Newly retired, new house, rekindling an old flame (music)

[Maelstrom]

Hello everyone. After years of lurking and admiring from afar, I thought it was finally time to introduce myself.

Life has undergone a bit of a reset recently. I’ve just retired, and sadly, I lost my wife last year. It’s been a quiet, strange time. But in the midst of that, I’ve taken on a project: a new house that I am finally able to model to my own liking.

The first thing I realised is that I have a room that is begging to be a listening space. Which leads me to my problem (and my joy): I’m trying to rekindle a love of music that went dormant for decades. Between raising a family, career pressure, and caring for my wife, the hi-fi sat silent. The CDs became coasters. The turntable became furniture.

Now, I have the time and the space. But I feel like a beginner again. My old system is... vintage (and not in a good way). I want to rebuild not just a stereo, but a relationship with music.

I’m not looking for clinical, analytical sound. I’m looking for emotional sound. The kind that makes you stop what you're doing and just listen.

So, I’m here to learn. I’d love your advice on where to start in 2026. If you were retired, building your dream listening room, and falling back in love with music for the first time in 20 years, what would you buy first? The speakers? The amp? Or just a really good streaming subscription?

Thank you for having me.

[Macca]

Hi Alistair

Your starting point should always be loudspeakers and room. Everything else follows from that.

If you can give us some more details about the space you're going to set up in and the amount of money you're prepared to spend (it doesn't need to be a large amount to get outstanding sound quality) then we can offer some advice.

[Maelstrom]

Hi Martin

Thanks, that's really helpful – and exactly the kind of grounding advice I need. I'm guilty of thinking about shiny boxes first, so I'll take your point: speakers and room first.

Here's what I'm working with:

The room is about 5m x 4m (roughly 16ft x 13ft), with a standard 2.4m ceiling. It's a new build, so currently bare floorboards (I can put down a rug), plastered walls, no soft furnishings yet. One wall has a large window. I'm not able to knock walls about, but I can position furniture and speakers freely.

Budget-wise, I'm thinking £3,000–5,000 to start. That's for speakers + amplification + a source (probably streaming, as I have no CDs or vinyl left). I can stretch a bit if something is a true "keep it for 20 years" investment.

I listen to: classic rock (Floyd, Zeppelin), female vocalists (Nina Simone, Joni Mitchell), jazz (Coltrane, Davis), and some classical – smaller scale, not huge orchestras.

I don't want analytical or fatiguing sound. I want music that makes me feel something. Warm, engaging, maybe slightly forgiving of imperfect recordings.

So with that in mind – what speakers would you put on my shortlist? And would you go standmount or floorstander for a room this size?

Thanks again for the warm welcome.

Alistair

[Macca]

16' x 13' is a decent size space which gives you a lot of options.

Standmount or floorstander doesn't really matter, that configuration isn't really any indicator of what will work or not in any given space.

Most important thing with the room, especially since you want relaxed and non-fatiguing sound is plenty of soft furnishings. If you don't want wall to wall carpet you should aim to cover at least 80 percent of the floor with thick rugs. Likewise, curtains on the windows and some fairly chunky well padded fabric covered seating. This will all damp down reflections that cause glare and fatigue.

For loudspeakers, and I'm guessing you want to buy new, check out Wharfedale Super Linton https://www.wharfedale.co.uk/products/super-linton

Well balanced speaker that tends towards sounding 'warm and relaxed', so easy to listen to, but will still give high fidelity reproduction.

Not saying buy that specific speaker but it's one to use as a benchmark when comparing to others.

Most modern amplifiers will have no problem driving it. There's multiple options there, I'd suggest power output of at least 50 watts which you probably won't need as much but better to have it and not need it.

Look at amplifiers with the inputs you're going to need for your sources, and that have the aesthetics that you like. If you like old school looks the modern Yamaha amplifiers are competent and not over-priced. Again, just a benchmark.

I don't personally use streaming so I'm reluctant to make any recommendations there. Most members here do though, so I'm sure someone will chip in on that with some advice.

[Barry]

Welcome to AoS Alistair.

That is an exciting new project you have going, and Martin has already given you some good advice to start with. I admire the wide range of music you enjoy (very much to my tastes!), so the system should be essentially neutral sounding , but not boring.

Like Martin, I haven't investigated streaming, but there are several people here who have. Again, I am sure they will be willing to advise you.

Welcome again
Barry

[Macca]

Video here about the Linton speakers, not the exact same model but close. Erin knows what he's talking about unlike most reviewers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaxknyOrf3I


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaxknyOrf3I

[Maelstrom]

Thanks for the replies so far, it's most encouraging!

If nostalgia were to bite, would there be any mileage in trying to regain what I had?

The core of it was a Rega Planar 3 with the RB300 arm – I think I had an Audio-Technica AT95E on it for most of its life. Nothing exotic, but it just worked. Amplification was a NAD 3020. I know, everyone and their dog had one, but that little thing drove my speakers surprisingly well.

Speakers were Wharfedale Diamonds – the original Mk I or II, I can't remember now. Sat on rickety Target stands. I had a Yamaha cassette deck (KX- something) for taping records and making mixes for the car. Never bought a CD player until the early 90s – I was a stubborn vinyl holdout.

It wasn't a high-end system by any stretch. But on a Sunday evening with the lights low and Kind of Blue or Rumours spinning? It made me happy. That's all I wanted.

Most of it got sold or given away during a house move in the late 90s. Kind of wish I'd kept the Rega now.

Have things really, noticeably and measurably improved since then (digital sources aside)?

[Macca]

Thanks for the replies so far, it's most encouraging!

If nostalgia were to bite, would there be any mileage in trying to regain what I had?

The core of it was a Rega Planar 3 with the RB300 arm – I think I had an Audio-Technica AT95E on it for most of its life. Nothing exotic, but it just worked. Amplification was a NAD 3020. I know, everyone and their dog had one, but that little thing drove my speakers surprisingly well.

Speakers were Wharfedale Diamonds – the original Mk I or II, I can't remember now. Sat on rickety Target stands. I had a Yamaha cassette deck (KX- something) for taping records and making mixes for the car. Never bought a CD player until the early 90s – I was a stubborn vinyl holdout.

It wasn't a high-end system by any stretch. But on a Sunday evening with the lights low and Kind of Blue or Rumours spinning? It made me happy. That's all I wanted.

Most of it got sold or given away during a house move in the late 90s. Kind of wish I'd kept the Rega now.

Have things really, noticeably and measurably improved since then (digital sources aside)?

Rega Planer 3 with RB300 and AT95E is the exact set up I sorted for a neighbour a few years ago. Deck was vintage from the 1980s. Yes it still sounds good although personally I like Nagaoka cartridges more than AT but he didn't want to spend more.

NAD 3020 was always a good buy as were the old Wharfedale diamonds. You could buy all that back for maybe £600/£800 from eBay. The only caveat is that amp and speakers will be 40 years old so potentially faulty or prone to fail.

Speakers have generally improved and you get more for your money now due to cheaper Far East manufacturing (not just wages but also automated processes and economy of scale). Plus you have a higher budget now, so yes you can get a lot better than that old system if you want to.

[shane]

I’ve been using Wharfedale Diamond 11.1s for the last four years driven by a Quad Vena 2 and they’re ridiculously good for the money. As with most of Peter Comeau’s designs they have the knack of disappearing into the background and letting the music flow without drawing attention to themselves. You find yourself enveloped in the music without really thinking about what’s producing it. I’ve been using it mostly fed by a Bluesound Node 2i using Qobuz and IDAGIO. Whilst it doesn’t quite give me the same emotional involvement as my TT2, it’s close enough to give me a brilliant listening experience.

I’ve not heard any of the new Wharfedale Heritage range but from what I hear they’re pretty special, with the best of them being the Aston, although you’re talking about £1700 or thereabouts.

[Pigmy Pony]

Hi Alistair, welcome to AoS.

My first thought speaker-wise after reading your opening post was Wharfedale Super-Linton, and that was before I'd seen Macca's reply! Might well give you just the sound you're after.

As for amplifier, well, this is one I've been considering as it looks like such a bargain, even though I don't actually need another amp...

https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChsSEwjc6r20ucWTAxWGk1AGHSRdFWMYACICCAEQFhoCZG c&co=1&ase=2&gclid=Cj0KCQjwm6POBhCrARIsAIG58CI_Bspbj1Hqo4Si6VMJ rMMfrnAQi39RB53Mb1jhZ2ca8xFef0gMVtsaAo--EALw_wcB&ei=gEjJaaqhK-awhbIP6qfOoQY&cce=2&category=acrcp_v1_32&sig=AOD64_1J39KzaNRVm489JHjNHtez2jKCgQ&ctype=5&q=&nis=4&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwiq4be0ucWTAxVmWEEAHeqTM2QQ9aACKAB6BAgIE BQ&adurl=

They even do a matching CD player (though there will be other possibly better models at around that price). I know you said you no longer have any CDs, but it wouldn't cost much to get going on a collection.

[Alex_UK]

Welcome from me too, Alistair, happy retirement!

Some good advice above, I am a Wharfedale lover (have a few pairs, including original "Super Diamonds" and Diamond 220's which are a superb more modern take on their tried and tested budget formula) so you won't go far wrong with that stable.

If you do go down the Rega turntable route just remember the price of vinyl can be eye watering sometimes! I stream almost exclusively these days - I have no experience, but the Wiim amps/streamers get great reviews, and are reasonably priced.

[Maelstrom]

Again, thanks for the welcome and advice, it's almost overwhelming!

Parking the nostalgia trip for a while, I've been researching a streaming set up for the past few days. With the plethora of information available, it can be difficult to separate fact from fiction, opinion from experience, adverts from reviews etc.

I'd really appreciate the collective wisdom here before I start spending.

Budget: £3,000–4,000 for the full system (speakers + amp + streaming source). Happy to buy used/ex-demo if that's the smart move.

What I've looked at so far (after reading reviews and lurking here):

Streamers:

WiiM Pro Plus – seems like a no-brainer for the money, but will the DAC let me down?

Bluesound Node (N132) – pricier, but maybe better long-term support and sound quality?

Amplification (integrated, with digital in?):

Cambridge Audio CXA81 – lots of praise, but is it too forward/bright for my taste?

Audiolab 7000A – like the feature set, unsure about musicality

Rega Brio – I know it's analogue only, so I'd need an external DAC. Worth the hassle?

Second-hand Naim Nait 5si – a friend mentioned this, but I worry about maintenance

Speakers (standmount, I think?):

KEF LS50 Meta – everyone raves about them, but will they need a sub in my room?

Wharfedale Linton (with stands) – warm and engaging from what I've read, but huge

ProAc Response DT8 – stretched the budget, but I see them praised for vocals

Second-hand Spendor A4 or A7 – maybe the smarter buy?

The DAC question: If I go with the WiiM + an analogue amp, what DAC would you add? Or should I just buy an integrated amp with a good built-in DAC and simplify?

My main unknowns:

Streamer + separate DAC + analogue amp vs all-in-one integrated streaming amp – which gives better value at this budget?

Standmount vs floorstander in my 5x4m room? I worry floorstanders will boom, but standmounts might lack weight for rock.

What am I missing? Is there a classic, obvious choice I've overlooked?

I'm not in a rush. I want to buy once and buy right – something that will make me fall back in love with music for the next ten years.

Any and all advice welcome. If you'd swap something on my list, tell me why. If I'm being an idiot about something, tell me that too.

Thanks in advance.

Alistair

[Macca]

I'd get a separate streamer rather than a streamer/amp. Don't put all the eggs in one basket.

The DAC in the Wiim has excellent measured performance I don't think that will let anything down but you'll get conflicting views there

Amps can't be forward/bright despite what you might read. The things that matter are - does it have enough power to reach the levels you want without clipping, can it maintain voltage into low impedance?

Sorry to get technical but this is what matters with amplifiers. All the amps you list should work fine with all the speakers you list so I'd choose one based on price, features, appearance.

Regarding the Naim amp the reason people talk about 'maintenance' and 'servicing' with regard to Naim is due to the practice followed by many Naim users of keeping the amplifiers powered up all the time. Capacitor lifetime is rated by hours of use so this will cause early failure. Just switch off when not using it and there's no issue, it will last decades - this applies to all amplifiers not just Naim.

Speakers - more than anything these can offer very different presentations so they are much more a personal choice so much harder to make specific recommendation. This is where you should probably get auditions just to give you an idea of the differences.

KEF LS50 - not a bad speaker at all, I don't think a sub with them is mandatory except for electronic music and pipe organ so if you don't listen to much of that I wouldn't worry. You could always add subwoofers at some future time anyway. They are not on the 'warm relaxed' side though.

Proac DT8 - no idea about that one.

Spendors - on the warm and relaxed side. I don't think they ever made a bad speaker.

Linton we already talked about.

Is there anything overlooked? Possibly. There's thousands of products out there, it's easy to get analysis paralysis but at some point you just have to make a decision and go for it. Nothing you've listed will give you bad sound, just don't overlook the importance of damping down your room with the furnishings or you will find that anything you get sounds bright and fatiguing.

[shane]

Can I put in another plug for the Quad Vena 2? As well as being a brilliant sounding amp with a good phono stage thrown in, it also contains a very decent DAC. Shouldn’t be too hard to find one to listen to.

I wouldn’t bother with the Vena 2 Play though. For some reason IAG have thrown their hat in with DTS, which doesn’t really seem to offer any worthwhile benefits.

[Maelstrom]

Morning all,

My system planning is progressing (thanks to the excellent advice so far), but I've hit a practical roadblock: I'm not sure where to actually buy from. I've been out of the game so long that I don't know who the trusted names are anymore.

I'm looking for recommendations on online retailers and bricks-and-mortar dealers (both in mainland UK and the Dublin area – Although I'm no Roy S, I can get across the Irish Sea occasionally!). I'm open to buying new, ex-demo, or used.

Specifically, I'd love to know:

Trusted new dealers – who offers good customer service, fair returns, and proper packaging?

Used / ex-demo specialists – any dealers with a good reputation for grading accurately and standing behind what they sell?

Online marketplaces – eBay, AVForums classifieds, etc. – any tips on spotting the good sellers?

Ones to avoid – if you've had a poor experience (with a dealer, not an individual), I'd appreciate a discreet heads-up via PM if you'd rather not name names publicly.

I'm currently considering kit from brands like Rega, ProAc, Spendor, Wharfedale, Cambridge Audio, Audiolab, Quad and possibly Naim used. So dealers who handle those would be especially relevant.

I'm based in Ireland but happy to travel for the right deal or to hear something properly.

Thanks in advance for any pointers – I'd rather learn from your experiences than make expensive mistakes.

Alistair

[Pigmy Pony]

If it were me I think I would be shopping at Radlett Audio. Dave the owner (Hifi Dave on this forum) could put together a great system at pretty much any budget I reckon.

Or maybe Fanthorpes over in Hull.

[Barry]

+1 from me for Dave at Radlett Audio.

[User211]

I wonder what a restored pair of Quad 57s would cost these days.

https://aquadthingaudio.com/

Could give them a call.

Then just add a Quad front end.

Just a thought.

It might sound insane to recommend these old ESLs but they are bloody good when you hear a decent pair.

If you must have slam and bass extension go elsewhere. But if you just want to enjoy stuff - really good.

Edit: my brother was in an AirBnb about three weeks ago. He messaged me to say it had a Quad ESL 57 system in it. He was genuinely impressed. 9 years older than me and no stranger to hifi. He'd never heard a pair.

[Barry]

Having owned (and still use) Quad 57 speakers for the last 50 years, I would endorse your recommendation. However, since they are unlike any other type of speaker (apart from other planar speakers), they need to be heard if your experience has been with cabinet enclosure speakers.

Quad 57s are not without their limitations:

They have a limited frequency response, ~ 40Hz - 15kHz.
They don't play loud: ~ 83dB/W, so a maximum of 100dB (which ought to be loud enough, unless you live in a forty acre field, or are a real headbanger).
Can only fed by an amplifier that is stable with largely capacitance loads.
They will be damaged if overdrive with more than 50W.

They also 'beam' badly in the vertical plane, and being a doublet design, are sensitive to room placement: requiring a minimum of 1m between the rear of the speaker and any parallel wall.

That said if you can accommodate these limitations you will be rewarded with a neutral, accurate sound free from colourations.

[Ali Tait]

Hi and welcome from one Ali to another. :-)

Some good advice so far. For streamers I use a Lumin D2 into a Gustard R26 DAC and have no plans to change. I had the Lumin up and running 10 minutes after unboxing it, so if ease of use is a factor it's a good one to consider.

[hifi_dave]

+1 from me for Dave at Radlett Audio.

Thanks lads for the support.

[User211]

Having owned (and still use) Quad 57 speakers for the last 50 years, I would endorse your recommendation. However, since they are unlike any other type of speaker (apart from other planar speakers), they need to be heard if your experience has been with cabinet enclosure speakers.

Quad 57s are not without their limitations:

They have a limited frequency response, ~ 40Hz - 15kHz.
They don't play loud: ~ 83dB/W, so a maximum of 100dB (which ought to be loud enough, unless you live in a forty acre field, or are a real headbanger).
Can only fed by an amplifier that is stable with largely capacitance loads.
They will be damaged if overdrive with more than 50W.

They also 'beam' badly in the vertical plane, and being a doublet design, are sensitive to room placement: requiring a minimum of 1m between the rear of the speaker and any parallel wall.

That said if you can accommodate these limitations you will be rewarded with a neutral, accurate sound free from colourations.I had the clipping lights of a 600Watt class G amp on trying to drive Firebottle's 57's at a bake off.

I think they survived.

[Barry]

The quoted maximum voltage that can be applied to the Quad 57 ESL is 33V RMS. Any more than 45V peak will cause arcing between the stator panels, which will burn a hole in the plastic diaphragm. This is a simple matter of geometry and the dielectric breakdown strength of air. You can't translate this to power in Watts because the effective input impedance of the speaker varies between about 40 Ohm at low frequencies to less than 2 Ohm at high frequencies, so is frequency dependent.

You might well get away with higher power on short transients, but I wouldn't depend on it. One can fit a voltage clamping bridge on the secondary side of the input transformer, but some claim it affects sound quality.

[Jimbo]

Hi and welcome to AOS Alistair.

I have some experience with a fair bit of the equipment you are looking at.

I own the Wiim Pro plus and can certainly recommend it as a streamer and the AKM DAC it uses is excellent. I would recommend buying a straight forward integrated amp such as the Rega Brio, indeed I am going to try its bigger brother the Elex Mk 4 today as this will be the basis of a set up I have currently.

I use Spendor speaker and would say they always sound great with most front end equipment and indeed run SP2s with a Wiim Pro plus so I expect other Spendor models you maybe looking at will work well.

I have heard the Wharfedale Lintons and they are great. Big bold, rich sound with fairly detailed top end. I really like them and would even consider a pair myself. Should work well in your room size.

[User211]

The clipping lights were on for quite a few tens of minutes, almost permanently, Barry. Witnessed by others, too.

I'll send you a PM we're off topic really.

[Maelstrom]

The clipping lights were on for quite a few tens of minutes, almost permanently, Barry. Witnessed by others, too.

I'll send you a PM we're off topic really.


Morning all

Off topic is not a problem!

Any and all discussion arising from my posts is welcomed, and enjoyed. It's all part of the experience.

Alistair

[Macca]

The clipping lights were on for quite a few tens of minutes, almost permanently, Barry. Witnessed by others, too.

I'll send you a PM we're off topic really.

Barry was there at that meet!

Yes it did happen

I like the ESL but you me and Barry have very long rooms which are ideal for dipole speakers to work well. Plus I don't think they're the best choice for someone just starting over after a long time. Just too 'experimental'.

[Barry]

Yes I was there, but I don't remember the class G amp/Quad 57 combination. The demo might have been during the time when Marco, I (and I think Justin) plus a couple of others, went out for lunch.

I do remember Firebottle's Quad 57s being driven by my pair of Quad 510 monoblock amplifiers driven by a Mark Levinson ML26 preamp that I had brought along.

It has just occurred to me that Alan's Quads had been modified by him - they had an led fitted which showed if the speaker was being overdriven, and it flashed almost constantly, yet the speakers continued to perform well. So, curiouser and curiouser. :hmm:

[User211]

Barry was there at that meet!

Yes it did happen

I like the ESL but you me and Barry have very long rooms which are ideal for dipole speakers to work well. Plus I don't think they're the best choice for someone just starting over after a long time. Just too 'experimental'.Nah I disagree.

The first speakers I ever bought were a pair of Wharfedale Lintons. I definitely cannot recommend those, but I have never heard the reworked versions.

A retired man deserves better.

In a 16 by 13 I'd stick the 57's on the short wall.

I lived with Duettas in a 17 by 11-12 for years. That was crazy and intense. I can still almost re-create that just by sitting closer in a 35 by 14.

The Quads won't do the Apogee thing and will be way more relaxed in that sort of space.

Rabski from the Wam had a good pair of 57s that I thought were great at a Wam show, augmented by a ribbon super tweeter of some kind. The thing that fucked me up about that pair was walking from side to side. The change in frequency response was absurd.

I wonder whether that's what Barry meant by vertical dispersion being odd. Or whether that ribbon tweeter was doing odd things when combined with the ESL panels. I will probably never know.

The drink any power capability of Alan's Quad 57s though? I am stopping myself from posting AI assertions, but it did have some interesting ideas I was going to post to Barry.

Barry I just can't remember you. Sorry. I remember Martin like it was yesterday. And Alan. And Marco. And Ali.

[Firebottle]

The clipping lights were on for quite a few tens of minutes, almost permanently, Barry. Witnessed by others, too.

I'll send you a PM we're off topic really.

I had fitted the protection boards so I think that helped!

[Macca]

Nah I disagree.

The first speakers I ever bought were a pair of Wharfedale Lintons. I definitely cannot recommend those, but I have never heard the reworked versions.

A retired man deserves better.


The only thing that's the same is the name. As if I would recommend a bad speaker!

[Maelstrom]

Hi everyone,

I've been doing some local research, which can be a bit of a nightmare; everyone has an opinion, and is keen to voice it!

I’m planning to arrange a visit to Cloney Audio (specifically to explore the brands they carry: https://www.cloneyaudio.com/brands

I’m interested in auditioning some speakers and possibly amplification, but it’ll be my first time in a long time visiting a high-end dealer for a serious demo.

If you’ve been to Cloney or have experience with their demos, I’d really appreciate your insight:

How far in advance should I book an appointment?
What’s the demo process like—do they encourage you to bring your own music, and is there much flexibility to compare different components?
Any particular brands or setups they excel with that I should prioritise?
General impressions of their service, expertise, and overall approach.

I’ve seen they emphasise system matching and have decades of experience, which is exactly what I’m after.

If anyone has visited recently or has worked with them on a system, I’d love to hear your thoughts before I reach out to them.

Alistair

[Jimbo]

The only thing that's the same is the name. As if I would recommend a bad speaker!

Heard the Super Lintons the other day and they are superb. In fact I would consider a pair myself!

[CageyH]

I have no experience, but from a quick browse in the "shop" section £3 to £5k is going to be a challenge in that dealer for a system. They don't seem to have much mid range gear.
As you said, they look a bit more high end, so personally I would give them a call, or drop in, and discuss your requirements with them, and see what they suggest.

As for taking your own music, you may not need to if they can stream, but make sure you have a robust play list.

[Pigmy Pony]

It's a pity you don't have Richer Sounds in Dublin, but there is a branch in Belfast, a two hour drive away. They have a wide range of products to cater for your budget and beyond, and their staff are enthusiastic and very helpful. Just give them a bit of notice, and they will have everything ready for you to audition.

[Roy S]

As you’ve name checked me thought I’d better contribute.

Just to big up Fanthorpes in the dealer stakes. They provided excellent service when I purchased my Luxman amplifier from them in all respects - very fair with their trade in amounts, arranging a home demo and the actual purchase experience.

As far as recommending components is concerned I’m very happy with my system in a similar sized space as yours, happy to list them if you’re interested but might bust your budget.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20260404/bf09d4a1b5c26e1a8c285bc00d955d06.jpg

Good luck!

[Maelstrom]

Evening all,

Yesterday, I had a few hours free, so I thought I'd pop in to Cloney, have a listen to some of the speakers on my shortlist (Spendor, ProAc, maybe Wharfedale), and generally get a feel for what's out there.

I was really looking forward to it. A proper hi-fi shop. A chance to talk to someone who knows their stuff.

It didn't go well.

I hadn't phoned ahead, just took the opportunity whilst I was in town

When I walked in, it didn't look too busy, there was an older gentleman behind the counter – I assume a senior salesman or possibly the owner. I said hello, explained I was putting together a new system with a budget of around £3-4k, and asked if I could listen to a few speakers.

His demeanour changed almost immediately. He didn't say it outright, but his tone shifted to something colder. He asked a couple of perfunctory questions, then said something like, "Well, we're quite busy today. Let me get someone to help you."

That someone turned out to be a younger lad – Saturday boy energy, polite enough but clearly not experienced. He didn't seem to know the products well. When I asked about the difference between the Spendor A1 and A2 – whether the floorstander would be too much for my 5x4m room – he gave me a vague, mumbled answer that didn't address the question. When I asked about amplification matching (I'd read Spendors can be a little fussy), he just said "they work with most amps."

I tried to steer the conversation – told him about my room, my taste (warm, engaging, not fatiguing), my interest in second-hand options. He nodded along but didn't really engage. No follow-up questions. No suggestions. No "let me set up a demo for you."

After about ten minutes of me pulling teeth, I thanked him and left. Didn't get to hear a single speaker.

Now, I understand that hi-fi shops are businesses. I understand that margins are tight and that a £3-4k sale isn't going to make anyone's year. But I wasn't asking for a private audition with the owner – just basic courtesy and a bit of product knowledge.

What really stings is that I was prepared to spend money. Not Linn/Naim money, but real money. And I walked away feeling like I wasn't worth their time.

So, am I being too sensitive? Should I just accept that some shops prioritise high rollers and buy online instead?

I don't want to name and shame unfairly. I'm genuinely asking whether I should give them another chance or take my business elsewhere.

Thanks for listening.

Alistair

[Macca]

Not unusual IME. Not all 'proper' dealers are like that but a lot will only perk up if you're spending well into five figures.

Go up to Richer Sounds in Belfast. Richer staff usually very helpful. Been using them off and on for 40 years without one bad experience.

[Barry]

Hello Alistair,

Sorry to learn of your disappointing visit to an audio dealer near you. Whilst I respect your wish not 'to name names', a simple search suggests a likely name. Clicking on their name shows that they have very good customer reviews, but have also received a few very bad reviews. No-one expects any seller to have a 100% satisfaction record; there are always some who like to complain, but the treatment you were given is unjustified and will do little for their reputation.

Often high street outlets are reluctant to spend a lot of time in providing in-store demonstrations is that a likely customer will thank them for the demo, will go away and 'think about it', and then buy the components on-line for a lower outlay.

So what I suggest is for you to describe your intended listening room in detail, providing photographs if possible, showing the disposition of all doors and windows, and where you intend to place furnishings. We have Members here who might be able to advise, and perhaps sell you and deliver a suitable system.

Don't give up.

[Pigmy Pony]

If you want to try a dealer, I would suggest again Richer Sounds in Belfast. I see from your last post that you just dropped in to Cloney unannounced. Now I'm not going to excuse the way you were treated there, but I will say that dealers like appointments, to better prepare them to set up some products and make time for you. And Richer Sounds will be no exception, so be sure to give them a call first.

I've bought a lot of stuff from them over the years, and apart from last year's £2k telly I've never spent more than a couple of hundred, and I was never made to feel that spending big would get me better service.

But really, to get the most bang for your buck, listen to advice offered on AoS - I wish I'd done that before buying my stuff ten years ago, my set up would look (and sound) better than it does. Of that I am certain. So Barry's suggestion is also valid :)

[Macca]

Give Richer a call in advance and get them to set up the Wharfedale Super Linton, the KEF Q7 Meta and maybe the JBL Stage8 with the Yamaha AS701 amp and see how you go from there.

[hifi_dave]

Hello Alistair,

Sorry to learn of your disappointing visit to an audio dealer near you. Whilst I respect your wish not 'to name names', a simple search suggests a likely name. Clicking on their name shows that they have very good customer reviews, but have also received a few very bad reviews. No-one expects any seller to have a 100% satisfaction record; there are always some who like to complain, but the treatment you were given is unjustified and will do little for their reputation.

Often high street outlets are reluctant to spend a lot of time in providing in-store demonstrations is that a likely customer will thank them for the demo, will go away and 'think about it', and then buy the components on-line for a lower outlay.

So what I suggest is for you to describe your intended listening room in detail, providing photographs if possible, showing the disposition of all doors and windows, and where you intend to place furnishings. We have Members here who might be able to advise, and perhaps sell you and deliver a suitable system.

Don't give up.
As a dealer it's difficult to pick the genuine from the tyre kickers when booking a demo. Demonstrations can go on for hours and occasionally days and end with "I have to think about it, have to sell the old one first, boiler/car need work, gone to get my c/card from the car, waiting for my inheritance to come through" and even had a customer ordering a very expensive system only to phone the next day to cancel because "his Wife had been diagnosed with MS and he had to buy a wheelchair and other aids". Found out he was lying when another dealer phoned to tell me the customer was phoning around for a bigger discount. How could he live with himself using his Wife's (false) illness as the excuse.

You need to take account that numerous dealers work on commission either for the staff or for the shop. In this way you are unlikely to get honest advice or an unbiased demonstration. They will sell the most lucrative products.

I work on my own and genuinely do my best to help a potential customer to get the best system for his/her money but it's not always appreciated. I've always done the utmost to assemble good value systems from decent companies because not all systems are equal and there is an awful lot of dross out there. People often ask "what system do you have ?" My answer is anything I take off the shelf and plug in because I believe in it all. I don't spend my hard earned on rubbish.

Magazines are another source of misinformation because they rely on advertising to survive. At one time the circulations were sufficient to pay the wages and the mags could easily pay for themselves but now with circulation figures so low, they need the advertising. The last thing they can do is to give any product an iffy review because that could kill the advertising revenue.

It's a dangerous world out there.

[Macca]

As a dealer it's difficult to pick the genuine from the tyre kickers when booking a demo..

I used to sell vehicles so I've literally had tyre kickers :)

One bloke I spent an hour showing him lots of different vehicles. He said he owned a limo company and a nightclub (turned out to be total bollocks). Never bought a thing, he just liked talking to salesmen. I just accepted that it comes with the territory. Sometimes you can get a sale out of those people even so, it's just really hard.

[Maelstrom]

Give Richer a call in advance and get them to set up the Wharfedale Super Linton, the KEF Q7 Meta and maybe the JBL Stage8 with the Yamaha AS701 amp and see how you go from there.

Hi Martin

Thanks for the suggestion, I think this is the route I'll take; it's roughly a 3-4 hour round trip, plus however long I spend in RS - sounds like a day well spent!

Alistair

[hifi_dave]

It's the lies I can't stand. If someone is friendly and polite, just wants a quick demo without committing to buy, I really don't mind. It's all the excuses why they can't buy which wind me up. When you've been dealing with the public for as long as I have, you really do have a feeling for what is true and what is not. Even an e-mail conversation can give it away.

I like to think I am honest and genuinely try to help people so it comes as a nasty surprise when I get let down by someone who is selfishly wasting my time for their own purposes. It's not easy.

[Macca]

It's the lies I can't stand. If someone is friendly and polite, just wants a quick demo without committing to buy, I really don't mind. It's all the excuses why they can't buy which wind me up. When you've been dealing with the public for as long as I have, you really do have a feeling for what is true and what is not. Even an e-mail conversation can give it away.

I like to think I am honest and genuinely try to help people so it comes as a nasty surprise when I get let down by someone who is selfishly wasting my time for their own purposes. It's not easy.

I know. Some people are dicks what can you do?

The way I looked at it I was getting paid for my time plus four figure commission and they'd wasted an hour of their own time and gone home empty-handed, so who's getting the best of that? :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Hi Alistair, welcome to AOS, nice to see some new blood. All the guys on here are spot on and have plenty of knowledge. I will at some point read this thread over a cup of tea! Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with your local audio dealer. Are you any good with a soldering iron amd would you consider ChiFi?

[Maelstrom]

Hi Alistair, welcome to AOS, nice to see some new blood. All the guys on here are spot on and have plenty of knowledge. I will at some point read this thread over a cup of tea! Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with your local audio dealer. Are you any good with a soldering iron amd would you consider ChiFi?

Hi Andrew

That's an interesting question – and not one I was expecting!

Soldering iron: I can use one, but I'm very much at the "join two wires without burning myself" level. I built a few electronics kits as a teenager (anyone remember the old Maplin disco strobe?), and I've replaced capacitors in a couple of guitar amps decades ago. But I'm rusty. Very rusty. And my eyes aren't what they used to be.

So I wouldn't say I'm good with one. Competent in a pinch? Maybe. Confident building a DAC from a kit? No.

ChiFi: I've seen the term thrown around – SMSL, Topping, Loxjie, that sort of thing? I'll admit I've been a bit snobbish about it without really knowing why. Probably because it wasn't around when I was last in the game. But I've read enough forum posts to know that some of it measures exceptionally well and costs a fraction of the Western brands.

And honestly, I'm no stranger to buying direct from China. I built most of my fledgling home automation system with parts from AliExpress and Temu – Zigbee sensors, smart plugs, that sort of thing. A bit of trial and error, some absolute bargains, a few duds. So I'm quite happy buying from those platforms if the seller has decent feedback and the price is right. The wait time doesn't bother me – I'm retired, not in a rush.

Are you suggesting I should be looking at a ChiFi DAC/amp combination and putting my budget into speakers instead? Or are you thinking of a specific kit build?

I'm open-minded, but I'll be honest: I'm retired, I'm a bit lonely in a new house, and part of what I'm looking for is the experience of buying something solid and beautiful – something that feels like an heirloom. A tiny black box with a wall wart doesn't quite scratch that itch. But if the sound is there, I can be persuaded.

What did you have in mind?

Alistair

[Wakefield Turntables]

Alaistair, perhaps the best site I know with regards info on lots of different DACS is here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php virtually every new DAC over the last several years at all price points has been reviewed and tested. Fill yer boots!!!

[Maelstrom]

Morning all,

First, a thank you. The advice on my system-building journey has been genuinely helpful – especially the repeated reminder that I need to think of the whole chain (room, speakers, amp, source) as one system, not a collection of shiny boxes. I'm trying to keep that in mind.

So here's where I am: I've narrowed down some speaker and amp options, I'm getting a handle on streaming sources, and I'm slowly coming to terms with the fact that my new room will need a rug or two.

But one thing keeps nagging at me. Cables.

I know. I know. Mentioning cables on a hi-fi forum is like mentioning politics at a family dinner. Everyone has an opinion, and someone's going to get upset.

But I genuinely don't know the sensible approach for someone at my level. I'm not building a reference system. I'm not trying to hear the difference between power cords made from unicorn hair and virgin copper. I just want to connect my amplifier to my speakers without accidentally choking the life out of the music – or spending money I could have put into better speakers.

So, with the understanding that I'm asking for practical, experienced-based advice rather than starting a flame war:

When in the system-building process should I think about cables? Do I treat them as an afterthought, or should I budget for them from the start?

What's the "diminishing returns" point for someone with a £3-4k system? £20 for a basic OFC speaker cable? £100? £500? Where do I stop being sensible and start being a fool?

Is there a consensus on one or two genuinely good-value brands (UK-available) that won't embarrass my system but won't bankrupt me?

I'm not asking for a debate about whether cables sound different. I'm just asking what works without being stupid. If that's still too hot a topic, I'll accept a collective "go away and come back when you've bought the amp" as an answer.

Thanks for indulging me.

Alistair

[CageyH]

For cables, have a look at the Amazon Basics, Van Damme, Blue Jeans, Designacable or Mark Grant to name a few.
I make my own interconnects (out of OCC cable and decent plugs) and bought some OCC speaker cable from AliExpress

[Barry]

There is a general rule of thumb that one should spend 10 - 20% of the total system cost on cables. This covers both the low level signal cables as well as the loudspeaker cables.

I am reluctant to name any specific brands, save to say that most cables used in the music business , such as those made by Van Damme, Klotz, or Mogami will not disappoint. If you are especially keen to use a British made cable then there is Mark Grant, and Chord, but the latter are expensive and would use up more of your budget than is necessary.

[Macca]

I use these (note- price is for one cable so it's £35 for a pair).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155880758249?var=456269744111

If you want a run longer than about 20 foot I'd advise getting a thicker cable (12 AWG or more) or you might get some small losses from high resistance.

[hifi_dave]

Morning all,

First, a thank you. The advice on my system-building journey has been genuinely helpful – especially the repeated reminder that I need to think of the whole chain (room, speakers, amp, source) as one system, not a collection of shiny boxes. I'm trying to keep that in mind.

So here's where I am: I've narrowed down some speaker and amp options, I'm getting a handle on streaming sources, and I'm slowly coming to terms with the fact that my new room will need a rug or two.

But one thing keeps nagging at me. Cables.

I know. I know. Mentioning cables on a hi-fi forum is like mentioning politics at a family dinner. Everyone has an opinion, and someone's going to get upset.

But I genuinely don't know the sensible approach for someone at my level. I'm not building a reference system. I'm not trying to hear the difference between power cords made from unicorn hair and virgin copper. I just want to connect my amplifier to my speakers without accidentally choking the life out of the music – or spending money I could have put into better speakers.

So, with the understanding that I'm asking for practical, experienced-based advice rather than starting a flame war:

When in the system-building process should I think about cables? Do I treat them as an afterthought, or should I budget for them from the start?

What's the "diminishing returns" point for someone with a £3-4k system? £20 for a basic OFC speaker cable? £100? £500? Where do I stop being sensible and start being a fool?

Is there a consensus on one or two genuinely good-value brands (UK-available) that won't embarrass my system but won't bankrupt me?

I'm not asking for a debate about whether cables sound different. I'm just asking what works without being stupid. If that's still too hot a topic, I'll accept a collective "go away and come back when you've bought the amp" as an answer.

Thanks for indulging me.

Alistair

Which speaker and amp have you narrowed down to ?

The highest markups are on certain cables, often 100s of %. Cable cost, say, £5 but retail cost might easily be £500, so don't go overboard. They do make a difference but costs can be ridiculous.

[Maelstrom]

Hello again.

I wanted to share a bit of positive news, and also thank everyone who's steered me this far.

Following the advice I've received so far, I've gone and done something about it. I've booked a demo at Richer Sounds in Belfast for this coming Sunday morning.

I spoke to a chap called George on the phone – I believe he's a senior sales manager there. What a difference from my last retail experience. He listened properly, asked about my room (5x4m, bare floors, the lot), my taste (warm, engaging, not clinical), and my budget (£3-4k). Didn't rush me. Didn't sigh when I mentioned the figure. Actually seemed interested.

I sent over all my details – room dimensions, listening preferences, the shortlist you've all helped me put together. I asked him to propose two different complete systems within budget, so I can compare approaches. He said he'd have them set up and waiting.

So Sunday morning, I'll be sitting in a demo room, finally hearing some actual music through actual speakers. It feels like the first real step toward falling back in love with this hobby.

And here's the best part: I'm turning it into a little getaway. I'm heading over to Belfast on Saturday afternoon, checking into a hotel, and having a proper night out – a good meal, a few pints, maybe some live music if I can find it. Then Sunday morning, fresh ears and a clear head, off to Richer Sounds.

I'm trying not to put too much pressure on myself. I know I won't buy on the spot. But I'm hoping to come away with a clear sense of what works for me – not just what looks good on paper.

If anyone has tips for Belfast (restaurants, pubs, or things to avoid), I'm all ears. And if anyone's had experience with George at Richer Sounds Belfast, I'd love to hear it – so far, he seems like a rare gem.

Wish me luck. And thanks again for all the hand-holding so far.

Alistair

[Pigmy Pony]

I've no doubt George at RS will look after you, just as he and his colleagues are looked after by his boss. Have a read of this:

http://https://www.eachperson.com/blog/companies-that-give-richer-sounds-employee-ownership

Good idea, making your visit part of a weekend away, just don't be too hungover on the Sunday morning :)

[Alex_UK]

Good luck for the demo, Alistair.

The link isn't working for me, Steve, but Richer Sounds and specifically Julian Richer (now "retired" I believe) is one of my business idols (his book "The Richer Way" originally released in 1996 is still the best "business" book I have ever read. The fact that they are virtually the "last man standing" in the world of national hi-fi chains is testament to his ethos, and I am sure there are many "Georges" around the branches. I have bought stuff from them over the years, including the Triangle powered speakers I use most of the time earlier this year and they have always been super helpful.

[Pigmy Pony]

Good luck for the demo, Alistair.

The link isn't working for me, Steve, but Richer Sounds and specifically Julian Richer (now "retired" I believe) is one of my business idols (his book "The Richer Way" originally released in 1996 is still the best "business" book I have ever read. The fact that they are virtually the "last man standing" in the world of national hi-fi chains is testament to his ethos, and I am sure there are many "Georges" around the branches. I have bought stuff from them over the years, including the Triangle powered speakers I use most of the time earlier this year and they have always been super helpful.

Yes Alex, the link I put in was about Julian Richer and what he had done for his employees, which I'm sure goes a long way to explaining why visiting his stores is such a positive experience. Other retail chains, regardless of whatever products they sell, should consider operating this way :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Morning all,

First, a thank you. The advice on my system-building journey has been genuinely helpful – especially the repeated reminder that I need to think of the whole chain (room, speakers, amp, source) as one system, not a collection of shiny boxes. I'm trying to keep that in mind.

So here's where I am: I've narrowed down some speaker and amp options, I'm getting a handle on streaming sources, and I'm slowly coming to terms with the fact that my new room will need a rug or two.

But one thing keeps nagging at me. Cables.

I know. I know. Mentioning cables on a hi-fi forum is like mentioning politics at a family dinner. Everyone has an opinion, and someone's going to get upset.

But I genuinely don't know the sensible approach for someone at my level. I'm not building a reference system. I'm not trying to hear the difference between power cords made from unicorn hair and virgin copper. I just want to connect my amplifier to my speakers without accidentally choking the life out of the music – or spending money I could have put into better speakers.

So, with the understanding that I'm asking for practical, experienced-based advice rather than starting a flame war:

When in the system-building process should I think about cables? Do I treat them as an afterthought, or should I budget for them from the start?

What's the "diminishing returns" point for someone with a £3-4k system? £20 for a basic OFC speaker cable? £100? £500? Where do I stop being sensible and start being a fool?

Is there a consensus on one or two genuinely good-value brands (UK-available) that won't embarrass my system but won't bankrupt me?

I'm not asking for a debate about whether cables sound different. I'm just asking what works without being stupid. If that's still too hot a topic, I'll accept a collective "go away and come back when you've bought the amp" as an answer.

Thanks for indulging me.

Alistair

Alistair,

Cables

1. They need to be of a sufficient length.
2. Dont believe the hype or bullshit.
3. They need to be able to conduct an electrical current

2mm Solid core electrical cable from Wickes can produce you some very nice power and speaker cables. I use silver, but that's just my quirk.

[Steph Dale]

Cables are, to a greater or lesser extent, a 'belief' thing. The 10% rule seems normal, but I spend quite a bit more than that.

One thing I did notice though, was that earthing, and a consistent earthing strategy is pretty important. So if you're buying cables, I'd strongly suggest buying them all from one manufacturer. My current place was once within line of sight of one of the far-field monitor radar systems for Heathrow airport, until it was decommissioned a few years ago (the radar, not my home!). My cable selection was therefore largely based upon those which had effective screening and earthing in a pretty harsh environment - the effects weren't subtle and several manufacturers I had tried plainly didn't know what they were doing.

Steph

[Barry]

Alistair,

Cables

1. They need to be of a sufficient length.
2. Dont believe the hype or bullshit.
3. They need to be able to conduct an electrical current

2mm Solid core electrical cable from Wickes can produce you some very nice power and speaker cables. I use silver, but that's just my quirk.

I'm reminded of what the late Peter Walker of Quad had to say about speaker cables:

There are only two things that matter: the first is that they are long enough to reach between the amplifier and the speakers; the second ideally is that the colour of the cable insulation should match that of the carpet over which they run.

As you can tell Peter Walker was highly sceptical about all the hype and bullshit theory that surrounds a lot of audio cable marketing. But no matter, I'm sure Richer Sounds will offer some sensible suggestions.

Good luck for Sunday. :)

[Maelstrom]

Morning all,

Well, it's happening. Tomorrow morning, I'll be in the demo room at Richer Sounds Belfast with George. The hotel is booked, I'm heading over this afternoon, and I've got a night out lined up first. Feeling properly excited – and a little nervous, if I'm honest.

George has been brilliant. We had another good chat on the phone yesterday, and together we settled on a shortlist to audition. He's going to have two or three combinations ready for me, mixing and matching within my £3-4k budget.

Here's what we'll be listening to:

Streamers:

Argon Audio Stream 2 MK3

WiiM Pro Plus

Amplifiers:

Audiolab 7000A

Cambridge Audio EXA100

Speakers:

Monitor Audio Silver 100 7G

Wharfedale Super Linton

KEF LS50 Meta

The plan is to try a few different pairings – probably start with the WiiM into the Audiolab with the KEFs, then swap in the Cambridge, then try the Wharfedales, etc. George said we can take as long as I need, which is a relief.

I'm particularly curious to hear the Super Lintons. They're big, I know, but everything I've read says they have that warm, engaging, slightly forgiving character I've been after. The Monitor Audios seem to get rave reviews for punch and dynamics. And the KEFs are the modern classic I feel I should try, even if I worry they might be too clinical for me.

The Argon streamer is a bit of an unknown – it seems to be well regarded in European forums but less talked about here. George rates it highly for the money, so I trust him.

Although cables didn't come up in our conversation so far, I'm looking forward to seeing what they use and recommend...

Anyway, I'll report back tomorrow evening with impressions – which combination made me smile, which one fell flat, and whether I walked out with a receipt or just a lot of thinking to do.

Thanks again to everyone who's offered advice along the way. It's genuinely helped me get to this point with some confidence.

Wish me luck – and if you see a retirement age man wandering around Belfast tonight looking slightly lost, that'll be me.

Alistair

[Macca]

All the best with it, have a good time!

[Pigmy Pony]

Best of luck Alistair, I'm sure you won't need it :)

[Barry]

Wishing you an entertaining, informative and successful weekend Alistair. We're all on tenterhooks here to learn how you get on. An exciting time. :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

I honestly hope that you have a great time, learn some new stuff and hopefully have a new system.

[CageyH]

Enjoy the experience. George seems to have plenty of experience (based on the RS website) so I think you will be in good hands.
I had my doubts about the first dealer you contacted, as they seem to deal mainly in high end gear, but I think RS will certainly be a completely different experience.

Enjoy it. Don't be afraid to ask questions and try different gear to the stuff that has already been prepared.

[hifi_dave]

Lots of great gear missing from that list.

[Maelstrom]

Evening all,

I'm back from Belfast, ears still ringing (in a good way), and I wanted to share how the demo went – partly because I know some of you were following along, and partly because it might help someone else in a similar position.

First, the night out was excellent. A few pints in the Cathedral Quarter, a very good steak, and a solid night's sleep. Walked into Richer Sounds on Sunday morning feeling relaxed and ready.

George was every bit as good as he sounded on the phone. He had the systems set up in the demo room, exactly as promised. No pressure, no jargon, no "you really need to spend more." Just a genuine enthusiast who let me listen, swap things around, and listen again.

We ran through a few combinations from the shortlist I posted earlier. I tried the KEF LS50 Metas with the Cambridge amp – too clinical for my taste, especially in that bare-ish room. The Monitor Audio Silver 100s were punchy and fun, but a bit too forward on rock vocals. The Audiolab 7000A was perfectly fine, but the Cambridge just had more soul.

And then we got to the combination that a couple of you had recommended in my earlier threads: the Wharfedale Super Lintons. George paired them with the Cambridge Audio EXA100 and fed the signal from a WiiM Pro Plus. From the first track, I understood what the fuss was about. Nina Simone's voice had weight and presence. John Bonham's kick drum had physicality without overwhelming the room. Joni Mitchell's guitar harmonics just hung in the air beautifully.

George smiled and said he thought this combination would match my room superbly – the Lintons' warmth and the Cambridge's control working together in a 5x4m space. It certainly sounded that way in the demo room.

So where am I now? I didn't buy on the spot. George was perfectly understanding – no hard sell whatsoever. I've come away with some excellent listening notes and a clear front‑runner, but I want to do a bit more research and maybe hear one or two other combinations before I commit. The Wharfedale/Cambridge pairing is definitely the one to beat, but I'd like to sleep on it and perhaps compare against a NAD C389 or a Naim setup if I can find one locally.

One quick practical note: I asked George about speaker cables – knowing full well what a can of worms that is. He said for a system at this level, decent OFC speaker cable (around £3-5 per metre) is all you need. He recommended Fisual Super Pearl or Cambridge Audio's own SYMPHONY 200 – nothing fancy, just well-made and sensible.

A huge thank you to everyone who offered advice along the way – especially those who pushed the Wharfedales. You gave me a fantastic reference point. And if anyone's considering a demo at Richer Sounds Belfast, ask for George. He's a rare find.

Now I just need to buy a rug. And make a decision.

Alistair

[Barry]

You have made a good start there Alistair. Would you be able to listen to a NAD or Naim set-up at Richers? Like your choice of demo music.

[Pigmy Pony]

Glad the day went well for you :) Not surprised to hear that the Lintons did it for you, and I reckon your 4x5M space would be more than big enough for them.

No idea what you'll make of Naim amps, though I did hear their Statement amp powering some Focal Scalas last year, and that was quite nice. And at close to £200,000 a total bargain :)

Assuming you're happy with the Lintons/WiiM, I would recommend having a chat with Hifi Dave regarding amplifier choices. I'd expect him to have some models as capable as, if not more capable than any amps you heard this morning.

[CageyH]

It sounds like you had a good day. I thought Richer Sounds also stocked NAD?
Personally, I am not a fan of Naim, but I wish you the best of luck on your amplifier search.
It does sound like you have a good contender on the list though.

[Maelstrom]

Lots of great gear missing from that list.

Of that I have no doubt.

With sufficient time, patience and knowledge I'm sure I could work my way through such a list; however, of those atributes I only have time!

What would you add to the list?

[Maelstrom]

It sounds like you had a good day. I thought Richer Sounds also stocked NAD?
Personally, I am not a fan of Naim, but I wish you the best of luck on your amplifier search.
It does sound like you have a good contender on the list though.

Morning Kevin.

Unfortunately, RS Belfast do not supply NAD equipment. I guess the almost semi-autonomous nature of their branch management allows them to choose their ranges to suit the locale?

With the knowledge gained from yesterday, and a little confidence, I'm tempted to go back to Cloney, who are a NAD stockist, and audition some of their equipment, for research purposes, at least.

Alistair

[Maelstrom]

Morning all,

Just a short one. I've been sitting here since yesterday's demo, and I'm finding myself oddly frustrated.

Not with RS – they were brilliant. Not with the kit – the Wharfedale/Cambridge pairing sounded genuinely lovely. And not with any of you, who've been nothing but helpful.

It's me. I'm impatient.

I went into that demo hoping for a moment of absolute certainty. The clouds parting. A voice from above saying "this is your system, Alistair." Instead, I came away with... more information. More comparisons to make. More research to do.

I know that's the sensible way to do this. I know a £4k decision shouldn't be rushed. I know I said I wouldn't buy on the spot. But now I'm back in my quiet house with no music and a room still full of boxes from the move, and I just want it done.

The Wharfedales are still the front-runner. But I keep wondering: what if I'd heard them with a Naim amp? What if I'd tried floorstanders instead? What if, what if, what if.

Anyway. No real question here. Just needed to vent. I'm sure I'll settle down in a day or two and make a sensible decision.

Thanks for listening.

Alistair

[User211]

Sounds normal to me.

It's a hobby. Obsessing on it is natural and very hard to get away from. But that's all part of the fun.

You will buy something, and you will change it at some stage.

It's the law;)

[Macca]

Don't get too hung up on the amplifier thing. High fidelity solid state amps don't have a 'sound signature' regardless of what you might read.

The Naim won't be any different to the Cambridge amp, it just costs more. You can't listen to an amp without hooking it up to some speakers, and the speakers and the room acoustic will dominate what you hear. It's a pointless exercise.

Lots of other speakers you can audition within your budget, doing that makes more sense as even if you still decide to go for the Lintons you'll not be left thinking 'maybe I could have got something better for the money.'

One tip I will give you - concentrate on listening for what the system does badly, not what it does well. Listen for problems. Over the long term it's the flaws that will irritate you.

[CageyH]

The issue with going to Cloney is that they don't stock Wharfdale?

[Maelstrom]

The issue with going to Cloney is that they don't stock Wharfdale?

Indeed they don't, but they do have some alternatives, and as Macca has suggested above, it makes sense to have explore options.

[Maelstrom]

I think I'm trapped in a loop...,

Just when I thought I was getting closer to a decision, I've gone and thrown a spanner in my own works.

I spent this morning reading reviews of the NAD C 399 – partly because someone mentioned it in another forum, partly because I have too much time on my hands and apparently enjoy torturing myself.

And now I can't stop wondering.

The reviews are glowing. The built-in BluOS streaming (no separate streamer needed). The Dirac Live room correction (which sounds perfect for my bare-floored, awkward new-build room). The power. The flexibility. Everyone talks about it being warm, musical, engaging – exactly what I said I wanted.

So now I'm sitting here thinking: what if I paired the NAD C 399 with the Wharfedale Super Lintons instead of the Cambridge EXA100?

Would the Dirac sort out my room issues better than a rug and some trial and error? Would the NAD's warmth play nicely with the Lintons' warmth, or would it be too much of a good thing? Would I even need a separate streamer, or does the BluOS make the WiiM redundant?

I don't know. And that's the problem.

The Cambridge sounded genuinely great in the demo. I had no complaints. But now I'm second-guessing everything. What if the NAD is better? What if I buy the Cambridge and spend the next five years wondering?

I know the sensible answer is: go listen to the NAD. But that means another demo, another trip, more time. And I'm impatient, as I mentioned yesterday.

So here I am, back where I started, but now with an extra amplifier on my mental shortlist and a fresh layer of confusion.

Has anyone here heard the NAD C 399 with Wharfedale Lintons (or similar)? Does Dirac Live actually deliver on its promise in a real room, or is it another box-ticking feature?

Any wisdom – or sympathy – gratefully received.

Alistair

[User211]

I played with DIRAC quite a while ago now.

I just think the concept is flawed.

When I play my acoustic guitar, do I need to room correct it?

No is the answer. It sounds like it does in the room I play it in.

Same applies to plonking a band in any room.

It also sounds odd to my ears.

[CageyH]

Have you contacted HiFi Hut in Dublin?

[Macca]

Dirac is a useful feature to have for fixing low frequency issues like bass boom but you'll still need to tweak it manually (letting it just auto-correct rarely works out because we don't hear the way a microphone does) and you'll still need a rug and other soft furnishings :).

[Maelstrom]

Have you contacted HiFi Hut in Dublin?

Thanks for the suggestion. I haven't contacted HiFi Hut yet – but I've been doing a further bit of homework on the Dublin scene.

Here's my rough take on the main players in the Dublin area, based on what I've heard (and experienced firsthand):

HiFi Hut – I've heard good things, though I haven't visited myself. They stock Rega, Naim, Spendor, and a few others. People say they're knowledgeable and patient with mid-budget customers. I'd put them at the top of my list to try next.

Cloney Audio – I posted about my disappointing experience there a while back. Senior salesman seemed to lose interest when he heard my budget, and I got fobbed off to a Saturday lad who couldn't answer basic questions. Maybe I caught them on a bad day, but first impressions matter. Currently near the bottom of my list.

The Listening Suite – I think they're mostly high-end (Primare, Moon, Audiovector, etc.) – probably out of my budget and comfort zone. I've not contacted them.

So if I had to rank Dublin dealers based on what I know now, I'd say:

HiFi Hut (unproven but good reputation)

Cloney Audio (would only go back if absolutely necessary)

The Listening Suite (probably not for me)

I should probably give HiFi Hut a call. Have you dealt with them yourself? Any particular salesperson I should ask for?

Thanks again for the nudge.

Alistair

[Pigmy Pony]

I can understand your impatience Alistair, I would be the same too. I am also retired, and I came to the realisation that each passing year forms an ever-increasing percentage of the time I have left :eek: so I'd just be getting on with it.

Personally I wouldn't be tempted by an amplifier with a built-in streamer, for the same reason I would never have bothered with a music centre or stack system, ie when something fails you're screwed. Having said that, you could still add on off board streamer if you wanted to.

I think the Dirac room correction will only do anything from about 500hz down, so it's likely your room would still need some treatment. But these are things you can play with once you get your new kit home :)

[CageyH]

Thanks for the suggestion. I haven't contacted HiFi Hut yet – but I've been doing a further bit of homework on the Dublin scene.

Here's my rough take on the main players in the Dublin area, based on what I've heard (and experienced firsthand):

HiFi Hut – I've heard good things, though I haven't visited myself. They stock Rega, Naim, Spendor, and a few others. People say they're knowledgeable and patient with mid-budget customers. I'd put them at the top of my list to try next.

Cloney Audio – I posted about my disappointing experience there a while back. Senior salesman seemed to lose interest when he heard my budget, and I got fobbed off to a Saturday lad who couldn't answer basic questions. Maybe I caught them on a bad day, but first impressions matter. Currently near the bottom of my list.

The Listening Suite – I think they're mostly high-end (Primare, Moon, Audiovector, etc.) – probably out of my budget and comfort zone. I've not contacted them.

So if I had to rank Dublin dealers based on what I know now, I'd say:

HiFi Hut (unproven but good reputation)

Cloney Audio (would only go back if absolutely necessary)

The Listening Suite (probably not for me)

I should probably give HiFi Hut a call. Have you dealt with them yourself? Any particular salesperson I should ask for?

Thanks again for the nudge.

Alistair

I have not used HiFi Hut. I found them through a Google whilst in a meeting today.
They seem well rated.

To be honest, my last interaction with a dealer was during COVID, so things were different back then.
I also live in the South of France, so they are a bit far away.

My recent gear has either been bought second hand, or I have made it myself.
My most recent purchase - a Primare Pre32 - was researched before buying using AI to help.
I am not disappointed, as it is a quality bit of kit.

[Berni217]

Thanks for the suggestion. I haven't contacted HiFi Hut yet – but I've been doing a further bit of homework on the Dublin scene.

Here's my rough take on the main players in the Dublin area, based on what I've heard (and experienced firsthand):

HiFi Hut – I've heard good things, though I haven't visited myself. They stock Rega, Naim, Spendor, and a few others. People say they're knowledgeable and patient with mid-budget customers. I'd put them at the top of my list to try next.

Cloney Audio – I posted about my disappointing experience there a while back. Senior salesman seemed to lose interest when he heard my budget, and I got fobbed off to a Saturday lad who couldn't answer basic questions. Maybe I caught them on a bad day, but first impressions matter. Currently near the bottom of my list.

The Listening Suite – I think they're mostly high-end (Primare, Moon, Audiovector, etc.) – probably out of my budget and comfort zone. I've not contacted them.

So if I had to rank Dublin dealers based on what I know now, I'd say:

HiFi Hut (unproven but good reputation)

Cloney Audio (would only go back if absolutely necessary)

The Listening Suite (probably not for me)

I should probably give HiFi Hut a call. Have you dealt with them yourself? Any particular salesperson I should ask for?

Thanks again for the nudge.

Alistair

Hey Alistair,
Welcome and thanks for sharing your journey with us.
Building a new hi-fi system takes time but is very rewarding when we get it right. No doubt that you will get there.

Only my first system was bought brand new (Arcam CD/Amp and Quad speakers), however I regretted not buying second hand or ex-demo as I would have had so much more quality gears for my money. I have done this since and have not regretted it! Unfortunately, most hifi equipments are like cars: they depreciate from the moment you left the shop.

As you have time, my suggestion would be to go and audition a system at twice your budget from the Listening Suite and compare with your reference/budget system. You could then source the items second hand or ex-demo. This may take a little longer but the reward will be worth it.

Just a thought …


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wakefield Turntables]

[QUOTE=Berni217;1403464]Hey Alistair,

As you have time, my suggestion would be to go and audition a system at twice your budget from the Listening Suite and compare with your reference/budget system. You could then source the items second hand or ex-demo. This may take a little longer but the reward will be worth it.

/QUOTE]

This is a good idea for two reasons. firstly, yes you can get stuff a lot cheaper, secondly but more importantly you'll start to learn the lesson of deminishing returns and soon realise that cheaper can sometimes (and more than often than not) outperforms expensive twoddle. Remember hype is not your friend.

[Barry]

I would like to confirm my distrust of adaptive electronic room equalisation facilities such as DIRAK. I went through a similar trial using a Klark Technic 32-way 1/3 octave equaliser in a vain attempt to improve the low frequency response of my speakers. They are Quad 57s, which have a limited response below 40Hz; the bass is there but with limited 'weight'.

I found that I was fiddling with the sliders covering the bottom end each time I played a record or CD - each time it was different, and each time I wasn't satisfied with the sound. Worse of all I wasn't really enjoying listening to the record, so in the end I removed the equaliser from my system and got on with enjoying the records as before and accepting the low end limitation of my speakers.

Sometimes the less is more.

I also agree with Martin that you should listen to some more speakers, and make note of those parts of their sound reproduction that you don’t like. Obviously the aim is to choose a speaker where the "likes" outweigh the "dislikes".

[Maelstrom]

Hey Alistair,
Welcome and thanks for sharing your journey with us.
Building a new hi-fi system takes time but is very rewarding when we get it right. No doubt that you will get there.

Only my first system was bought brand new (Arcam CD/Amp and Quad speakers), however I regretted not buying second hand or ex-demo as I would have had so much more quality gears for my money. I have done this since and have not regretted it! Unfortunately, most hifi equipments are like cars: they depreciate from the moment you left the shop.

As you have time, my suggestion would be to go and audition a system at twice your budget from the Listening Suite and compare with your reference/budget system. You could then source the items second hand or ex-demo. This may take a little longer but the reward will be worth it.

Just a thought …


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's a really interesting thought – and honestly, not something I'd considered.

I suppose I've been thinking in very linear terms: set a budget, find the best new system within it, buy it, be done. The idea of auditioning at twice my budget and then hunting for second-hand bargains... it feels a bit like cheating, if I'm honest.

And that's where my unease comes in. I'd feel a little dishonest walking into The Listening Suite, letting them spend time with me, maybe even bringing in my own music, all while knowing I have no intention of buying new from them. They're running a business. They have bills to pay. I'm not sure I could look a salesman in the eye and ask for a proper demo if I was already planning to buy elsewhere.

Maybe that's naive. Maybe everyone does it. But it doesn't sit quite right with me.

The second-hand question is another layer. You're absolutely right about depreciation – and I've seen some beautiful ex-demo and used gear on forum classifieds at tempting prices. But I'm also a bit nervous. I've been out of the game so long that I wouldn't know what to look for – worn pots, dry capacitors, mismatched drivers, signs of abuse. And if something went wrong a month later, I'd have no comeback.

I know that's what the forum's "private sales" section is for – trusted members, honest descriptions. But as a newcomer, I don't have that trust built yet.

So I'm torn. Part of me loves the idea of getting, say, a £6-7k system for £3-4k. Part of me just wants a new box, a warranty, and a dealer I can call if something goes wrong.

I suppose I could split the difference – look at ex-demo from a reputable dealer. Still a discount, still some comeback.

Either way, thank you for the suggestion. It's made me think differently, even if I'm not sure I'm brave enough to try it.

Alistair

[Macca]

So I'm torn. Part of me loves the idea of getting, say, a £6-7k system for £3-4k. Part of me just wants a new box, a warranty, and a dealer I can call if something goes wrong.


There is a school of thought in audio that the price tag is a spec - that the more expensive product must be better. This is rarely if ever true for electronic components and there are plenty of very expensive speakers that have very poor performance.

Your budget is easy enough to get outstanding sound quality as I think you already discovered on Sunday.

[Barry]

There is a school of thought in audio that the price tag is a spec - that the more expensive product must be better. This is rarely if ever true for electronic components and there are plenty of very expensive speakers that have very poor performance.

Your budget is easy enough to get outstanding sound quality as I think you already discovered on Sunday.

To an extent you are right. Specification depends on circuit design, but sound quality also depends on the quality of the components used. This can be especially true with the choice of capacitors and semiconductors, less so with resistors and pots. Another aspect to bear in mind is the longevity of the electronics and how reliable it will be.

I cannot see how my comments above can apply to speakers, so agree with you there.

[CageyH]

I would also not feel comfortable going to a HiFi dealer to listen to a system with no intention of buying from them.

You have already heard good system at Richer Sounds, based on your shortlist.
If it was me, I would phone HiFi Hut, give them your room details, budget, preferences etc. and see what they come up with as a system.
They seem to stock Wharfdale, but they may have a speaker that you prefer, or a better amp than the Cambridge Audio.
Ask them if they can do a comparison with the Wharfdales and other speakers.

I would also be open with them about your visit to RS, as they may offer you a better deal if they can secure a sale.

[CageyH]

Having said that, RS are roughly €500 cheaper for the speakers. :eek:

[Pigmy Pony]

Having said that, RS are roughly €500 cheaper for the speakers. :eek:

Not only that, RS have their "price promise", where if you find something you bought from them cheaper elsewhere within 14 days, they'll refund the difference to you.

We found this out last year when the telly we bought off them became £200 cheaper than in their "Black Friday" sale. A quick call to them, and within minutes the 200 quid was in my bank :) Now that's what I call service.

[Berni217]

That's a really interesting thought – and honestly, not something I'd considered.

I suppose I've been thinking in very linear terms: set a budget, find the best new system within it, buy it, be done. The idea of auditioning at twice my budget and then hunting for second-hand bargains... it feels a bit like cheating, if I'm honest.

And that's where my unease comes in. I'd feel a little dishonest walking into The Listening Suite, letting them spend time with me, maybe even bringing in my own music, all while knowing I have no intention of buying new from them. They're running a business. They have bills to pay. I'm not sure I could look a salesman in the eye and ask for a proper demo if I was already planning to buy elsewhere.

Maybe that's naive. Maybe everyone does it. But it doesn't sit quite right with me.

The second-hand question is another layer. You're absolutely right about depreciation – and I've seen some beautiful ex-demo and used gear on forum classifieds at tempting prices. But I'm also a bit nervous. I've been out of the game so long that I wouldn't know what to look for – worn pots, dry capacitors, mismatched drivers, signs of abuse. And if something went wrong a month later, I'd have no comeback.

I know that's what the forum's "private sales" section is for – trusted members, honest descriptions. But as a newcomer, I don't have that trust built yet.

So I'm torn. Part of me loves the idea of getting, say, a £6-7k system for £3-4k. Part of me just wants a new box, a warranty, and a dealer I can call if something goes wrong.

I suppose I could split the difference – look at ex-demo from a reputable dealer. Still a discount, still some comeback.

Either way, thank you for the suggestion. It's made me think differently, even if I'm not sure I'm brave enough to try it.

Alistair

Hey Alistair,

I understand your feeling of not wasting the vendor's time. Please note that The Listening Suite has a number of ex-display/pre-owned amplifiers & speakers which could still be a good comparison to be made vs the system you auditioned at RS. Have a look on https://www.thelisteningsuite.ie/ex-display-pre-owned/.

Electronics are quite reliable these days so, if you do your homework, you can still source some fantastic kits for a fraction of the RRP price, which is still the best option I would go for IMHO.

[Macca]

Hey Alistair,

I understand your feeling of not wasting the vendor's time. Please note that The Listening Suite has a number of ex-display/pre-owned amplifiers & speakers which could still be a good comparison to be made vs the system you auditioned at RS. Have a look on https://www.thelisteningsuite.ie/ex-display-pre-owned/.

Electronics are quite reliable these days so, if you do your homework, you can still source some fantastic kits for a fraction of the RRP price, which is still the best option I would go for IMHO.

well, they have 2 speakers, one of which is well out of budget but the other one, ATC SCM40, are worth an audition.

[Berni217]

well, they have 2 speakers, one of which is well out of budget but the other one, ATC SCM40, are worth an audition.

They also have the JMR Bliss Jubilé and Magic Stands at 1,640 Eur. These are good French speakers too. https://www.thelisteningsuite.ie/jmr-bliss-jubile-and-magic-stands-special-offer/

HiFi+ review: https://hifiplus.com/articles/jmr-electroacoustique-bliss-jubile/

[Maelstrom]

Morning all,

Apologies for the radio silence. I haven't fallen off the edge of the earth – nor have I bought anything. I've just been taking a bit of time to step back and let my head clear.

All the options, all the advice, all the second‑guessing... I realised I was getting nowhere fast. So I pressed pause.

In the meantime, I've been doing what I probably should have been doing all along: just listening to music. I've spent a couple of very enjoyable evenings in downtown Dublin, at two bars that seem to be built around good sound and good taste.

The Big Romance (https://thebigromance.ie) – A lovely little spot on Parnell Street. Dark, intimate, very deliberately curated playlists. They play everything from jazz to classic soul to leftfield electronic, always at a sensible volume – you can actually talk, but the music still gets under your skin. Their cocktail list is excellent too. Felt like listening to a favourite uncle's record collection, if that uncle had impeccable taste.

Fidelity (https://fidelitybar.ie) – Down on Abbey Street, a bit more of a hi-fi bar vibe. They've got a proper soundsystem (I didn't quiz them on the components, but it sounded right), and they spin a lot of hip-hop, funk, and house. Busier, louder, but still warm and engaging. I sat at the back and just soaked it in. Reminded me that music doesn't need to be analysed – just felt.

Neither place cares about your amplifier's damping factor. Neither place judges your budget. Both places just love music. It's been a nice reminder that the whole point of this is the music, not the gear.

I'm slowly coming back to the decision‑making table with a clearer head. Not there yet, but getting closer.

Thanks for sticking with me.

Alistair

[CageyH]

A wise decision, in my opinion.
You need to live with the system, so there is no point rushing it.

For me it is all about the music, with a compromise that the system has to fit in my man cave, and a wife who is not really interested in music.
You have a benchmark from your first dealer visit, so you just need to see if anything comes close to what you heard, or is capable of dragging you deeper into the music.

[Barry]

Morning all,

Apologies for the radio silence. I haven't fallen off the edge of the earth – nor have I bought anything. I've just been taking a bit of time to step back and let my head clear.

All the options, all the advice, all the second‑guessing... I realised I was getting nowhere fast. So I pressed pause.

In the meantime, I've been doing what I probably should have been doing all along: just listening to music. I've spent a couple of very enjoyable evenings in downtown Dublin, at two bars that seem to be built around good sound and good taste.

The Big Romance (https://thebigromance.ie) – A lovely little spot on Parnell Street. Dark, intimate, very deliberately curated playlists. They play everything from jazz to classic soul to leftfield electronic, always at a sensible volume – you can actually talk, but the music still gets under your skin. Their cocktail list is excellent too. Felt like listening to a favourite uncle's record collection, if that uncle had impeccable taste.

Fidelity (https://fidelitybar.ie) – Down on Abbey Street, a bit more of a hi-fi bar vibe. They've got a proper soundsystem (I didn't quiz them on the components, but it sounded right), and they spin a lot of hip-hop, funk, and house. Busier, louder, but still warm and engaging. I sat at the back and just soaked it in. Reminded me that music doesn't need to be analysed – just felt.

Neither place cares about your amplifier's damping factor. Neither place judges your budget. Both places just love music. It's been a nice reminder that the whole point of this is the music, not the gear.

I'm slowly coming back to the decision‑making table with a clearer head. Not there yet, but getting closer.

Thanks for sticking with me.

Alistair

What you are doing sounds like a good idea. Are you able to find out what make and model speakers are used? IMHO the speakers are the most important part of the system.

Thanks for the update - many of us are following your journey with interest. Enjoy the music!

[Macca]

What you are doing sounds like a good idea. Are you able to find out what make and model speakers are used? IMHO the speakers are the most important part of the system.
!

First one says their system is custom built, second one just says they have one of the best systems in the country. Not that they want to over-sell it or anything :)

[Barry]

Aren't all systems "custom built", whether by oneself, or with help from a dealer?

All I asked was if Alistair could see if the speakers were commercially available (as distinct from being specially designed and built), and if commercial the name of the manufacturer. Whether the staff in the two hi-fi cafés know, or are willing to say is a separate matter.

[Alex_UK]

Sounds like an amazing couple of venues there Alistair! I think we need to organise an AoS field trip!

Joking aside, it sounds like you are doing the right thing by taking your time. And enjoying the music!

[Berni217]

Morning all,

Apologies for the radio silence. I haven't fallen off the edge of the earth – nor have I bought anything. I've just been taking a bit of time to step back and let my head clear.

All the options, all the advice, all the second‑guessing... I realised I was getting nowhere fast. So I pressed pause.

In the meantime, I've been doing what I probably should have been doing all along: just listening to music. I've spent a couple of very enjoyable evenings in downtown Dublin, at two bars that seem to be built around good sound and good taste.

The Big Romance (https://thebigromance.ie) – A lovely little spot on Parnell Street. Dark, intimate, very deliberately curated playlists. They play everything from jazz to classic soul to leftfield electronic, always at a sensible volume – you can actually talk, but the music still gets under your skin. Their cocktail list is excellent too. Felt like listening to a favourite uncle's record collection, if that uncle had impeccable taste.

Fidelity (https://fidelitybar.ie) – Down on Abbey Street, a bit more of a hi-fi bar vibe. They've got a proper soundsystem (I didn't quiz them on the components, but it sounded right), and they spin a lot of hip-hop, funk, and house. Busier, louder, but still warm and engaging. I sat at the back and just soaked it in. Reminded me that music doesn't need to be analysed – just felt.

Neither place cares about your amplifier's damping factor. Neither place judges your budget. Both places just love music. It's been a nice reminder that the whole point of this is the music, not the gear.

I'm slowly coming back to the decision‑making table with a clearer head. Not there yet, but getting closer.

Thanks for sticking with me.

Alistair

Hey Alistair,

Your note reminded me the fond memories of evenings spent in Temple Bar when I used to travel regularly to Dublin years ago.

You are doing the right things: take your time, trust your ears and enjoy the music… However the systems in those venues will likely be out of your budget as well as being professionally graded to handle the specific volume and performances levels.

Good luck with the search!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Maelstrom]

Afternoon all.

Quick update – I've taken the advice and booked an audition at HiFihut for this Wednesday afternoon.

I'll be going in with an open mind, but I've asked them to set up something comparable to my Richer Sounds shortlist – likely the Wharfedale Super Lintons with a Rega or other integrated amp in the same bracket. I'm curious to hear how a different room and different electronics change my perception.

I'll report back afterwards. Fingers crossed for clarity, not more confusion.

Alistair

[CageyH]

Hi Alistair,

How did it go?

[Maelstrom]

Morning all,

Following a recommendation from a fellow member, I decided to take a detour on my never-ending journey and pay a visit to HiFi Hut in Dublin. After my less-than-warm welcome at Cloney Audio, I wasn't expecting much. But from the moment I walked in, it was a completely different story.

They have a great setup just off the M50, and the team there were genuinely interested, asking about my room, my tastes (warm, engaging, non-fatiguing), and crucially, my £3-4k budget. They listened. No judgement, no pushing. Just a shared love of music.

I went in with a mission: to see if they could assemble a system from their stock to compete with my Richer Sounds front-runner—the Cambridge Audio EXA100 paired with the Wharfedale Super Lintons. And they did, proposing a really intriguing alternative.

Here's the core system they set up for me:

Streamer: WiiM Pro Plus – still the transparent, unbeatable value champion.

Amplifier: Rega Elex MK4 – 72W, built-in DAC, wonderfully musical and rhythmic.

Then we tried two different speakers with it.

First up: Spendor A2 – Beautifully made, refined, detailed. But in that demo room, they felt a little polite for my taste. Nina Simone's voice was pristine but lacked a bit of chest. Classic rock (Zeppelin, Floyd) sounded clean but slightly restrained. I could admire them, but I didn't feel them.

Then: Wharfedale Super Linton Heritage – And there it was. The same warmth and presence I remembered from Belfast. The Spendors told me what the recording sounded like; the Wharfedales told me how the music felt. They're not as precise, but they're infinitely more engaging. For my taste – classic rock, female vocals, jazz – they're just more fun.

The Rega Elex drove the Lintons beautifully – a touch more nimble and open than the Cambridge EXA100, with a lovely rhythmic drive. That was the deciding factor for me.

So I bought it. The whole system – WiiM, Rega, Lintons (with stands), and QED XT25 speaker cable as Derek recommended.

And here's the best part: Derek is delivering everything this afternoon. He's setting it up in my room and – because I asked – he's going to spend some time advising on acoustic treatment. Rugs, placement, maybe some simple DIY panels. He said with my 5x4m room and bare floors, a few cheap tweaks will get me most of the way.

For anyone in Ireland, I cannot recommend HiFi Hut enough. Ask for Derek – he knows his stuff and is a genuine pleasure to deal with.

By tonight, I'll have music in my house for the first time in years. I'll post photos once it's all in place.

Thanks again to everyone who pointed me in this direction.

Alistair

[Tim]

Hi Alistair,

You've made a sound choice there I feel. I have a WiiM Pro and an Elex Mk4 and I've been a fan of the Rega house sound for some years now, having recently replaced my Brio R with an Elex. I have heard the Linton's as well, good speakers and very good value, so I can't see you being unhappy with that combination, especially if you have been without a system for so long. The Linton's are a very non fatiguing speaker so you can listen to them for hours without them starting to get edgy - perfect for jazz and female vocal.

Happy days then and a great city to live in too. I always pop into Neary's for a pint when I'm in Dublin, can't beat a Neary's Guinness

:cool:

[Macca]

I thought you might procrastinate some more so well done for making the decision and going for it.

Look forward to seeing the pics of it all set up.

[Maelstrom]

Hi Tim

Thanks for an almost vote of confidence in the direction I'm going!

Ah, Neary's! Yes, it's an absolute gem. It's on Chatham Street, just off Grafton Street. Dark wood, old gas lamps, no TV, no piped music. Just good pints, good conversation, and a crowd of actors from the Gaiety Theatre next door. I've had some brilliant nights in there – lively after a show, peaceful on a quiet Sunday. One of my favourite spots in Dublin. Highly recommended.

Alistair

[CageyH]

Sounds like a nice result.
I hope they price matched RS on the speakers?

[Tim]

Hi Tim

Thanks for an almost vote of confidence in the direction I'm going!

Ah, Neary's! Yes, it's an absolute gem. It's on Chatham Street, just off Grafton Street. Dark wood, old gas lamps, no TV, no piped music. Just good pints, good conversation, and a crowd of actors from the Gaiety Theatre next door. I've had some brilliant nights in there – lively after a show, peaceful on a quiet Sunday. One of my favourite spots in Dublin. Highly recommended.

Alistair

I have a friend who sometimes plays on the open mic nights in Neary's. I think those gas lamps on the bar are some of the oldest working gas lamps in Ireland.

Did I not sound enthusiastic enough? I think that's a great system you've chosen, I could happily listen to it all day long :)

[Alex_UK]

Brilliant to read, Alistair - glad you've found the right system and I'm quite excited for you! So goodness knows how you must be feeling! I'm, a long time Wharfedale fan (though not had the modern Lintons) and Rega just do it right. I'm definitely interested in looking at the Wiim option, so it will be good to read how you get on with everything in your own place. Have fun! (And let us see some pictures!)

[Pigmy Pony]

Really pleased you've got yourself sorted Alistair, well done :) There's a lot of love for Rega's amps, I bet they'll work a treat with the Super Lintons. And it's nice that Derek will be coming round to set up and advise on room treatments - I reckon that'll make the difference between a good system and a great one :) Looking forward to some pics too.

[User211]

Kudos to Martin for recommending the selected speaker.

I don't really understand why I have never heard a pair. Probably because I never see Wharfedale at shows, I guess. Or at least notice them if they are there.

Enjoy.

[Jimbo]

Great choice Alistair. I have heard that exact system a few weeks ago and it is very impressive. I actually use the Wiim Pro Plus and bought the Rega Elex Mk4 recently to use in one of my systems and it sound excellent.

The Super Lintons are fabulous speakers and after listening to them with the Rega Elex Mk4 I may well buy a pair myself!

Enjoy your new system!

[Barry]

Yes, well done in taking your time and coming up with a system which will give you much musical pleasure. Today's going to be a landmark day for you! :)

We are indeed looking forward to seeing the photographs, and hoping you will post here regularly telling us of the music you are enjoying.
Again we'll done.

[Pigmy Pony]

Alistair doesn't seem to be listening to us this afternoon, he must be busy with something :)

[Barry]

Alistair doesn't seem to be listening to us this afternoon, he must be busy with something :)

Can't think what that might be - gardening perhaps?

[Pigmy Pony]

Can't think what that might be - gardening perhaps?

:D That'll be it - diggin' some quality sounds man :)

[CageyH]

Was there a bit of a late night listening session?
Does the system live up to your expectations now that you have got it home?

[Maelstrom]

Sounds like a nice result.
I hope they price matched RS on the speakers?

Morning Kevin,

You know what – I didn't even ask for a price match. And that's not like me, normally I'd haggle over a fiver.

But honestly? The overall package was so good that I didn't feel the need. The system came in very close to my budget top end – maybe a hair over – but when you factor in the free delivery, Derek spending a good chunk of his afternoon setting everything up in my actual room, and the hour or so of free advice on acoustic treatment (rugs, placement, the works)... it felt like incredible value.

Could I have saved a few quid shopping the individual components online? Probably. But I wouldn't have had someone standing in my living room, listening to my room, moving speakers an inch at a time, and telling me exactly where to put a rug. That's worth paying for.

So no price match. Just a very happy customer who feels like he got a fair deal from a decent human being.

Cheers,

Alistair

[Maelstrom]

Morning everyone,

I'm writing this with tired eyes and a very full heart. The system arrived yesterday afternoon. Derek from HiFi Hut delivered it himself, set everything up, tweaked the speaker positions, and gave me a proper room tutorial (rug down, first reflection points, the works).

And then he left. And I pressed play.

I honestly don't know where the evening went. I started with Nina Simone – I Put a Spell on You. My God. Her voice was right there, full of pain and power. Then Joni Mitchell's Blue. Then some John Coltrane. Then, because I couldn't resist, Led Zeppelin's When the Levee Breaks. The Super Lintons just kept delivering. Warm, engaging, never harsh. The Rega Elex MK4 drives them with such rhythmic energy – my foot hasn't stopped tapping.

I kept saying "just one more track" until I looked at the clock and it was past midnight. I finally tore myself away around 1am. Best kind of sleep deprivation.

I want to thank every single one of you who commented, offered advice, shared dealer recommendations, or just kept me company during the confusion. This forum has been a lifeline. I walked into this as a newly retired widower in a quiet house, not sure where to start. Now I have music again. Real music. And it feels like coming home.

Photos to follow once I stop listening long enough to take them.

With genuine gratitude,

Alistair

[CageyH]

I am glad to see that you have a system that truly delivers what you were looking for.
A great result. Enjoy it...

[Tim]

That sounds like a huge win to me . . .

Nina Simone, Joni Mitchell, Coltrane and Zeppelin . . . get in, what a playlist.

My experience with the Elex was it gets even better after a few days . . . she's a warm lady compared to my Brio, so you now have an extra heater for the winter.

Enjoy and I can almost see the grin on your face from Wales :)

[Barry]

I am glad to see that you have a system that truly delivers what you were looking for.
A great result. Enjoy it...

I think you have said all that we at AoS would like to say on Alistair's successful journey. Here's to many, many happy hours listening to music.

[Jimbo]

You know when your system is delivering what you want when you can't stop listening.....:)

[Maelstrom]

Afternoon all,

First, thank you again for all the encouragement and advice. The system is in, it's singing, and I've barely left the room.

But a question has been niggling at me – and I suspect some of you will have strong (and different) opinions.

Right now, I have the WiiM Pro Plus connected digitally – coaxial from the WiiM into the Elex's coaxial input. That means the Elex's internal Wolfson DAC is doing the conversion. And it sounds wonderful. No complaints.

However, I keep reading about the WiiM's own AKM 4493SEQ DAC, and all the features I'm missing out on by bypassing it. Things like the 10-band graphic EQ, parametric EQ, 26 preset EQ profiles, bass/treble adjustments, and room correction – all of which are only available when using the WiiM's analogue RCA outputs. Apparently, this flexibility is one of the main reasons people rate the Pro Plus so highly, but I'm not accessing any of it right now.

So my question is twofold:

Is it worth experimenting with an analogue (RCA) connection? I'm aware that would let me access the EQ and other features, making the WiiM a more active part of the system. But would that actually improve things in my room? Or would I just be introducing more processing into the signal path?

Which DAC is likely to sound better? The WiiM's AKM 4493SEQ is widely praised – though some on the WiiM forum say that with gear as resolving as the Rega, RCA can sound excellent too. But equally, the Rega's Wolfson DAC is no slouch. I've also read that the Elex's analogue section is completely unaffected by its digital inputs, with galvanic isolation keeping things clean.

I know the real answer is: buy a £10 cable and try both. And I probably will. But before I do – and before I potentially fall down another rabbit hole – I'd love to hear from anyone who has tried both approaches, or who has thoughts on whether the extra processing features (EQ, etc.) are genuinely useful or just a distraction.

Is this a worthy experiment, or should I just leave well enough alone and enjoy the music?

Grateful for any thoughts or experiences.

Alistair

[Macca]

I'd give it a few weeks first and see if anything crops up in the sound that you don't like. You need to go through a wide variety of music for that. Just take your time with it.

If after a few weeks you decide that it could be better, then you could think about using the various digital correction options.

Bear in mind the best way to do this is to get measurement mic and software and measure the response of the speakers in your room. It's not that hard but it is a lot of work and a learning curve.

Using the automatic room correction via phone mic very rarely gives good results, you'll just end up switching it off again. This is why you'll see people claiming that processing degrades the sound. You have to use it properly or not at all. 'Properly' means manually calibrating it based on reliable measurements.

The digital processing of room correction or parametric EQ will not degrade the signal in itself, this is the advantage of digital processing.

[Tim]

Alistair,

I can only half answer your question as I have the WiiM Pro and the DAC on that is IMO inferior (vastly) compared to a Rega DAC. It sounds flat with a compressed soundstage that just extends right to left between the speakers, not front to back as well. However I understand the Pro had a DAC upgrade, so if it has that may have changed.

I have both COAX and Optical available as outputs into the Elex, same as with the separate Rega DAC, but I pretty much always use COAX from the WiiM. Do they sound different? I think so, but I wouldn't bet a pint on winning a blind test. All I can say is that subconsciously I seem to prefer COAX as it never seems to stay on Optical for long, but that is a very subjective view. You might sit in my seat and think I'm wrong.

But you have answered your own question - there is really only one answer and that's to try it out for yourself and see which you prefer, especially if it's something you're wondering about?

I'm a great believer in that opinions on what's better is only something you can answer. You may often hear a difference when you change something, but does that mean it's better - or is it just different? I would wait awhile before changing things too - then go back again to see which you like the most.

My personal opinion is the Rega is a better DAC, but that's better for me as I prefer it. I am also used to the Rega DAC sound as I've used a Rega DAC for 15 years now and I like how it sounds. But I don't tend to change gear very often, in fact I find it stressful - when I hear something I like I tend to stop and just enjoy the music.

I had a Brio R and separate Rega DAC for 15 years before the Elex and I understand the DAC chip and circuitry is the same in the Elex.

As to the extra processing features - I've just looked at the EQ section in the WiiM app . . . crikey look at that lot! I think I've looked at them before, but that's as far as I've ever got.

That probably doesn't help at all . . . !

[CageyH]

Personally, I would see if I could borrow a decent RCA cable from HiFi Hut, and try it out myself.
You may find that the AKM is more accurate, but the Wolfson gives you the soul of the music, which is what you were looking for.

[Maelstrom]

Afternoon all,

A quick update for those who've been following along – and another request for the collective wisdom.

The system has been in place for just over a week now. I've been listening every evening, and I'm still absolutely delighted. The Rega and Lintons continue to put a smile on my face. I've been working my way through old favourites (Nina Simone, Zeppelin, Joni, Coltrane) and even dabbling in some new discoveries via the WiiM. No regrets. None.

So, all is well. Or it was, until yesterday.

My daughter-in-law – who is lovely, thoughtful, and knows I've been rediscovering music – heard I'd bought a new stereo (her words). She turned up yesterday with a gift wrapped in colourful paper. "I know you love music, and I saw this and thought of you," she said.

I opened it.

It's a vinyl record. A nice one, too – the 2022 reissue of Joni Mitchell's Blue. Beautiful sleeve. Heavy weight vinyl. Clearly chosen with care.

And of course, I don't have a turntable.

I smiled, thanked her warmly, and said it was perfect. Because it is perfect – just not for my current system.

So now I have a problem. A nice problem, but a problem.

Do I:

A) Gently tell her next time that I don't actually have a record player, but I'll treasure it anyway, and maybe use it as wall art?

B) Take this as the nudge I've secretly been wanting – and scratch the itch of adding a turntable to my system?

I'll be honest. I've been wondering about vinyl for a while. There's something about the ritual, the artwork, the physicality. And my system is already warm and engaging – a turntable might just complete the picture.

But I've spent my budget. I'd have to save up, or look for a good used deck. And I know little, now, of phono stages, cartridges, alignment – the whole vinyl world.

So, forum: what would you do? And if I go down the turntable path, where on earth do I start with a budget of, say, £500-800? Used Rega? Pro-Ject? Something else?

I wasn't expecting this twist. But maybe that's how these things are supposed to happen.

Alistair

[hifi_dave]

Get a Rega Planar 3 with Nd3 cartridge and enjoy your records trouble free. The Elex has a good internal phono stage so the Rega turntable will plug right in - no worries, no complications.

[Macca]

I'd pick option 'A' :)

If you only have the one record just consider the cost of amassing more. Decent used copies of anything are £10. Anything popular second hand is £20 to infinity. New pressings are £25 to £200 a go.

[Jimbo]

My recommendation would also be either a Rega Planar 3 as suggested by Dave or a Project Debut Pro.

[Alex_UK]

Nah, we all know the answer is B)! Itches are meant to be scratched, and Hifi_Dave knows his onions or rather his Regas - you won't go wrong with that advice.

(What a lovely daughter-in-law and thing to do!)

Martin's point is correct, the days of digging through charity shops and getting excellent albums at 50p a pop are long gone, but if you're not going crazy with the purchases it doesn't need to deplete the pension fund completely, and, at the end of the day, life's too short to not be enjoying yourself now you've finally retired. My opinion, of course, but go on, you know you want to!

[Tim]

Rega Planar 3 - no competition at that price point. If you use the cartridge hifi_dave has suggested, you'll have no worries about cartridge alignment or vertical tracking angles, just put Joni on, sit back and smile.

That's probably the easiest decision you've had to make so far and if you buy the two suggested items together, you won't even have to fit the cartridge!

Already owning the Elex MK4 makes it a no brainer IMHO :)

[Barry]

Hello Alistair,

You may be entering a whole, new and not inexpensive path with your interest in vinyl replay. But here goes:

Take Dave's advice and go for a Rega 3 with the N3d cartridge. The two are designed for one another and it is as close to a "plug and play" set up as you can find, and it is just within your budget at £800 - £850.

Go back to HiFi Hut and see if they have one. Sometimes dealers take in items as part exchange. If you are lucky they may have a used sample which they could sell to you. You would need to be assured that there is little stylus wear. And although I described the combination as 'plug and play', it would be best to have dealer set it up for you to achieve optimum performance.

So that is the encouraging part. The less than encouraging part is to pay heed to what Martin has said: new vinyl is expensive and buying used LPs is a minefield when it comes to sums paid and checking the condition of the record; visual appearance is not the only indicator. Also vinyl is a delicate medium: it has to be handled carefully, cleaned carefully and an eye kept on condition of the stylus. But if you find this routine attractive then there is little to stop you.

[Jimbo]

The phono stage in the Rega Elex Mk4 is superb so should sound excellent with the Rega planar 3.

[CageyH]

Don't forget you will need somewhere to put the TT as well, and depending on your house, you may need a wall mount.

[Pigmy Pony]

Don't forget to factor in that your friends and family would then have a much easier time deciding what to get you for Christmas/birthday/Father's day :)

For no logical reason whatsoever, I'll say go for it - when it comes to regrets it's always the things you didn't do that get you.

[Macca]

Technics SL1200 Mk7 is a very viable alternative to the Rega at that price level.

[User211]

I'm going to advise against it.

Why? Because I think decent vinyl replay requires high precision mechanical engineering that just costs a lot of money before you start to get acceptable results.

You'll soon hear the flaws with a budget setup. And while a very expensive set up can sound absolutely fantastic with some pressings, you'll still hear the flaws with substandard pressings and the surface noise.

I'm just saying it's a dangerous route to take as a retiree.

Just being honest as I see it. It's potentially a huge money pit.

[Tim]

. . . . It's potentially a huge money pit.

I agree, but it's still very possible to enjoy the pleasure of playing records without ever needing to jump into that money pit :)

[User211]

I agree, but it's still very possible to enjoy the pleasure of playing records without ever needing to jump into that money pit :)It's not our call, really.

Up to the OP to listen to our opinions. Only he knows his priorities and cash reserves.

If you tried hard as a retiree you could probably make money with buying and selling vinyl. Plenty of time for that!