Building a high quality laptop based audio system

[5by5]

Hello everyone. :) I hope that someone or a few might feel inspired to help me out with my goal below for building a high end laptop based audio system.

I have a couple of hard drives full of Flac files from CDs and want to use them to tie into a laptop based high end home audio system.

Does anyone have a system set up like this where their main concern was audio quality? Can you suggest how I should get started? What specific things to purchase for this goal. Example: what kind of laptotp; what kind of DAC; what kind of integrated amp., etc.

If you are kind enough to help, I'm a bit of a novice. So, if you can keep it simple I'll understand much better.

Thanks so much,

[Rare Bird]

I can help you

[5by5]

I can help you

Hello Andre. Thanks for responding. :)

1. I'm using a PC, so I'll probably stick with that.
2. I have heard some set-ups getting away on the cheap and acheiving some spectacular sound. I like this idea and who doesn't. What do you know about this.
3. I've heard that it would be better to purchase a separate DAC and not one on-board the amp.
4. As far as I know, you first have your hard drive full of high quality audio files. Check - I have this. Second, you need a laptop. I've heard some say to look at your laptop as a transfer only - I don't know what this means. Third, you need a DAC. Fourthly, you need and integrated amplifier. And fifthly, the wires to connect it altogether.

Tell me if I'm wrong with any of these. Or, if there is another way.

I want to stay away from wireless, and if the whole internet idea is taken away from us some day in some totalitarian grab for information control, I'd rather not have to rely on an internet connection. Just want to have a set up to listen to high quality sound from a laptop.

Thanks so much Andre, and I look forward to hearing from you.

p.s. I'm a layman in these matters, so if you can come down to my level when you explain things to me, I would really appreciate it, and absorb much more. Thanks Again.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

If useing a lap top you might be limited USB for conection to a dac... It's not the end of the world, but if you can find a laptop with a digital optical or coax conection that might be better.
Secondly, a dac that many of us on this forum have is a Beresford. Beresford dacs also have the option to be used as a pre amp. That opens up the possibility of using a dedicated power amp, and as such give you more choice for amp... And possibly better quality at the price point ... If that makes sence?
You haven't mentioned speakers?
If you already have some, what are they, that might help people recomend specific kit...
Cables are fairly important too, avoid the tat that can be bought for £20 from your local hifi dealer.. Look up mark grant cables, he is an independant manufacturer (and a member here and all round good chap). Independant manufacturers like mark grant and Stan Beresford (who makes Beresford dacs) offer great value as you don't have to pay the mark up you would when you buy stud from a shop... That is a good way to get good value for money ...

[Rare Bird]

As Hamish points out
If you don't have a digital link your only real option is use the USB to bypass the pooter soundcard, if you only wish to stream the music out into your hifi i highly recommend the HRT Streamer II..you'll hear a massive improvement over the soundcard, you'll of course have to go into your computer control pannel settings to select the connected streamer in 'sound & audio device's'. you obviously won't have an headphone output/pre amp this way & you will always be restriced using USB, i personally don't find this a problem..

[5by5]

Thanks Hamish and Andre for your responses.

1. Since I have not purchased the laptop yet, accept for my working one, would it be better for me to get an inexpensively built CPU with a monitor and keyboard thus giving me the ability to have an optical output put in? Would this give me the ability to achieve higher audio quality? Laptops with this feature are a bit dear in price.

2. The Beresford TC-7510 Dac and the DAC HRT of Andre's suggestion, are they as good as the Arcam or the Magic? Or are we talking oranges and apples. If they are as good in creating quality sound then nobody should spend the many extra dollars to go the other route.

3. And about speakers, I will be needing to get a pair of those also. Any suggestions for awesome sound at a reasonable price. I know it is a matter of personal preference, but in your opinion.

4. Once I, let's say get one of these DACS of your suggestion, what would you suggest I purchase to input it into, example integrated amp or another suggestion.

Thanks so much fellas for your time, and I look forward to hearing from you.:)

5by5

[Ali Tait]

Another option would be to buy a Squeezebox Touch.If the hard drives you have are external ones (or buy a case to put them in) you can connect them directly to the Touch via usb. The Touch has both analogue and digital outs,so intitially you could use the analogue outs straight into an amp,and then buy a dac such as the Beresford Caiman when funds permit. This would the most cost-effective solution IMO as you would not need to buy a laptop. The Touch sounds very good from it's analogue outs,and can he made even better with the addition of a decent dac.

[DSJR]

Many people who want a streaming solution don't seem to want a pile of odd boxes for the replay system. if you're one of these, then some decent active monitors should be considered. the standard output of the current beresford DACs may not be man enough to drive several metres of interconnect to the amp packs in these speakers, but the new "Gator" output circuit may be just the thing.

Of course, if the PC/laptop has a digital output (I think that laptop ideal is for neatness and hopefully low noise), then there are reasonable domestically acceptable active speakers with DAC and volume control built in (AVI ADM 9.1T) which seem to fit the bill for a good sound in a neat package and lowish cost (£1200 all in).

Have a look on the HDD forum. The regulars there are rather rigid in their beliefs on "legacy HiFi," but there's a huge knowledge base available regarding streaming audio (not just with a Mac/AVI solution either, although you'll have to hunt around a bit). You might find some of it useful.

[JOE!BLOGGS]

stream from your pc via 1000mb wired ethernet to a thin playstation 3 take the analogue output to a suitable amplifer and speakers take the hdmi to a hd tv
this setup will play all your flacs and hd films in very high quality
i have tried a great many dacs including the new arcam rdac last week and none compare to the singled ended capacitorless analogue output of the ps3

joe

[Marco]

Hi, "5by5"

Please add your first name and location details to your profile A.S.A.P, as you were asked to do in your Welcome thread.

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

[Welder]

Hello 5by5

I’m computer/file based for audio (see my sig)
It seems in general that the preferred laptops for audio are made by apple.
Apple computers do have some advantages compared to Windows and Linux and these are primarily ease of setup for bit perfect audio replay and 24/192 capable as standard with the newer OS.
However, any make with any OS is theoretically capable of providing bit perfect replay; a lot depends on how comfortable you are with computers and which OS you are familiar with. This also influences in what format you rip your music files.
It seems you have Flac files so a windows based system would be the most obvious choice. Windows 7 will allow you to access the core audio drivers but natively you will be restricted to 24/96 resolutions although some dacs come with custom 24/192 drivers but they tend to be the more expensive variety.

Given most laptops have USB rather than SPDIF, USB would seem the obvious choice. It is probably best to look for a dac that offers this as its primary method of connection. I personally found USB from my laptop superior to SPDIF from my main PC. In theory, any USB dac which offers some form of galvanic isolation from the computer will perform well with regard to data and power transmitted noise. After that it’s a matter of choosing a laptop with low mechanical noise.
The squeezebox method mentioned above should also be considered and has a very good reputation for sound quality here and on other forums but you will probably find a separate dac (using the squeezebox as server) will be necessary to get the best audio quality.
In my experience most dacs in the sub £500 bracket are equally capable providing the USB transfer is well implemented. It’s more a question of what suits the rest of your system. I preferred the sound of even the basic HRT Music Streamer to V-Dac, NOS and Beresford.
So, basically you will need to decide on which route you take after that your choices of dacs etc become a bit easier.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Thanks Hamish and Andre for your responses.

1. Since I have not purchased the laptop yet, accept for my working one, would it be better for me to get an inexpensively built CPU with a monitor and keyboard thus giving me the ability to have an optical output put in? Would this give me the ability to achieve higher audio quality? Laptops with this feature are a bit dear in price.


im not really that up on the usb as a digital conection, i use it in my caiman for listening to some spotify sometimes, but not often... i think someone else has commented a bit more and can probably help you make a better decision



2. The Beresford TC-7510 Dac and the DAC HRT of Andre's suggestion, are they as good as the Arcam or the Magic? Or are we talking oranges and apples. If they are as good in creating quality sound then nobody should spend the many extra dollars to go the other route.


the arcam and dac magic are possibly better jsut through being a bit newer as much as anything else... i dont know though i havent heard either .. or the 7510 for that matter :scratch:
the thing is though, it is often difficult to say one is better than another as some people have different preferences.
beresfords are great value because of the added features of headphone amp and pre amp. also stan beresford posts on here very frequently with little tips and tweaks for modifying his dacs to get the best out of them...
you just need to weigh up your options a bit ... all the dacs i have heard recently in the sub £500 bracket have been pretty good, just with a different presentation to the sound so i would say the dac is probably the least of your worries ... some people seem to slate the v-dac, at £159 rrp it is one of the cheapest, and i think its fairly good ..
a couple of people have said the hrt now, so if you dont need the fetures of the beresford then it would appear that would be a good option?



3. And about speakers, I will be needing to get a pair of those also. Any suggestions for awesome sound at a reasonable price. I know it is a matter of personal preference, but in your opinion.


the problem with speakers is your room.. the way speakers interact with a room is a pretty major factor. home dems are always worth while...
what is your budget?
i have a couple of pairs of little speakers that i rate really highly and would always recommend - dynaudio audience 42's and usher s520's. both can be bought for less then £200 second hand and both seem to be fairly widely recognised as good speakers so would perhaps be a good starting point



4. Once I, let's say get one of these DACS of your suggestion, what would you suggest I purchase to input it into, example integrated amp or another suggestion.


the dacs output goes into the input of the amp...
as i said before, if you get a dac with a built in pre amp you can get a power amp. if you buy a power amp for £200 you are getting £200 of amp where as if you get a £200 integrated some of that money has gone toward all the switches and volume control etc... so as a very loose rule a dedicated power amp is better at a price point. of course this is not always the case...

a very good starting point would be a hlly90 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HLLY-TAMP-90-90W-Class-T-AMP-AMPLIFIER-Tripath-TA2022-/260505669141?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Amplifiers&hash=item3ca7590e15

it is technically an integrated amp, but it works better with a pre amp, and works very well with the caiman. it is fantastic value for money too, in my books seeing off a lot of kit that you might find in a high street retailer at a good few times its value... i would seriously concider it as an option

a pair of dynaudio audience 42's, a hlly90, a caiman and some cables from mark grant would make a very nice set up for less than £600 (not inc computer or speaker stands)... and is in fact exactly what i use in my office system



Thanks so much fellas for your time, and I look forward to hearing from you.:)


no probs

the thing is with choosing hifi, is there is a hell of a lot out there to choose from. all recommendations are based on experience, but everyone's experience and preferences vary greatly. good sound quality is fairly easily attainable, sound quality that perfectly suits you is not... the more you buy, the more you listen to, the more complicated it gets... i have spent 12 years (with "proper" hifi) and a lot of ££££ getting my system to a stage i dont feel i need to upgrade ... there are people who never seem to reach that point ... it is worth getting as much advice as you can, but more important than that is going out and listening to stuff... you will no doubt buy stuff along the way that you later regret, but it is all experience in finding what suits you most!

[Rare Bird]

Sonus is well worth a look at...

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Also,

As Dave pointed out, active speakers are another option, but there are a few considerations

active speakers have a few pros and cons, the biggest advantage is that the amps inside them are designed to work with the speakers...
if you buy a normal stand alone amp it will have been designed, for the most part, to try and cope with powering as wide a range of speakers as possible... this is fine, but amps designed to work with the exact speaker they are powering is an obvious advantage...
the problem with them is that you are limiting you upgrade path... you want new amps, well, they are built into your speakers, so they need to be upgraded too!.. same goes vise versa

i have active speakers, they are without doubt the best speakers i have heard of their size... i am still paying for them... this is my experience, you might not have the same, which is why i didn't recommend them straight away... whilst finding your feet in hifi, it is probably advised to keep your options wide open

the avi things that dave recommends even have the dac built in... and as such provide literately zero upgrade path... of course if you believe the hype, you wont want to upgrade... im very sceptical, but havent heard them so cant comment

[John]

If you already have a Good DAC then all you need is USB/SPIF converter there quite cheap and work pretty well for me

[Alex_UK]

Sonus is well worth a look at...

Especially as you can now stream Spotify to them...

[DutchAudiophilist]

Hi!

I'm 'breaking in' my Beresford TC 7520 SE (Caiman) DAC and the results are stunning..I bought it for the same purpose as yours: a laptop-based upgrade. Take care of a HQ USB cable, not longer than 3 - 5 mtr.

Greetings.

[5by5]

Thanks so much members. :)

I just now have had a chance to get back on-line. It is going to take me a bit of time to digest all of your generous input. I feel like an "elementary" visiting the University he is planning on going to when he grows up.:stalks: Hopefully my learning curve has a little more haste to it than that eh!

Thanks again,

[Marco]

Hi "5by5",

I posted this earlier, which you appear to have ignored:


Hi, "5by5"

Please add your first name and location details to your profile A.S.A.P, as you were asked to do in your Welcome thread.

Cheers!

Marco.


You must comply before posting again or I'm afraid that I will have to temporarily remove your posting rights until you do as you have been asked.

I'm sorry to get 'heavy', but we insist on first names and locations being given by all members here, and you do appear to be ignoring my prompts.

Marco.

[5by5]

I ignored nothing. I just got back on-line and read your message just 20 minutes ago. What you have requested is done. I'm not on the computer 24/7 so I did not see your post until now. When I went on-line this evening I saw all of the help the members were offering and went straight to sending a general thank you without stopping to see yours.

[Marco]

Hi Chuck,

Thanks for your co-operation - much appreciated :)

Please however see my post #10 on page one of this thread.

It was made at 09:41 AM yesterday after you had posted your initial enquiry, well before the replies to you on page 2, therefore I would've presumed you'd have read that before the subsequent replies on the following page, which you responded to, unless of course you read backwards.... ;)

Anyway, no worries. Enjoy the forum and I hope you get all the info you need for your computer audio project :cool:

Marco.

[Ian Walker]

stream from your pc via 1000mb wired ethernet to a thin playstation 3 take the analogue output to a suitable amplifer and speakers take the hdmi to a hd tv
this setup will play all your flacs and hd films in very high quality
i have tried a great many dacs including the new arcam rdac last week and none compare to the singled ended capacitorless analogue output of the ps3

joe

ALLEBLOODYLOOLYA!!!At last someone has cotton'd on...this guys is the gospel according to Joe...and me.

Marco...make Joe a moderator:)

[Marco]

Hehehe... Aye, but you needed a Nicky-boy valvey buffty-poo to be safisfied with yours, shweety! :eyebrows: ;)

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

Also,

As Dave pointed out, active speakers are another option, but there are a few considerations



If i were gonna buy Active speakers the ones i'd buy would be an old pair of Meridian Actives...For modern day option, i've use KRK active monitors in an hifi enviroment to great effect..I've actually be toeing with the idea of getting my old Meridian 'M2's speakers back.

[squeezethatbuffalo]

Another option would be to buy a Squeezebox Touch.If the hard drives you have are external ones (or buy a case to put them in) you can connect them directly to the Touch via usb. The Touch has both analogue and digital outs,so intitially you could use the analogue outs straight into an amp,and then buy a dac such as the Beresford Caiman when funds permit. This would the most cost-effective solution IMO as you would not need to buy a laptop. The Touch sounds very good from it's analogue outs,and can he made even better with the addition of a decent dac.

Seconded. :exactly:

Chuck, if you don't mind running extra wires to the audio system, I'd recommend using the laptop (or any decent computer) as the server. Though obviously not as convenient, I find the efforts well rewarded.

[Ali Tait]

That's my next move Alex. I bought a guruplug for this very purpose but I don't know the first thing about linux,so I think I will sell it and buy a mini pc with windows to network the drives and run squeezecenter on.

[Stratmangler]

I remembered Tony Moore posting about using a Sheeva plug so dug about in the threads for this http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4987&highlight=tony+moore

Tony might be able to help you with setting up your GuruPlug.

[Ali Tait]

Cheers Chris, but it's not knowing linux that's the problem. Assuming I get it set up with Tony's or Nick's help, I still know next to nowt about it,so if I get any problems, I won't know how to fix it. Seemed like a good idea at the time, but now I'm not so sure. At least with a windows mini pc I've got a chance of sorting any problems myself.

Anyone want to buy a Guruplug??

[Vincent Kars]

It appeals to me.
A small box running Linux with MPD for the audio and a hell of a outboard DAC
But I don’t like the interfaces of almost all MPD clients and getting it right simply takes to much time
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Linux/Players/MPD/MPD.htm

[electric beach]

Another option would be to buy a Squeezebox Touch.If the hard drives you have are external ones (or buy a case to put them in) you can connect them directly to the Touch via usb. The Touch has both analogue and digital outs,so intitially you could use the analogue outs straight into an amp,and then buy a dac such as the Beresford Caiman when funds permit. This would the most cost-effective solution IMO as you would not need to buy a laptop. The Touch sounds very good from it's analogue outs,and can he made even better with the addition of a decent dac.

Oh, what a merry-go-round!

I followed Ian's example and instruction with a laptop/ethernet/chubby PS3 into the killer Dac I bought from him (Williams Audio Brass Boy :ner:).
Sound quality is certainly not an issue but all the laptop-PS3 connection faffing about is winding me right up. Not conducive to a relaxed and receptive state of mind for a listening sesh, keeps dropping the connection. If only the PS3 played Flac natively :doh:

Ali, you had me persuaded with your persistence about the Touch, was not convinced by the WD streamer and I think you know a thing ot two about great sound - then you start in with the 'getting a PC' stuff! :confused: I really was hoping to adopt computer audio but without the computer.

[Ian Walker]

"Sound quality is certainly not an issue but all the laptop-PS3 connection faffing about is winding me right up. Not conducive to a relaxed and receptive state of mind for a listening sesh, keeps dropping the connection. If only the PS3 played Flac natively "

Strange that mine has never ever dropped a connection...i'd say the easiest way to get rid of the pc would be to swap out the existing ps3 hd for a 1 or 2 tb one full of files...job done.

[Ali Tait]

Hi Steve,
Well yes, I didn't want the pc involved either! Buut,it's really for convenience and sound quality reasons. The first thing is getting new music onto the hard drive. Currently I have to unplug the Drobo from the Touch and then plug it into the old laptop I use for ripping music. I did manage at one point to add the Touch with connected Drobo as part of the network so I could send the music to the Drobo without all the unplugging, but the problem then was that it would take about an hour to rip a cd because of the tiny processor in the Touch. Now, for some reason I can't fathom, the network won't see the Drobo connected to the Touch, so I'm back to unplugging and plugging into the laptop to rip,then unplugging and replugging into the Touch etc etc ad nauseum...

The second reason is that it seems the Touch can sound much better if squeezecenter is running on a pc and not the Touch itself. There is also some software mods you can do when it's run like this to improve things even further.

I really didn't want to go down this route, but it seems I have to if I want to get the very best from the Touch,so I bit the bullet with the Guruplug, but now I think I'll just buy a nettop to network everything and to rip.cd's. I can leave it on 24/7 as they consume.very little power,and hopefully that will be it for a while until the direct coupled amps are paid for and I can start thinking about a killer dac to complete my system!

[electric beach]

Strange that mine has never ever dropped a connection...i'd say the easiest way to get rid of the pc would be to swap out the existing ps3 hd for a 1 or 2 tb one full of files...job done.

Yeah, I'm sure that I need a better router or a better choice of broadband service. I've had someone who knows about these things take a look but could find nowt wrong with my set-up or settings. The sound quality is excellent though, very easy, relaxed, non-digital, cohesive and 3 dimensional.

I tried the cheapest WD server and it bears no comparison. Just goes to show that it's not merely a question of having the benefit of playing ripped files rather than reading and converting them on the fly, as in CD replay.

[electric beach]

Hi Steve,
Well yes, I didn't want the pc involved either! Buut,it's really for convenience and sound quality reasons. The first thing is getting new music onto the hard drive. Currently I have to unplug the Drobo from the Touch and then plug it into the old laptop I use for ripping music. I did manage at one point to add the Touch with connected Drobo as part of the network so I could send the music to the Drobo without all the unplugging, but the problem then was that it would take about an hour to rip a cd because of the tiny processor in the Touch. Now, for some reason I can't fathom, the network won't see the Drobo connected to the Touch, so I'm back to unplugging and plugging into the laptop to rip,then unplugging and replugging into the Touch etc etc ad nauseum...


I don't mind ripping the discs seperately from the system, I do them on a laptop and only use a portable Passport drive at the moment. But I use our everyday laptop for the system, which comes in and out, so that's a pain. Then I have the PS3 connected to the main 50" screen for Blu Ray films, so I need to turn that on to manipulate the files for replay. I thought the Touch was going to be the panacea - plug in the drive, view on the Touch, no screen, no computer. Maybe it is. You mention needing a better DAC....

Many people willingly embrace the integration of a computer into their system but I want to get the damn thing out of my life for at least a few hours each day :stalks: I view my goal to be a sonically credible digital transport that plays merely plays a ripped file rather than reading/converting at the same time. But I don't intend to pay £800 for the pleasure. Would a DIY project be possible I wonder, without all the server options....

[Ali Tait]

Don't get me wrong,the Touch is great,and yes,sounds great on it's own.It is possible to improve the sound with a good dac though.

As for the computer bit,yes I agree entirely,but I'm hoping I can get something small that once set up and in the network, I can tuck away,leave on 24/7,and forget about.

The only reason for wanting to do this is to get the last little improvements can out of the Touch,otherwise I'd be quite happy to leave it as it is.Another great thing is being able to use my phone to control it.I can browse my music collection and control volume too.If you're considering a Touch I'd say go for it!

[electric beach]

Ali, I imagine your statics are quite revealing of the source. I'll soon have high sensitivity horns and therefore the chance to try a SET, both of which I understand to be revealing also, hence my logic regarding your judgement of the Touch.

But I don't know what other computer front end you've heard and are comparing it to as a reference. Audio reviews seem scant and those I see have described it as "a bit 2 dimensional" - something I don't think you'd tolerate. Do you use the analogue ouput or to a dac that you'd prefer to improve sometime?

Chuck says he wants a digital source, probably PC based but not necessarily. If we set aside all the internet connection matters and look soley to file selection and transfer, I seem to see more comments about handling issues with a computer rather than extolling the superior sonic capability or potential.

No doubt the PS3 sounds wonderful, but the PC part is necessary because it won't play fLACS. But the WD server plays them natively and doesn't sound so good, so what else is going on here - jitter reduction, filtering, etc?
You say the Touch has low processing power but the PS3 doesn't.

[Ali Tait]

I use the Touch through a tweaked Audio Note dac Zero. Two dimensional it aint!
There is better out there,but it will cost! Not heard one myself,but the modwright modified Transporter is meant to be the bee's bollocks.
If it's the best bang for the buck you want though, I'd get a touch and then have my mate Nick build you a valve output dac. i will be doing the same ultimately. It's the best I've heard.

[squeezethatbuffalo]

Hi Ali,

How would you describe Nick's valve output DAC (it's Buffalo based right)? I really like my BII+Legato, but I find the treble somewhat lacking. Don't get me wrong, it's good compared to many DACs, just not AS good as its exceptional bass and midrange.

I think that a good valve output stage may be the answer. What do you think?

Cheers,

[Ali Tait]

Well frankly it's the best digital source I've heard.I've only heard it properly in Nick's system though. It just seemed more vinyl-like than digital,with that 3d soundstage rather than the wall of sound you get with a lot of digi kit. Treble was very smooth,yet extended and not lacking detail. Bass very articulate too,especially through Nick's 15 inch woofers!

[Ali Tait]

He built one for someone that we heard at our last get-together,which had both his output stage and one from Buffalo,so it was easy to compare. No contest IMHO, Nick's stage was streets ahead. Uses cheap as chips Russian 6n1p's too!

[John]

To be honest Ali I think a lot of this is due to other parts of the Kit (rather than the digital side) I think my Laptop based system is pretty close to what I was getting with a VPI rim drive, the digital side has not changed over the last few years but big changes to the speakers and my system is now very holographic and with music that is well recorded gives you the illusion of being there
What is Nick arrangement

[Ali Tait]

Hi John,
Well yes I can't disagree,Nick's system is quite something, bur I will say the great sound I heard from the valve output stage blew away theBuffalo stage (both heard on the same system)

Nick's system the last time I heard it (it's always evolving) consists pd his own design 211 SE amp,which can run into A2,so can give I.think about 32w/ch. He uses his own design pre,which I think is a passive using TVC's with buffers before and after,so no issues with impedance matching. He usually uses vinyl,which consists of an SP10 in a slatedeck plinth. Speakers are OB's using Fostex full range, Fostex supertweeter,and Eminence 15 inch woofers. I'm sure he'll correct me if I have anything wrong.

[squeezethatbuffalo]

Well frankly it's the best digital source I've heard.I've only heard it properly in Nick's system though. It just seemed more vinyl-like than digital,with that 3d soundstage rather than the wall of sound you get with a lot of digi kit. Treble was very smooth,yet extended and not lacking detail. Bass very articulate too,especially through Nick's 15 inch woofers!

Thanks Ali, that sounds very promising! :eyebrows:

I'll have to try it once I find the time to source/recase everything.

[Rare Bird]

Looks like 5by5 not been around since :lolsign:

Really the best thing would to be buy a Sonos Bridge: 'BR100' & Zone player: 'ZP90',depending on his layout the 'ZP90' maybe all he needs he could connect a DAC to the Zone player: 'ZP90'...

[Ali Tait]

Yeah looks good Andre. Bit pricey though isn't it?

[5by5]

Hello Again:

I know that I've been MIA, but the mission was a success. ;)

First off, thanks for all of your past help and suggestions. Moocho Appreciato!

I have decided to start out my laptop based audio system by using my working computer as my server (instead of buying a new one right off) in order to see how that goes and from there I'll be in a better position to know what I will want for a more permanent solution as my server. Right off the bat this begs the question as naive as it may seem for one to ask: when using the laptop as a server or rather to stream high end audio into an external DAC, then into an amp and then lastly out of the speakers, will I still be able to carry on using this same laptop for my working computer or will I have to strictly dedicate it to the task at hand i.e. streaming high end audio and then from there, find another laptop for work?

Also, I believe it was John who mentioned that since I would be using the USB port, I will need to find a USB driver. Can someone explain what that means and what that will entail? I tried to research that but could not lay my finger on the info.

Thanks again fellas,

[Vincent Kars]

If you are going to use your laptop for direct playback using a USB-DAC
- you are not using it as a server
- you are not streaming
You are using the laptop as an audio PC.

If you have demanding other task running, it is possible that the audio get interrupted.
You don’t need any USB-driver as most USB-DACs use the native mode USB audio driver. If they don’t they come with a proprietary driver
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/USB.html

[5by5]

If you are going to use your laptop for direct playback using a USB-DAC
- you are not using it as a server
- you are not streaming
You are using the laptop as an audio PC.

If you have demanding other task running, it is possible that the audio get interrupted.
You don’t need any USB-driver as most USB-DACs use the native mode USB audio driver. If they don’t they come with a proprietary driver
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/USB.html

Hello Vincent: So, when I'm listening to my Flac files which are coming from an external Hard Drive through my laptop, then through an external DAC, into an amp, and out of the speakers, I am using my laptop as an audio PC?

If you don't mind, could you tell me how it works when a laptop is used as a transport in my above scenario? And is it at this point that it would be dedicated and not be able to be used as a working computer. Or is using your computer as a transport the same as using it as an audio PC. I actually think that this is what I meant (transport) when I asked my original question rather than server. Sorry about that.

Finally, I was wrong, John mentioned a USB converter not driver. Will I need one of these in my system? How does one go about finding one? Where should I start with this item in my list of items to buy?

Thanks very much,

[Vincent Kars]

A Squeezebox is a nice example.
There is a server (a NAS) in the network containing the audio and the library.
The clients (the SBs) browse the library of the server and if a song is selected it is streamed from the server over the network to the client using a specific protocol.

If you use you’re Pc for audio it is basically like running Word or Excel. This time you have a media player running and it sends the audio to a soundcard.

Dedicated audio PC
Nothing wrong by working on your PC and playing audio at the same time.
As mentioned before, if demands on the PC are high, you might get drop-outs in the audio.
Another claim is that the higher the system load, the more sound quality will suffer.
However, just start, you will find out if this applies to your situation or not.

Connecting
Most common: the soundcard has RCA out and the amp RCA in or soundcard has digital out and the amp likewise.
But most of the time your PC and your amp don’t have identical connections.
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/Connect/index_connect.htm

If not you have to find something else.
A USB-DAC is a good solution.
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/USB_DAC.htm

[5by5]

Hello:

I search the threads to see if I can answer some of my own questions, but some of them are so simple, it seems that they are just assumed and do not exist. So, I appreciate the help that you all are offering.

1. First off, after I get an external DAC using USB (that I still have yet to choose), I remember John saying that I will have to then get a USB converter. Can someone tell me what this is and where it is placed in the set-up? Can someone also recommend a couple of quality ones.

2. Also, when you plug in your DAC via USB to your laptop can someone lead me to a thread or explain to me what I need to do to my PC's set-up menu for it to recognize the external DAC. I'm using Vista.

3. Finally, can someone tell me how the PC knows not to use its own sound card when a USB connection to an external DAC is used?

4. I know I said finally but...........if the PC's sound card is being by-passed when you plug in your DAC via USB, what is replacing the work that the sound card once did? Does the DAC take over this job and therefore has the ability of a sound card? Naive I'm sure, but like I said, if I could find these little tidbits combing through the internet I surely would not expose my ignorance. So thanks for anything you can give me. And if you could dumb down your assistance to me so that one such as I can understand - that would be great.

Chuck

[The Vinyl Adventure]

1 don't worry about that, it's only if you get a dac without USB input.

2 when you plug the dac in your computer will recognise it straight away and just use it as a sound card ... There are things that can be done to improve the sound ... But you can come back to that when you get that far

3. The pc knows to use the dac because it is recognised as an external sound card ... Some computers require you to select the external sound card by going into the control panel, going to "sounds" and selecting it over the computers in built one. Some will just do it straight away without needing to be set .. If the problem arises and you cant fix it, pop back and ask the question and I'll tell you in more detail how to fix it...

4 the dac becomes the sound card for everything, although it is recommended that you turn of all the pc sounds - the little "ping" you get once in a while - apart from anything they get annoying when they come out the hifi

Also, the pc will be fine doing it's normal day to day tasks as the music players don't take up much power ... The only time my computer struggles with music is when I'm processing hundreds of photos ... Any other time it runs fine...

Don't worry to much if about the logistics of buying and setting this up, it only gets fiddly when trying to optimise the set up for the best quality... Until then it's just getting it plugged together correctly (very easy) and at worst having to change a fee very simple settings in windows ....

[5by5]

Hello:

Just wanted to pass on a thank you Hamish for your help. Those are clear and helpful answers. I will now be looking at getting the DAC portion of my gear. I'm looking at the Beresford Caiman; HRT Streamer 11 or Pro; Matrix Mini-iDAC or the Little dot DAC1. I'd like to get one with the balanced outs. Then right after that, I'll want to find a nice balanced amp. I might go as suggested the way of the power amp and choose a DAC that has a pre in it. I think getting an amp with good power right at the start will future proof me.

Thanks Again,

[technobear]

I don't want to confuse you so this is for the future:

It is possible to give your music player software exclusive access to the USB DAC whilst having Windows continue to play its noises through the built-in soundcard and laptop speakers.

So when you are up and running, come back and one of use will tell you how to do it.

[technobear]

This is quite helpful: http://www.rightnote.co.uk/pdfs/dcs_guide_to_computer_audio.pdf

[5by5]

Thanks for the heads up Chris and that offer of help. Much appreciated.

[WAD62]

Hi 5by5,

Apologies if this has already been covered in the thread, but what music player are you using/going to use on your laptop?

In my study I use my PC as a music source, playing FLAC from a NAS server, obviously as it's a PC I've got the option of a better internal soundcard (in this case an m-audio 2496). But I'd recommend getting the pro version of WinAmp (about £11 for multiple installations) as your player, it has a later version of DirectSound (2.49) which supports ReplayGain pre-amp. This is obviously only useful if you are going to use ReplayGain.

Give me a shout if you want me to expand on the use of ReplayGain & FLAC.

I often use my laptop for a bit of DJing, well pressing play on a WinAmp playlist and swanning off to the bar, is probably a better description. I've got one of these little devices (it's plug'n'play so no additional drivers are required, at least not with windows 7 anyway);

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MUSE-HIFI-USB-S-PDIF-Converter-USB-DAC-DTS-output-/120576181115?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c12e6837b#ht_3132wt_812

If the link doesn't work it's a Muse USB DAC DTS, which in itself is not a very good DAC (OK for portability but a bit rough) but it does offer an easy way to get SPDIF from your laptop, both optical and coax. I've used it in conjunction with a DacMagic III (although it does also have a USB option) and found it to be a very good option at the price. But obviously the sky's the limit when it comes to DAC quality and options.

That then opens up your DAC options to anything on the market, as you no longer need the USB connection. I had read somewhere that USB connections to a DAC were worse in quality than using an SPDIF source, but more learned people on here will be able to explain, something to do with timing...anyway I'll start reversing here.

[WAD62]

P.S. I noticed you mentioned about a pre-amp...

You won't need one as you can use the volume control on your laptop for the pre-amp, so you could simply have a DAC/poweramp combo without the need for a volume pot.

One interesting amplification option might therefore be the Bantam Monoblocks;

http://www.templeaudio.net/monoblock.html

I hasten to add I haven't heard these, however I have a Bantam Classic, and a Gold (temporarily), both are very nice value for money integrated amps for secondary systems, but probably lack a little power for a main one, the monoblocks would appear to have more grunt...at an additional price.