View Full Version : How to get rid of sibilance
Ive started to hear sibilance in my TT system and im beginning to suspect its not a component problem but set up.
Checked everything with a good protractor and scales, everything seems to be ok but ive never been sure as to anti skate setting. I used to set it using a blank disc but read not to do that. I set it according to tracking weight now but when i cue up the stylus drags itself to the inner groove quit violently.
Can you point out what im doing wrong please as this is becoming annoying.
hifi_dave
02-10-2010, 19:33
Sibilance is a normal occurrence with the human voice - singing or speech. What you don't want are recordings which emphasise it or equipment and combinations of equipment which accentuate it.
Another thing - sometimes people become sensitised to it and it drives them nuts, even when no one else can hear it...:brickwall:
In your case, has it begun to annoy you recently and with recorings which previously were OK ?
From your description of the stylus movement, it would appear that you do need a bit more antiskate.
What is the arm and cartridge ?
It is a recent thing and it wasnt there before on my most familiar recordings.
I hear it on cymbals to. The arm is a Jelco 250st and the cart is a Ortofon 2m blue.
hifi_dave
02-10-2010, 19:53
You haven't changed anything at all ?
Has the stylus had a lot of use ?
Go through the arm set up again, paticularly the overhang, VTA and tracking weight. Is the azimuth spot on ? Try thoroughly cleaning the stylus.
I did change vta significantly recently . It was tail down and i re adjusted using a tiny spirit level on the arm. What is the best way to adust anti skate,by ear?
hifi_dave
02-10-2010, 20:14
The best way to adjust everything is by ear but you can get a good approximation by using the run in or run out groove and observing the stylus movement as you have done.
Raising the rear of the arm so that the headshell points down towards the record will make the sound brighter and could ( ! ) emphasise sibilance. It's worth checking that adjustment again.
Thanks Dave . Work on it tomorrow. Im of to find that Croft 7 review . I know ive got it some where.
hifi_dave
02-10-2010, 20:25
Kessler did it a couple of months ago in Hi-Fi News. It was like a Bugati with a Rolex eating a Salami baguette or similar...:rolleyes:
hifi_dave
02-10-2010, 20:27
Sod - I've done 900 posts.
Must get a life...:goodnight:
CLEAN YER NEEDLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get some AT 607 stylus cleaning fluid and give that nail the scrubbing of its life - carefully ;) All your problems will be over if I'm right. I completely restored a supposedly knackered Stilton OC9 by doing just that!
dave2010
03-10-2010, 09:55
Not sure if this will help, but do you ever look at the stylus using a microscope? That should enable you to decide whether it's covered in crud, or otherwise damaged. Bit tricky to do, and I've not done it for a long while, and never was able to do as well as some of the old piccies in the Gramophone, but still useful for spotting the muck which may get glued onto the stylus.
If there is dirt on it, keep cleaning it (carefully) until you can see the diamond well.
I almost bought a cheap usb electronic magnifier to look at the stylus but wasnt sure it would be strong enough.
I was in no mood to check the deck this morning because i feel rough. I swear no booze passed my lips last night but i feel like ive had a big sesh.
What i did do was turn the anti skate from 2 down to 0.7 and so far it has made a big difference. Test a few more discs this morning and hopefully that will be the end of it.
spendorman
03-10-2010, 18:13
A good valve amp might help here. The sometimes rough treble from some transistor amps (not necessarily cheap ones) seems to accentuate sibilance.
Ive got my eye on the Croft 7 now after last nights posts.
Apart from recently bought sticky hands i must admit to not cleaning my stylus so i will look into some cleaning fluid.
ourdogmax
04-10-2010, 11:51
Hi, I just had exactly the same sort of problem with a DL-103, I bought this off ebay and on some tracks seemed OK, and on others terrible.
I really thought the stylus was completely knackered.:scratch:
I have just cleaned the tip with some isopropyl alcohol and it now sounds superb.:eyebrows:
Well worth a try.
Hypnotoad
05-10-2010, 02:34
You haven't changed anything at all ?
Has the stylus had a lot of use ?
Go through the arm set up again, paticularly the overhang, VTA and tracking weight. Is the azimuth spot on ? Try thoroughly cleaning the stylus.
I use some Magic Eraser on my stylus after every few albums and it does make a huge difference.
I saw a couple of styli microscopically enlarged and they looked like the hull of an old ship all this stuff like barnacles on them. After the Magic Eraser treatment they looked like new again.
You can use your cueing lever to gently lower the stylus into it a few times dry.
http://www.mrclean.com/en_US/magic-eraser.do
chris@panteg
05-10-2010, 10:02
Dave (DSJR) is right about the AT607 cleaner ! i wouldn't be without it now.
Thanks Dave:)
How regularly should you "dip your wick" - after x playing hours, or after a certain time period, regardless of playing?
Regularly sir, regularly! :eyebrows:
hifi_dave
05-10-2010, 18:56
How regularly ???
Daily regularly or yearly regularly ???...:lolsign:
anthonyTD
05-10-2010, 19:35
temperature can also play a big part.
when it gets colder the compliance of some cantilever/suspensions can be reduced.
anthony.
temperature can also play a big part.
when it gets colder the compliance of some cantilever/suspensions can be reduced.
anthony.
Agreed - most cartridges perform at their best at around 22 deg C.
Hypnotoad
05-10-2010, 23:18
How regularly should you "dip your wick" - after x playing hours, or after a certain time period, regardless of playing?
After every few albums or if you haven't used in for a while.
Try the magic eraser it's cheap and works perfectly if used as described.
I would worry using that liquid stuff and scrubbing it you could damage the canitilever.
With the magic eraser it's just a matter of lowering it into it with the cueing lever, like you would when playing a record only you lower and lift a few times.
No chemicals no harm.
How regularly should you "dip your wick" - after x playing hours, or after a certain time period, regardless of playing?
I'm sorely tempted to give that one the answer it deserves, Alex..............! :eyebrows:
Marco.
P.S Should I mention Gorgonzola? No, I'll leave it.
Theres a review of the lyra cleaning fluid in stereotimes claiming it can improve the stylus to the point of reducing surface noise. I would pay good money for that if its true.
I'm sorely tempted to give that one the answer it deserves, Alex..............! :eyebrows:
Marco.
P.S Should I mention Gorgonzola? No, I'll leave it.
??????????????
"Once a King always a King, but once a Knight is enough."
Whats this 'Magic Eraser' stuff then?
Regards
The Grand Wazoo
05-10-2010, 23:38
I'll send you a bit Barry.
The Grand Wazoo
05-10-2010, 23:41
It's melamine foam, used for cleaning household stuff, but it's good for styli too. It looks like a normal piece of foam sponge, but has millions of microscopic barbs that grab gunge. And diamonds if you're not careful. I've been using it for several years.
??????????????
Barry, it was in reference to a joke about a 'cheesy dip', which I'll tell you again some other time! :eyebrows:
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
05-10-2010, 23:43
Just to clarify, Magic Eraser is not cheese!
Just to clarify, Magic Eraser is not cheese!
Understood - otherwise it would be discussed in the 'Cheese Recommendations' thread. :)
Is it safe to use on the stylii of high compliance cartridges? It sounds 'tacky' - wouldn't want to rip off either the diamond tip or damage the cantilever suspension.
I would still like to try it out though - thanks for the offer of a sample, Chris.
Regards
The Grand Wazoo
06-10-2010, 06:35
There have been expensive accidents reported when very expensive cartridges have had their styli removed. These, as far as I know, are all from people trying to use it by hand cueing or by applying a sideswipe while the stylus is emerged in the foam. If it goes into it in the same direction as it comes out (i.e. vertically), then you're OK.
I'll stick a bit in the post.
Stratmangler
06-10-2010, 08:58
I have an Ortofon carbon fibre stylus cleaning brush http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/5905
Easy to use and not dear either.
I just rip the side off a SAFETY match box and drag it along the stylus as if it were the record surface. Turn the volume down when doing this. A lot of the grit on a stylus is welded on, so fancy foams and brushes don't have a hope of removing all of the stubborn abrasive record-damaging lumps. Diamond is quite hard, so you don't need to worry that a few wipes of an abrasive surface will harm it. I have been doing this for decades on very expensive cartridges with no ill effects.
My wick dipping cherry is popped! (Using the Audio Technica stylus cleaner Dave (DSJR) recommended.) I think I will try and dip it once a week in future. I know you have to be careful in which direction you do it, as you wouldn't want to rip off the shaft, but how many strokes should you give it? I did about 10 before I was happy, but is that too much or too little? And should I change my name to "I'm Finbarr Saunders"? :eyebrows:
Lyra stylus cleaner arrived today. A little bottle of very expensive fluid and a little paint brush for cleaning.
The results so far appear to be better tracking and much lower surface noise so very impressed.
Played Jeff Buckley Grace and Cat Powers the greatest, two albums causing me problems with sibilance. Still seemed to be there so maybe poor recordings.
Dont have a clue how to check condition of cartridge and because some Lps are playing so well im going to try and forget about it and see how i go.
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