The £500 challenge

[Ashmore]

I could do with some expert help and opinion please audio folk.

I want a system for my small front room. Regretably I'm not loaded; 500 quid (or thereabouts) will have to cover the whole shooting match. I want my money to stretch, so I'm assuming everything will be second hand.

I stream music using squeezebox players, so the first £70 will probably go on a second hand SB3 (classic).

So that leaves £430ish for an amp, speakers and speaker stands. A decent DAC can come later.

The speakers must be small - if I bring home anything the size of my PMC FB1s the wife will either kick me out or kick me to death. I'd happily go active and cut out the need for a separate amp, should folk feel there's some half decent kit to be had within the budget.

I realise my request is pretty broad but any thoughts to get me started would be helpful.

Cheers

Simon

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Small active speakers? :)
Take up hardly any space if the room is small?

[Ashmore]

Well yeah Hamish, that's sort of the idea, but I have no experience of such equipment - any specific recommendations would be really helpful.

I know you've got actives but suspect they're way over budget!

Simon

[DSJR]

Take a look at the Behringer actives for a couple of hundred quid, give or take. I've heard the bigger ones and they're surprisingly good - much better than cheapo KEF or B&W profit-boxes

http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/behringer-b2031a-truth-active-studio-monitors-pair--22836

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/B2031A.jpg

For a control unit able to properly drive remote amps as fitted to smaller actives, try this -

http://www.spl.info/index.php?id=184&L=1

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/volume2_315x225.jpg

or perhaps this one with built-in DAC -

http://www.tcelectronic.com/bmc-2.asp

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/bmc-2_product_banner.jpg


I haven't a clue of this sort of thing will suit you as against a small pile of vintage boxes, but I'll tell you this - the above products are simple, properly done without foo of any kind and will lack the huge audio manufacture and dealer margins. The volumes these products sell in are higher than domestic gear these days and pro's have never entertained "boutique" pricing.

[Clive]

I'm thinking of a system for our kitchen along similar lines. I like the look of those Behringer active speakers. Teaming them up with an SB Touch could give a really simple system. The Touch I think has a variable output doesn't it? Ok no doubt it's chucking away digits but for a kitchen system does this matter? Simplicity matters too. Also a Touch won't need an external DAC to sound good.

[DSJR]

I'm reliably informed that modern digital volume controls have no insertion effect on CD quality audio.

My only feeling is that a Squeezebox may not take to driving long interconnects properly, although a mate with ATC100A's went over to driving them with one (latterly a transporter) with no problem..

[Clive]

I'm reliably informed that modern digital volume controls have no insertion effect on CD quality audio.

My only feeling is that a Squeezebox may not take to driving long interconnects properly, although a mate with ATC100A's went over to driving them with one (latterly a transporter) with no problem..
I suppose it depends how long "long" is. I was thinking of having the speakers close the Touch anyway so 1m of i/cs.

[Ali Tait]

AFAIK Clive,as long as you keep the volume above 70%,there is no loss.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I didn't even read the post properly - I missed the bit you said about active :doh:
I don't even know, I was hoping the mention of active was usefull enough... But you had already said it ... Il get mi coat

The only other actives I have heard (that are small enough to mention in this thread) are the dynaudio bm5a's which I thought very good and you might squeeze for your budget on the s/h market and the little Adam A5's which would be in budget. Although despite hearing them and thinking they were pretty good (perhaps not as good as the dyns) I'm lead to believe they can sound a little bright (someone on here told me that, I can't remember who)

Another option within your budget would be a posh tripath like the hlly90 as an amp, then maybe, usher s520's - slightly "sparkly" combo in my office, but only cost £260 s/h.
The hlly drove my pmc fb1+ speakers quite nicely too, and are currently being used with these snell speakers I still have ... Although they are the only ones that so far haven't liked the hlly at anything other than low volumes. The best combo is prob with the dynaudio a42's, and they come pretty cheap s/h now....




That spl thing looks interesting ... Fair play to them, if they wanna break into the audiophile market that's a pretty good review on 6moons to kick start eh?

[Rare Bird]

Hamish:
Just to point out the Audio input on those Dynaudio's BM5a is on XLR

[Techno Commander]

Behringer are good, although I would recommend spending another £30 over the ones mentioned above and get the 3031A (http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/behringer-truth-b3031a-studio-reference-monitors--61718) version with the ribbon tweeter and kevlar bass driver at £286.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:B4HxDEqmoxseMM:http://www.americanmusical.com/ProductImages/Large/54775.jpg&t=1

This still leaves around £175 for a decent preamp.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Hamish:
Just to point out the Audio input on those Dynaudio's BM5a is on XLR

nothing a quick call to mark grant cant fix

[Ashmore]

Thanks guys, just exploring the Behringers for a moment (Hamish, I appreciate your post and will look into your suggestions later on this evening when time isn't restricted by baby nap length)...

Dave, were you suggesting control boxes just to manage volume control? Do you agree that the digital volume on an SB might obviate that need as another poster asked? These things are outside of my experience so I just want to be equipped to weigh the pros and cons.

Separately, I hadn't thought about long interconnects. I was thinking I'd have the SB on top of one of the speakers - thus the lead to the other would have to be a good couple of meters long. Do you envisage this being a problem? I presume you'd recommend interconnects of equal length...

Having never used active speakers I can't think why I'd need a pre. I don't envisage using any other sources. But are there other benefits I'm missing? Connection between pre and the actives would still be by interconnect rather than speaker wire wouldn't it?

Lastly, I've heard that monitors designed primarily for studio use are voiced differently from home hifi speakers and that they may sound fatiguing. What's the common view here about that?

Thanks for all the comments so far.

Simon

[Ali Tait]

No reason you couldn't connect the SB directly into an active pair of speakers via the analogue outs and use the digi volume.Would give you more money to spend on the speakers,and you could buy a dac later when funds permit.Beresford springs to mind,which could double as a preamp if necessary.

[Ashmore]

Update

I've had a major rethink and have decided that a cheap pair of monitors (good though they may be) is not the way for me to go. My apologies to those who contributed, though the exploration has been interesting and helped to shape my decision.

My cunning plan to build a more formidable second system requires a sacrifice; I am going to flog my wonderful PMC FB1+s. They are truly superb speakers, but now seem too big for a room that my lovely missus has re-designated as the dining room. (Hence my original post; I aim to retreat into the other room).

I will give the price some thought and post on the for sale board. Needless to say if anyone is interested please get in touch. The speakers are immaculate.

Simon

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Bloody good speakers these ... Took me huge investment to beat them with any conviction!

[DSJR]

FB1's boom low down, as many passive speakers can and do, and the transmission line makes the upper bass a bit awkward in some rooms. it won't be difficult to find some used classics under a grand that will beat them I reckon.

The "Volume 2" unit I recommended is a balanced active line stage specifically made to drive several metres at least of cable to remote amps or active monitors. I don't think the analogue outputs of, say, a Caiman would be as good. TRhe BMC-2 DAC/Volume driver is also well worth considering as again, it has an active balanced line driver, rather than several inputs as the Caiman does... However, the Gator update is about to be unleashed and this may just improve the driving ability of the Caiman.

Re digital volume controls. Ali, I've been reliably informed that these devices work well away from 16/44 resolution so shouldn't have any effect on the sound at all...