View Full Version : What do you think of the AoS forum?
Good Evening everyone,
The Art of Sound forum was started by Marco, inter alia, nearly twenty years ago, and it has grown to become a large and popular audio and music forum. Many years ago Members were invited to say what they liked about the forum and what it was that they didn't. All comments and suggestions were considered, and where practical were taken on-board.
Like all specialist fora, membership changes: old and frequent posters, for various reasons, move on to pastures new, and are replaced by new members, Whilst nothing much has changed in the time to affect the Forum's popularity, the AoS doesn't want to rest on its laurels. So we are inviting all the current members to say what they like, and don't like about the Forum.
So please come forward with your opinions and suggestions - be honest and frank, all views will be read and considered, especially any suggestions, and no-one will be penalised for any damming criticism.
Over to you now
Thanks
Barry
Been a member since 2008, things have changed dramatically with Marco's absence. It's fairly clear that Marco was the driving force and without him there does not seem to be the same interactions. In saying that whilst I personally have never been nor ever will be a prolific poster, I do tend to look in daily, usually about this time, to check out the topics and occasionally to see who is selling what.
Wakefield Turntables
14-06-2026, 10:34
AOS has lost it's way. Nobody posts anything new, same old stuff which to some extent is not really related to audio. Frankly I'm not interested in "what's for tea".
I appreciate my threads are now multi-decades old so I could be accused of posting the same old gumph about my kit, so I suppose, pot-kettle-black. I think this community has lost it's sparkle. I could say more but it might ruffle a few feathers.
AOS has lost it's way. Nobody posts anything new, same old stuff which to some extent is not really related to audio. Frankly I'm not interested in "what's for tea".
I appreciate my threads are now multi-decades old so I could be accused of posting the same old gumph about my kit, so I suppose, pot-kettle-black. I think this community has lost it's sparkle. I could say more but it might ruffle a few feathers.
No please do say what you think.
As regards off-topic the forum was always envisaged from the start as a community rather than a hi-fi message board so 'off topic' is considered as important as 'on topic'.
I think most of us are fairy settled so we don't often get anything new but when we do we do post about it. Thing is there's only so much that can be said about anything hi-fi.
If you look at a big forum like Steve Hoffman, there's a 175 page thread about a Marantz SACD player. I mean, how much can you say about a SACD player? I've not read it but it can only be pages and pages of pointless waffle. We always wanted quality over quantity here.
rmcin626
14-06-2026, 11:23
After the football earlier this morning, I’m very much in a half glass full mood, I’ve been a member of AoS for just over 10 years, and although I am a member of a few other forums this is the only one I post on. Since covid the forum has changed, Marco is still missing and of course we lost Grant who contributed so much. Grant would usually comment on every post on or off topic and that is greatly missed. There were great debates about many topics which were not music or HiFi related, have a look at the great coffee threads and you’ll see what I mean, bugger all to do with music or equipment.
I usually read everything that is posted regardless of the subject, these days I probably find the music posts most interesting, with the huge variety of music that we all listen to, most days featuring bands or artists I’ve never heard of but that can lead to me investigating new music and artists.
It’s very true to say that the number of daily posts have dropped and the only that change is for the members to post more often.
Just noticed that I have now sneaked over the 6000 posts .
The Great Triumvirate are no longer posting...
Marco, Grant (RIP) and Geoff.
They were the mainstay of the Forum and the most likely ones to add to or spark a debate.
I only post occasionally now too as I've sold all my original system and upgrades to fund other projects ( new windows for the house was one ), and I now just listen to music rather than the kit itself which is far more enjoyable and much less expensive :)
Members come and go and there's many Forums available that people can go where they like.
I myself use 4 HiFi Forums for browsing and posting and I'm sure others use the same ones.
PS: Just checked and I can't believe I've been here since 2014 !
Wakefield Turntables
14-06-2026, 15:36
I think that it speaks volumes that only 3-4 people have added comments to this thread.
I think that it speaks volumes that only 3-4 people have added comments to this thread.
Well you have yet to "ruffle our feathers", so say what you want to say. Whatever it is, we won't hold it against you. :lol:
Pigmy Pony
14-06-2026, 16:18
I think that it speaks volumes that only 3-4 people have added comments to this thread.
I'll get round to commenting at some point, I've been kind of busy with the eleven posts I've made elsewhere on this forum :ner:
I'll put something in here tomorrow, off to watch a film now.
I think Marco was sometimes deliberately contradictory to promote ‘discussion’ (bless him) and the same can be said of Geoff to an extent (why doesn’t he post anymore?).
So what we need to engender more posts is a bit of controversy and confrontation.
I’ll start. Having had a few I think Quad amps are shite (except perhaps the 306).
As you were.
So what we need to engender more posts is a bit of controversy and confrontation.
No we don’t, piss off with your stupid ideas and buy another watch or something. ;)
Joking aside, that is actually a good observation, perhaps we’re all just a bit too nice and laid back?
No we don’t, piss off with your stupid ideas and buy another watch or something. ;)
Joking aside, that is actually a good observation, perhaps we’re all just a bit too nice and laid back?
Yes, I’ve been told I’m very even tempered only resorting to mindless violence if you spill me pint.
Pigmy Pony
14-06-2026, 22:09
I think Marco was sometimes deliberately contradictory to promote ‘discussion’ (bless him) and the same can be said of Geoff to an extent (why doesn’t he post anymore?).
So what we need to engender more posts is a bit of controversy and confrontation.
I’ll start. Having had a few I think Quad amps are shite (except perhaps the 306).
As you were.
That you think Quad amps are shite, yet you've owned a few, says more about you than Quad :ner: The very definition of madness they say! Confrontational enough?:D
That you think Quad amps are shite, yet you've owned a few, says more about you than Quad :ner: The very definition of madness they say! Confrontational enough?:D
Hearing the Luxman was a light bulb moment and then my bank account was empty….
I wrote a lengthy article about Quad in The Knowledge where I commented that after the 303 and 405, Quad 'got it right' with the 306; so not particularly controversial. And when it comes to valve amplification the Quad II is bettered by the Leak ST20, or the Radford STA15 or STA25.
Regarding Geoff, he is the eldest of the Moderators, and probably the eldest Member as well. I occasionally give him a call
He has moved from West London to the wildes of Kent, where he is working on a new speaker design. Progress is slow, but he may show the results here when it is finished. :)
Lawrence001
14-06-2026, 23:18
This is my favourite forum as I find it easy to get on with everyone, but maybe that's because there aren't many people to fall out with anymore. Seriously if we could just have 20x more regular posters different enough in character to provide more variation but not so different as to cause constant friction then it would be perfect for me. So just get the numbers up and keep the rest the same is what I'd like. Easier said than done of course.
I wrote a lengthy article about Quad in The Knowledge where I commented that after the 303 and 405, Quad 'got it right' with the 306; so not particularly controversial. And when it comes to valve amplification the Quad II is bettered by the Leak ST20, or the Radford STA15 or STA25.
Regarding Geoff, he is the eldest of the Moderators, and probably the eldest Member as well. I occasionally give him a call
He has moved from West London to the wildes of Kent, where he is working on a new speaker design. Progress is slow, but he may show the results here when it is finished. :)
What age is Geoff? Bet the design he's working on is a full range unit, think he gave up bass when he sold his Cheviots.
What do I think of AoS?
It is like a comfy pair of old slippers.
It is not as lively as it was. I still visit regularly though, although I do post more on other fora now.
What age is Geoff? Bet the design he's working on is a full range unit, think he gave up bass when he sold his Cheviots.
I don't know exactly, but I would imagine 80, or thereabouts.
Pigmy Pony
15-06-2026, 06:47
This is my favourite forum as I find it easy to get on with everyone, but maybe that's because there aren't many people to fall out with anymore.
No, it's because the wrong 'uns don't last long, and there have been one or two.
Thanks for your comments so far Guys. It good to know that most of you, so far, are happy with the Forum as it is. But what we were hoping for is suggestions and ideas in order to increase the traffic and activity.
I don't think AoS has lost its way, and just stating the obvious in that three of the most prolific posters are no longer active is something that we are all aware of, and is not particularly helpful.
We could of course just plod along as we are, but I was hoping for some ideas that would attract new members and hopefully increase posting activity.
Pigmy Pony
15-06-2026, 07:53
Thanks for your comments so far Guys. It good to know that most of you, so far, are happy with the Forum as it is. But what we were hoping for is suggestions and ideas in order to increase the traffic and activity.
I don't think AoS has lost its way, and just stating the obvious in that three of the most prolific posters are no longer active is something that we are all aware of, and is not particularly helpful.
We could of course just plod along as we are, but I was hoping for some ideas that would attract new members and hopefully increase posting activity.
IMO AoS as a community audio and music forum is unique and just about perfect. It's the rest of the world that's wrong. I'll put my thinking cap on, but it no longer fits right since I lost all my hair :(
We're all music enthusiasts on here, we just don't bang on about it 24/7. If I browse other forums it's like spending time in an unfamiliar town, and returning here is like coming home to family and friends :)
Not very helpful I know. Sorry about that.
Pigmy Pony
15-06-2026, 08:18
What about some low-cost promotional products bearing the AoS logo? Ofc I don't know how low-cost it would turn out to be. I'd chuck a few quid towards getting it going.
Maybe something that could be worn by members attending audio shows, bake offs etc. to get the name out there and to help identify us to each other at such meets.
I like the branded key-locator fobs, I'm always losing my keys :wheniwasaboy:
https://www.vistaprint.co.uk/promotional-products?srsltid=AfmBOopCyEto0E7HrM7wiR7cwMrVKOFEU Nwu03F93ma32tALCnHfkemW
Wow that's a bit 'left field ', but I admire the boldness of your thinking. It would need to be something completely visible such as a T-shirt or baseball cap; neither of which look good on me. But that’s not to discourage others.
“Make AoS Great Again” baseball caps could work! :lol:
“Make AoS Great Again” baseball caps could work! :lol:
I'll have 2 please :D
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20260615/791c067569fb65120c191cb3424c6b24.jpg
Maelstrom
15-06-2026, 11:52
Afternoon All,
As someone who joined/engaged relatively recently – and who was frankly a bit nervous about dipping a toe back into the hi-fi world after decades away – I hope my perspective might be useful.
What's kept me here: The patience. Honestly, I came in knowing almost nothing about modern gear, streaming, or even what I wanted. Not once did anyone make me feel stupid. The advice has been thoughtful, the disagreements civil, and the collective wisdom genuinely staggering. That's rare online, and it's worth protecting.
What might put newcomers off – and I'll be honest here: The forum looks old. Really old. The colour scheme, the layout, the fonts – it feels like a site that hasn't had a visual refresh since the early 2000s. For a younger or more design-conscious potential member, that might be enough to click away before reading a single post. I don't say that to be cruel – just truthful. A cleaner, more modern skin would work wonders.
Structure-wise: It could also do with a bit of a reorganising. There are a lot of sub-forums, some of which feel very quiet. I'd suggest:
*Archiving threads that haven't seen a reply in, say, five years. Not deleting – just moving to a read‑only archive.
*Regrouping similar topics.
*A single, prominent "Start Here" or "New Member? Read This First" sticky. One place, not more.
Ideas to enliven things:
*A monthly "listening diary" thread – what did you actually *listen to* this month, not what gear did you buy?
*A show-and-tell for second-hand bargains. Everyone loves a good "look what I found on gumtree/FB/ebay for £50" post.
*Maybe a buddy system? Pair a newer member with an old hand for a few weeks to help with a specific project. I'd have killed for that.
One small thing: The "Jokes & Funnies" section is great, but it's a bit buried. A weekly pinned humour and a 'Rant' thread on the main board might remind people that this hobby is supposed to be *fun*.
But honestly? You're doing something right. I came here lost, lonely in a new house, and not sure I still loved music. Now I have a system that makes me smile every evening. That's down to the people here, not the software.
Happy to help if any of these ideas are worth pursuing.
All the best,
Alistair
---
Pigmy Pony
15-06-2026, 12:24
“Make AoS Great Again” baseball caps could work! :lol:
Or "Piggurs was right about everything" That works for me :)
Pigmy Pony
15-06-2026, 12:36
Actually, "Marco was right about everything" would be a better fit. Certainly right more times than Draft-dodging, war-losing, hopefully-not-long-for-this-world Donald.
Afternoon All,
As someone who joined/engaged relatively recently – and who was frankly a bit nervous about dipping a toe back into the hi-fi world after decades away – I hope my perspective might be useful.
What's kept me here: The patience. Honestly, I came in knowing almost nothing about modern gear, streaming, or even what I wanted. Not once did anyone make me feel stupid. The advice has been thoughtful, the disagreements civil, and the collective wisdom genuinely staggering. That's rare online, and it's worth protecting.
What might put newcomers off – and I'll be honest here: The forum looks old. Really old. The colour scheme, the layout, the fonts – it feels like a site that hasn't had a visual refresh since the early 2000s. For a younger or more design-conscious potential member, that might be enough to click away before reading a single post. I don't say that to be cruel – just truthful. A cleaner, more modern skin would work wonders.
Structure-wise: It could also do with a bit of a reorganising. There are a lot of sub-forums, some of which feel very quiet. I'd suggest:
*Archiving threads that haven't seen a reply in, say, five years. Not deleting – just moving to a read‑only archive.
*Regrouping similar topics.
*A single, prominent "Start Here" or "New Member? Read This First" sticky. One place, not more.
Ideas to enliven things:
*A monthly "listening diary" thread – what did you actually *listen to* this month, not what gear did you buy?
*A show-and-tell for second-hand bargains. Everyone loves a good "look what I found on gumtree/FB/ebay for £50" post.
*Maybe a buddy system? Pair a newer member with an old hand for a few weeks to help with a specific project. I'd have killed for that.
One small thing: The "Jokes & Funnies" section is great, but it's a bit buried. A weekly pinned humour and a 'Rant' thread on the main board might remind people that this hobby is supposed to be *fun*.
But honestly? You're doing something right. I came here lost, lonely in a new house, and not sure I still loved music. Now I have a system that makes me smile every evening. That's down to the people here, not the software.
Happy to help if any of these ideas are worth pursuing.
All the best,
Alistair
---
Thanks for your reply Alistair. A lot of your suggestions make sense: too many sub-fora; archiving old threads, and simplifying navigation around the Forum.
I'm not sure I agree with you regarding the look of the Forum. Maybe we could update the banner, but the background colour is easy on the eye, and I can't see anything wrong with the font. To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't know how to make those changes if I could - it's all above my paygrade.
We already have threads for Bargains on eBay (which I originated) and a similar thread for car bootsale bargains. Agree the Jokes and Funnies needs to be more prominent. A 'Rant' thread might be promising, but it would have to carefully monitored to prevent it getting out of hand.
Thanks for your suggestions, it is exactly the response I was looking for when I started this thread.
It has just dawned on me that your comments about the font only applies to "The Art of Sound" title in the banner that heads each page. As to the background colour and font of the posts themselves, well I find the very pale cream colour restful and easy on the eye - I don't like a pain white background, apart from when composing replies. Maybe the ochre colour of the border could be changed.
Are you in the design business Alistair? If so perhaps you could come up with some alternative 'looks' for us to consider.
Thanks again.
At some point, the forum also needs to be made GDPR compliant?
Pigmy Pony
15-06-2026, 16:35
No idea what that is.
It is a General Data Protection Regulation.
In today’s digital age, data protection has become a crucial concern for individuals and organisations alike. The General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) plays a significant role in safeguarding the privacy rights of individuals within the European Union (EU). However, with the United Kingdom’s departure from the EU, it has introduced its own version of the GDPR known as the UK GDPR.
Basically, more hoops for forums to jump through to make the data safe.
At some point, the forum also needs to be made GDPR compliant?
I think we already are: apart from forum names, members are asked for their given names and that is all. Addresses are only given in PMs, and if inadvertently given in a post (for example when buying or selling an item of gear or a record or CD), it is deleted a.s.a.p.
We did have a case recently of a member who contacted me by PM (it's a mystery how) stating his membership had been cancelled and he could no longer login. He asked for all his posts to be permanently deleted as was his right under the GDPR. His wishes were carried out.
But to make sure I'll talk to appropriate parties to find out how the GDPR applies to specialist fora.
Pete The Cat
16-06-2026, 08:14
If we were looking at this as a business we might begin by looking outside first, as in what is being consumed and how is it being consumed.
I say that because AoS is a hi-fi forum that includes music. But as a general consumer interest one of those is not what it used to be.
It's among three forums that I look at every morning. The other two cover music and hi-fi - and for them music comes first. It feels to me that the liveliest thread in AoS is Spinning Today...
So one message from this would seem to be to expand the coverage of music. That's what's ultimately being consumed.
Back to my first point and 'how', a lot of folks access great quality audio much cheaper than we used to (and hence don't bother with big box hi-fi) because of desktop units and headphones. So another message would seem to be to get into small/mobile hi-fi.
Finally though, while Barry's original question is welcome, I think it's also for us as members/visitors to contribute more. I sometimes wonder where the 'users online' figures comes from, it can't all be bots or North Korean surveillance.
Cheers.
Finally though, while Barry's original question is welcome, I think it's also for us as members/visitors to contribute more. I sometimes wonder where the 'users online' figures comes from, it can't all be bots or North Korean surveillance.
Cheers.
Members logged in is never a high figure but the numbers viewing is usually in the hundreds. It's possible to check how many are bots. It's about 10 percent of the total. Lots of people read forums they are not members of, or they are members but view without logging in.
Shouldn't be underestimated how many read the forum even if they are not members. For example my review of the TEAC 701T transport has been up for less than three years, there's only 99 posts but there's 56 thousand views. My review of the Sony TAE-1000ESD preamp has been up for two years almost to the day, only 9 replies, but over twenty thousand views. For a pre-amp that was discontinued in 1990.
Cheap upgrade for Michell Gyrodeck - 9 years, half a million views.
Allo Audio Streamer review, 9 years, over three hundred thousand views.
If you compare to a newspaper (at least in their heyday) you had millions of people reading but only maybe fifty contributors. Forums are similar.
Pete The Cat
16-06-2026, 09:50
If you compare to a newspaper (at least in their heyday) you had millions of people reading but only maybe fifty contributors. Forums are similar.
That sounds logical.
With a lot of issues people ask 'what's the person in charge going to do about this'. My point is that with many things in life the answer isn't just to look to someone in charge to sort things out, part of the solution is on us, the people. Be the change that you want to see in the world, and all that. So maybe as well as the practical stuff like refreshing the website etc another part of the answer is for contributors to see it as their role to contribute more new threads.
I should just add in answer to the original question that there's much to like about AoS. Above all the culture is very welcoming.
Pigmy Pony
16-06-2026, 16:36
That sounds logical.
With a lot of issues people ask 'what's the person in charge going to do about this'. My point is that with many things in life the answer isn't just to look to someone in charge to sort things out, part of the solution is on us, the people. Be the change that you want to see in the world, and all that. So maybe as well as the practical stuff like refreshing the website etc another part of the answer is for contributors to see it as their role to contribute more new threads.
I should just add in answer to the original question that there's much to like about AoS. Above all the culture is very welcoming.
I agree with all of that, Pete. It's on us, all of us, to do our bit. I've managed to get 18,000 posts under my belt whilst knowing bog all about hifi and how it works :)
We are certainly getting various 'vibes' about the AoS. Let's have some more comments and suggestions: good, bad or indifferent.
So far all I can say is that the Membership can divided into three groups: those that are proactive; those that are merely reactive, and those that are downright apathetic.
I agree with all of that, Pete. It's on us, all of us, to do our bit. I've managed to get 18,000 posts under my belt whilst knowing bog all about hifi and how it works :)
You have already shown what it takes to be part of the AoS community, as envisaged by Marco. You participate in the discussions on various subjects, not just 'Spinning Today', but many others for which your imaginative and sometimes cheeky sense of humour is a bonus.
We don't expect Members to be experts on anything in particular, but if anyone has questions there is usually someone here who can provide an answer.
I appreciate this is a member driven forum and as such we rely on ourselves to post interesting topics.
The discussion forums seem to be trending towards the higher end leaving the more available items behind. I am in the league of Marantz, Denon, Technics with occasional forays (when I can get away with it) to Audiolab and Naim. But I would love to re-aquaint myself with valve (tube) technology. However this trend is largely my own fault as I don't contribute items on the equipment I own or buy as I don't think they will be intersting or specialised enough. Am I wrong here? Contrarywise, I also like to read of exotic kit as well.
I am also interested in DIY Hi-Fi, cables, pickup arms, amps and other hardware, including stands etc.
I usually browse the classifieds and have bought from here in the past. Unfortunately lately the equipment for sale has become more exotic (read expensive) so I have curtailed my purchases.
We cannot grumble about the forum if we don't contribute - as I said it it up to US to make it work, the moderators facilitate our efforts and they are doing a good job.
So to precis: keep it generally as it is, it is like a familiar magazine and we will alter it if we have the inclination. At least this is a friendly forum, no one tries to score points or belittle my lack of knowledge. So the membership is what will keep it alive.
Pigmy Pony
16-06-2026, 19:43
We are certainly getting various 'vibes' about the AoS. Let's have some more comments and suggestions: good, bad or indifferent.
So far all I can say is that the Membership can divided into three groups: those that are proactive; those that are merely reactive, and those that are downright apathetic.
Not sure which of those three groups I belong to, also not sure if I can be bothered to find out :)
It's all very tricky Barry, I for one like it just as it is, though I know it could be better with more active members. Time for more thinking caps, the member coming with the best suggestion wins a brand-new CD of Little Barrie/Malcolm Catto "Quatermass 7". I'll even pay the postage.
Not sure which of those three groups I belong to, also not sure if I can be bothered to find out :)
Well I think Barry just permanently lost the third group with his wonderful bedside manner!
Well I think Barry just permanently lost the third group with his wonderful bedside manner!
Yes, but they won’t be arsed to complain about it so that’s ok!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well I think Barry just permanently lost the third group with his wonderful bedside manner!
:eek:
Can't believe I have been a member of the forum since 2008 but only 700+ posts :doh:
I originally joined all those years ago as I found the HiFi and music sections interesting and vibrant.
Like most forum's now adays, they tend to drift off into areas that I do not find remotely interesting - hence why so few posts.
Also, not just AoS but many of the older HiFi forums, they can come across as very clique.
I do visit the site nearly everyday but the majority of the posts are not for me so I do not join in.
Do I plan to leave? Not really as every now and again something comes along that piques my interest :)
Pigmy Pony
16-06-2026, 22:43
Can't believe I have been a member of the forum since 2008 but only 700+ posts :doh:
I originally joined all those years ago as I found the HiFi and music sections interesting and vibrant.
Like most forum's now adays, they tend to drift off into areas that I do not find remotely interesting - hence why so few posts.
Also, not just AoS but many of the older HiFi forums, they can come across as very clique.
I do visit the site nearly everyday but the majority of the posts are not for me so I do not join in.
Do I plan to leave? Not really as every now and again something comes along that piques my interest :)
No, it just looks like a clique because it's the same half a dozen or so who are bothering to post. I reckon if I browsed some of the other forums I would find similar. Just with different names.
Andy, looking at your signature, there's an awful lot of interesting kit there, and I'm betting there are some noteworthy stories, experiences, triumphs, mistakes, etc behind that little lot. I'm also betting that it is the kind of thing that would be of interest to you if only someone else had taken the trouble to write about it ;)
If you put into print whatever piques your interest, You might end up piquing others' interest, and so it goes around :)
Edit: forget about paragraph 2 - perhaps the issue is the sheer number of forums in existence, and I can quite understand if someone was reluctant to post in detail about their kit on more than one forum.
Maelstrom
17-06-2026, 06:47
Morning all,
This thread got me thinking. I've seen the same thing happen in other forums I used to frequent – classic cars, woodworking, you name it. And I'm fairly convinced Facebook has played a big part in the decline.
The problem: Facebook groups are easy. You log in, you scroll, you ask a quick question, you get a quick answer. No registration, no learning the etiquette, no wondering if you're posting in the right sub-forum. It's instant gratification. The downside, of course, is that it's shallow. The advice is often questionable, there's no permanence (good luck searching for that thread a week later), and the sense of community is fleeting at best.
The opportunity: Forums do what Facebook can't. Depth. Archives. Genuine relationships built over years. When I joined here, I didn't just get an answer – I got a journey. People remembered my room, my budget, my tastes. That doesn't happen on Facebook.
So how do we compete?
1. Double down on what makes forums great. Encourage longer, thoughtful posts. Showcase the archive. When someone asks a question that's been answered brilliantly ten years ago, link to it. That's a superpower Facebook simply doesn't have.
2. Make the forum easier to find. When Google sends someone here with a question, we need to be visible. We need to be the place that turns up in search results. That's still how most people discover forums.
3. Lower the friction a little. A more modern interface would help. A shorter, simpler sign-up process. A clear "welcome" path that doesn't overwhelm.
4. Remind people that this is a community, not just a helpdesk. The off-topic stuff, the banter, the shared stories – that's what keeps people coming back long after their original question is answered.
Facebook won't go away. But we don't need to beat them. We just need to be better at being us.
Just a thought.
Alistair
A more modern interface would help. A shorter, simpler sign-up process. A clear "welcome" path that doesn't overwhelm.
Agree Alistair, I've never been a fan of the AoS look myself, its always had that old man look about it. I thought that 15 years ago, so today it looks really dated. But that’s subjective.
Pink Fish Media has a good look, smart, minimal and easy to navigate. Not being able to like a post by just clicking a thumbs up is quite limiting. It's very efficient, you can let people know you like or agree with something, without having to post a full reply - it encourages people to post. If you spend time answering someone's question and get met with tumbleweed, how likely are you to bother again? That can happen here and I find it quite rude, I know it doesn't bother others, but it's a feature on every other forum I visit. It makes you feel you are not wasting your time.
The issue here though, is transferring the forum to another platform or upgrading the look would need an investment in time and a degree of technical knowledge. So that's probably a bar too high.
I think that’s a great suggestion though :)
willbewill
17-06-2026, 11:26
I don't mind the current layout of the site on a desktop/laptop but... on a mobile device it's horrible to use. If it was upgraded to VBulletin 6 it would be mobile optimised - as a lot (probably most) people view via their mobile devices nowadays I'm sure this would help.
https://www.vbulletin.com/en/overview
Pete The Cat
17-06-2026, 11:32
Not being able to like a post by just clicking a thumbs up is quite limiting. It's very efficient, you can let people know you like or agree with something, without having to post a full reply - it encourages people to post. If you spend time answering someone's question and get met with tumbleweed, how likely are you to bother again? That can happen here and I find it quite rude, I know it doesn't bother others, but it's a feature on every other forum I visit. It makes you feel you are not wasting your time.
If this was a brainstorming workshop in an office the above would go straight onto the 'quick wins' list on a nice yellow sticky.
Of course, the technical IT issues of implementing it may be more complicated than I imagine, but I agree that it would be impactful.
Just had a look at PFM. Yes it looks modern, the 'avatars' are smaller, there is minimal information about the posters, but the text on a white background make it look quite ordinary, without any 'style'. I don't find it easier to read - quite the opposite in fact.
PFM doesn't seem to have a heading banner. I agree the AoS banner could do with a refresh, but I don't how this could be done here.
Agree Alistair, I've never been a fan of the AoS look myself, its always had that old man look about it. I thought that 15 years ago, so today it looks really dated. But that’s subjective.
Pink Fish Media has a good look, smart, minimal and easy to navigate. Not being able to like a post by just clicking a thumbs up is quite limiting. It's very efficient, you can let people know you like or agree with something, without having to post a full reply - it encourages people to post. If you spend time answering someone's question and get met with tumbleweed, how likely are you to bother again? That can happen here and I find it quite rude, I know it doesn't bother others, but it's a feature on every other forum I visit. It makes you feel you are not wasting your time.
The issue here though, is transferring the forum to another platform or upgrading the look would need an investment in time and a degree of technical knowledge. So that's probably a bar too high.
I think that’s a great suggestion though :)
I believe that with any new thread there is an option to have a "like thumbs up" attached. Anyone who replies to the posts can avail themselves of that option. There is also an option to have rating option (displayed as 1 to 5 stars).
Have a look at the Maverick forum Barry.
Choice of views (dark theme etc.), mobile friendly and you can "like" posts.
Sure, it is not perfect, as unless you are careful, you get notified about all new posts for threads you have posted in.
The reason PFM looks how it does was due the way it was hosted not complying when the new GDPR rules that came in a while back, Tony had to update everything and it ended up how it is today.
Have a look at the Maverick forum Barry.
Choice of views (dark theme etc.), mobile friendly and you can "like" posts.
Sure, it is not perfect, as unless you are careful, you get notified about all new posts for threads you have posted in.Hate the dark theme on the Mav and no option to change it :(
No, it just looks like a clique because it's the same half a dozen or so who are bothering to post. I reckon if I browsed some of the other forums I would find similar. Just with different names.
Andy, looking at your signature, there's an awful lot of interesting kit there, and I'm betting there are some noteworthy stories, experiences, triumphs, mistakes, etc behind that little lot. I'm also betting that it is the kind of thing that would be of interest to you if only someone else had taken the trouble to write about it ;)
If you put into print whatever piques your interest, You might end up piquing others' interest, and so it goes around :)
Edit: forget about paragraph 2 - perhaps the issue is the sheer number of forums in existence, and I can quite understand if someone was reluctant to post in detail about their kit on more than one forum.
Points taken - I will post some more over the next few weeks :)
The reason PFM looks how it does was due the way it was hosted not complying when the new GDPR rules that came in a while back, Tony had to update everything and it ended up how it is today.
Tony did a good job, I like the xenForo (https://xenforo.com/) format and because it's popular, people are familiar with it. If they pop onto another forum, there's no learning curve if it's another XF one. But again, that's subjective on what you prefer. vBulletin 4 is getting quite old now.
Probably needs a tech savvy admin to import the data from vBulletin, but vBulletin 3.6 to 5.3 are supported for data imports into XF in case anyone wonders?
Tony did a good job, I like the xenForo (https://xenforo.com/) format and because it's popular, people are familiar with it. If they pop onto another forum, there's no learning curve if it's another XF one. But again, that's subjective on what you prefer. vBulletin 4 is getting quite old now.
Probably needs a tech savvy admin to import the data from vBulletin, but vBulletin 3.6 to 5.3 are supported for data imports into XF in case anyone wonders?
I'm not a tech savvy - far from it. In fact I don't even know what the various techie terms mean: platforms; servers; etc. All I know is how to post, start and close threads, and edit the same. We do have a couple of tech savvy Members here, who help out when problems arise.
Can anyone tell me exactly what it is they like about the look and presentation of the PFM forum. To me it looks anodyne, perfunctory and lacking in style. So just me then?
Pigmy Pony
17-06-2026, 17:05
Hate the dark theme on the Mav and no option to change it :(
Not keen on it either. Looks like my car's sat nav at night.
Can anyone tell me exactly what it is they like about the look and presentation of the PFM forum.
pfm [sic] is just an example Barry, many forums have a similar look these days. As to why people like it, well that would be like trying to explain why Tales from Topographic Oceans is a great album :)
Not keen on it either. Looks like my car's sat nav at night.
So is the "dark theme" white text on a dark background - or is it something entirely different?
Lawrence001
17-06-2026, 20:33
I've been using Tapatalk for years to browse AoS, it makes it very nice to read and very simple to navigate. I believe quite a bit of work was put into the forum to make it work with Tapatalk (but I could be wrong). It seems a shame not to leverage off this and encourage people to use Tapatalk rather than invest money we don't have in a new format/hosting site.
I've been using Tapatalk for years to browse AoS, it makes it very nice to read and very simple to navigate. I believe quite a bit of work was put into the forum to make it work with Tapatalk (but I could be wrong). It seems a shame not to leverage off this and encourage people to use Tapatalk rather than invest money we don't have in a new format/hosting site.
I can’t remember now if it was a lot of work Lawrence, but I certainly agree it is the best way to view the forum - I probably use my iPad or iPhone 95% of the time, and no need to use an image hosting site as Tapatalk does all that for you. I can’t remember how much it was for a lifetime subscription but as you can use it for any compatible forum it is well worth it in my opinion, plus predictive text helps (though sometimes not!)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Pigmy Pony
17-06-2026, 22:04
A couple of questions regarding Tapatalk:
Is Tapatalk only for iPhones/iPads? My phone is a six year old Huwawei with Google stuff on it. All of my photos are on there. And how much does it cost?
Looks like it is available on the Play store, and I think there is a free tier, but you will get ads I expect.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.quoord.tapatalkpro.activity&hl=en_GB&pli=1
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Just read some of the reviews on that link…. Doesn’t read great to be honest! [emoji853]
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Tapatalk isn't great on Android, much better on an iPad - having said that, if you've never tried both you won't know that.
Same with JRemote for JRiver MC, much better on Apple than Android. I'm actually at the point where my Android tablet is about to die and I may replace it with an iPad. Never thought I'd do that, but then Android isn't what it used to be, Google are wringing the life out of it as an O/S.
Tapatalk seems to be hit and miss for me tonight, I think I jinxed it!
I guess give it a try and see how you get on with it, Steve, or anyone else curious.
Pigmy Pony
18-06-2026, 06:21
Thanks guys, I'll look into it later when I get home.
But having slept on it I'm thinking it could be a bit tricky for me - my brother pays for my mobile phone use (sim only) as a perk of working for his company (which I left ten years ago ;)). I'd be reluctant to do anything that is going to remind him of this... in my defence he borrowed my £450 nail gun two years ago, and each time i need to use it I have to go and "borrow" it back, then return it when I'm done. Family, eh?
rmcin626
18-06-2026, 08:44
I only use Taptalk on my IPhone, when out and about, too be honest I tried it on my iPad but don’t like the look prefer to use the main site on my iPad, I must look into Taptalk a bit more as I only use it for AoS on my phone.
For Tapatalk, there is this thread. Old but might be helpful.
https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?6090-AOS-Is-Now-TapaTalk-Compatible
Thanks Greg, that’s helpful!
Tapatalk makes it so much easier to browse the various Forums and it's also much easier to post images too.
Yo Timbo (and others),
Some good suggestions, particularly from Alastair, some of which we'll look into implementing. I agree that the forum is looking a little 'tired' now, and steps will be taken to address this.
However, there's no way we'll be turning AoS into some cold faceless clone of Facebook, or as much as I like pfm, the very much 'IT-led' style of how things are done there. Also, and this is something important to consider, AoS is a place for people who don't live on their mobile phones!
Nothing wrong with that of course, but to get the best experience, come here when you're not stressed out, you have some time on your hands, and can sit back on a comfy armchair with a glass of something nice, in front of a laptop, tablet or PC. That's my 'MO'.
AoS was always designed to be different and to shirk the norm, so the 'homely' feel we have here is a big part of that. Think of us as a comfy country pub, selling real ales, and very much socially distanced from the Wetherspoons lot!:cool:
We are an antidote to the rat race:)
Marco.
Great to have you back mate!
Cheers, mate. Hope you're well:)
Marco.
Lovely to see you back Marco. (Knew there was a reason I shaved the Parmesan on to my pasta last night).
Lol, cheers, mate. Good seeing you on your travels again. You know how to enjoy yourself! :respect:
Marco.
Patrick Dixon
22-07-2026, 19:07
Marco, it's good to see you back and hopefully OK.
Lawrence001
22-07-2026, 21:02
Yo Timbo (and others),
Some good suggestions, particularly from Alastair, some of which we'll look into implementing. I agree that the forum is looking a little 'tired' now, and steps will be taken to address this.
However, there's no way we'll be turning AoS into some cold faceless clone of Facebook, or as much as I like pfm, the very much 'IT-led' style of how things are done there. Also, and this is something important to consider, AoS is a place for people who don't live on their mobile phones!
Nothing wrong with that of course, but to get the best experience, come here when you're not stressed out, you have some time on your hands, and can sit back on a comfy armchair with a glass of something nice, in front of a laptop, tablet or PC. That's my 'MO'.
AoS was always designed to be different and to shirk the norm, so the 'homely' feel we have here is a big part of that. Think of us as a comfy country pub, selling real ales, and very much socially distanced from the Wetherspoons lot!:cool:
We are an antidote to the rat race:)
Marco.Bloody hell is that really you Marco or some imposter that's hacked your account? If the latter they're doing a good impersonation but with AI it's quite possible these days.
The world seems to have changed so much while you've been away! Not necessarily for the better either.
Marco, it's good to see you back and hopefully OK.
Hi Patrick, thanks. I'm ok and doing much better now:)
I still have some mental health issues, resulting from the effects of long Covid, which need managed with meds.
Marco.
Bloody hell is that really you Marco or some imposter that's hacked your account? If the latter they're doing a good impersonation but with AI it's quite possible these days.
The world seems to have changed so much while you've been away! Not necessarily for the better either.
I'm curious to know in what way?
Yes, 'tis I. I've missed you guys:)
Marco.
hifi_dave
23-07-2026, 14:26
I had to look twice at Marco's first return post because I could barely believe my eyes. Yes, he has returned and very welcome. Just hope he's not AI..:hmm:
I'm curious to know in what way?
Yes, 'tis I. I've missed you guys:)
Marco.The rant style is Marcosian. As an AI I fully confirm it.
:D
Dude. Greetings.
Firebottle
23-07-2026, 20:12
Hi Patrick, thanks. I'm ok and doing much better now:)
I still have some mental health issues, resulting from the effects of long Covid, which need managed with meds.
Marco.
So glad you have come through, notwithstanding the issues stated.
It has been a while, my situation has changed dramatically, as has the stereo.
Welcome back.
Justers,
Yoo knowz da truth, dudekins:respect:
Marco.
So glad you have come through, notwithstanding the issues stated.
It has been a while, my situation has changed dramatically, as has the stereo.
Welcome back.
Cheers, Alan. We'll need to have a catch up:cool:
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
23-07-2026, 20:33
Welcome back!
Cheers, Andrew:thumbsup:
Marco.
The Black Adder
24-07-2026, 11:18
Hey Mah, mannn, Marco.
Great to see you back my friend. Brilliant!
Sent from my moto g13 using Tapatalk
Hey Mah, mannn, Marco.
Great to see you back my friend. Brilliant!
Cheers, Jo. It's good to be back:)
Marco.
Lawrence001
24-07-2026, 18:53
I'm curious to know in what way?
Yes, 'tis I. I've missed you guys:)
Marco.I was thinking primarily of AI as I mentioned but there's Trump 2, Ukraine, the Middle East and several changes in PM to name a few more.
Lawrence001
24-07-2026, 18:54
Oh and I forgot to say it's good to have you back in all my excitement [emoji23]
Justers,
Yoo knowz da truth, dudekins:respect:
Marco.I think I meant Marconian, not Marcosian.
Autocorrect shit almost got me posting the same mistake twice!
Whatever, bro.
Mental health issues?
Don't worry. We've all got them to a greater or lesser extent;)
The correct adjective is "Marcian".
Pigmy Pony
24-07-2026, 21:17
I was thinking primarily of AI as I mentioned but there's Trump 2, Ukraine, the Middle East and several changes in PM to name a few more.
And of course that family, they've had one or two things going on, including the dodgy bloke formerly known as Prince.
I was thinking primarily of AI as I mentioned but there's Trump 2, Ukraine, the Middle East and several changes in PM to name a few more.
Can't stand AI, it's yet another new technology that will lead to the ruination of mankind! :trust:
New technology is great, until it gets misused...
Marco.
And of course that family, they've had one or two things going on, including the dodgy bloke formerly known as Prince.
Can't stand them either, especially, paedo-boy, Andy Pandy. The only ones I have any time for are Diana's two and Princess Anne.
Marco.
Great idea baseball cap but no USA flag rather an England, Wales, Scotland and NI flags perhaps
southall-1998_mk2
27-07-2026, 14:35
Welcome back, Marco.
S.
Hi Patrick, thanks. I'm ok and doing much better now:)
I still have some mental health issues, resulting from the effects of long Covid, which need managed with meds.
Marco.
Hi Marco, so glad to see you back and hope you're coping okay these days (nobody told me you'd returned and two of them are friends of mine) - grr! In my all-but-retirement from subjective based audio (I now have quite severe hearing issues which totally prevent me 'trusting my lugs' in any way now and hearing aids don't effin' work when listening via speakers :( ), I've backed off forums now apart from one, which is measurement based but maybe a bit blind to how said measurements should be *interpreted,' especially where speakers are concerned (and amps can't simply be judged on their sinad figures either, but I digress).
Hope you're still able to enjoy it all and in the meantime, I'll return to my addiction to Angine de Poitrine (thank gawd for YouTube), this bonkers pair of brilliant musicians just about keeping me sane these days... Take care
Hi Dave,
Really good to hear from you again, and sorry to hear about your hearing. I'm coping fine. I've found that posting here again is good for my head space:)
Take care, old chap, and look after yourself.
Marco.
Hi Dave,
Really good to hear from you again, and sorry to hear about your hearing. I'm coping fine. I've found that posting here again is good for my head space:)
Take care, old chap, and look after yourself.
Marco.
I'll tell ya summat guv'nor, I've brought my 12" singles down and with the help of herself and son, have sorted them in alphabetical order, catalogued them all (there's way more than the 200 I thought I had, more like double from the 80s and 90s) and am ready to wind up the Rega3 in the second system to play them - the original EBLT helps get the speed right - at long bloody last! (headphones and iems [just some inexpensive 7Hz Zero 2s] tend to beat the hearing issues a bit and as herself dislikes the stuff I play in any case - cough...). LPs coming in from the cold as well (what's got into her? :D ) and space to be made with Kallax units in the understairs cupboard for them.
Whatever the crap I've come out with in the past as regards 12" vinyl, my eyes really do now appreciate the sleeve artwork and with a half decent pickup (nothing fancy), I enjoy playing them now the 'hobby side' of all this has been put to one side and surface noise isn't really an issue now.
Whatever discussions and arguments we've had over the last eighteen years and counting (I think it is), the MUSIC is what counts and whatever it's played on, it has saved me in recent times.
Best regards, I'll look in from time to time if that's okay, D
Can't stand AI, it's yet another new technology that will lead to the ruination of mankind!
New technology is great, until it gets misused...
Marco.
I have a visceral hatred of AI Marco and won't use it - Barry seemed to think you can't avoid it, but I'm having a bloody good go!
I ditched Microsoft over 4 years ago, stopped using Google over a year ago and I don't use WhatsApp or any other 'tech bro' social media apps. I still don't have a TV and have zero smart devices in my home. If something needs an app to use it, I won't buy it. I'm happy to be an AI Luddite :D
I have a visceral hatred of AI Marco and won't use it - Barry seemed to think you can't avoid it, but I'm having a bloody good go!
I ditched Microsoft over 4 years ago, stopped using Google over a year ago and I don't use WhatsApp or any other 'tech bro' social media apps. I still don't have a TV and have zero smart devices in my home. If something needs an app to use it, I won't buy it. I'm happy to be an AI Luddite :D
Did I say that? Clearly you can avoid AI as you have, but 'apps' on smartphones can be useful. We use several: from WhatsApp to talk to my partner's family in Cameroon, to looking at the timetable for local buses, or posting on this august Forum.
I agree Barry, some apps on phones are very useful, I use Signal instead of WhatsApp which is exactly the same functionally, the only difference being Signal don't collect any user data like Meta do. The core code is the same as it was developed by the same guy, Brian Acton.
I know I sit outside the norm when it comes to using tech, I just dig a bit deeper before I click accept. I try to keep my phone as a phone and rather than use an app, I use my computer instead which I have total control over - that's becoming outside the norm these days too as a lot of people use their phone for everything. It's not as convenient using a PC but I prefer it that way and yes, I do know that's odd . . . but I am odd :)
Pigmy Pony
29-07-2026, 09:03
I agree Barry, some apps on phones are very useful, I use Signal instead of WhatsApp which is exactly the same functionally, the only difference being Signal don't collect any user data like Meta do. The core code is the same as it was developed by the same guy, Brian Acton.
I know I sit outside the norm when it comes to using tech, I just dig a bit deeper before I click accept. I try to keep my phone as a phone and rather than use an app, I use my computer instead which I have total control over - that's becoming outside the norm these days too as a lot of people use their phone for everything. It's not as convenient using a PC but I prefer it that way and yes, I do know that's odd . . . but I am odd :)
Disagree with that - I don't find using the PC at all inconvenient, or odd - much easier to navigate, quicker, and I find the content easier to control. I have no plans to move any of my PC tasks over to my mobile phone, including posting on here :)
Sent from my HP PC using two fingers.
Hmm, I'm not sure my PC would fit in my pocket so I could use it down the beach to do something, that's more like what I meant Steve . . . but yeah I much prefer to use a PC.
My friends and family think that's odd :D
EDIT:
I should perhaps add my dislike for AI isn't so much AI, which if used correctly could be of great benefit to humanity, but unfortunately it's not in the hands of people who see it that way. So I'm not against AI at all, it's the dick waving tech companies who are vying to be at the top. I'm hopeful we may see some sense and put proper guardrails in place, instead of the no rules race that's going on right now.
Disagree with that - I don't find using the PC at all inconvenient, or odd - much easier to navigate, quicker, and I find the content easier to control. I have no plans to move any of my PC tasks over to my mobile phone, including posting on here :)
.
Likewise. Often don't even bother to take my phone with me if I go out. I notice when I'm on the train I'm usually the only one not staring intently at their phone. I mean, what's wrong with looking out the window?
I got the train from Liverpool to Crewe a while back and it was very busy, had to stand in the area by the doors. This did give me a chance to see what some of the people were so engrossed in. One youth was watching the cricket. Another was scrolling through designer sportswear for sale.
EDIT:
I'm hopeful we may see some sense and put proper guardrails in place, instead of the no rules race that's going on right now.
No chance.
I prefer to use my laptop when posting here, as I can open several pages at a time and 'cut and paste' between them; something I cannot do with my smartphone. However my version of Word on the laptop does not have an automatic correcting spell checker, nor can I readily type accented characters, or those from, say, Cyrillic or Greek. :(
Being a wireless laptop, I might have difficulty using it on the beach. :lol:
However my version of Word on the laptop does not have an automatic correcting spell checker, nor can I readily type accented characters, or those from, say, Cyrillic or Greek. :(
:
I can see how that would be a huge limitation :)
No chance.
Yeah, I think you're right Martin.
I was trying to be positive as I get told off all the time about my negative views on AI, but as one of the lead developers of OpenAI said, after he left when they released ChatGPT for the general public (can't remember his name), "We've fucked up big time" I really do think we have.
I leave my phone at home all the time - I love it. I'm very tempted to get a basic Nokia and never take the smartphone out of the house, as long car journeys could be tricky without some kind of way to summon help. But going out locally, I never take my phone.
Pigmy Pony
29-07-2026, 10:22
I prefer to use my laptop when posting here, as I can open several pages at a time and 'cut and paste' between them; something I cannot do with my smartphone. However my version of Word on the laptop does not have an automatic correcting spell checker, nor can I readily type accented characters, or those from, say, Cyrillic or Greek. :(
Being a wireless laptop, I might have difficulty using it on the beach. :lol:
:D What is it with yours, Tims, and Chris Rea's obsession with the beach? Got to be the worst place to be taking any kind of tech, too sandy and too many opportunist thieves about.
I don't like taking my mobile with me anywhere, and if it weren't for the sat nav I probably wouldn't bother.
:D What is it with yours, Tims, and Chris Rea's obsession with the beach? Got to be the worst place to be taking any kind of tech, too sandy and too many opportunist thieves about.
Oh it's not so bad, can be tricky when the tide comes in though :)
https://i.postimg.cc/jSLcw3vm/beach.jpg
Yeah, I think you're right Martin.
I was trying to be positive as I get told off all the time about my negative views on AI, but as one of the lead developers of OpenAI said, after he left when they released ChatGPT for the general public (can't remember his name), "We've fucked up big time" I really do think we have.
I leave my phone at home all the time - I love it. I'm very tempted to get a basic Nokia and never take the smartphone out of the house, as long car journeys could be tricky without some kind of way to summon help. But going out locally, I never take my phone.
When I went with Steve to collect his speakers we were using the sat nav on his phone, but being a red hot day after a few hours it was giving out an overheating warning so we switched to the sat nav on my phone. During the course of the journey we were talking about cats. Next day I boot up my PC, what's in my news feed? Loads of articles about cats. Coincidence?
Coincidence?
Nope, no coincidence whatsoever Martin, I have tested this out with my nephew who disbelieved me when I told him. What is funny and might make Barry laugh, is that our 'test subject' was Tom Waits, which was my idea. He was really shocked when he got Tom Waits across his feeds, as he was in the dark about Tom beforehand.
You can bypass this by not using a Google Andoid O/S but that's technically challenging for a novice - most people don't really care though.
Pigmy Pony
29-07-2026, 11:58
:eek: That is really unsettling. Are you saying that they are listening to private conversations via our mobile phones?
:eek: That is really unsettling. Are you saying that they are listening to private conversations via our mobile phones?
Yes. Not when it's just sat in your pocket but if you have an app on the go, like satnav.
Obviously it isn't humans who are listening so listening is the wrong word, but it will monitor and profile you from what it detects.
I can't say as I care but it is unsettling.
There have been times when certain words I have used here on AoS have cropped up on subsequent news feeds. It was after having mentioned Rolex watches on Roy's watch thread, that I started to get adverts from jewelers selling said watches, as well as from the official Rolex website.
And of course encouragement to bid on an item mentioned on the "Bargains on eBay" thread.
I often type in the names of music artists mentioned on "Spinning Today ", simply to find an image of the cover; usually from either Amazon or eBay, but there is never any reminder afterwards, or encouragement to buy.
I don't use any of the social media sites, so I'm probably safe from Big Brother and the risk of falling down the AI rabbit hole. That aspect of AI is the most worrying.
(And no, I don't use my laptop away from the house. It's a wireless device and I wouldn't know how to connect it to another network: regardless if it is on the bus, in a cafe or pub, let alone a beach!)
Are you saying that they are listening to private conversations via our mobile phones?
As Martin says Steve, it's not really a 'they', it's an algorithm collecting profile data - it's nothing new, been happening for years. Ever wondered how Shazam gets results so quickly? Google now asks you about listening for music and so many apps get installed where the user happily clicks accept without actually knowing what they are saying yes to and giving the app consent for. So we are actually saying it's OK, without really thinking it through.
My issue is normally a point of principle, in that it's hard to say no and we are not really given a choice anyway, it's all done by stealth. It should be very clear what you are agreeing to and you shouldn't be penalised for saying no.
As Martin says Steve, it's not really a 'they', it's an algorithm collecting profile data - it's nothing new, been happening for years. Ever wondered how Shazam gets results so quickly? Google now asks you about listening for music and so many apps get installed where the user happily clicks accept without actually knowing what they are saying yes to and giving the app consent for. So we are actually saying it's OK, without really thinking it through.
My issue is normally a point of principle, in that it's hard to say no and we are not really given a choice anyway, it's all done by stealth. It should be very clear what you are agreeing to and you shouldn't be penalised for saying no.
A lot of these apps are 'free' but of course they're not really giving it you for nothing.
Like adverts on Youtube, you can pay not to have them. I won't pay so I have to put up with them. That seems fair enough to me. I don't expect to get a service for nothing.
I don't expect to get a service for nothing.
Me neither Martin, I'd happily click a pay button rather than get something free and have my data harvested as the payment. Unfortunately that's not usually an option.
Pigmy Pony
29-07-2026, 13:45
As Martin says Steve, it's not really a 'they', it's an algorithm collecting profile data - it's nothing new, been happening for years. Ever wondered how Shazam gets results so quickly? Google now asks you about listening for music and so many apps get installed where the user happily clicks accept without actually knowing what they are saying yes to and giving the app consent for. So we are actually saying it's OK, without really thinking it through.
My issue is normally a point of principle, in that it's hard to say no and we are not really given a choice anyway, it's all done by stealth. It should be very clear what you are agreeing to and you shouldn't be penalised for saying no.
I have wondered about Shazam before, but came to my own conclusion about how it worked. I decided it must be a recording device that converts analogue to digital and by referring to a database can identify a particular song. I thought this after hearing a live band one time doing a cover of Hotel California. I Shazam'd it, but it had no idea what the song was, despite it being a pretty faithful version.
Of course you or Martin will tell me what is really going on, and I would welcome that :)
Me neither Martin, I'd happily click a pay button rather than get something free and have my data harvested as the payment. Unfortunately that's not usually an option.
Yes they make more money with the data I suppose.
I don't really care. They're not going to sell me anything because I have no money to spend and I'm not doing anything dodgy, so they can harvest away.
I have wondered about Shazam before, but came to my own conclusion about how it worked. I decided it must be a recording device that converts analogue to digital and by referring to a database can identify a particular song. I thought this after hearing a live band one time doing a cover of Hotel California. I Shazam'd it, but it had no idea what the song was, despite it being a pretty faithful version.
Of course you or Martin will tell me what is really going on, and I would welcome that :)
I can tell you but only because I looked it up :)
Yes, it samples the waveform and compares to a database.
And you wonder why I don't use Smartphones?:doh:
They'll get fook all to 'harvest' from me!
Marco (happily leads a Smartphone-free life).
Hi Tim,
As Martin says Steve, it's not really a 'they', it's an algorithm collecting profile data...
Yes, but ultimately it's humans who are using the collected data, for whatever questionable reasons. I refuse to be controlled in that way.
My issue is normally a point of principle, in that it's hard to say no and we are not really given a choice anyway, it's all done by stealth. It should be very clear what you are agreeing to and you shouldn't be penalised for saying no.
Indeed. Are you addicted to your Smartphone? If not, bung it in a drawer for a week and see how much your life improves.
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
29-07-2026, 18:48
Hi Tim,
Yes, but ultimately it's humans who are using the collected data, for whatever questionable reasons. I refuse to be controlled in that way.
Indeed. Are you addicted to your Smartphone? If not, bung it in a drawer for a week and see how much your life improves.
Marco.
I could do that, easily. It's my laptop I'd struggle without.
Are you addicted to your Smartphone?
Absolutely not Marco, that's why I put very few apps on it, I use it like a phone as I don't have a landline. The only app I would regard as essential would be Signal for keeping contact with friends overseas. Other than that all it's got are two apps (JRemote and Qobuz) for remote controlling my music, a weather app and OSM as I don't use Google. I keep getting very near to ditching it completely for a flip phone, but Signal is the only real friction point. I use GrapheneOS as well - I work hard to do my best at protecting my privacy, but I don't want to live in a cave. As mentioned I leave it at home most of the time. I take a book with me not a phone.
I couldn't live without my computer though, I still use a desktop computer which not only controls my life, doing all the things others do on their phones, but it's entertainment too - I enjoy messing about with them, building them etc., I'm also a casual gamer.
I think hi-fi forums, not just this one, are nothing like as good as they used to be.
The bake off scene is largely dead across a lot of them.
I am not sure why that is. But I loved it and held a few myself.
I was semi-contemplating developing something very 2026 with AI agents and various other features hitherto unseen.
The truth is I don't think it is financially viable/worth the effort.
I just think the whole online forum thing is a shadow of its former self.
Pink Fish/Audio Abattoir/Maverick or what used to be the Wam etc just don't feel as cool as they used to.
Maybe familiarity just breeds contempt?
Hi Tim,
Yes, but ultimately it's humans who are using the collected data, for whatever questionable reasons. I refuse to be controlled in that way.
Indeed. Are you addicted to your Smartphone? If not, bung it in a drawer for a week and see how much your life improves.
Marco.Sounds cool in concept.
Impractical in 2026.
I think hi-fi forums, not just this one, are nothing like as good as they used to be.
The bake off scene is largely dead across a lot of them.
I am not sure why that is. But I loved it and held a few myself.
I was semi-contemplating developing something very 2026 with AI agents and various other features hitherto unseen.
The truth is I don't think it is financially viable/worth the effort.
I just think the whole online forum thing is a shadow of its former self.
How much are we talking here Justin?
Sounds cool in concept.
Impractical in 2026.
Might be possible to have the best of both worlds soon, a private smartphone that doesn't track you, so you don't have to lock it in a drawer. GrapheneOS have partnered with Motorola and as I understand it you will be able to buy a non Google Android phone without having to install the OS yourself. Hasn't happened yet but it's supposed to be on the way. You can buy a Fairphone right now with Murena OS on it, it's not as secure as Graphene, but it's not a Google Android.
It's not a hugely difficult task to do it yourself, but you need a Google Pixel phone as that's all Graphene works on currently, so that's a hurdle by itself. Then you effectively replace the firmware and install the new OS. But it is probably a step too much for most people. But if you can buy a Motorola with Graphene out of the box, you have a phone that's not constantly sending data back to mother. But obviously you have to be mindful of what apps you use. If the first thing you do is install the Google play store and all your favourite apps, you've totally balls it up. You can however create a separate user profile which is sandboxed and go that route for installing normal apps, but I'm probably talking gobbldy goop now for most!
I could do that, easily. It's my laptop I'd struggle without.
I like my laptop, too... However, you know how long I've been away from here (best part of 5 years), and in all that time I never once used a computer (yes I see Smartphones as computers), and although ill, I still managed to function as normal.
Marco.
Absolutely not Marco, that's why I put very few apps on it, I use it like a phone as I don't have a landline.
Lol, we still have our landline, and it gets used to keep in touch with friends, etc. I keep an old 'burner'-style phone in the car in case something happens, and that does me:)
I couldn't live without my computer though, I still use a desktop computer which not only controls my life, doing all the things others do on their phones, but it's entertainment too - I enjoy messing about with them, building them etc., I'm also a casual gamer.
Fair enough, mate. Just don't allow yourself to be brainwashed by technology.
Marco.
Sounds cool in concept.
Impractical in 2026.
Not really, dude. It depends on your lifestyle. I simply don't need a Smartphone; it wouldn't enrich my life in any way:)
Marco.
I use the camera on mine, it's pretty good, and have used the sat nav a handful of times. Prefer a map but people don't tend to keep a map book in the car anymore.
My father had a very fancy leather bound AA map book. It predated the motorways but he would still use it rather than buy an up to date one. Got lost a few times as a result.
Just don't allow yourself to be brainwashed by technology.
Marco.
I don't think you've really understood what I'm saying or mean, or I'm not explaining myself well if you think I would allow technology to brainwash me.
But I'll leave it there ;)
Prefer a map but people don't tend to keep a map book in the car anymore.
I do . . . would never be without one and I plan a route beforehand as well :)
My AA road atlas is 26 years out of date. I have two sat navs: one is built into the car, the second is a Gamin (which needs an update) but is good enough for me. A road atlas is of no help for the 'last mile': finding a particular road in a town or city, whereas you can't get lost with a sat nav.
Pigmy Pony
30-07-2026, 07:38
I use the camera on mine, it's pretty good, and have used the sat nav a handful of times. Prefer a map but people don't tend to keep a map book in the car anymore.
I have a large-size AA map book in the house, sometimes I look at it just because I like looking at maps :) Macca, next road trip we do (prob NEBO) I'll bring it and we can find our way there old school, with you navigating. Ofc if we get lost it'll be your fault :)
I have a large-size AA map book in the house, sometimes I look at it just because I like looking at maps :) Macca, next road trip we do (prob NEBO) I'll bring it and we can find our way there old school, with you navigating. Ofc if we get lost it'll be your fault :)
Done that so many times I know the way there now anyway!
Pigmy Pony
30-07-2026, 08:34
Done that so many times I know the way there now anyway!
Fair point.
What a sat nav can tell you (and a map can't) is shortest route/fastest route/most economical route, also advance warnings of traffic hold ups. Much as I like maps, there's no denying the practicality of sat nav.
With the mention of maps, I'm minded of the 'relief' maps our school would have hanging on the wall. Nice and lumpy. I wonder if they are still being made/sold? I think I'd like one :)
Fair point.
What a sat nav can tell you (and a map can't) is shortest route/fastest route/most economical route, also advance warnings of traffic hold ups. Much as I like maps, there's no denying the practicality of sat nav.
With the mention of maps, I'm minded of the 'relief' maps our school would have hanging on the wall. Nice and lumpy. I wonder if they are still being made/sold? I think I'd like one :)
We had some of those at my junior school, displayed in the main corridor. I think they'd been made and donated by a former pupil. They were fantastic. I wonder if they are still there 50 years on.
I don't think you've really understood what I'm saying or mean, or I'm not explaining myself well if you think I would allow technology to brainwash me.
But I'll leave it there ;)
I do, mate. I know you're not brainwashed, but you could become so in future if you get in too deep.
You'll know you're brainwashed when technology becomes an addiction, and you're not addicted, so all is cool:)
Marco.
I use the camera on mine, it's pretty good, and have used the sat nav a handful of times. Prefer a map but people don't tend to keep a map book in the car anymore.
My father had a very fancy leather bound AA map book. It predated the motorways but he would still use it rather than buy an up to date one. Got lost a few times as a result.
The cameras are the best bits about them, but then you can buy a separate digital camera for that job. Love maps, some of the old ones are fabulous!
We use the built-in sat nav in our car for local trips, and maps for longer ones. The problem with sat navs is that they always want to take you towards motorways, which we hate, as you see bugger all, and we're rarely in a hurry to go anywhere. I know this can be adjusted in the settings, but I can't be arsed looking.
Marco.
The thought of pootling around on A or B-roads doesn't appeal to me. I prefer to use motorways as I can put my foot down, drive at 80mph for the most part whilst listening to the ICE.
Maps are no good for the "last mile", that of finding a particular address, whereas sat navs will direct you there without problem.
But then I don't enjoy driving: I will use public transport as much as possible.
The cameras are the best bits about them, but then you can buy a separate digital camera for that job. Love maps, some of the old ones are fabulous!
We use the built-in sat nav in our car for local trips, and maps for longer ones. The problem with sat navs is that they always want to take you towards motorways, which we hate, as you see bugger all, and we're rarely in a hurry to go anywhere. I know this can be adjusted in the settings, but I can't be arsed looking.
Marco.
When I was with Arriva I used to make route maps for the drivers who were picking up or delivering vehicles. Which they loved as my predecessor did sweet FA for them. Only one, who was quite young, had his own sat nav (he was also into hi-fi) the rest were old boys who wanted it on paper.
I'd use RAC route planner, sometimes that would advise getting a ferry to France or Ireland, driving across them, then getting a ferry back to England. Just to avoid travelling on B roads. Total madness, but that was 20 years ago I'm guessing they're better now.
Maps are no good for the "last mile", that of finding a particular address, whereas sat navs will direct you there without problem.
But then I don't enjoy driving: I will use public transport as much as possible.
This is true but that's where your 'A to Z' would come in handy. Been in rep's cars where they'd have a dozen or more of them, one for each city.
I hate public transport, I suppose the train isn't so bad but buses are out of the question. I'd rather walk it, which I do.
The thought of pootling around on A or B-roads doesn't appeal to me.
Lol, you're just not a 'driver', Barry, are you?:D
I find motorways tediously boring, as I like to encounter some corners now and then, and put the Brabster though its paces, rather than going in a straight line for miles on end!:rolleyes:
Pootling? You can have a lot of fun at 60mph on country roads...:eyebrows:
Also, you get to see some lovely scenery on A and B roads, not to mention find some great little country pubs en-route. If you get hungry on a motorway, what do you do? I wouldn't touch the overpriced dirge served at service stations with a bargepole.
I love driving, but only when there's something worth seeing. Maps? We use them almost exclusively on our trips to France and Italy, so we can go 'off piste', and we've found some cracking little places over the years as a result, which we'd have otherwise missed on motorways:cool:
Public transport? That means mixing with the great unwashed, old chap, and being at the beck and call of a timetable - you can keep that!:nono:
Marco.
This is true but that's where your 'A to Z' would come in handy. Been in rep's cars where they'd have a dozen or more of them, one for each city.
I hate public transport, I suppose the train isn't so bad but buses are out of the question. I'd rather walk it, which I do.
A dozen or so 'A to Z's? I wouldn't have room for them, and the only one I have for London, being spiral bound, is falling apart. As long as you know the full address a sat nav will take you there. However if you only know the post code, the sat nav will only take you to the centre of post code.
A dozen or so 'A to Z's? I wouldn't have room for them, and the only one I have for London, bring spiral bound, is falling apart. As long as you know the full address a sat nav will take you there. However if you only know the post code, the sat nav will only take you to the centre of post code.
Yes a sat nav is better, I'm just pointing out that we did have effective ways and means before they came along.
Indeed. However, it's precisely for those 'A to Z moments' that we use the sat nav.
Barry, no thoughts on post 158?:)
Marco.
When I was with Arriva I used to make route maps for the drivers who were picking up or delivering vehicles. Which they loved as my predecessor did sweet FA for them. Only one, who was quite young, had his own sat nav (he was also into hi-fi) the rest were old boys who wanted it on paper.
I'd use RAC route planner, sometimes that would advise getting a ferry to France or Ireland, driving across them, then getting a ferry back to England. Just to avoid travelling on B roads. Total madness, but that was 20 years ago I'm guessing they're better now.
Sorry, mate, when you say "they're", do you mean B roads or ferries?
Marco.
This thread has deviated significantly from my original intention. Obviously it is wonderful to have Marco posting here again - and displaying AoS's notorious thread drift, but if there are no more suggestions from Members as to how we can improve the Forum, increase traffic and attract new members, then perhaps it ought to be closed.
Not at all, mate. Thread drift is what it's all about, as that's how real-life conversations evolve. No-one sticks rigidly to the same topic of conversation in a pub, do they?:)
And I'd still like your thoughts on post 158 (second time of asking now), specifically what you dislike about driving.
Marco.
Sorry, mate, when you say "they're", do you mean B roads or ferries?
Marco.
Route Planners :lol:
Lol, it wasn't exactly clear.
Marco.
. . . . as to how we can improve the Forum, increase traffic and attract new members, then perhaps it ought to be closed.
So you want to close the thread that is actually increasing current forum traffic?
:scratch:
So you want to close the thread that is actually increasing current forum traffic?
:scratch:
The increase in traffic is entirely due to Marco's return. What I was looking for were ideas on how to improve the Forum, attract new members, as well as increasing traffic.
Not at all, mate. Thread drift is what it's all about, as that's how real-life conversations evolve. No-one sticks rigidly to the same topic of conversation in a pub, do they?:)
And I'd still like your thoughts on post 158 (second time of asking now), specifically what you dislike about driving.
Marco.
It wasn't obvious that you had asked a question. But to give you an answer: it is because, IMO, the standard of driving and the courtesy shown to other road users in this country has fallen to an abysmally low level in the last five years or so. I find no pleasure in driving now, and only do it when I have to.
No worries, I thought you might've challenged my post 158, by defending your P.O.V.
But to give you an answer: it is because, IMO, the standard of driving and the courtesy shown to other road users in this country has fallen to an abysmally low level in the last five years or so.
I completely agree... And where are such scumbags usually found? On motorways!:D
Town centres certainly aren't exempt, though. Try some B roads, Barry, you'll find a better class of driver there;)
In any case, a man of distinction, such as you, should be employing a chauffeur! I know you've done it before...
Marco.
So you want to close the thread that is actually increasing current forum traffic?
:scratch:
The other problem is that it could prevent someone from posting on topic, who's enjoying the banter.
Marco.
How much are we talking here Justin?Impossible to state without knowing exactly what you want to do/are aiming for.
Also, I've no experience in developing forum software.
In the brief chat I had with an AI about it, I came to the conclusion I didn't want to do it due to the effort involved.
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