Technics SL 1600/1700/1800

[Techno Commander]

I have been looking at the Technics SL 1600/1700/1800 turntables on the bay and these appear to offer a lot of turntable for reasonable money. For the small ammount of vinyl I have, it probably isnt worthwhile investing in a 1210, but one of these may be a viable alternative.

I believe the difference between these is auto/semi auto/manual operation, although the auto function can be "switched off". Is either of these preferable over the others, or is it a case of just trying to find the best one for a decent price?

[Effem]

I keep eyeing these decks up as well although I don't play vinyl that often and I already have an Akai DD that I don't use much already :lol:

[DSJR]

The decks you mention have a stiffly sprung sub chassis in the form of the top plate being attached to the feet and the bottom "tray" containing motor and arm section suspended from springs attached around each foot. Isolation is better than the standard rubber "bells" on the previous range (1300/1400/1500/150 mk1) but the overall sonics are similar - big and beefy but maybe not the "grip" of the current quartz locked model.

Don't despair though, as the sound is really good, if a little "dark toned." If my 150 and memories of the numerous 1700's we sold are anything to go by, the Timestep/Herbies mat balances the bass up (the supplied heavy rubber mat works ok too, but with more bass than perhaps it should be). the arms are massier than the current ones and work perfectly with moving coil cartridges.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/SL1700review.jpg

[Techno Commander]

Sounds ideal for some of the punishing tunes I have on vinyl. :eek::)

[DSJR]

I sold loads of SL1700's (auto return) and the auto trip is very gentle - as good as a Dual IMO. These decks often were sold with Ultimo (now Dynavector) 20A's and 10X's, a great sound being achieved to me..

These decks are waking up on the used market now, so prices won't be the bargain £30 - £50 any more. They're still excellent buys at £100 though, although spares are no longer available.

P.S. Regarding spares, it's the 13/14/1500mk2 cueing devices which fail and although someone was looking into making a repair kit of some sort, I don't think this has materialised - it's a pain to strip out too. This doesn't apply to the decks above.

[jandl100]

I have a Techie SL1800 that I recently bought on eBay for £85.
My rebodied Denon 103 works superbly in it, I honestly have not heard it seeming happier - I don't miss my old Techie SL1210 at all, in fact I think it sounds better than that ever did. It gives the best sound I have ever had from vinyl, imho. :)

My original plan was to down-size/-price/-sq my tt cos I didn't use it much and I was getting fed up with naff used LPs ... but my love of vinyl has been reinvigorated by going from a 1210 to a 1800, not diminished.

For me, the reduction in 'grip' that Dave mentions has increased the natural musical flow giving a more relaxed and natural result.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/TechnicsSL-1800Denon.jpg

[Hypnotoad]

I really like my SL1700 that I picked up cheaply, I also think it sounds more musical than a stock SL1200 Mk2, but that may be mental illness on my part.:lol:

The auto return part is great for me as I often fall asleep while listening to my favorite albums.

[DSJR]

The sprung suspension must help a bit over the rubber-footed examples..

The recommendation for the Herbies/Timestep mat definitely still stands though.

[Marco]

Indeed - that's why Isonoe feet (which are sprung) are an absolute must initial tweak for a stock SL-1200/1210 ;)

Marco.

[Alex_UK]

Is the PSU better sited in the 1600/1700/1800 (etc.) than the 1200/10 too? That may also explain some of the difference over the stock 1200/10?

[chris@panteg]

Or better screened perhaps , because the metal cover in the 1200 clearly doesn't work.

[DSJR]

The transformers on earlier ones were softly mounted UNDERNEATH to top plate and I can assure you - no hum!

[Marco]

It's not simply a matter of hum, Dave. In fact, hum isn't really an issue.

It's about removing or shielding the effect of eddy currents, generated by the PSU (and motor) underneath the platter, from the operating area above of the cartridge, which significantly degrades sound quality.

This is one of the main reasons why fitting an off-board PSU is so sonically beneficial, as when doing so, one source of eddy currents (the PSU) is removed from underneath the platter, and thus the sonic performance of the T/T is notably improved, not only from the removal of the effect of eddy currents, but from the T/T having a 'stiffer', fully regulated power supply.

This benefit would therefore apply to all Technics T/T models, not just the SL-1200/1210.

Marco.

[DSJR]

Eddy currents cause hum don't they? The current 12**'s are far different in their supply needs I think and the screening from above is pretty good on the 150 and relatives.

[Marco]

Yes, but the negative sonic effect of having a PSU (and motor) underneath the platter doesn't translate as hum (IME, there is no hum that one can hear); it translates itself as a 'squashing' of dynamics and 'thickening' of the sound, which significantly degrades the SL-1200's sonic performance (or that of any direct-drive T/T which has a PSU underneath its platter).

Removing the stock PSU from underneath the platter, and fitting a high-quality off-board PSU, tidies up the presentation no end, enabling the listener to hear much more musical information on recordings, and in a way which is rendered as more realistic :)

I don't believe that older Techincs T/T models would benefit any less from the above than current models.

Marco.

[Beobloke]

I believe the difference between these is auto/semi auto/manual operation, although the auto function can be "switched off". Is either of these preferable over the others, or is it a case of just trying to find the best one for a decent price?

The one you want is the one with as much automation as possible, hence from the models you mention, it simply has to be the SL-1650 - one of Technics' many direct drive AUTOCHANGERS!! :lol:

Below is my SL-1960 to get you drooling and, yes, I do have the autochange spindle for it...

Being serious for a moment (if I must...:ner:) I doubt if you will find all that much sonic difference between the three variants if you are intending to keep them as standard. Obviously a manual variant is a must if you are intending to change the arm at any point, or even if you had a re-wire in mind but if the deck is to be left as standard then I wouldn't worry too much. To be honest, if it is for "second deck" duties then the handiness of an auto return at least can never be underestimated. I tend to use my Sony Biotracer more than my 301 when I'm not listening seriously as it's just so much more convenient!

A final thought is that the MkII versions of the 1500/1600/1700 are superior in design and performance but they tend to be dearer and also apparently can have issues with a tiny belt that operates the arm cueing, rendering it inoperative. These are allegedly difficult to obtain when they break and an absolute pig to fit, so check the cueing carefully if you find a MkII.

[Marco]

Hi Adam,

Love your SL-1960! :respect:


A final thought is that the MkII versions of the 1500/1600/1700 are superior in design and performance but they tend to be dearer and also apparently can have issues with a tiny belt that operates the arm cueing, rendering it inoperative. These are allegedly difficult to obtain when they break and an absolute pig to fit, so check the cueing carefully if you find a MkII.

Interesting... I bow to your superior knowledge in that area, as those models were in existence long before I 'got into' Techies, but the question I would ask is why?

What makes them "superior in design and performance"? I'm looking for details of specific technical or material features, in terms of their respective designs, which confirm your claim.

This, incidentally, is simply for the benefit of my Techie education.

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

[Beobloke]

I forget the specifics as it’s been a while since I had my head under the bonnet of one, but the MkIIs had a number of improvements, including improved motor control which was operated using front panel buttons and an LED display This was also quartz locked rather than the Servo control type of the mkIs. Interior damping was better and the plinth was given a wooden surround which just made them more solid and better damped. Much as the originals are good decks, they are a bit plasticky.

Basically they were just better built, nicer to use and sounded, to my ears, tighter and better focused. Sadly, they never did any MkII autochanger variants!

[DSJR]

It was the 1300/1400/1500 mk2's which suffered the most from broken cueing devices, rendering the auto functions on some of these useless as well. I believe it was Technics' first attempt at adjustable arm height (slacken a thumb nut on the bearing "C" section and pull/push same, locking it when done). There's a wide nylon "collar" around the pillar underside which fractures and these are currently unavailable.

We were Linn dealers by the time the 1600/1700/1800mk2 models came along and you know the rest once the old fruitbox appears on the scene ;)

[Virak]

One of the cool things about the Mk2 of the SL-1800/1700/1600, is that a lot of the SL-1200Mk2 mods work on them. Same motor, platter and arm.

I've got an SL-1610Mk2, and will be modding it with a KAB fluid damper and power supply (plus rewire, etc). These decks are just as good as the SL-1200Mk's, IMO.
Some might find them better, as the sound signature is a little less "dark". And the double suspension system works very well, too.
For reference, I've own an SL-1700Mk2, SL-120Mk2, and several SL-12x0Mk2's as well.

A buddy has an SL-1700 (Mk1), and while it's a pretty good deck, the Mk2's are superior, IMO. Better constructed, and a much more flexible arm.

-Tom

[DSJR]

How do you mean "Flexible Tonearm?" Is it the height adjustment you refer to? We sold many 1700mk1's with Dynavector 10X and 20A cartridges and they worked brilliantly. I suspect other high output MC's would do the same today.

[Virak]

How do you mean "Flexible Tonearm?" Is it the height adjustment you refer to? We sold many 1700mk1's with Dynavector 10X and 20A cartridges and they worked brilliantly. I suspect other high output MC's would do the same today.
On the fly height adjustment, plus the fact that the KAB fluid damper fits perfectly. And, IMO, the damper is a significant upgrade.

The Mk1 arm is a bit heavier, but one can always put a heavier headshell (or headshell weights) on the Mk2, if more mass is needed for low compliance cartridges.
Actually, Technics made a set of add-on subweights for the Mk2's (4 different weights, I think, all heavier than the stock 3gr. one), but I've never seen it beeing sold outside of Japan.
I'd like to get the set, though!

[DSJR]

Thanks for the info. I'm assuming that the old arm is less resonant in the beam-mode dept but of course have no way of measuring it ;)

[Alex_UK]

Not sure if anyone might be interested in this - no bids yet, 16hrs to go - with a bit of fettling it could be a bargain with a starting price of £25... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170554774439&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1156

[DSJR]

Grab a bargain while you can... The cueing device isn't the same as on the decks which replaced this series, so should be well usable. A squirt of Servisol to the speed presets and a careful oiling of the bearing and auto linkages and you're away.

[Techno Commander]

The one you want is the one with as much automation as possible,

Would that not provide "more to go wrong"?

Wouldnt the manual version not be a better bet for reliability and sound quality?

[Alex_UK]

Nice looking condition 1700 - boxed with paperwork - £4.99 start... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120656083573&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123#ht_500wt_1156

[DSJR]

The Techie auto bits weren't as elegant looking as the Dual's for example (Dual had this down to a fine art way back in the 60's, showing the likes of Garrard a thing or three), but they were gentle enough on this series (and equally awful on the early mid 70's lower caste models) and did no sonic harm whatsoever IMO. An SL1300 could happily track a Shure V15III if the record wasn't badly warped and there was never any issue with the end-of-side trip mechanism.

[Techno Commander]

Well its only taken me 13 years to pull my finger out and finally get one. :lol:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/vHYAAOSwv25jzZlF/s-l1600.jpg

Now cartridge recommendations please. Currrently the AT VM740ML seems to be doing it for me a little more then the AT OC9 variants at the same price point. I agree the OC9 is a touch more open, but I prefer the presentation of the VM. Seems more lively and engaging to my somewhat knackered ears.

[Techno Commander]

Well I decided the Technics needed a little TLC. It played nicely, but the arm didnt lift when a record ended. The mains lead was only 2 foot long and the original signal leads looked like they were 45 years old (which they were). It also came with 2 cartridges of indeterminable age and use. I originally thoiught of selling both cartridges and putting the proceeds towards something new, however plans never quite end up that simple.

I manged to find some custom made signal leads made from QED silver plated OFC wire for a reasonable price and made up a new replacement mains lead. I also decided to sell the original headshell and bought a rather nice Jelco as a replacement. Both old cartridges and the original headshell sold on ebay quite quickly and in a moment of madness (and an ebay sale) totally spanked the budget and bought an Audio Technica VM740ML for the bargain price of £250.20.

I eventually dropped off the turntable and box of bits to Kornel at BTL audio with a request to make everything good. Yesterday I had a call saying all was done and to come and collect it. He confessed "it was actually done yesterday, but sounds so bloody good, I wanted to listen to it for a bit longer". :lol:

As well as fitting the QED signal leads and mains cable, it had 45 years worth of dust hoovered out of it. The main bearing was cleaned and relubed. The arm lift was adjusted to work correctly. He also cleaned all switches and pots, speed control is now spot on after a couple of minutes of warm up. Considering no quartz lock, thats pretty good. The AT was also fitted and correctly aligned. The only very slight issue is the Jelco is possibly a bit heavy and the counter weight is quite far back. I might need to find an auxillary weight to add to it.

All in all, I am very happy with the turntrable and yes it does sound stunning. :D

For those who like numbers, this is the cost breakdown.

Technics SL1700 £250.00

Sold
Shure M95ED -£67.00
Ortofon MC10 Super -£67.00
Original SH98 Headshell -£39.00
Total £77.00

Purchased
Jelco Headshell £44.99
Signal Cable £32.99
Mains Cable £7.65
Servicing & cable fitting £100.00
Total £262.63

Audio Technica VM740ML £250.20

https://autoshite.com/uploads/monthly_2023_05/IMG_20230517_133108.thumb.jpg.05dd84eb8b455dc607f0 5f992f772e3e.jpg

https://autoshite.com/uploads/monthly_2023_05/IMG_20230517_133035.thumb.jpg.7a9b1ffd08dcb7335f70 a710a83c23dd.jpg

https://autoshite.com/uploads/monthly_2023_05/IMG_20230517_133155.thumb.jpg.6eaa10ccfa3dfab88b4a 6e0c19bc67f6.jpg

[Macca]

Looks great - you keep the stylus guard on your cartridge?

[Techno Commander]

Its still new and I havent got round to fiddling with it yet. :lol:

[Macca]

lol

You got a pic of the whole deck. I like Technics decks.

[Mikeandvan]

I have the 540ml with metal body by RigaB, so basically a 740, a seriously good cart for the money.

[Techno Commander]

lol

You got a pic of the whole deck. I like Technics decks.

Yes, here you go. :)

https://i.imgur.com/tH6Qz6k.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/80aepmt.jpg

[Macca]

Minty mint.