Vinyl quality - not new news

[Pete The Cat]

I read a lot of comments from folks complaining about the pressing quality of modern records. Once in a while I encounter an issue, but in my experience it's not noticeably worse on black vinyl than back in the day. (I know that coloured vinyl per se isn't necessarily a cause, but the inability to see marks in certain colours/mixed colours during the QC process can mean that discs with problems pass through it).

I wonder whether there's a 'fings ain't what they used to be' at work here.

My first experience of poor quality was right when I started out buying LPs. My copy of Black Sabbath's Greatest Hits (1977) had silver-grey streaks in the vinyl and more surface noise. The shop arranged a replacement, which had the same issue. Being naive I wrote to NEMS about it and of course didn't receive a reply. The optimism of youth.

I remember that sibilance was a recurring issue back then. I put it down to using budget cartridges at the time. Fast forward to the present and last week I was playing an excellent looking second hand copy of 10cc's The Original Soundtrack from 1975. However the first track suffers from bad sibilance (I use a Rock/Benz Micro MC Gold) and the cymbals sound like an aerosol hairspray, noticeably distorting. I wondered whether it was worn but listening to excerpts of the same track on You Tube - two separate vinyl rips on different decks - reveals the exact same problems. Elsewhere on the internet I found an article from someone making a similar point when comparing it with later releases.

I've had a couple of '70s US copies of Led Zeppelin II. These were the ones that sold by the gazillion and cemented them in the US market after multiple tours. Part of the legend was that their manager Peter Grant insisted that their albums were pressed early in the day when the equipment and materials were at their cleanest, along with the classical vinyl. There were noticeable 'shading' marks within the vinyl and more surface noise than other versions.

I was reading a copy of Sounds from 1975 last week. There's a consumer letters page in which people wrote in to seek redress on issues (those were the days):

'Recently,I bought the LP 'Quadrophenia' by The Who,only to find that side four jumped in several places. I changed the album three times, but the record jumped in exactly the same places. I decided not to go back to the shop again (mainly due to the cost of travel) and because I also reckoned that the whole batch in this particular shop could be faulty. Can you help?'

'I recently bought a copy of the new Fox LP. But on playing it, I found that it squeaked or whistled on various tracks. The shopkeeper wouldn't change it so I returned it to GTO. They sent a replacement but this too squeaked. My record player is not the cause of the problem, as I have tried it on several different record players with the same result. Is this squeak a common fault or have I got a bad pressing?'

OK, hardly a statistically valid sample, but maybe folks have rose coloured specs (or maybe there are certain modern labels whose releases they're buying which do have a higher incidence). All I'm saying is that quality issues were around back in the day too. It's just a part of the hobby.

[Pigmy Pony]

Three records I played recently:

Hendrix - Axis: Bold as Love
Zappa - Hot Rats
Zappa/Mothers: Roxy & Elsewhere

These are all 50+ years old, and I've been playing them since the 70s. They all sound almost like new. Which is being kind to 'new', as some records I've bought in the last five years or so just develop more and more crackles each time I play them. And there's only me that handles them so I can't blame anyone else.

I did read that when CDs became the thing, many pressing plants closed. But with the resurgence of vinyl this old neglected equipment was hurriedly pressed back into service and operated by folk who weren't even born in vinyl's heyday. Don't know how much of this is true, but it makes sense to me.

[Macca]

It's a part of the vinyl hobby - added to the fact that most are warped to some extent and almost all do not have the hole exact centre.

Even so I rarely encountered pressings so bad that they were not 'good enough' in the 30 odd years I was buying vinyl. It was one thing when it was less than half the price of CD but now that role's reversed what's the point? Worse quality for more money.

I get the 'romantic' aspect and the big artwork but really I'm very glad to be out of that whole scene. I don't know now why I kept with it for so long.

[Barry]

Three records I played recently:

Hendrix - Axis: Bold as Love
Zappa - Hot Rats
Zappa/Mothers: Roxy & Elsewhere

These are all 50+ years old, and I've been playing them since the 70s. They all sound almost like new. Which is being kind to 'new', as some records I've bought in the last five years or so just develop more and more crackles each time I play them. And there's only me that handles them so I can't blame anyone else.

I did read that when CDs became the thing, many pressing plants closed. But with the resurgence of vinyl this old neglected equipment was hurriedly pressed back into service and operated by folk who weren't even born in vinyl's heyday. Don't know how much of this is true, but it makes sense to me.

That is precisely why modern vinyl is quite often of poor quality. Also 'back in the day' the major record labels took vinyl rejects into account. Today there are many more small independent labels who outsource the record pressing, but are not large enought to absorb the losses.

[mikeyb]

I've returned about 40% of my vinyl purchases from Amazon.

Badly warped
Scratched
Noisy
Pops and clicks
Damaged sleeves

What I do now is wait until the replacement or replacements are here then you can mix and match until you get a good copy.

It's great that the replacement ones are here long before you need to send back the crap ones

[Barry]

I don't think I have ever bought an LP from Amazon, but I would expect their packaging to be sufficiently robust so as to prevent damaging (dog-earing) the sleeve.

Can't understand how the record could become scratched as being new it should be sealed.

[mikeyb]

You'd think so but I know it happened, cos I was there [emoji16]

Forgot to say blobs of vinyl in the grooves too.

[Pete The Cat]

Not being contrary for its own sake (honest) but I think that warping in brand new records was more common in the old days. Today they're supplied in thicker card sleeves and mostly shrink wrapped. Back in the day the shop would keep them separately, so you'd take the empty sleeve from the rack to the counter and they'd go and get the disc from wherever they'd put it. Thinking about it I haven't bought a 'dished' or badly warped new record for a long time. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Anyways, I'm not an apologist for modern day pressings, simply saying that customers had some problems back then too, it's an inherently fraught medium.

[Barry]

No-one is denying that there weren't problems with vinyl pressings in the past. There were, but IMO there were far fewer then than now.

I think I only ever had to return an LP on two occasions.

The first was to HMV in Oxford Street in London, due to stylus skip and mistracking. They refused to replace it because when they played it on their player (with a cartridge tracking at several grams), it "played", whereas with my, then, Shure V15 III in an SME arm tracking at 1.25g, it would skip.
For that reason I have never shopped there again.

The second occasion I had to return a noisy LP to a private record shop near where I live. They accepted it back with no quibble and replaced it with another copy. In their words "It's the only way record companies will learn is if we return poor pressings".

As Martin has said, I feel no need to buy new vinyl ever again, despite the superior packaging.

[mikeyb]

I agree Barry, I've about 1000 LPs from the 70s right up to today that I bought new and the only ones I have ever had issue with are the ones made today.

They always seem to be loaded with static too, I'm sure they're made with a higher plastic content that just makes them create/contain more static.

[Pigmy Pony]

I can be tempted to buy new when it's selling really cheap (only happened twice in the last three years), otherwise I just seek out NM used copies. I don't even do that very often, most of my vinyl comes from family at Christmas and birthdays. I'm happy for them to do this as the alternative would be yet more "Grumpy old bastard" t shirts.

Apart from that it's CDs all the way for me.

[Barry]

I have a "Grumpy Old Man" mug, which is quite dear to me. :)

[Pigmy Pony]

Three or four mugs, three or four t shirts, a coaster and a book. I don't know why I put so much effort into being cheerful :(

[Macca]

Out of about 600 LPs I've only got one modern re-issue, that was a present off a brother. It's noisy.

Almost everything else was bought when it first came out or is an original pressing or an early re-issue. I found early pressings of old albums to be the best on the whole even if they cost more.

I see a lot of people older than me say that vinyl quality went down after the oil crisis in '73 but can't say there's a noticeable difference to me and I've got albums pressed either side of that period.

[Barry]

The effect of the oil crisis of '73 on record production was a widespread reduction in the weight and therefore thickness of LPs. Those thin LPs could not only double as 'wobble boards', they were also prone to record warp.

[Pigmy Pony]

The effect of the oil crisis of '73 on record production was a widespread reduction in the weight and therefore thickness of LPs. Those thin LPs could not only double as 'wobble boards', they were also prone to record warp.

I don't remember that, though there was RCA, who came up with "Dynaflex" around that time, an alternative to the recycled vinyl other manufacturers were using (with attendant impurities). They were very thin and wobbly. I seem to recall having a David Bowie LP that was Dynaflex, and my mate having a Lou Reed record using Dynaflex.

[Macca]

I have one Dynaflex, think it's an Isaac Hayes.

I don't really see any difference between pre and post '73 in terms of thickness. Some records are thicker than others but that seems to run right through to the end of the '90s at least. I don't have many titles that were released later than that.

But seems there's no rhyme or reason to - it for example:

I have two copies of 'Making Movies.' One is a re-release from '85 the other is an early repress from '83. About the same. A friend has a first pressing his elder sister bought when it first came out, and that's about the thickest record I ever saw.

[Barry]

RCA's "Dynaflex" records were marketed before the '73 oil crisis. RCA claimed the use of 'virgin' PVC allowed superior sounding records to be pressed, yet used less material and hence thinner records.

For other record manufacturers it was common practice to chip up unwanted or substandard records in order to recycle the material. Thus any new records could not claim to be 'virgin'.

It is a matter of controversy that the mixture of old with new vinyl affects the properties of the material as a sound recording medium. Some say that traces of the inner paper labels of poorly chipped records can be seen in new records using the mixture. I have never seen it myself.

I do have an US pressing of an Ainsley Dunbar record which is very thin: much thinner than the substantial cardboard sleeve protecting it. It sounds OK, but when I do play it I give it a couple of shakes just for that "woppa woppa" sound. :D

[Pete The Cat]

The effect of the oil crisis of '73 on record production was a widespread reduction in the weight and therefore thickness of LPs. Those thin LPs could not only double as 'wobble boards', they were also prone to record warp.

As many folks do, I have an original '60s copy of Herb Alpert's Whipped Cream... (for the music, obvs). It's thick like a dinner plate and if it landed on your foot it'd break your toe. Certainly most of my '70s LPs are thinner, but things seemed to worsen further around 1980 when I began seeing ridiculously flimsy LPs, as in floppy.

In recent times the same thing has happened with plastic pint glasses. They're like trying to hold a drink in a balloon.