the mains input cable isn't shielded or screened, so that's a bummer. :( All the mains wiring inside and out is nice thick stuff but it's not star earthed and has two earth points, so that could be improved on. I bet a full rewire with Mark Grant power cable and star earthing would extract some extra performance but that would add quite a bit to the price.

Jason P
21-10-2010, 13:56
Just heaved the PF40 out of it's box & frankly i'm amazed at what i'm seeing :)

The power input cable (fixed) must be a good 3M long & to say it's thick is being economical with the truth :eyebrows:

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that in my original post. It is a little - how shall I put it - 'industrial' isn't it?

In fact, the biggest problem I had was routing the mains cable. I thought 'no problem - I'll shove it behind my LPs, they'll squash it behind the cabinet' but no, the cable just shrugs them off and pushes them out of the rack. Had to do some judicious fiddling to tidy it up!

Reid Malenfant
21-10-2010, 14:37
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that in my original post. It is a little - how shall I put it - 'industrial' isn't it?
Frankly it's a good thing :) The filters themselves will add to the impedance that anything that is connected to the unit will see. Therefore it makes some sense to use a cable of decent thickness to connect it to the wall socket as this will add very little ;)

Like you say though, it is kind of 'very' thick :lol: I think 2.5mm^2 would have been sufficient but there is no way i'm going to complain about having an even thicker cable fitted that happens to be screened into the bargain.

I have plugged it in just to see if it all functions & all looks good, later on i'll try the thing out on some kind of equipment & see what happens. It'll probably have to be the TV & blu ray player for now, hopefully the picture should improve slightly (i seem to remember someone mentioning that they found this themselves) :)

HighFidelityGuy
21-10-2010, 15:25
I'm going to try connecting my PC and EQ to a PF30 first as they're easy to get to and form most of the source (exluding my DAC) in my system.

I really like the look of the units but the power sockets on the back are frankly shockingly bad quality. They really don't grip the plug pins tightly at all and feel like they're going to break when push the plug in. :( I think I'll have to look into replacing them. I don't mind too much for £20 but I'd be pretty pissed if I'd payed full whack. Oh well, if they provide an improvement I'll look at doing some mods. :)

Barry
21-10-2010, 19:19
My Belkin PF40 mains conditioner arrived today, courtesy of Parcel Force. The parcel was huge! Out of curiosity, I weighed it before unpacking: it weighed 11.2Kg.

Parcel Force charge £19.50 for guaranteed 48hr delivery, so the actual cost of the PF40 works out to be £45.50!

I then unpacked the device, and I have to say that despite the weight and the single-layer packaging of not particularly thick cardboard, the conditioner is very well cushioned in a papier maché cradle. The device itself weigh 6.8Kg, so the mass of the packaging is ~ 65% of the device itself!

So to the device itself – if the packaging was huge the mains-conditioner is massive! I can now see how it can accommodate nine 13A sockets (Phew!) on the rear panel. Most impressive of all, though it might prove to need ‘taming’, is the heavy-duty mains cable: it’s ½” in diameter and is not particularly flexible.

I bought the PF40, thinking I would use it with my audio system. I may well do so, but in the first instance I’ll be installing it in my ‘AV system’ (an over-blown ‘portmanteau’ description of my telly, DVD and videotape players, Free-View box and audio amplifier and cassette recorder. 7 items in total. It ought at least allow me to tidy up the clutter of mains cables and distribution strip. Hell! - You can even plug your vacuum cleaner into the digital-filtered socket on the front, and, no doubt, be assured that in doing so the carpet will come up cleaner than before!

So how do they make ‘em so cheaply? Well, despite being designed in the US, they are made in China. With their cheap labour rates this explains a lot. Comment has been made concerning the ‘flimsy’ 13A sockets. They seem to be sufficiently robust and rugged, and one hopes the ‘guts’ of the device is built to an acceptable standard. Certainly, looking at the photos posted showing the interior; the build quality looks to be amazing. Clearly Belkin are satisfied with the construction to offer £300,000 indemnity against possible damage to whatever is connected to the PF40. Even so, I’ll still be unplugging it from the mains and unplugging the TV aerial when I’m away for a week or more.

How are other members getting on with theirs?

Regards

Puffin
21-10-2010, 19:36
:dance:

Ali Tait
21-10-2010, 19:49
Both my 30's turned up today also.Will try them in my system tomorrow.Too tired tonight.

Alex_UK
21-10-2010, 19:54
How are other members getting on with theirs?

PF30 arrived as promised, but I can't be arsed ripping everything apart tonight. Very impressed though, for £20.99 delivered looking at the unit. Will try and set it up over the weekend.

Ali Tait
21-10-2010, 20:54
Yeah,stonking for the money.

HighFidelityGuy
21-10-2010, 22:54
I got one of my PF30's installed. It's currently running my Media Centre PC from the high current output, my DAC and preamp are connected to a Tacima filtered block which is currently connected to one of the PF30's audio outputs. My EQ is connected to the other audio output and I have an aerial signal booster and my WiFi router connected to the two video outputs. I chose these devices as they were all originally plugged into the same Belkin Surge Protector 6 way block, so it was an easy swap. I'll change this around later to remove the Tacima block but I decided it will do for now.

My initial thoughts on the quality of the mains sockets on the PF30 still remain, I hate them. They're the worst quality mains sockets I've ever used. Despite that I'm happy with the rest of the build quality of the unit and they certainly look very nice. It's a bit of a shame that the front panel is plastic but you can't really expect brushed alu for this price.

As for the sound quality, I didn't really expect much of a change, especially seen as several of my components were already connected to a filtered block. However I do seem to be hearing an improvement. The noise floor seems to have been lowered as I now get a slightly darker sound. I guess some distortion must have been removed. Micro detail seems to have improved and there's more air and delicacy to the sound. Bass also seems a little tighter. I heard some extra background detail in two tracks that I'd not noticed before, so that was an unexpected bonus.

So overall I'm happy with the results and I'm looking forward to my PF40's arriving as it sounds like they should be even better with their industrial cabling. I think I'll try rolling out more units through the rest of my system but I really want to sort out the crappy power sockets as well. I'll see what I can come up with on that front. :)

Reid Malenfant
22-10-2010, 10:36
I plugged the PF40 in & connected my blu ray player & TV to it & sat down to watch a film i know very well (Avatar)...I actually forgot to plug the Octava HDMI switcher in until today :doh:

I'm going to have to watch it again to be honest, not because i couldn't detect a difference, but because the difference was so bloody obvious :eyebrows:

The interesting thing is that as things proceeded it actually appeared to get better & better, by the time the film ended i just couldn't believe what i was seeing. Colours were better, contrast, detail had gone through the roof. I was constantly seeing stuff i had never seen before because it wasn't that detailed previously but stood out now..

It even appeared to sound better, though the blu ray was connected to the PF40 the hifi wasn't :lolsign:

Best value picture upgrade i have ever experienced, jaw dropping tbh.

As i say, i'll watch it again today just to make sure i wasn't hallucinating :eyebrows:

Reid Malenfant
22-10-2010, 12:28
As i say, i'll watch it again today just to make sure i wasn't hallucinating :eyebrows:
I decided to play 2012 instead ;)

All i can say is i wasn't tripping last night :eyebrows:

Much more detail, better colour saturation, loads more to see as small virtually insignificant things that were not defined too well previously stand out now. No wonder actors hate HD :lol:

The picture is much more 3 dimensional which i also noticed last night, it wasn't the beer causing it ;) Loads more detail in shadows, quite astounding :stalks:


I stand by what i said earlier, plugging the TV, blu ray & now the Octava HDMI switcher has resulted in te best picture upgrade i have seen for the money :)

E2A:- I might wire up the PS Audio P600 & see what that does to the picture :eyebrows:

I honestly can't get over the difference that the PF40 makes so i guess my curiosity has been aroused :)

Covenant
22-10-2010, 15:25
I plugged the PF40 in & connected my blu ray player & TV to it & sat down to watch a film i know very well (Avatar)...I actually forgot to plug the Octava HDMI switcher in until today :doh:

I'm going to have to watch it again to be honest, not because i couldn't detect a difference, but because the difference was so bloody obvious :eyebrows:

The interesting thing is that as things proceeded it actually appeared to get better & better, by the time the film ended i just couldn't believe what i was seeing. Colours were better, contrast, detail had gone through the roof. I was constantly seeing stuff i had never seen before because it wasn't that detailed previously but stood out now..

It even appeared to sound better, though the blu ray was connected to the PF40 the hifi wasn't :lolsign:

Best value picture upgrade i have ever experienced, jaw dropping tbh.

As i say, i'll watch it again today just to make sure i wasn't hallucinating :eyebrows:

I wish I had time to watch a film twice in a day-get some work done!:lol:

Reid Malenfant
22-10-2010, 15:29
I wish I had time to watch a film twice in a day-get some work done!:lol:
Been there, done that :ner:

:lolsign:

Ali Tait
22-10-2010, 17:11
Agreed!! I've just plumbed two PF30's into my system.They are feeding the hi-fi as well as the telly and Sky+ box. Not only has it made things much tidier,it's really improved the picture on HD,probably even more than fitting the MG HDMI cable did,and that improved things a lot!
Took me about 3 hours to do all this,so will have to wait till the system warms up before I can hear what it's done on the music front,but if it's improved things as much as it has for the telly,I will be very happy!

Reid Malenfant
22-10-2010, 17:18
<snip> Agreed!! it's really improved the picture on HD,probably even more than fitting the MG HDMI cable did,and that improved things a lot!
Took me about 3 hours to do all this,so will have to wait till the system warms up before I can hear what it's done on the music front,but if it's improved things as much as it has for the telly,I will be very happy!
Yes that's what i found Ali, the MG cables did make a big difference + i got a decent handshake between Panny player & Philips TV, but the PF40 has made a vast difference :wow:

I thought it was just the beer so had to try it out again today to make sure, it was the PF40 making the difference - what a cracking bit of kit :)

Pleased to hear that the PF30 has the same effect, it'll be interesting to find out what you reckon it does on the musical front ;)

colinB
22-10-2010, 17:21
Looks like the PF40 bargains are all but gone:(

Ali Tait
22-10-2010, 17:50
Yes I've been trying to get one too,I could still use all three.

colinB
22-10-2010, 18:04
I blame those pesky WHF forum tweakers. Theyve bought them all.

Reid Malenfant
22-10-2010, 18:21
You'd be amazed at how much the mains voltage varies ;) The display on the PF40 has been a bit of an insight as i honestly haven't bothered doing a long term check.

Early this morning (6.55AM) it was about 247V AC & the lowest i have seen is about 235V AC. The thing is though is that my local substation is literally at the bottom of my garden, i could spit on the transformer from my property :eyebrows:

I just wonder how bad it must be if you are a bit of a distance from a substation :lolsign: Apart from a higher impedance supply & worse regulation there must be more crap on the line to deal with to :eek:

Ali Tait
22-10-2010, 18:37
How big's that sub at the bottom of your garden? It may not be the one that feeds you.

Reid Malenfant
22-10-2010, 18:48
How big's that sub at the bottom of your garden? It may not be the one that feeds you.
Oh it is, trust me ;) Put it like this, a new 33KV cable is being connected to the substation input & is going to run right down the road beside my house to feed a new load of houses being built about 300M away. I guess they are going to get a small one of their own ;)

It's a local substation, not a 132KV biggy :) The next nearest (local) to me is a good 600M+ away so i have a pretty good idea which i'm connected to & i live in a city :eyebrows:

Ali Tait
22-10-2010, 19:11
My point is,if it's one you notice,it's feeding smaller ones around your area that you don't notice,and these are the ones that feed streets/houses etc.

anthonyTD
22-10-2010, 19:40
hi all,
well reading your posts on the belkin filters got me curious, :eyebrows: so i decided to try one and see how they performed in my system, so i purchased the PF-30 version for the test. well,,,how can i put this, i wasnt impressed,:( all i got was a rather annoying forwardness to the presentation and a lack of bottom end,:scratch: i have tried other types of filters over the years but i always come back to a design that has been in my system now for over 5 years.my conclusion,,, IMHO there is no one perfect fix for the problems we face with the quality and variation of the mains supply we all have to endure in our individual situations these days, and in some extreme cases any type of mains filteration is better than nothing, but i cant help feeling that the simplest of designs certainly in my case anyway seem to have the best sonic improvements with the least amount of negativety.
As stated my findings in my test are just that, others seem to have had positive results and i am realy glad that in some cases these type of filters seem to do the biz.:)
Anthony,TD...

Ali Tait
22-10-2010, 20:25
Funny you should say that.. I've been mucking about with these today.There's no doubt they've vastly improved the telly/sky box side of things,but I've just been thinking there is a lack of bass as I sit here listening to the moosic side of things.Perhaps the accepted wisdom is best,don't plug the amps into them.Were you doing that Anthony?

anthonyTD
22-10-2010, 20:42
hi ali,
yep, preamp and power amps into the high current socket, i dont usualy run my amps from my own filter only source but i have done in the past and they dont do what the PF-30 does, infact its quite the opposite, i get too much bass!
not realy sure what to make of things.:scratch:
Anthony,TD...

Ali Tait
22-10-2010, 20:59
I do think things have improved otherwise though,better detail etc. buut,I think the soundstage is smaller,and bass is lighter and a little wooley.I think I'll try plugging the amps without the fiters again as see what 'appens!

Jason P
22-10-2010, 21:01
What I find most interesting about these is the variation in peoples experiences - like Mark (RM) I have seen variations in the mains from 219 to a high of 239 here - so wildly different! I'm sure its utterly dependant on the condition of the mains both in to the house and the quality of wiring within, hence people with dedicated spurs noting an improvement.

It's also surprising how much of a difference it makes to a TV picture... and as to the bass (or lack of) my Dalis were a little overblown in the bass (room interaction mostly) so the 'tightening' effect hasn't bothered me. As noted, there is no universal panacea - but I for one am happy with the purchase.

Ali Tait
22-10-2010, 21:09
Ahh,the bass is back!!

Ali Tait
22-10-2010, 21:13
What I find most interesting about these is the variation in peoples experiences - like Mark (RM) I have seen variations in the mains from 219 to a high of 239 here - so wildly different! I'm sure its utterly dependant on the condition of the mains both in to the house and the quality of wiring within, hence people with dedicated spurs noting an improvement.

It's also surprising how much of a difference it makes to a TV picture... and as to the bass (or lack of) my Dalis were a little overblown in the bass (room interaction mostly) so the 'tightening' effect hasn't bothered me. As noted, there is no universal panacea - but I for one am happy with the purchase.

No "tightening" of bass I could discern,just very little of it! Now restored by avoiding the filters with the amps.MUCH better now.I do appreciate the story could be very different depending on the quality of your mains,and of course what is in your system.

colinB
22-10-2010, 22:00
Great posts guys. Im going for a pf30 for my AV and keep the Merlin block for my Hi Fi:cool:

Ali Tait
22-10-2010, 22:55
They really are worth it IMHO.All the good things I was talking about are still there,and the bass and big sound stage are back since I plugged the amps back into the raw mains,but there are real gains to be had using these filters on your sources I think. At least,there are in my system,hopefully in yours too.

HighFidelityGuy
22-10-2010, 23:06
This seems to be a recurring theme with mains filters. They tend to work well with lower powered components like CD players and DAC's etc but seem to hold back amps and other things that draw more power. So as long as you accept that and work within the limits good results can be obtained. I don't think I'm even going to try running my power amps off the Belkins but I am going to try my subs as I get some interference issues with them. I'm pretty much expecting their dynamics to be adversely affected but I think it's worth a try in this instance.

Ali Tait
22-10-2010, 23:20
Frankly I don't think it's a simple as that.I have read that filters can be detrimental where there's not enough current available,so perhaps that's the problem here, I dunno.Things do sound rather pleasant now though,I have to say,certainly better than they did before.

Barry
23-10-2010, 16:42
I have yet to install my PF-40, however in view of comments concerning indicated voltage variation and on the requirement for a heavy duty mains lead, I made some measurements on the 'High Power' switched socket.

No-load voltage: 247.8V

On-load voltage (with a 2,002 W load): 245.1V

Current drawn = 8.168A (and not the 7.6A indicated), thus source impedance: 0.33Ohm.

Neutral to earth offset: 0.224V
Neutral to earth loop resistance could not be measured reliably owing to the offset voltage.

L-N DC offset: -17.5mV to -20.1mV, varying cyclically.



These figures are to be compared with measurements taken directly from the wall socket:

Off-load voltage: 242.2V

On-load voltage with 2,002 W load: 240.1V

Thus source impedance: 0.25Ohm

Neutral to earth offset: 0.9V
Neutral to earth loop resistance: < 0.2Ohm

L-N DC offset: -18mV.

These figures suggest that the display on the PF40 ought not to be taken as gospel.

Trust the information is of interest.

Regards

colinB
23-10-2010, 16:59
Came across a thread on another forum by a electrician who had the same findings.
He also sound that a the socket next to the plugged in Belkin exhibits the same noise reduction and spike protection but does not have the RFI rejection. This was tested by himself. He put it down to the smoothing caps possibly.
The high current input has no choke apparently.

Reid Malenfant
23-10-2010, 17:10
These figures suggest that the display on the PF40 ought not to be taken as gospel.

Trust the information is of interest.

Regards
:lolsign: If i wanted an accurate measurement of the mains voltage i'd check with my Fluke 8502A ;) I think 6 digits should be more like it :eyebrows:

I'll take a look inside myself before i install the PF40 on a more permanent basis, there may well be a simply way of making it more accurate, not that i'm too fussed about it tbh. Just as long as it does what it does :)

Cheers anyway Barry :)

Barry
23-10-2010, 17:25
:lolsign: If i wanted an accurate measurement of the mains voltage i'd check with my Fluke 8502A ;) I think 6 digits should be more like it :eyebrows:

I'll take a look inside myself before i install the PF40 on a more permanent basis, there may well be a simply way of making it more accurate, not that i'm too fussed about it tbh. Just as long as it does what it does :)

Cheers anyway Barry :)

I used an HP E2373A digital multimeter.

DC (300mV range), resolution 100uV, accuracy 0.5% + 1 digits
AC (300V range), resolution 100mV, accuracy 1.2% + 2 digits

Resistance (300Ohm range), resolution 100mOhm, accuracy 0.7% + 2 digits.

Like you, I'm not bothered about the display accuracy; I'll have it permenantly dimmed, otherwise I'll be distracted by the display. I dislike power meters or LED bar graphs for the same reason.

Regards

Reid Malenfant
23-10-2010, 17:43
Nice bit of kit Barry :)

I'm not sure of the accuracy of my Fluke, i can't remember :eyebrows:

Lets just say that on 2V range AC or DC i can measure down to 1uV, with 240V AC that'd be 10mV i reckon :scratch:

It's good enough for me & sensitive enough to help adjust the current on a MC phono stage for least noise :)

Just found the specs or at least some of them :eyebrows:


Basic unit measures DC voltage (100 mV, 1 V, 10 V, 100 V, 1000 V) with 6 ppm accuracy or the ratio of two DC voltages. 6 1/2-digits, the accuracy is ±(0.002% + 4) on lowest range.

Alex_UK
23-10-2010, 17:57
Installed my PF30 today, and totally agree that the power sockets are quite nasty, but I doubt I will be plugging/unplugging them much now everything is plugged in. A bit difficult to tell if there is any difference as I have also tidied up the cables and more importantly repositioned my speakers (info on my Gallery thread (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3638), if anyone is interested) - but as I say there, I've ordered another for TV duties - sufficiently happy at £20 just for the tidyness and peace of mind for surge protection.

Reid Malenfant
23-10-2010, 20:25
<snip> but as I say there, I've ordered another for TV duties - sufficiently happy at £20 just for the tidyness and peace of mind for surge protection.
I'd just like to add that from what i'm looking at right now the TV picture is still improving from my blu ray player :scratch: It's had about 8 - 10 hours of use with a decent current pulled through it, the rest has been zero current apart from the pretty display :eyebrows:

Break in on a filter? :scratch: Nothing would surprise me from what i can see ;) I'm watching Avatar for a second time with this thing plugged in, sound is also getting even clearer :mental:

Get another Alex :)

If this was a woman it'd be the most beautiful thing i'd ever seen :smoking:

colinB
23-10-2010, 21:21
Ive had to restrain myself from buying one not that i doubt it would be a neat investment but because i think my stylus is shagged and i want to buy the best my funds can allow and quick before i knacker my records:(

Barry
24-10-2010, 23:28
Hooked up the PF40 today for all the video 'gubbins' in the TV room.

Despite having nine sockets on the back, I still had to use a two-way adapter so as to plug three items into the two 'video' sockets provided. Anyway it all works; the very slight hum I used to get via the Quad 33/303 (used to pick off the audio channels) has gone and so too has the central heating thermostat 'clicks' that would be picked up.

Can't say I've noticed much improvement to picture quality or to the sound quality, but they haven't worsened. I understand the Belkin units have to 'burn-in', whereupon things are said to improve.

I'm not, as yet, running the TV aerial through the appropriate part of the PF40. Will try that out at a later date.

jandl100
25-10-2010, 07:14
Hmmm ... yeah, I got a PF40 too, as part of the W*gw*m excitement.

Plugged it in a week or two back, and there it has stayed. Nice piece of kit - follows the medico's maxim - "first, do no harm".

Has it improved the sound over my previous mains filter gubbins (also from the W*gw*m) - er, yes, possibly.

It sounds fine, adds serious guaranteed protection and helps tidy up the cable spaghetti a bit, so why obsess? :)

Oh, and it cost me £46 delivered .... :scratch: Just amazing value.

Ali Tait
25-10-2010, 07:30
Yes,great value. I did find it made things worse sound wise until I plugged just the amps back into the raw mains. All the bass that was missing came back. It has improved SQ from the sources though. I also plugged in the telly and sky box,routing the satellite cables through it too, and there has been quite a gain in picture quality, and sound too. More than worth the 20 quid or so each!

Effem
28-10-2010, 20:03
I wouldn't mind having a dabble with a PF40, so I'm on the look out for one at the right price

Peter Galbavy
29-10-2010, 11:39
Had a look 'round for these today and the only "reasonable" price is £99+£4.95 from Micom or via the Amazon listing. they showed 6 in stock here: http://www.micomonline.co.uk/products.asp?partno=AP21000UK3M - but I bought them through their Amazon listing simply because I can't be bothered to set-up yet another account etc.

Looks like after the badly wired batch Belkin have discontinued them, so unless someone knows better get them now while they still exist.

Effem
04-11-2010, 22:42
The PF30 I bought arrived today and had a chance to play with it tonight for an hour or so.

A definite improvement in detail retrieval for sure and the sound now projects well out into the room although I'm none too sure I entirely like the effect. As with any new item installed in my system, I will only have a brief listen when something arrives just to make sure it hasn't been damaged during transit, then have a proper listening sesh the day after. Initially had only the CD player and pre-amp running through it, then I connected the power amp. It certainly has made the bass sound "fruitier" for want of a better word and so far I haven't detected any compression effects.

Tomorrow I will have a more critical listen.

The Vinyl Adventure
10-11-2010, 17:06
PF30 arrived in the post today
I have taken the approach of isolating the av equipment from the hifi
Tv, mini pc, bluray player and Hannahs rope light that is near the hifi are plug into it... Majik ds, pre amp and speakers are plugged directly into the mains with the speakers having thier own sockets
This has worked well for me, I have lost I bucket load of noise that the mini pc introduced ... Now just need one of marks posh distribution blocks to replace the crappy one I'm using for the pre and majik ... Then eventually a couple of Anthonys filters and a dedicated mains doobry and I'm done! ...
This has definately been an improvement though, it was the main issue with the mini pc... Not the sound it makes, but the noise it put through the hifi... Even the music from Spotify from it sounds better!

The Vinyl Adventure
10-11-2010, 17:13
Takes up a whole slot in my rack though... Bye bye free sat... Don't need you now I have the pc anyway!

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/f71e73c8.jpg

John
10-11-2010, 18:12
Blimey Hamish very funky/rave looking speakers:rave:

The Vinyl Adventure
10-11-2010, 18:18
... Yeah, that'll be Hannahs ropelight in morrocan style lantern thingy... Does look a bit like a mad speaker eh? ...

John
10-11-2010, 18:18
Yes sure do

colinB
10-11-2010, 19:35
Soy for being of topic but are you streaming your tv through the pc Hamish?

Due to bad aerial reception im thinking of buying one of these Sony kdl32ex420 tellys that can do internet tv. Could do with some buying advice Hamish

The Vinyl Adventure
10-11-2010, 22:07
Yeah, My signal Has gone to shit too... I need a new aerial ...
I'm watch tv on tvcatchup right now...
Why do you need to know?

colinB
10-11-2010, 22:27
Hamish, as you might know sony have these budget internet tvs , the ex series. You can watch iplayer and the other catch ups and download love film rentals.
I read really mixed reviews on them, some good some not so. Im imagining possible drop outs , poor quality picture or you have to have a really fast broad band speed. Im wondering if i should wait for the next gen models to make sure the technology is glich free and the media companies allow free live streaming.
Any thoughts on it .

The Vinyl Adventure
10-11-2010, 22:39
If you want integrated Internet tv I'd wait or the next gen as the will reportedly have built in google tv...
Either thy or buy the frankly fantastic Sony kdl-32ex503 ... Its has a fantastic picture, it does have the Internet features I think... But either way you can still go the route o have and get a mini media type pc and have access to everything the Internet can offer ...
Even google tv, with it's android (I think) based operating system will be limits in what you can do out side of watching stuff ... With a little silent media pc your options arent limited in the same way... I use mine for Spotify about 3 hours of every day!! Google tv won't be doing that I doubt ...
Is that any help?

colinB
10-11-2010, 23:12
Sorry Hamish , watching the apprentice:o
Glad to here your endorsement for the 503. I was wondering about it. Was also looking at the 403 £100 cheaper but only 50hz.
Thanks Hamish.

The Vinyl Adventure
10-11-2010, 23:28
I wouldn't go lower than the 503 my self, although the latest 50hz models are still pretty good, my biggest bug bear with LCD is the motion... They have gotten pretty good now, but the 100hz ones are def better ... We still have a 703 at the shop, 100hz, edge led ... V nice!
Don't forget you can get the vat back on Sony TVs at the mo too!

colinB
10-11-2010, 23:32
Take your point.
I dont watch sport much but at some point a Playstation is going to grace the rack. :cool:

The Vinyl Adventure
10-11-2010, 23:44
I dont watch any sport ... It's just dificult to avoid programs where the camera never pans or tracks or nobody ever moves :)
I'm quite sensitive to it though, selling TVs or 5 years staring at them every day for 2 1/2 of those years you start to work out what you like and what you hate, and eventually the things you hate make every tv that suffered even slightly with the problems a pile of shite! Unnatural brightness, poor contrast - washed out whites and lost blacks, shit motion, poor red and or green reproduction ... All reasons I wouldn't have bought a LCD until this year ... Plasma rules ;) (until this gen, where lcds have got good and plasmas have started to look over prossesd like lcds :doh:)

colinB
10-11-2010, 23:51
I liked Plasmas and its interesting how the Pioneer Kuros hold there price on e bay. I was stupid enough to believe the BS about longevity issues and presently have a 5 year old philips LCD that is starting to look very dated.

The Vinyl Adventure
11-11-2010, 00:03
Old plasmas did suffer a little bit, but mostly with screen burn ... The funny thing was that the bollocks about plasmas having short life spans got so wide spread it was supperceeded by the even greater amount of bollocks that was the "re-gassing" myth used by sales people to counteract the first stupid myth... I actually don't know if either has any truth other than that I know people with old plasmas that still work fine, and I no of no plasmas that have a little socket for adding more gas! :)

colinB
11-11-2010, 00:06
Very naughty.

Reid Malenfant
03-02-2011, 18:58
I think i have discovered why these PF40s were being sold off so cheap :eyebrows: No doubt Belkin ceased production of them due to some weird fault...

Just unboxed another today to test the thing on balanced mains output of a PS Audio P600 mains regenerator. Before doing anything i plugged it into the mains & as usual all lit up like a christmas tree. The outputs worked & the switched outputs & delay worked ;) What didn't work was the little indicators that show the thing is properly earthed & that the mains wiring is correct :scratch: They stayed as crosses rather than going to ticks..

I checked the earth & all was fine, i know the house wiring is 100% sound & having heard of faulty units i put it down to that anyway.. As it is going to be fed balanced mains i really don't give two figs that the little indicators didn't work as the wiring one would show things were wrong fed balanced mains anyway :eyebrows:

So i unboxed number 3 & the same crap, the little indicators that have a tick when all is good & a cross when it isn't were as the above, showing no earth & wrong wiring :D

Now you know why the things were sold cheap. They still work perfectly but the display or sensing for earth & wiring is fookey :cool:

The first one i bought happens to be 100% functional, i really can't be arsed to see what's going on with the odd ones..They work fine but for the oddities.

Ali Tait
03-02-2011, 19:10
Have you just bought these or did you get therm a while ago?

Reid Malenfant
03-02-2011, 19:13
Back at the beginning of it all Ali - a while ago ;)

Ali Tait
03-02-2011, 19:14
I've got three of the '30's. All seem to work perfectly.

Getgaff
04-02-2011, 19:05
Now you know why the things were sold cheap. They still work perfectly but the display or sensing for earth & wiring is fookey.
Not true, they were sold as a discontinued line. However a number of PF40's were released with an incorrectly wired plug, which will explain why you're seeing a earth and wiring fault that doesn't exist.

For example,
http://www.avforums.com/forums/12737312-post91.html

FWII, my PF40 works perfectly.

Reid Malenfant
04-02-2011, 19:13
Not true, they were sold as a discontinued line. However a number of PF40's were released with an incorrectly wired plug, which will explain why you're seeing a earth and wiring fault that doesn't exist.

Interesting, i'll try out the faulty units rewired & see if the displays still show a fault condition ;)

Cheers for the heads up :)

Reid Malenfant
04-02-2011, 19:23
Not true, they were sold as a discontinued line. However a number of PF40's were released with an incorrectly wired plug, which will explain why you're seeing a earth and wiring fault that doesn't exist.

While i'm sure you may well be correct about the incorrectly wired plugs, after all you can see it in the picture i'd like to inform you are also wrong :eyebrows:

I took the plug off of one the other day & i just wired it up L-L, E-E & N-N into a LEN box, guess what - the display still shows incorrect wiring & no earth ;)

So i guess that means there is a fault somewhere else then huh :rolleyes:

Barry
05-02-2011, 18:05
The reason these Belkin mains conditioners are so cheap is because, whilst being designed in the US, they're made in China. China has probably the lowest labour rates in the world (including the enforced labour provided by their 'political' prisoners). That's why China is flooding the globe with cheap, and usually unreliable products; their quality control is appalling.

To pass EU health and safety regulations and be awarded the CE mark, all a product has to do is pass the safety and EMC checks. It is not important that the display has to be accurate. Indeed mine, whilst having 'ticks' in all the right places, tells me my mains supply voltage lays between 248 and 251V, whereas in practice (and measured by me) it is close to 240V!

Despite all this, having used one in my 'home cinema' (:lol:) for the last three months, I feel that there is an improvement in picture quality: the picture is sharper. However this improvement was not immmediate, it seems to have come about with the unit 'burning in'.

Regards

Reid Malenfant
26-03-2011, 21:21
Belkin PF40 for sale on fleabay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110664011257&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT) ;)

Nice price right now with less than a day to go, i'm just not sure about the mains connectors as they don't look like UK mains sockets to me :scratch: I think that the "new mains plug" needing to be fitted indicates it might be a European version, like the output sockets could well be :eyebrows:

Barry
26-03-2011, 21:25
Belkin PF40 for sale on fleabay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110664011257&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT) ;)

Nice price right now with less than a day to go, i'm just not sure about the mains connectors as they don't look like UK mains sockets to me :scratch: I think that the "new mains plug" needing to be fitted indicates it might be a European version, like the output sockets could well be :eyebrows:

Yep, they're Schuko connectors.

Reid Malenfant
24-11-2011, 18:48
If anyone is interested I reckon I have found some cheap replacements for the PF40 & PF30 :eyebrows:

Before you reject the idea, do a bit of reading. These mains blocks are not only protected against surges, they are also filtered ;) There appear to be blocks of sockets that are filtered differently to others, they also protect TV aerials & phone lines from lightning strikes...

Does all this sound familiar? :lol:

I'm so sure they'll do the same thing I just put my money where my mouth is & bought two 8 way blocks (there is one left & it's dead cheap :eyebrows:) Though obviously I can't guarantee they are the same, heck, it looks like they do the same trick & they are designed for AV systems...

Find your prize here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p3984.m570.l1313&_nkw=belkin+pureav+protector&_sacat=See-All-Categories) :cool:

Reid Malenfant
24-11-2011, 19:19
:lolsign: It didn't take long for that other 8 way socket to sell :eyebrows:

Ok, so you can't exactly mount these in a rack, but if you haven't got the space in a rack anyway....

I'll be amazed if they don't do as good a job as the PF range ;)

Macca
25-11-2011, 12:59
I had one of these Belkin eight way jobs and it was very good indeed making a noticeable reduction in the noise floor. Don't run a power amp through it though as it will kill the dynamics.

Stupidly I left it connected when my electric meter was changed over and it had a bit of an eppy and started sparking so it went in the bin. I think I paid £50 off Amazon

brian2957
25-11-2011, 17:24
I bought the last one Mark , needed a decent block anyway . Looking forward to hearing what it can do .
Brian.

Reid Malenfant
25-11-2011, 17:36
I bought the last one Mark , needed a decent block anyway . Looking forward to hearing what it can do .
Brian.
Well going on what Martin said they should be good for all front end kit, just like the PF40 & 30s both are. They just aren't in a fancy rack mounting case looks to be about the only difference :eyebrows:

I think you made a wise choice Brian, I'm looking forward to receiving the other two ;)