View Full Version : The Quest Begins... (Dave's Odyssey)
Hi folks...;)
I thought I'd introduce myself by introducing the modest system I've assembled for very few readies over the past five months. It ain't high end gear but it's a lot of fun... :fingers:
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Vinyl%20Engine/MySystem3.jpg
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Vinyl%20Engine/HaflerInTheNaughtyCorner.jpg
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Vinyl%20Engine/DH-220VE.jpg
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Vinyl%20Engine/Mission773.jpg
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Vinyl%20Engine/LinnBasikLVX2.jpg
The journey continues....:band:
hornucopia
27-09-2010, 11:15
Nice amp. If it's original, you CAN get a kit from USA, via eBay to upgrade it and put new caps etc in. I got my DH200 done last year, plus the DH101/112 Pre-amp.
Chris in Bristol
I had a pair of the Mission 773e's for a couple of years. Very nice IMO
I bet that little system's brilliant. Well done and welcome :)
chris@panteg
28-09-2010, 08:47
Hi and welcome
i lived with one of those Hafler's for 6 months back in 1990 and although a little uncouth
it was a riot with rock:cool:
jandl100
28-09-2010, 10:00
Wow! - that little Sony tuner takes me back to me yoof!
Nice system you have there with no shortage of Watts from the Hafler.:cool:
Welcome to AoS 'synsei' (What is your real name? - we like to use real names here in AoS; it makes for a friendlier forum)
Nice system you have there - and from what you say, one for very little outlay. The Hafler power amplifier was well regarded in it's day. Nice one - I have the DH 101 pre-amp kicking around somewhere. David Hafler could certainly deliver value for money and would show a lot of current manufacturers a thing or two.
What are you tastes in music? Again we're a nosey bunch here and like to know everything. Don't be shy; we listen to it all all, and are not at all judgemental! :)
Enjoy the forum
Rare Bird
13-10-2010, 02:02
Nice Amps those Hafler 'DH220'..I had a brownish/green one in the mid 80's
(simular colour as the old Quad '303') complete with 'DH110' Pre!
Do you at all fancy fitting grab handles? the 'DH500' handles might fit, you'll have to measure the hole centres in the heatsink fins un enquire..They don't half finish the appearence off. :)
I have an Amusingly costly story to tell blowing a pair of tweeters up with the 'DH110' & A Nakamichi '482' cassette deck in record mode. :o
Welcome btw :wave:
It's been done many times that, blowing tweeters with the tape monitor circuit wide open - VERY easy to do with the Quad 44 preamp as I remember.
I understand that Haflers can be tweaked up very easily these days. Worth a Google to find out.
Reid Malenfant
13-10-2010, 18:50
I understand that Haflers can be tweaked up very easily these days. Worth a Google to find out.
Aye, lateral mosfets are still available at a reasonable price to, stuff using the Hitachi originals as they cost a fortune :eek: There are even double die versions if you so fancy, BUZ9**D or the standard single die versions BUZ9**.
These things are worth tweaking as components are still readily available to keep them alive. No telling what could be done with the PSU & from what i remember of the circuit it could be improved no end :) Good stuff never dies, it just gets better :eyebrows:
michaelhigh
22-10-2010, 22:14
Hi and welcome
i lived with one of those Hafler's for 6 months back in 1990 and although a little uncouth
it was a riot with rock:cool:
We use these in recording studios (rap vocal; not tracking) over here; our studios would certainly be considered uncouth to y'all. Mine's a cobbled mess, but I like the challenge of making silk purses out of sow's ears, as they say. YMMV.
Thanks for all the comments guys, it's been a while since I posted this thread and frankly I'd forgotten all about it coz I didn't subscribe... :doh:
The system has changed somewhat since I posted these pics, I no longer use the C340 as a 'pre' as I acquired a mint Audiolab 8000c for £120 from fleabay to take over the NAD's duties.
I've had to relegate the rather nice sounding Sony ST73 tuner to the garage. It was an impulse buy from eBay a couple of months back due to it being one of the matching components to my very first separates purchase back in 1980, a Sony TA73 integrated amp.
I love the style of this series from Sony and the fact that it's a little smaller than most gear and looks really cute stacked together. It's well built too and the design has stood the test of time in my opinion. Sadly I lost my TA73 in a move back in the early '90's and would dearly love to find another as it was a sweet sounding amp with a reasonable phono stage. It only kicked out 15wpc but that was ample at the time because I was living with my parents and had my setup in a tiny 9ft x 6.5ft bedroom. It was plenty loud enough for such a small space and would regularly attract a sharp rap on the bedroom door from my father who would inform me that Pink Floyd should probably be playing in a bigger, and more distant venue... :eyebrows:
I digress: The poor tuner is sick. It works well enough but it induces a loud hum into my system. It needs a good fettle but it'll have to wait for a while as there are other components in my system that need sorting out first, such as the Thoren's and eventually the Hafler.
I picked up the TD316 for under 80 quid on eBay and on Tuesday next I'm hoping to arrange for it to be serviced by John Townrow at Five Ways. The Hafler will be next in line and I'm hoping to pick up one of the kits mentioned above to bring it up to spec. Once purchased, all I need to do is find someone to do the work for me as it is beyond my capabilities and patience. Besides, I want it done right and in the minimum amount of time possible.
I really like the Hafler, it's gutsy and it certainly doesn't sound 'uncouth' in my system and besides, it gets on really well with my Rogers LS55's (the Mission's have moved on).
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Vinyl%20Engine/RogersLS55s.jpg
Take the Sony tuner with you. From memory, these old Sony's used three core mains leads and it may be that removing the earth wire from the mains plug may cure it, as the earthing is done via the signal screens - not ideal, but all the earths tend to end up at one point.
Ah, that's interesting Dave. So, I should just snip the earth lead at the plug end back to the insulation? Can you assure me this is safe to do?
Before you snip anything, detach the earth wire and feed it back outside the plug, making ABSOLUTELY SURE there will be no contact with the brown or blue wire strands. Connect the phonos before the mains lead and try again. If no better, switch off, disconnect and re-connect the earth wire in the plug.
chris@panteg
02-01-2011, 23:34
Hi Dave
Is that five ways hifidelity from brum by any chance ? if so i remember chatting to the owner one afternoon a long time ago and he certainly knows Thorens alright , i seem to remember him telling me he just got a Kenwood LO7D , could it be the same guy ? .
Sure is Chris, I'm calling him on Tuesday. Hoping it isn't going to be too expensive to fix... :sofa:
Welcome to AoS 'synsei' (What is your real name? - we like to use real names here in AoS; it makes for a friendlier forum)
Nice system you have there - and from what you say, one for very little outlay. The Hafler power amplifier was well regarded in it's day. Nice one - I have the DH 101 pre-amp kicking around somewhere. David Hafler could certainly deliver value for money and would show a lot of current manufacturers a thing or two.
What are you tastes in music? Again we're a nosey bunch here and like to know everything. Don't be shy; we listen to it all all, and are not at all judgemental! :)
Enjoy the forum
Thanks Barry... :wave:
I have an eclectic taste in music as I shall demonstrate... ;)
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Vinyl%20Engine/Records/CoolidgeKristoffersonJohhnyCliffJohnBlustoneBBKing .jpg http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Vinyl%20Engine/Records/Decca1-BrahnsMayallTeKanawaRollingStones.jpg
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Vinyl%20Engine/Records/ShakatakIanDruryABCSplitEnz.jpg http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Vinyl%20Engine/Records/StokowskiLehrerBeethoven.jpg
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Vinyl%20Engine/Records/TorvillDeanBarbaraDicksonJohnDenver.jpg http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Vinyl%20Engine/Records/BrainSaladSurgeryLiveStage.jpg
This a small selection from my vinyl collection (25p each from the local recycle centre and all in perfect or very good condition). I'm also into Pink Floyd, Led Zep, Fleetwood Mac, Yes, Eric Clapton, Kings Of Leon, Alanis Morissette, Rainbow, Genesis (especially the early stuff), Marillion, Electric Light Orchestra, Kate Bush, Tori Amos, Joe Jackson, The Proclaimers (don't laugh, Sunshine On Leith is a superb production), Elbow, Bjork, Howard Jones, The Human League, Gary Numan, Kraftwerk, Faithless, Massive Attack, Lemon Jelly, Level 42, Kiran Menon, José González, Lilly Allen, and many, many more...
Ahem, I did say 'eclectic'... :laugh:
Rare Bird
03-01-2011, 21:13
Whats that bottom one then?
I'M PERFECT! ARE YOU?
:lolsign:
Here are some more up to date pics of my system, plus my new toy (Thorens TD160mkII/SME Series III/Goldring IGC900 bought from Chris (SatanFriendly) on the 'Bay...
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Vinyl%20Engine/160mkII-SMESeriesIII-Goldring900IGC1.jpg
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Vinyl%20Engine/160mkII-SMESeriesIII-Goldring900IGC3.jpg
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Vinyl%20Engine/160mkII-SMESeriesIII-Goldring900IGC2.jpg
The learning curve starts tomorrow as I attempt to setup the Series III as it keeps skipping back a groove...
satanfriendly
12-01-2011, 09:02
You have a bottom plate already?
As I suggested in the house, the III was set up quickly to demonstrate. It may have gone off a little while in transit, especially the bias side of the story. I recall it never miss tracked from one end to the other on the B52's. I was rather stunned myself with its capability being as I had never had the SME and the G900 together before and rather made me think, 'well why didn't I try that one before?'.
Also worth checking the bias 'string' actually goes over the pulley because it is a bit of a bugger to position correctly. I had to revert to my rarely used glasses.
According to the VE data base the cartridge has a tracking force of between 0.75-1.5g of which the lower end is a little enthusiastic or wishful whichever way you want to look at it. Try 1.5 to 1.6 and bias accordingly.
You may have to add a little weight at the cartridge end if you have issues balancing (I've used a DIY PVC spacer on another arm in the past) as the G900 is exceptionally light at 4.5g.
No base as such Chris, but it just so happens that the granite platform I made for the TD316 fits the base aperture almost perfectly, so problem solved... ;)
You're probably right about the bias being disrupted by the journey home. That, and the fact that my makeshift rack has stupid plastic castors fitted which don't exactly keep the whole shebang level. Luckily the feet on the granite platform are adjustable, so I can use those to level the Thorens for now. I'm going to have to acquire a wall mount TT shelf at some point as the 160 is much more sensitive to floor bounce than the 316... :uhho:
Incidentally, Mrs 'S' thinks the 160 is a thing of beauty... :partytime:
satanfriendly
12-01-2011, 12:03
I'm sure it will all work out for you.
On the subject of footfall, I have a couple of sets of isopods spare I will post on to you. In hind sight I should have given you them while you were here. They may help to some extent. As you experienced here footfall wasn't really an issue so it may be down to your rack. Castors never were the best for isolation!
Pity I can't send on the wood which I forgot about.
At least the missus is happy, even if at the moment it appears to be an object of the eye more than of the ears.
Ok, got everything set up, no more jumping and the deck is level... :carrot:
First impressions:
When listening to this combination at Chris's place yesterday, I think we were both taken aback at how close in performance it was to his lovely Ariston RD110. I can't remember which arm Chris was running on the Ariston, although I believe the cart might have been an OC9. Not bad considering the Thorens was running without a base plate and feet.
The Goldring G900IGC is a perfect companion for the SME III and it shows. This combo is a very different animal to the TD316/LVX+/AT95. I'll try to explain what I'm hearing:
Listening to Brothers In Arms on both decks, the first thing that hits you is how much quieter this pressing sounds on the 160. It is a well used copy and on the 316 it sounds as if the recording engineer has close miked a bowl of Rice Krispies and placed it in the mix. Having said that, the 316/LVX/AT95he does a great job of reproducing the stunning detail present on this pressing. Where this combo lacks compared to the 160/SME/G900 is in dynamics. The best way for me to describe it is that the 160 combo sounds so much more 'grown up'. The sound is 'natural' and unforced, whereas the 316 appears to be giving you a very good facsimile of the performance. A better cartridge would probably address this somewhat, but I feel I would always be aware that the 316 was 'trying' rather than 'doing', if that makes sense. This is most apparent in the lower registers which are reproduced with such authority on the 160. I'm not saying the 316 is a bad deck because it isn't, I've enjoyed my ownership experience with this deck, however I am looking forward to spending a lot more time with the 160/SME/G900IGC... :champagne:
satanfriendly
12-01-2011, 13:26
Nice to hear it's all coming together. I tend to be an E-Bayer who likes to think that what I sold works as well for others as they did for me.
the arm on the 110 was a Audio Origami modified 774 with a heavier arm tube and different counterweight for MC's and an AT OC9 on the end. Not quite the cartridge many believe it to be and as much as I like it, it does disappoint in some areas.
I think what struck me about the Thoren's is how well the G900 mated with the SME especially in the higher registers which bettered the OC9 in being more natural, delicate and relaxed.
Far better than the Grado Platinum I used to run on the deck which despite being a pretty awesome cartridge, was just too polite. It took the Filth out of Cradle of Filth and made them sound rather more Cradle. It killed death metal.
Look forward to your updates Dave as your brain readjusts to the new toy.
Hahaha, i didn't remember about the wood either 'til I stopped at Sandbach services to grab a bite to eat and a ciggie.
I'm still experiencing occasional groove jumping, but I'm confident now that it is down to my rack and the suspended floor. The SME is far more delicate than the LVX+ so I shouldn't be surprised. Just got to the title track on Brothers In Arms and it sounds truly stunning.
I'll be doing some cable swapping shortly (thanx muchly for those btw). I'm going to try the red ones (TNTTNT's?) between my Caiman and the 8000c in place of some cheapo Monster Cables and I also bought some Belkin Pure AV Silver ic's a couple of weeks back to try between the Hafler and 8000c. It'll be an interesting comparison with the Gear City ic's I'm currently running. They cost the same (both are 2m lengths @ £11.99) but are built to a very high standard for the money. I'm expecting the Belkins to edge it as the decent quality RCA's are silver soldered to silver plated LOFC copper cables. I'll post back with the results a little later as soon as my vinyl stops jumping onto the Thorens. Nothing to do with me of course... :D
ps: Sorbathane isolaters? Your a gent Chris, thanx ;) Currently spinning Cameo's Word Up! :)
That arm and cartridge really should be a marriage made in heaven as the lively Goldring should balance the gentle (timid?) series III.. SME used to specify the bias correction 1/4g too much but I don't know if this still applies (the Ittok has been proved by my examination of worn styli to have too little bias if the gauge is to be trusted). The TD160 can be a great deck once set up right I think and suspension centering can be easily done on most except the earliest ones.
P.S. Make sure the belt is replaced regularly (annually?) if the deck is used a lot.
Nice Amps those Hafler 'DH220'..I had a brownish/green one in the mid 80's
(simular colour as the old Quad '303') complete with 'DH110' Pre!
Do you at all fancy fitting grab handles? the 'DH500' handles might fit, you'll have to measure the hole centres in the heatsink fins un enquire..They don't half finish the appearence off. :)
I have an Amusingly costly story to tell blowing a pair of tweeters up with the 'DH110' & A Nakamichi '482' cassette deck in record mode. :o
Welcome btw :wave:
Thanks Andre ;) Sorry for the late reply but somehow your comments got lost in the mix. I agree, grab handles would set the old 'Haf off nicely, not hard to find on Fleabay either.
Whats that bottom one then?
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Vinyl%20Engine/Records/BrainSaladSurgeryLiveStage.jpg
This one?
It's a promotional stage shot for a German ELP gig, thought I'd pop it in there... ;)
That arm and cartridge really should be a marriage made in heaven as the lively Goldring should balance the gentle (timid?) series III.. SME used to specify the bias correction 1/4g too much but I don't know if this still applies (the Ittok has been proved by my examination of worn styli to have too little bias if the gauge is to be trusted). The TD160 can be a great deck once set up right I think and suspension centering can be easily done on most except the earliest ones.
P.S. Make sure the belt is replaced regularly (annually?) if the deck is used a lot.
Taken the belt advice onboard, will buy a Joel's Kit off eBay next month to be sure :wave:
My only concern with the G900 is going to manifest when I need to source a new stylus, they appear to be as rare as rocking horse poo. Do Goldring still produce 'em, or maybe VDH offer a retip service?
The TT looks lovelly Yes a good wall shelf should really help
Thanks John, it is a rather stunning example and sounds it too. I'm very grateful to Chris for all the advice and extras he threw in for free, and also for the work he did the night before to refit the arm and cart. I'm trialling the Goldring with an option to buy and so far I'm suitably impressed. The only thing that worries me, as I mentioned above, is the availability of replacement styli. There are a lot of inferior ones available, but it would be criminal to use anything other than the original VDH tip in this fine cartridge.
satanfriendly
12-01-2011, 16:17
The yellow cables on the arm are TNTTNT's and if I remember the red ones are Chameleon. The VDH are the short yellow cables and they are great between pre/power or CD/DAC. Do check the phono's on the VDH's though.
Yup that is the main issue with the G900. The stylus. You see them rarely on E-Bay and I am sure that there are one or two still alive with dealers. Not cheap though. The more common 'blue' replacement is a little less rare, but you do lose the VDH stylus if I remember correctly. Be worth inspecting the stylus as I suspect there is more life left in it than you probably think there is. It tracks as if new and I think had little use before I got my grubby mits on it.
It may be a case of do I live with it until destruction and try to find a replacement stylus or enjoy what life there is and change completely in the future? Don't forget I will happily take it back.
The yellow cables on the arm are TNTTNT's and if I remember the red ones are Chameleon. The VDH are the short yellow cables and they are great between pre/power or CD/DAC. Do check the phono's on the VDH's though.
Yup that is the main issue with the G900. The stylus. You see them rarely on E-Bay and I am sure that there are one or two still alive with dealers. Not cheap though. The more common 'blue' replacement is a little less rare, but you do lose the VDH stylus if I remember correctly. Be worth inspecting the stylus as I suspect there is more life left in it than you probably think there is. It tracks as if new and I think had little use before I got my grubby mits on it.
It may be a case of do I live with it until destruction and try to find a replacement stylus or enjoy what life there is and change completely in the future? Don't forget I will happily take it back.
Unfortunately the VDH cables are currently way too short for either application due to how I have my system configured. That may change once I obtain a more suitable rack however... :)
As you mention, I'm sure there is plenty of life in the IGC. I've rather fallen in love with the old girl so it would be a shame to break up such a good relationship... :lolsign:
I've subsequently discovered that I can obtain an HE stylus for the G900 from Canadian Astatic for an extremely reasonable price. In the meantime I'll keep scouring the net for another IGC as insurance... :lol:
Swapped out the Monster ic's from the Caiman to the 8000c for the Chameleons and surprise, surprise, the Monster ic's were shite. Nuff said :eyebrows:
Taken the belt advice onboard, will buy a Joel's Kit off eBay next month to be sure :wave:
My only concern with the G900 is going to manifest when I need to source a new stylus, they appear to be as rare as rocking horse poo. Do Goldring still produce 'em, or maybe VDH offer a retip service?
VDH used to do re-tips, but my memories are from years ago now :(
Expert Styli have their excellent Paratrace tip and I'm sure they'd be delighted to refurbish yours when the time comes.
By the way, the later SME CA1 arm-wand was in a different material, the shell was apparently altered slightly and the performance improved - enough to give the simplified IIIS arm a recommendation in HFC IIRC. It'll never take a Denon 103, but I suspect an AT440MLa, 150MLX and even the OC9 and siblings would work well, although I's possibly add the damper part filled with baby oil.
Thanks for the SME armwand tip Dave, found this on eBay. If it truly is a CA 1 (excuse my ignorance), it looks identical to the one fitted to my arm...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SME-arm-wand-/260719489852#ht_500wt_1156
satanfriendly
14-01-2011, 17:15
Any further thoughts now you've had a few days living with the new toy? Which reminds me to post the pods off tomorrow as rather overlooked due to re-building the kitchen. Well, more a case of tidying up the crap we've inherited.
Think you may find the arm tube is indeed the CA1 made from titanium nitride.
Any further thoughts now you've had a few days living with the new toy? Which reminds me to post the pods off tomorrow as rather overlooked due to re-building the kitchen. Well, more a case of tidying up the crap we've inherited.
Think you may find the arm tube is indeed the CA1 made from titanium nitride.
I've managed to get the deck good and level now which has made a big difference, although the arm still skips back a groove occasionally. I'll be making some small adjustments to the arm as soon as I'm feeling confident and competent enough to do so :)
I'm finding that the 160 has a richer sound overall than the 316, which can sound a touch weedy, especially in the lower registers by comparison. The detail the Goldring can dig out of a groove is truly stunning. My partner and I sat and listened to Dire Straights, Brothers In Arms again a few days ago, an album we both like very much and which we played regularly on the 316. I could easily determine detail previously absent when playing this album on the 316. I kept schtum though and left it to Jo to comment on how 'natural' it sounded. She was particularly taken aback by the dynamism of the drum hits on this album. I'd dearly love to get hold of another copy of Love Over Gold on vinyl to hear what the TD160 can do with Private Investigations.
We've decided we are going to keep the G900 but also try out an AT440MLa at some point after we've paid you for the Goldring to see if it could be a suitable modern alternative. I was also wondering if the SME III is capable of keeping a Denon DL160 under control without the dampening trough?
The granite isolation platform I have the 160 placed upon is such a good fit into the base aperture, and has tightened up the dynamics to such an extent that I've chosen not to bother buying an original base plate. It is resting on four small, clear polyurethane feet glued to the triangular corner stays which the base is usually secured to. It is a simple and elegant solution that I feel enhances the aesthetics and sound of the deck, with the added bonus that it has saved me a little wonga... ;)
Right, going to repost some pics as I renamed the folder in which all my Hi-Fi pics are stored in Photobucket not realising how it would affect the pics in all my posts :steam:
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/160mkII-SMESeriesIII-Goldring900IGC2.jpg http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/160mkII-SMESeriesIII-Goldring900IGC3.jpg http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/DH-220VE.jpghttp://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/RogersLS55s.jpg
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