Suggies croaked it

[Mikeandvan]

Turned me Suggie on, nothing, wtf? A21s-I, so not an old model.

[Lawrence001]

Checked the fuse?

Sent from my PCT-L29 using Tapatalk

[Mikeandvan]

Checked the fuse?

Sent from my PCT-L29 using Tapatalk

in the plug? I just used another plug, same

[Lawrence001]

Maybe a fuse inside?

Sent from my PCT-L29 using Tapatalk

[Mikeandvan]

Maybe a fuse inside?

Sent from my PCT-L29 using Tapatalk

fuck knows, where do I look

[Barry]

Is it a Sugden A21se Signature? If so, the fuse is under the mains connector on the rear of the amplifier, to the right of the speaker connections.

[Ali Tait]

There'll likely be fuses on the circuit board inside also, check those if the others are ok.

[Mikeandvan]

Is it a Sugden A21se Signature? If so, the fuse is under the mains connector on the rear of the amplifier, to the right of the speaker connections.

Thanks, its the a21l-s or something, but the fuse below the socket, its blown , i replaced it but it just keeps on blowing

[Barry]

Yes, there are two 2.5A quick-blow fuses on each of the power amplifier boards.

They are there to protect the amplifier power output stages from faults, such as the speaker terminals being short circuited. If any of the fuses have blown, carefully check that there are no stray wires where the speaker cables connect with the speaker terminals of the amplifier. If you simply replace the fuse(s) without finding the cause, the fuses will just blow again and might cause damage to the amp.

[Barry]

Thanks, its the a21l-s or something, but the fuse below the socket, its blown , i replaced it but it just keeps on blowing

That sounds like there is a problem with the power supply. It could be a number of things: faulty mains transformer; faulty diodes or bridge rectifier, or even one or more of the smoothing capacitors.

Is there a audio dealer near you who could look at it and diagnose the problem?

[Mikeandvan]

That sounds like there is a problem with the power supply. It could be a number of things: faulty mains transformer; faulty diodes or bridge rectifier, or even one or more of the smoothing capacitors.

Is there a audio dealer near you who could look at it and diagnose the problem?

There's a few dealers, but I don't think any deal in sugden, the fuses inside the amp are ok. no stray speaker wire, as I use plugs.

[Macca]

There's a few dealers, but I don't think any deal in sugden, the fuses inside the amp are ok. no stray speaker wire, as I use plugs.

They don't need to deal in Sugden, an amplifier's an amplifier. As long as they have a repair service, they'll look at it.

In the meantime get a reliable Japanese amp, like a Sony or JVC.

[Mikeandvan]

They don't need to deal in Sugden, an amplifier's an amplifier. As long as they have a repair service, they'll look at it.

In the meantime get a reliable Japanese amp, like a Sony or JVC.

I think the Suggies wear out because they get so hot, I leave mine on for long periods.

[Macca]

I think the Suggies wear out because they get so hot, I leave mine on for long periods.

It won't help that's true.

[Mikeandvan]

Anyone recommend where I can get this fixed?

[Macca]

You still in Brighton?

Look for a place doing pro audio or car audio, they'll probably repair it although you'll likely have a wait.

[Barry]

I think the Suggies wear out because they get so hot, I leave mine on for long periods.

Your amp is pure Class A (as are all Sugden amps) and thus run hot. The theoretical efficiency of Class A amplifiers is 50%, but in practice it can be less.

Your amp provides a maximum of 23W, which means that at least 23W is dissipated as heat, and of the available power that is not dissipated in the speaker as sound, is dissipated as heat. So if the amp is 'idling' with no acoustic output, it is dissipating 46W of heat per channel; or nearly 100W in total!

I have used a couple of Class A amplifiers having an audio outputs of 12.5W and 25W per channel and they all ran hot, with the result that the higher powered version failed twice with time, despite it having enormous finned heat sinks (in fact they ran so hot, the black anodising of the fins had bleached in colour).

But then, in the late '60s to mid '70s, Class A amplifiers were the only way to achieve very low distortion, and when used with Quad electrostatic speakers it was a "marriage made in heaven".

[Mikeandvan]

You still in Brighton?

Look for a place doing pro audio or car audio, they'll probably repair it although you'll likely have a wait.

Car audio? I don't think so!

[Mikeandvan]

Your amp is pure Class A (as are all Sugden amps) and thus run hot. The theoretical efficiency of Class A amplifiers is 50%, but in practice it can be less.

Your amp provides a maximum of 23W, which means that at least 23W is dissipated as heat, and of the available power that is not dissipated in the speaker as sound, is dissipated as heat. So if the amp is 'idling' with no acoustic output, it is dissipating 46W of heat per channel; or nearly 100W in total!

I have used a couple of Class A amplifiers having an audio outputs of 12.5W and 25W per channel and they all ran hot, with the result that the higher powered version failed twice with time, despite it having enormous finned heat sinks (in fact they ran so hot, the black anodising of the fins had bleached in colour).

But then, in the late '60s to mid '70s, Class A amplifiers were the only way to achieve very low distortion, and when used with Quad electrostatic speakers it was a "marriage made in heaven".

Thanks Barry, that explains why my amp has died, left it idling alot, getting too lazy to change records lately.

[Pigmy Pony]

Just had a quick google, and I see quite a few audio repairers in and around Brighton. Including an Audio T - I know their Preston branch did repairs before they upped sticks.

[Macca]

Car audio? I don't think so!

They're more likely have a technician who does repairs. An amp for the car is still just an amp.

[Swann36]

My 2 peneth contact Sugden getting them to fix it and check it all over plus suggest how to avoid repeating the problem would seem a good way forward, I’ve no personal experience but I’ve not read a bad word on their service and rather the opposite that they seem really helpful.. just a thought

[Mikeandvan]

Just had a quick google, and I see quite a few audio repairers in and around Brighton. Including an Audio T - I know their Preston branch did repairs before they upped sticks.

I can't see that Audio T offer a repair service, but I might give them a ring, they're quite friendly in there.

[Mikeandvan]

My 2 peneth contact Sugden getting them to fix it and check it all over plus suggest how to avoid repeating the problem would seem a good way forward, I’ve no personal experience but I’ve not read a bad word on their service and rather the opposite that they seem really helpful.. just a thought

Long waiting list I think

[Mikeandvan]

Audio T advised take it to a dealer that sells Sugden

[Macca]

Long waiting list I think

If so that suggests it may be best to get an amp that doesn't slowly cook itself to death?

There's not been any sonic advantage to class A since at least the early 1980s.

[Swann36]

Ouch .. but worth a phone call in case they have an emergency repair spot ? one can but ask

[Mikeandvan]

If so that suggests it may be best to get an amp that doesn't slowly cook itself to death?

There's not been any sonic advantage to class A since at least the early 1980s.

Oh I don't get involved in audio politics, I just listen with my ears, and this Suggie is the biznezz

[Mikeandvan]

Discovered a few local places, one in Hove, but one review said he replaced a CD player pulley with a bog standard elastic band, so may be not that one. I reckon this place looks legit
https://www.hear-audio.co.uk/

[Barry]

Hear Audio look promising - certainly the list of manufacturer's names is encouraging (but is so comprehensive, it looks a little suspicious to a cynic like me!).

By all means give them a call and discuss the problem with your amp.

Good luck.

[Mikeandvan]

Listening tonight through my headphones which of course plug into the suggie through the tape out and there;s a loud buzz.

[Mikeandvan]

OK, I'm using my brain now, I've plugged the headphone amp into the slee phono stage and the buzz persists!

[Nigel]

Surely a place the size of Brighton has a tech that can fix it? Maybe speak to one of the hi-fi shops and enquire if they can recommend anyone? Good luck.

[CageyH]

OK, I'm using my brain now, I've plugged the headphone amp into the slee phono stage and the buzz persists!

Is the amp still in the loop?
Piecemeal information makes it difficult to help.

[Pigmy Pony]

Is the amp still in the loop?
Piecemeal information makes it difficult to help.

Yeah I'm getting a bit confused too - what's with the buzz? I thought the issue was with the Sugden not switching on and blowing fuses :scratch:

[Mikeandvan]

Don't know what's happening here, the buzz has gone now after I switched cables around a bit, fuck knows what's happening. The slee is ok, the suggie keeps blowing fuses though, what a pita

[Mikeandvan]

FUck all in Brighton, not that one can see on Google anyway. Managed to find somewhere in WOrthing 10 miles down the road, 30 mins drive.

[Mikeandvan]

SHit, they got £150 minimum fee, may be not.

[Mikeandvan]

would the suggie fuse blow because I got no cdp connected, just the phono stage, and no earth on the technics as just standard rca cables used, how would I put an earth on teh technics, as there is an earth cable there

[Ali Tait]

No.

[Pigmy Pony]

I would expect there to be twin rca plus earth lead from the Technics to the phono stage, then just twin rca from there to Sugden. What part of this is missing from your set up?

[CageyH]

What phono stage do you have?
I have pretty much every Graham Slee stage currently available, so I can check the user manual.

I also assume that you have fitted the correct type of fuse?
Have a look here - https://www.avforums.com/threads/sugden-masterclass-integrated-blowing-fuses.737694/

Give Sugden a call. They may be able to help you on the phone.

[Macca]

Probably a transistor gone bad.

For £150 there's loads of amps just as good on ebay.

Probably get more than that for the Sugden selling it spares or repairs.

[Mikeandvan]

I would expect there to be twin rca plus earth lead from the Technics to the phono stage, then just twin rca from there to Sugden. What part of this is missing from your set up?

Earth lead, was wondering what that extra cable was in the technics box. :lol:

[Mikeandvan]

Probably a transistor gone bad.

For £150 there's loads of amps just as good on ebay.

Probably get more than that for the Sugden selling it spares or repairs.

They're 2400 notes new!! Cost me 1200 about 2 yrs ago, and is the best amp I've had.

[Mikeandvan]

What phono stage do you have?
I have pretty much every Graham Slee stage currently available, so I can check the user manual.

I also assume that you have fitted the correct type of fuse?
Have a look here - https://www.avforums.com/threads/sugden-masterclass-integrated-blowing-fuses.737694/

Give Sugden a call. They may be able to help you on the phone.

Yes thanks, I took the fuse to the shop as I couldn't read the bloody thing, 1.6A. I have a slee era gold V.

[Macca]

They're 2400 notes new!! Cost me 1200 about 2 yrs ago, and is the best amp I've had.

Three grand I think?

I don't see where the value is. Low power, runs hot, power supply is a bit weak (30W into 8 ohm, only 40 into 4 ohm). I'd rather have a Denon or a JVC. You could get a top of the line used one for £1200.

[CageyH]

Yes thanks, I took the fuse to the shop as I couldn't read the bloody thing, 1.6A. I have a slee era gold V.

Slow blow?

[Mikeandvan]

Slow blow?

no instant

[Mikeandvan]

Three grand I think?

I don't see where the value is. Low power, runs hot, power supply is a bit weak (30W into 8 ohm, only 40 into 4 ohm). I'd rather have a Denon or a JVC. You could get a top of the line used one for £1200.

possibly, my hifi choices are a bit scatter gun

[Sherwood]

Have you tried a completely new and proven set of interconnects? With the buzzing and the blown fuses I wonder if it is as simple as a faulty (shorted) interconnect.

Also, are you using the correctly rated fuses?

[Sherwood]

Three grand I think?

I don't see where the value is. Low power, runs hot, power supply is a bit weak (30W into 8 ohm, only 40 into 4 ohm). I'd rather have a Denon or a JVC. You could get a top of the line used one for £1200.

Class A has its weaknesses but properly implemented it is totally seductive.

[CageyH]

no instant

I believe that it needs a slow blow. Phone Sugden and ask.

[Lawrence001]

Maybe it had the wrong one in when you bought it so you've replaced it with the wrong one. Is there a service manual available online?

Sent from my PCT-L29 using Tapatalk

[CageyH]

If you look at the thread I linked to earlier, someone else had a problem with a Sugden due to the fuse blowing.

It needs to be slow blow to cope with the inrush current of the toroidal Transformer.

[Barry]

Regarding the fuses in the Sugden A21se Signature, see my post #9 (supra).

[Ali Tait]

Do you know what your mains voltage sits at?

[CageyH]

Regarding the fuses in the Sugden A21se Signature, see my post #9 (supra).

The problem is that I believe that the incorrect type of fuse has been fitted, even if it is the correct rating. It does not give the spec in the user manual I found online. A quick blow is not the best for a toroidal traffo.

A quick call to Sugden will find out what is the correct fuse, and they can also answer the service turn around time.

Two birds, one stone.

[Barry]

If Mike has bought the A21se Signature new, then the correct fuse would have been fitted, and a spare replacement of the same type and rating is contained in the fuse holder underneath the IEC mains connector socket.

I agree, Sugden's reference to it in the operating manual is not particularly helpful - I assume it is because Sugden offer two versions: one for the European Market (230V), and one for the US market (115V).

A US user (writing on another forum) had said he had contacted Sugden enquiring as to the best fuse to fit. The response was to fit a slow blow fuse of either 4A or 4.5A rating. From this I would suggest Mike tries a slow blow 2A fuse, which will be marked as T2A.

[Mikeandvan]

If Mike has bought the A21se Signature new, then the correct fuse would have been fitted, and a spare replacement of the same type and rating is contained in the fuse holder underneath the IEC mains connector socket.

I agree, Sugden's reference to it in the operating manual is not particularly helpful - I assume it is because Sugden offer two versions: one for the European Market (230V), and one for the US market (115V).

A US user (writing on another forum) had said he had contacted Sugden enquiring as to the best fuse to fit. The response was to fit a slow blow fuse of either 4A or 4.5A rating. From this I would suggest Mike tries a slow blow 2A fuse, which will be marked as T2A.

Thanks Barry, there was indeed a spare fuse in the place you mentioned, I fitted that and it blew, it was 1.6A, so bought some more fuses. 1.6A, they blew too. As you and others have said I'll just phone Sugden monday and ask them, just tried them now, but no answer.

[Mikeandvan]

The model I have btw is A21I-s, it has the mc/mm phono stage fitted.

[Barry]

What type and rating fuse was fitted underneath the mains connector socket Mike?

[Mikeandvan]

What type and rating fuse was fitted underneath the mains connector socket Mike?

glass fuse, 1.6A

[Barry]

Is there anything written on one of the end caps?

[Mikeandvan]

Is there anything written on one of the end caps?

yeh but it's too small for me to read:lol:

[Barry]

What you need is a "slow blow" fuse of 2A rating. These are usually marked on the end cap as T2A or sometimes T2A240V. Failing that slow blow fuses can sometimes be identified by looking at the actual wire inside the glass tube. The most obvious sign is a small metallic lump near the centre of the wire.

[Barry]

yeh but it's too small for me to read:lol:

Can you make out a "T" in the printing?

[Mikeandvan]

Can you make out a "T" in the printing?

no idea, need a magnifying glass, meanwhile glad i got this headphone amp

[Barry]

The fuse you can't read, has it blown? And was there no spare in the fuse holder, or has that blown as well?

[Firebottle]

Keep up Barry, there was a spare 1.6A and that has blown as well.

I guess there is a real fault, first place I would look are the output transistors, then the power supply.

[Barry]

If the mains fuse had blown, how was the preamp able to work? Mike says he is using the tape out sockets to power his headphones.

[Mikeandvan]

If the mains fuse had blown, how was the preamp able to work? Mike says he is using the tape out sockets to power his headphones.

No the headphones connect to a graham slee headphone amp, which connects to the suggie, it does work, but obviously its turned off (the suggie)

[Barry]

OK, so if I have got this right:

(1) the amplifier was not new and was fitted with a 1.6A mains fuse and a spare, neither of which is known as to its type.Both of these fuses have blown.

(2) replacement 1.6A fuses (again of uncertain type), when fitted continue to blow.

(3) the four internal 2.5A fast blow supply rail fuses are intact.

So, the first step is to ensure a 1.6A slow blow mains
fuse is fitted.
If this fuse blows, then the problem lies with the output stage of either channel, or both of them, or with the power supply.

The fact that the 2.5A fast blow supply rail fuses remain intact, suggests the problem is with the power supply, including the transformer (though if an incorrect fast blow mains fuse had been fitted the inrush current might have caused it to blow before the 2.5A fast blow supply rails fuses had a chance to blow if the problem was with the output stages.)

Reading around on other fora, there are separate secondary windings on the transformer for each channel, and separate bridge rectifiers (and presumably separate smoothing capacitors). Reports of these bridge rectifiers failing have been made.

Without someone actually examining the amplifier, no further progress, or speculation can be made.

[Mikeandvan]

OK, so if I have got this right:

(1) the amplifier was not new and was fitted with a 1.6A mains fuse and a spare, neither of which is known as to its type.Both of these fuses have blown.

(2) replacement 1.6A fuses (again of uncertain type), when fitted continue to blow.

(3) the four internal 2.5A fast blow supply rail fuses are intact.

So, the first step is to ensure a 1.6A slow blow mains
fuse is fitted.
If this fuse blows, then the problem lies with the output stage of either channel, or both of them, or with the power supply.

The fact that the 2.5A fast blow supply rail fuses remain intact, suggests the problem is with the power supply, including the transformer (though if an incorrect fast blow mains fuse had been fitted the inrush current might have caused it to blow before the 2.5A fast blow supply rails fuses had a chance to blow if the problem was with the output stages.)

Reading around on other fora, there are separate secondary windings on the transformer for each channel, and separate bridge rectifiers (and presumably separate smoothing capacitors). Reports of these bridge rectifiers failing have been made.

Without someone actually examining the amplifier, no further progress, or speculation can be made.

Thanks Barry, there's some nerd over in Worthing wants to charge £150 just to have a peek at it, can't find anyone local I trust anyway, might be a trip up to Surrey to see Steve, aparently the only hifi guru this side of the watford

[Sherwood]

I'm a bit puzzled as to why this (with my input) has reached 75 posts. Surely a call or email to Sugden could have resolved this very quickly.

:scratch::scratch:

[Barry]

I'm a bit puzzled as to why this (with my input) has reached 75 posts. Surely a call or email to Sugden could have resolved this very quickly.

:scratch::scratch:

Me too!

[Pigmy Pony]

I spoke to this bloke on the phone recently, with a view to having my Densen CD player fixed. IIRC he said there would be a £50 charge for assessing the player, which would then form part of any repair he carried out. Seems fair enough to me. He does have some good feedback, and is only about 20 miles from me, but then you would the hassle of boxing and posting your amp as you live in the wrong part of the country.

https://www.yell.com/biz/mike-powell-bolton-6393445/

[DiveDeepDog]

I'm a bit puzzled as to why this (with my input) has reached 75 posts. Surely a call or email to Sugden could have resolved this very quickly.

:scratch::scratch:

This, stop Feking about with fuses and send your £3k + amplifier back to its makers. You like the amp, Sugden have a great rep for their services and will warrant any work.

[Pigmy Pony]

This, stop Feking about with fuses and send your £3k + amplifier back to its makers. You like the amp, Sugden have a great rep for their services and will warrant any work.

Yes, this is what you should be doing Mike. And make do with your spare amp in the meantime. You don't have a spare amp? That's not normal, everyone has at least one spare knocking about :ner:

[Barry]

A spare amp? - I have about 10.

[Macca]

Only 10?

[Pigmy Pony]

I only have three spare, but they do all work.

[Macca]

I think all mine work. Maybe there's a Sanyo/Fisher I'm a bit doubtful about, but otherwise I gave away all the broken ones I think.

[Mikeandvan]

I'm a bit puzzled as to why this (with my input) has reached 75 posts. Surely a call or email to Sugden could have resolved this very quickly.

:scratch::scratch:

yeh i tried caling no answer

[Mikeandvan]

I'll try em again monday, guess I just wanted this to be an easy fix.

[Mikeandvan]

Meanwhile I need a second amp, was thinking arcam a65 or a38? prob the cheaper one or just get used to using my headphone amp for a month or two, might as well

[CageyH]

Have you tried a slow blow 1.6A fuse?

[Mikeandvan]

Have you tried a slow blow 1.6A fuse?

no I need to call sugden

[Pigmy Pony]

Meanwhile I need a second amp, was thinking arcam a65 or a38? prob the cheaper one or just get used to using my headphone amp for a month or two, might as well

One here.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166973343750?_skw=Arcam+A75&itmmeta=01J8XC98R4DMJWAGRB1VHPAKTB&hash=item26e0630806:g:NSUAAOSwL3Vm5rtg&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwHoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKkyMGn gS0AdVhUPCEDqEzgHbfOY8cBLqdmb%2FOocaWQ0WHga65yZGYi HO6p5lvEBp6IprPRh%2Bvd%2BKX02tSbpKY%2FKbARXWypTKcf xSxAHYzYnsRxmAPQATRzsDOyiqmrimUoAem9g77h5Si6koE69S L3XCbglE%2BjNVj7yqkiiM68ScZczy1CVcrTMJZHRJ%2Fw4jOj cwtMjenCjpkN%2BcQi%2BhSYRroT7YfJHexk8Fx4N%2FSr8wA% 3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5SMpazHZA

I was given a very similar looking A75 by my daughter a couple of years ago. It has been powered on 24/7 with no issues and drives mt recently-acquired MA R852MD speakers with ease. Always handy to have a back up Mike.

[Barry]

I have a Rega Mira 3 integrated amp you can have for £120. 60W/channel into 8Ohm, 90W into 4Ohm.

PM me if you are interested.

[Puffin]

Try an email to them

contact@sugdenaudio.com

[Mikeandvan]

Try an email to them

contact@sugdenaudio.com

i DID, no answer

[Mikeandvan]

So I made a mistake in my original email to Sugden, wrong email address! Just called them and they said the waiting list at the moment is not long at all, just 4 or 5 ahead of me, so fingers crossed it won't be too expensive.

[Mikeandvan]

One here.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166973343750?_skw=Arcam+A75&itmmeta=01J8XC98R4DMJWAGRB1VHPAKTB&hash=item26e0630806:g:NSUAAOSwL3Vm5rtg&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwHoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKkyMGn gS0AdVhUPCEDqEzgHbfOY8cBLqdmb%2FOocaWQ0WHga65yZGYi HO6p5lvEBp6IprPRh%2Bvd%2BKX02tSbpKY%2FKbARXWypTKcf xSxAHYzYnsRxmAPQATRzsDOyiqmrimUoAem9g77h5Si6koE69S L3XCbglE%2BjNVj7yqkiiM68ScZczy1CVcrTMJZHRJ%2Fw4jOj cwtMjenCjpkN%2BcQi%2BhSYRroT7YfJHexk8Fx4N%2FSr8wA% 3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5SMpazHZA

I was given a very similar looking A75 by my daughter a couple of years ago. It has been powered on 24/7 with no issues and drives mt recently-acquired MA R852MD speakers with ease. Always handy to have a back up Mike.

watched in my ebay, and he sent an offer of £116! Not sure whether I should just hold out with my headphone amp for now, thing is it's a bit of a pita to use as I'm always moving around!

[Bourney]

Buy a fosi v3 and just keep it as a spare for times like this. I'm sure Sugden will look after you Mike.

[Pigmy Pony]

watched in my ebay, and he sent an offer of £116! Not sure whether I should just hold out with my headphone amp for now, thing is it's a bit of a pita to use as I'm always moving around!

If it were me I would go with Barry's offer with the Rega. That would be superior to the Arcam I think. But in any case a spare amp is a must-have.

[Mikeandvan]

I'm actually gonna try and get use to my headphone amp as its underused and it wasn't cheap, but Barry's offer was a good one, I had a Mira once but it didn't last long in my system, found it underwhelming, the brio is livelier. The suggie makes a good halfway house

[Pigmy Pony]

I'm actually gonna try and get use to my headphone amp as its underused and it wasn't cheap, but Barry's offer was a good one, I had a Mira once but it didn't last long in my system, found it underwhelming, the brio is livelier. The suggie makes a good halfway house

:thumbsup:

[Mikeandvan]

Didn't wanna start a whole new thread, but since I started serious headphone listening again (after about a decade), I find myself wondering, does it matter if you wear them the wrong way around? Cos with these hd650s you can hardly see the bloody L or R on either side. the old HD600s usefully had the letters red, but I suppose some penny pincher had a great idea..........

[CageyH]

The 650s are shaped so that you should put them on the right way round, naturally.

[Pigmy Pony]

Oh and there's more...

https://i0.wp.com/www.thechurchpage.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Jimmy-Cricket-photo.jpg?fit=640%2C742&ssl=1

[Mikeandvan]

Oh and there's more...

https://i0.wp.com/www.thechurchpage.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Jimmy-Cricket-photo.jpg?fit=640%2C742&ssl=1

lol, I need reading glasses though to see the R or L on these cans!

[Macca]

lol, I need reading glasses though to see the R or L on these cans!

They're boots, not cans...

[Pigmy Pony]

lol, I need reading glasses though to see the R or L on these cans!

Be sure to put the glasses on the right way round, the lenses might be different to each other :)

[Mikeandvan]

The 650s are shaped so that you should put them on the right way round, naturally.

Naturally I take it you've never owned a pair.

[Mikeandvan]

Noticed no one can actually answered the question, so I guess it matters not.

[Mikeandvan]

Actually the cans feel pretty similar wrong way or left way

[CageyH]

Naturally I take it you've never owned a pair.

Naturally, I have a pair, hence the comment, but with an attitude like that, I will let you figure it out yourself.

:rolleyes:

[Barry]

It was a daft question from the start. All of my Sony headphones can be worn either way, whereas my Koss headphones are only comfortable when worn in the correct way.

As far as the presentation is concerned, unless you only listen to classical orchestral music, it makes little or no difference.

[Mikeandvan]

Naturally, I have a pair, hence the comment, but with an attitude like that, I will let you figure it out yourself.

:rolleyes:

Sorry bud, didn't mean to offend, but your comment made sense, they do indeed only feel right when on the right can is aligned with the right ear.:lol:

[Mikeandvan]

It was a daft question from the start. All of my Sony headphones can be worn either way, whereas my Koss headphones are only comfortable when worn in the correct way.

As far as the presentation is concerned, unless you only listen to classical orchestral music, it makes little or no difference.

True, I always had them on right, guess I was just a bit miffed that Sennheiser wanted to save a miniscule amount of money on not painting the R red as in days of old (teh 90s_

[Mikeandvan]

Separate thread may be, but headphone listening is pretty good no? Blasting out drummond bass now and neighbours not bovverred

[Lawrence001]

Actually the cans feel pretty similar wrong way or left wayThe 600/650 have angled oval cups so they point forward at the bottom. This is how I know which way to wear them when I pick them up. If you wear them the wrong way round they would feel slightly odd.

The red/black plugs in the older models were needed as the cups were round then.


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[Macca]

Separate thread may be, but headphone listening is pretty good no?

No, I can't stand the things. :D

[Pigmy Pony]

They give a very detailed sound and pretty dramatic in-head stereo, but to me not natural. I want to hear the music coming through the air towards me, and when I turn up the wick feel it too. I've used my headphones maybe ten times in the last 12 years, and now the foam ear cups have disintegrated while waiting for their next use.

[Mikeandvan]

They give a very detailed sound and pretty dramatic in-head stereo, but to me not natural. I want to hear the music coming through the air towards me, and when I turn up the wick feel it too. I've used my headphones maybe ten times in the last 12 years, and now the foam ear cups have disintegrated while waiting for their next use.

I suppose it's an 'if needs must' thing then.

[Lawrence001]

Some people do prefer the closeness of the sound of headphones and the detail retrieval it's a matter of preference rather than objectively better or worse.

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[Ali Tait]

Have some Stax which are really good. Still prefer the real thing but they do for when I can't make noise.

[Pigmy Pony]

I suppose it's an 'if needs must' thing then.

Well for me that would be a yes, but really it's a case of if it sounds good to you, it is :) We're all different.

[Pigmy Pony]

There is a volume level below which I wouldn't go. If I can't play at the level I want I just watch telly or read a book instead.

[Mikeandvan]

There is a volume level below which I wouldn't go. If I can't play at the level I want I just watch telly or read a book instead.

Yeh I get that, interestingly since I've been forced to enjoy this new headphone set up, I find myself revisiting my old techno records, for obvious reasons.

[Mikeandvan]

Some people do prefer the closeness of the sound of headphones and the detail retrieval it's a matter of preference rather than objectively better or worse.

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Yes I'm noticing parts of tracks for the first time. It's kinda cool, but overall still prefer speakers, but as Pigmy says if you can't listen at a decent volume what's the point.

[AJSki2fly]

Have some Stax which are really good. Still prefer the real thing but they do for when I can't make noise.

:lol: I think you need to reword that, nothing out of any HiFi system is the 'real thing':D, it is purely an attempt at simulating what has been put on the recording, and even the recording may not actually be the same as what the musicians played sudio or live, so whether it is from and cans or speakers it is not going to be the 'real thing'. Although I would be the first to admit that I like to think that the noise my system makes is close to the real thing.:eyebrows::rfl:

[Ali Tait]

I meant listening to speakers as opposed to cans lol.

[CageyH]

But when you see bands live, they use speakers (in à PA setup).

[Macca]

But when you see bands live, they use speakers (in à PA setup).

And recordings are mixed and mastered with speakers, lots of different ones.

Best you can hope is to get in the ballpark of what the mastering engineer heard. Even with acoustic instruments, how was the piano recorded? Close to, at a distance... what's the FR of the mic? - and then there's post production and everything done there.

There can never be a defined accuracy to 'real instruments.' The can sound 'real' on some set ups, but that could just be artifice. We can never know.

[Barry]

Yes - I agree with both Adrian and Martin. The best we can hope for is to hear what the recording engineer heard.

But we all hear differently, and find certain aspects of music reproduction more important than others - you can't have it all. The best one can do is to assemble a system that satisfies those aspects that are important to you.

There is no audio system in the world that creates a complete and perfect facsimile of what the recording engineer heard. The late Alistair Robertson-Aikman, founder of SME, had a world class audio system, but when asked what he thought of it replied "it's OK", no more no less.

There is no need for hand wringing: just assemble a system that gives you joy and pleasure, and don't worry about what anyone else thinks of it.

[Lawrence001]

Wise words Barry. I think some in the hobby spend a lifetime trying to attain something that is unattainable.

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[Puffin]

Sometimes I want subtlety and finesse and others I want to be blasted with all that the system can give, or as much as I can take for a given time. Is it true to the original or whatever....I don't care as long as it gives me the fix I want.

[Pigmy Pony]

Sometimes I want subtlety and finesse and others I want to be blasted with all that the system can give, or as much as I can take for a given time. Is it true to the original or whatever....I don't care as long as it gives me the fix I want.

Yes that is just how it is for me. Striving for fidelity to 'the original' (whatever that may be) is ultimately futile imo. Be easier to paint sand.

[Mikeandvan]

'How I learned to stop worrying and just enjoy my hifi'

[Barry]

Sometimes I want subtlety and finesse and others I want to be blasted with all that the system can give, or as much as I can take for a given time. Is it true to the original or whatever....I don't care as long as it gives me the fix I want.

By "blasted", do you mean played at very a high volume level? If so I don't understand, all music should be played at an appropriate level: rock played too quietly or folk music played too loud just sounds wrong.

[Lawrence001]

Should be but domestic factors like children and neighbours may prevent you doing that.

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[Pigmy Pony]

Should be but domestic factors like children and neighbours may prevent you doing that.

Sent from my PCT-L29 using Tapatalk

Yeah you might have to pick your moments when it comes to silly-loud. For me it is when Anita has left the house for a bit, and I'm fortunate that my neighbours aren't an issue, my stereo wouldn't go loud enough to bother them.

[beadlesabout]

My A21 Signature developed a fault in the first year through normal use.

I was OK with it initially as it’s a British made amplifier steeped in history and these things can happen.

I was not OK with it taking 7 months(!!) for the service department to turn it around and when it came back in good health I quickly shifted it on. Not worth the hassle, sadly.

At the time (and bear in mind this was well past COVID) my dealer said the wait list for new amps was also around 6 months.

Something must be seriously wrong with management or finances and I do hope it’s not a sign that they’re on their way out.

[Puffin]

By "blasted", do you mean played at very a high volume level? If so I don't understand, all music should be played at an appropriate level: rock played too quietly or folk music played too loud just sounds wrong.

Ok, played at a volume higher than I would normally use for what in reality are short periods. Roughly 12 years ago I converted half of our large double garage into my man cave with 2 lots of sound insulation and acoustic grade plaster board. This is well away from the house and neighbours and sound leakage is minimal. I count myself very lucky to have this. In the main I listen at "normal" levels as I value my hearing. I had mild Tinitus for years and then got Covid in 2021 and it ramped right up so that I have it 24/7. I had a Boots hearing test a few months ago and was surprised to be told that my hearing is pretty good with just a slight reduction in HF in my right ear.

Music that is too loud for long periods is not for me but at times I like to go a bit wild :gig:

[Pieoftheday]

Did the amp get repaired?

[Sherwood]

My A21 Signature developed a fault in the first year through normal use.

I was OK with it initially as it’s a British made amplifier steeped in history and these things can happen.

I was not OK with it taking 7 months(!!) for the service department to turn it around and when it came back in good health I quickly shifted it on. Not worth the hassle, sadly.

At the time (and bear in mind this was well past COVID) my dealer said the wait list for new amps was also around 6 months.

Something must be seriously wrong with management or finances and I do hope it’s not a sign that they’re on their way out.

A company with a 6 month waiting list is unlikely to be struggling to stay in business. Truth is that there are some companies that prefer to keep operations at levels that allow them to manage quality. This is true of Decware whose waiting lists for products can be measured in years. Often when companies expand beyond a particular size, quality suffers. The fact that Sugden have a service department that can repair even vintage products is to be commended and somewhat rare these days. It is to be expected that small companies may be inundated with repairs backlogs from time to time but I believe that the turnaround time is usually weeks rather than months.

[Mikeandvan]

My A21 Signature developed a fault in the first year through normal use.

I was OK with it initially as it’s a British made amplifier steeped in history and these things can happen.

I was not OK with it taking 7 months(!!) for the service department to turn it around and when it came back in good health I quickly shifted it on. Not worth the hassle, sadly.

At the time (and bear in mind this was well past COVID) my dealer said the wait list for new amps was also around 6 months.

Something must be seriously wrong with management or finances and I do hope it’s not a sign that they’re on their way out.

Apparently there's only '3 or 4' ahead of me in the queue, but that was 2 weeks ago, I take it their repairs dep. consists of 1 old guy or something??

[Lawrence001]

I'd rather have one old guy who takes his time and does the repair properly.

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[Mikeandvan]

I'd rather have one old guy who takes his time and does the repair properly.

Sent from my HEY2-W09 using Tapatalk

Sounds like you need a lover with an easy touch.

[Lawrence001]

As Swiss Toni might say, Repairing a faulty amplifier is very much like making love to a beautiful woman...

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[Macca]

As Swiss Toni might say, Repairing a faulty amplifier is very much like making love to a beautiful woman...


lol

[Mikeandvan]

Suggies gone off to Steve today, see what he diagnoses

[Alex_UK]

Fingers crossed for you Mike.

[Mikeandvan]

Headphone listening much easier now I got this Grado 4.5M extension cable, can even make my dinner with headphones connected. You have to be careful not to step on it though.
EDIT - I keep stepping on this pissing cable

[Mikeandvan]

Steve says that one of the bridge rectifiers has shorted on the Suggie, and that replacing it should hopefully fix it.

[Barry]

Steve says that one of the bridge rectifiers has shorted on the Suggie, and that replacing it should hopefully fix it.

What I predicted in post no. 10! This is now post no. 148! :doh:

[Macca]

What I predicted in post no. 10! This is now post no. 148! :doh:

In fairness it could have been a number of things until it actually got looked at. But good spot nonetheless.

[Mikeandvan]

What I predicted in post no. 10! This is now post no. 148! :doh:

On the plus side I don't have to wait for Sugden repairs shop, and I've been forced to get to know my headphone amp, which is nice.

[Mikeandvan]

Suggies back and sounding good.it seems to be running hotter than it did though, the fins are almost too not to touch for more than a few seconds anyway.

[Mikeandvan]

I just put my Totems on top of my wharfedale stands, yeh i,m lazy, sounds ok though, the lintons were just too damn boomy, sick of it! Plus I been using headphoens alot lately and I like it now i got the exensipoms cord!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54121595081_80719880f8_c.jpg

[Macca]

That boom from the Lintons I am almost certain is the Sugden amp not being up to the job,

Your room looks a reasonable size (unless the photos are deceptive?) and the speakers are not bass monsters by any stretch, they roll of from 60Hz down.

The Linton aren't a tough load but the Sugden is a design from the distant past with a fairly weak power supply because in those days speakers needed voltage not current and it just wasn't necessary for amplifiers to be better in that regard.

You'd solve that booming problem with a more robust amplifier I think. Also suspect it isn't really up to driving those Totems properly either.

[Mikeandvan]

That boom from the Lintons I am almost certain is the Sugden amp not being up to the job,

Your room looks a reasonable size (unless the photos are deceptive?) and the speakers are not bass monsters by any stretch, they roll of from 60Hz down.

The Linton aren't a tough load but the Sugden is a design from the distant past with a fairly weak power supply because in those days speakers needed voltage not current and it just wasn't necessary for amplifiers to be better in that regard.

You'd solve that booming problem with a more robust amplifier I think. Also suspect it isn't really up to driving those Totems properly either.

Yes on further listening the Totems aren't as good as the Lintons with the SUgden, I didn't realise they needed a bigger amp to get them singing. I really can't put the Lintons back now though that I've seen how much more spacious my lounge is with these tiny 'matchstick' speakers! So think I will try a more powerful amp. Thanks for pointing that out, as usual my hifi knowledge is somewhat lacking, small speakers, small amp I thought..............I can't find any info on the Sttafs (the actual model of Totem speakers I have, not the arro which are even smaller i beleive!), in teh UK, seems all teh owners are Yanks. So what power amp should I go for to be on the safe side? Needs to be integrated with remote.

[Macca]

Yes on further listening the Totems aren't as good as the Lintons with the SUgden, I didn't realise they needed a bigger amp to get them singing. I really can't put the Lintons back now though that I've seen how much more spacious my lounge is with these tiny 'matchstick' speakers! So think I will try a more powerful amp. Thanks for pointing that out, as usual my hifi knowledge is somewhat lacking, small speakers, small amp I thought..............I can't find any info on the Sttafs (the actual model of Totem speakers I have, not the arro which are even smaller i beleive!), in teh UK, seems all teh owners are Yanks. So what power amp should I go for to be on the safe side? Needs to be integrated with remote.

I'd sell the Totems and keep the Lintons! It's not like the Lintons are huge and what are you going to do with that bit of extra space anyway?

I appreciate it might just be a visual thing rather than practical, but you're going from a known good speaker to one from a brand that I don't really rate at all.

With the right amp I think you'd might want to keep the Lintons and make the sacrifice in the aesthetics, so I wouldn't get rid of them until you try that.

Like you say there's no hard data for the Staffs on the internet which doesn't help.

What's your budget for an amp? New or used?

[CageyH]

Not being funny, but you could not have looked very well:

https://totemacoustic.com/pdf/spec_sheets/legacy/Totem_SpecSheet_Sttaf.pdf

[Macca]

Not being funny, but you could not have looked very well:

https://totemacoustic.com/pdf/spec_sheets/legacy/Totem_SpecSheet_Sttaf.pdf

Not exactly a wealth of information though is it? 'Break in time' - lol.

Two reviews here, the writer of the second one couldn't get a good result regardless of positioning

https://positive-feedback.com/Issue10/totemstaff.htm

Does suggest they are an easy load though so maybe the Sugden is up to it and they're just not a good speaker?

[CageyH]

Wasn’t aimed at you Martin. Our posts crossed.

What HiFi suggest an Elex-R - https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/wharfedale-linton

[CageyH]

Speakers are supposed to be a bit relaxed, so you need an amp with a bit of liveliness.
So, solid state is certainly the way to go, and apparently they sound better with the grilles on.

[CageyH]

Another review - https://www.pursuitperfectsystem.com/wharfedale-linton-heritage-hifi-speakers-review/

[Pigmy Pony]

There's an Elex-R on ebay at the mo which you could get for about £500.

I see the Lintons have two ports at the back, which aren't going to be ideal for siting close to walls - I assume you've tried bunging them to try and tweak the bass output, if not it would be worth experimenting. No doubt bass extension will be curtailed a bit, but combined with a gutsier amp like the Rega you might find the sound heading towards what you're after.

[Macca]

There's an Elex-R on ebay at the mo which you could get for about £500.

I see the Lintons have two ports at the back, which aren't going to be ideal for siting close to walls - I assume you've tried bunging them to try and tweak the bass output, if not it would be worth experimenting. No doubt bass extension will be curtailed a bit, but combined with a gutsier amp like the Rega you might find the sound heading towards what you're after.

Good shout that - I'd expect an Elex to do the job right and it has remote control.

It's a bit of a misconception that you can't put rear ported speakers close to a wall. As long as they're more than 6 inches away and not jammed right up against it, it won't make a difference. The low frequencies from the port don't 'bounce' off the wall like we might intuitively think.

Linton's not a bassy loudspeaker anyway - according to the spec, the Totems actually go lower than them which is why I think the booming issue isn't a room-speaker problem.

[Pigmy Pony]

Good shout that - I'd expect an Elex to do the job right and it has remote control.

It's a bit of a misconception that you can't put rear ported speakers close to a wall. As long as they're more than 6 inches away and not jammed right up against it, it won't make a difference. The low frequencies from the port don't 'bounce' off the wall like we might intuitively think.

Linton's not a bassy loudspeaker anyway - according to the spec, the Totems actually go lower than them which is why I think the booming issue isn't a room-speaker problem.

Yes this rear-firing thing is just something I've read about in the past, but have no personal experience of. Though Mike has often reported a 'boominess' when using the Lintons, so I thought it would be worth a shot. Also my thinking was that an amp with a bit more balls might control the speakers' bass better too.

[Mikeandvan]

The fact is that I can rarely listen to the Wharfedales at any appreciable volume because of this pissing flat I'm in, you can literally hear the people upstairs talking, so I listen a fair bit more on headphones now anyway. And when I moved the Lintons out to demo the Sttafs I just loved how it all looked. You can position them close to rear wall, with the Lintons that wasn't possible, could also be an amp related problem, but I don;t think so after having read quite a few user reviews. So I'm going to but a more powerful amp and try to make the Sttafs work, and sell on the Lintons, I can't keep them even for a short while because with the boxes they take up so much bloody room. Besides if I want them back they#re not expensive, I bought them on interest free credit, only about £100 a month.
But I think these Sttafs or similarly sized speakers are the way to go for me now as I'm tired of the hifi system dominating the room, not that I want to go full all in one system!
So please recommendations for a nice beefy amp, I was thinking old Jap int. from the 90s, something under £500 would be good, but don't mind paying a bit more for something that looks good too, like one of those champagne Sony beauts. Also open to something newer to minimise risk of time/wear related faults.

[Pigmy Pony]

Good shout that - I'd expect an Elex to do the job right and it has remote control.

It's a bit of a misconception that you can't put rear ported speakers close to a wall. As long as they're more than 6 inches away and not jammed right up against it, it won't make a difference. The low frequencies from the port don't 'bounce' off the wall like we might intuitively think.

Linton's not a bassy loudspeaker anyway - according to the spec, the Totems actually go lower than them which is why I think the booming issue isn't a room-speaker problem.

Just noticed that last bit Mart, are you sure about that? I'm doubting that bottom octave the Totems reach will be where the boominess lives, but likely to be a bit further up the range, within the reach of both the Totems and the Lintons. And that the Totems get away with it just by being a bit 'weedier' at that frequency.

Of course I have no data or experience to back this up, it's just a thought.

[Macca]

Just noticed that last bit Mart, are you sure about that? I'm doubting that bottom octave the Totems reach will be where the boominess lives, but likely to be a bit further up the range, within the reach of both the Totems and the Lintons. And that the Totems get away with it just by being a bit 'weedier' at that frequency.

Of course I have no data or experience to back this up, it's just a thought.

I'm basing that on the full suite of Klippel measurements of the Lintons on Erin's Audio Corner and the manufacturer spec for the Totems that Kevin linked to up thread. So no, I'm not sure, but if the quoted specs of the Totem are correct, then it is the case.

[Macca]

The fact is that I can rarely listen to the Wharfedales at any appreciable volume because of this pissing flat I'm in, you can literally hear the people upstairs talking, so I listen a fair bit more on headphones now anyway. And when I moved the Lintons out to demo the Sttafs I just loved how it all looked. You can position them close to rear wall, with the Lintons that wasn't possible, could also be an amp related problem, but I don;t think so after having read quite a few user reviews. So I'm going to but a more powerful amp and try to make the Sttafs work, and sell on the Lintons, I can't keep them even for a short while because with the boxes they take up so much bloody room. Besides if I want them back they#re not expensive, I bought them on interest free credit, only about £100 a month.
But I think these Sttafs or similarly sized speakers are the way to go for me now as I'm tired of the hifi system dominating the room, not that I want to go full all in one system!
So please recommendations for a nice beefy amp, I was thinking old Jap int. from the 90s, something under £500 would be good, but don't mind paying a bit more for something that looks good too, like one of those champagne Sony beauts. Also open to something newer to minimise risk of time/wear related faults.

I've got neighbours either side in an old terrace house, I try to limit listening to between 1200 and 2100 and I rarely crank it up but doesn't stop me if I feel like it, they've no recourse in law and I put up with their dog barking (one side) and bizarre hammering and banging at ten oclock at night (other side).

If they want total silence all the time then they need to work harder and buy or rent a detached house.:D

But if you want to sacrifice absolute sound quality for aesthetics that's a fair enough choice. I have a look for some Jap amps and come back.

[CageyH]

The requirement for a remote is going to limit your choice of ‘90s Jap integrated amps.

[Macca]

Silver/champagne all come with the remote control:

Denon PMA1500R https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/267027933421? bit over budget but will drive most speakers optimally.

Technics Pre- Power - proper vintage from 1980 but better than a lot of modern kit and you get a tuner too

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/126645133555?

Marantz PMA7200 - don't bother with the class A option it's a waste of time, but good build quality and tasty looks

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/375773802308?

Yamaha AX-1050 - Black finish but a powerhouse and reliable, with the remote

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135280494702?

[Pigmy Pony]

Bit of an MF fanboy here, so here's an alternative for you:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/116373535855?_skw=musical+fidelity+amplifier&itmmeta=01JC8FR2WHSRVAG67CW052V4PA&hash=item1b18673c6f:g:DjMAAOSwxFNnH6j6&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAABAHoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKlYyW% 2BvnZNJPu3b1%2BuuDARjIdoNWvuTCeuLn528b20jYxysRbxu4 pb9dik0wRVmJfJsI5jr%2FBGAu9nLE9mUBKi2LdBMPS%2FlpIC oglVgst4EN0Py4WaWGRq2Rj7fTymbIi5CLGFY3MDb6Rxjm%2Bf 7PkcoFFL3V9PEcbqtoWXnvJNoVReU%2F5fHwQ7fRO2Y8jOvYiY 2I3MutQrt%2B4V7qEayjXMhIzZxaMePYBeSfdFOkHB2YzjQDWe G2OitbA8wbEBC13g96ArdmC5xkKNJ38hw15FJsLWFDhVk8MeNs 9OlfOX7NQryd7yb20ZmxC4QYDh66xI%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6yu 4I_iZA

All the power you would ever need, and comes with remote, though I appreciate you might want something a bit newer. Seller's in Shoreham, which won't be a million miles from you. Maybe you could get to see/hear it before committing.

[CageyH]

250 wpc from the A5 into 8 ohms?
That should be enough.

[Bourney]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/167076578975?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=1TQgWhbBQfO&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=zmHeEMPtRlK&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[Mikeandvan]

Thanks all for those suggestions. I have no idea really what to get, but the Denon PMA 1500 looks amazing! I've seen one on Ebay for £370 with no remote, would one of those after market remotes work? I've got a Harmony one but it only works when it feels like it. Apart from that the Rega Elicit above is well within budget, I dunno, what difference do they all make?

[CageyH]

Check to see if you have Denon codings on the Harmony.

[CageyH]

As for the difference it will make, your Sugden is near the bottom of the power required to drive the speakers.
A more powerful amp should “grip” the drivers better, giving it better control.

As to which sounds better, I have no idea. I have never heard your speakers, or any of the amps suggested.

[Macca]

They'll all drive the Totem speakers no problem so what sound quality you hear will be defined by the speakers and your room.

Just choose one based on price, features and looks and enjoy the music.

[CageyH]

This looks interesting:

https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/xtz-class-a100-d3-amplifier-black.298030/

[Macca]

This looks interesting:

https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/xtz-class-a100-d3-amplifier-black.298030/

I have one. It is massive and it weighs a ton. Probably overkill for Mike's situation but it ticks all the boxes.

[Mikeandvan]

I'm trying to think of the good Sony models up to a 100W? Nothing too old though.

[Macca]

I'm trying to think of the good Sony models up to a 100W? Nothing too old though.

'Proper' Sony was over by the early 1990s really. There's the 770ES I suppose. One on ebay in silver:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135282094892?

Has the end cheeks so European version.

[Mikeandvan]

what changed after the early 90s?

[Macca]

what changed after the early 90s?

Japan's 'Lost Decade':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decades

Cost cutting started, the old ways of producing the absolute best as an engineering statement and as a gauntlet thrown down to the engineers at the other Japanese audio companies came to an end.

Added to which there was a global decline in a quality hi-fi being an aspirational thing to own.

[Macca]

Then:

https://i.ibb.co/fpYmB62/sony-es.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

Now:

https://i.ibb.co/MsYwmWb/SONY-AV.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

[CageyH]

Why stop at 100W with the replacement amplifier?

[Pigmy Pony]

Why stop at 100W with the replacement amplifier?

I suppose it goes to that old question "How many watts is enough?" Much better to have too many than not enough.

Puts me in mind of the time my brother sold his old B&W speakers and "budget" Marantz amp - when demo'ing the speakers he plumbed them into his new MF A3.2 amp, and was shocked at how much better his old speakers sounded with the extra welly up them - brought them to life, better faster bass etc. Almost made him regret flogging the speakers :doh:

[CageyH]

That is part of the reason I built my Modulus 686. 220W.
My speakers sound better with more watts.

[Macca]

Not just watts but current.

With some exceptions modern speakers don't offer the amp an easy load. As impedance drops, more voltage is demanded and that means more current needed. Ohm's Law.

The Sugden offers 30 watts into 8 ohm and 40 watts into 4 Ohm

An ideal amplifier would be 30 watts into 8 ohm, 60 into 4 ohm and 120 into 2 ohm.

You can't have an ideal amplifier but if you want it to drive any speaker then it needs to come close to that.

50 watts should be enough for most modern speakers as they tend to have high sensitivty. But if the amp can't maintain its voltage when impedance dips then it will clip - bad sound - and if it can't recover from clipping before it's asked to do that again, it clips all the time.

It's not an all or nothing thing either, think of it more as a sliding scale. Usually low impedance in high frequencies is not a problem as not much power is demanded in the high frequencies. But in the bass a lot of power is drawn.

Hence if the amp isn't up to the job, you get no bass, or weak bass, or booming bass and generally not a good sound.

[Mikeandvan]

Why stop at 100W with the replacement amplifier?

The specs you linked to suggest amps in range of 20-100W, but surely 100W is more than enough!!

[CageyH]

A bit more won’t hurt, if used sensibly.

[CageyH]

My speakers max (continuous) power handling is 120W.

This is what the manufacturer has to say:


Amplifier and Power Handling
Recommended Amplifier power : from 60 to 200 Watts (8 Ohms)
Power Handling : 120W

* The power handling of a speaker is the average continuous power that the speaker can accept without damaging the drivers. You can use an amplifier more powerful than the permissible speaker power by limiting the volume to 70% of the maximum capacity. Conversely, an amplifier that is too underpowered will clip and create distortion, which can also damage the speakers if it is used beyond its capacity.

My 220W power amp has never been turned up to max volume with my speakers, and my speakers are still working fine, even with 100W of additional power available. Normal listening, I am sure it does not even break a sweat.

[Pigmy Pony]

To use a motoring analogy, a car capable of 170mph will drive much nicer at 80 than something that tops out at 100mph.

[Mikeandvan]

Thanks to Steve, I got these pods off Ebay, less than a fiver, placed them between the Sttafs and some slate place mats I got from the local Robert Dyas for £8 for 4. It all produces a very stable and discrete base for the Sttafs, the sound seems to be better overall, but I'll have to replay some recordings tomorrow to confirm.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54133532823_dfe8814fea_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54133533433_399aeed387_c.jpg

[Pigmy Pony]

I like the slates, neat and discreet against the grey carpet :)

[Mikeandvan]

I like the slates, neat and discreet against the grey carpet :)

Yep, sometimes it pays to actually go shopping rather than search on the internet, because I would never have found these otherwise, they fit perfect and actually look really cool, the pods are the perfect size too.:)

[Barry]

There is a hotel restaurant in N. Wales we sometimes visit - the table place mats are of slate and look just like yours. :)

[brian2957]

Got a link to the pods on Ebay you put under the speakers please Mike.

[Gazjam]

Nice one.
Always worth experimenting with different types of feet and platforms for yer speakers, can make a noticeable difference.

Like a lot of this hifi stuff,
No one idea fits all?

Speaker type, what your floors made of, and a hundred other things… all matter.
Lots of good affordable (and free!) things you can do to improve the sound from your speakers.

[Mikeandvan]

Japan's 'Lost Decade':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decades

Cost cutting started, the old ways of producing the absolute best as an engineering statement and as a gauntlet thrown down to the engineers at the other Japanese audio companies came to an end.

Added to which there was a global decline in a quality hi-fi being an aspirational thing to own.

Then just like all the rest they moved production to their old enemies China, and now with the US, they're 'why are China so powerful'? ? ?

[Mikeandvan]

Got a link to the pods on Ebay you put under the speakers please Mike.

Here we go, £4 delivered! About the size of a £1 coin.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333392110022

[Mikeandvan]

What about this, only 50W though.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/395886840906?_skw=marantz+amplifier&itmmeta=01JCP4CC677AM2DRY06Q34QWE0&hash=item5c2cb1cc4a%3Ag%3AmzEAAOSwTUJnKeWe&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKl8aeF ua55zNeaNXzlCbO5o4y4dBQEwZvm%2FidHVGJdkKW%2FJ1w20o c9RYAZcwiT35I7zjWyLOdxahS9tnTK6wst7OApT5TPJHnOFOrG Mt1Knm2uuTR%2BB2sohoVVlp4HQYz61dq%2Fb3k55%2FNzwtCf alGm3dgkDaY01a2bW0D33VVXr52AHGczrX42%2Bafxbzj9vBe2 HqOHRaiCLVITWkZryB2BT3EhL28O5EEd%2Fd5z6jez85H0a02X 9Wkxvb5lp2fWZ1jezWDmO%2Bja5QIJWTrcLyaXhOG9MrCtkPqg uux31iLtvvA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR57DscTlZA&LH_Auction=1

[brian2957]

Thanks mate

[CageyH]

What about this, only 50W though.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/395886840906?_skw=marantz+amplifier&itmmeta=01JCP4CC677AM2DRY06Q34QWE0&hash=item5c2cb1cc4a%3Ag%3AmzEAAOSwTUJnKeWe&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKl8aeF ua55zNeaNXzlCbO5o4y4dBQEwZvm%2FidHVGJdkKW%2FJ1w20o c9RYAZcwiT35I7zjWyLOdxahS9tnTK6wst7OApT5TPJHnOFOrG Mt1Knm2uuTR%2BB2sohoVVlp4HQYz61dq%2Fb3k55%2FNzwtCf alGm3dgkDaY01a2bW0D33VVXr52AHGczrX42%2Bafxbzj9vBe2 HqOHRaiCLVITWkZryB2BT3EhL28O5EEd%2Fd5z6jez85H0a02X 9Wkxvb5lp2fWZ1jezWDmO%2Bja5QIJWTrcLyaXhOG9MrCtkPqg uux31iLtvvA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR57DscTlZA&LH_Auction=1

25W to 50W? I thought you were looking for something of about 100W.

[Mikeandvan]

25W to 50W? I thought you were looking for something of about 100W.

Not really, I mean its still a 100% jump so surely that would make a substantial difference.

[CageyH]

Well, if you are convinced, let your ears decide.
Personally, I would be looking at an amplifier at, or above, the top end rating, but it is your choice.

Is there nobody nearby who could bring a more powerful amp to your place for you to have a listen to, so you can make up your mind if a change is worth it?

When I needed to try a more powerful amp, a friend brought round a Benchmark AHB2. After that, I knew I needed more power.

[CageyH]

You also have a “pre out” on your amplifier, so you could add a power amp quite easily.

[Pigmy Pony]

I agree with Kevin on all points. More power isn't all about being able to play stuff louder imo, but about headroom, the amp's ability to take all the the speakers' demands in its stride. I feel sure it would give you faster, better controlled bass, which is what you seem to be short of with the Lintons.

[Macca]

You also have a “pre out” on your amplifier, so you could add a power amp quite easily.

Only then you can get into pre-power matching issues.

I didn't include that Marantz on the list I made even though I spotted it as it isn't really all that great. It would probably do about the same job as the Sugden.

IMV it's worth spending the extra on something that isn't going to wimp out when asked to reproduce a musical event that's a bit challenging.

[CageyH]

I was thinking that with the pre-out, if there was someone local with a suitable power amp, it could used to demo the effect extra watts can give. It opens up options.
At the end of the day, Mike may think it is not worth changing the Sugden, until next time it cooks itself.

[Macca]

I was thinking that with the pre-out, if there was someone local with a suitable power amp, it could used to demo the effect extra watts can give. It opens up options.


Right, I see what you mean.

[Lawrence001]

Not really, I mean its still a 100% jump so surely that would make a substantial difference.Do you know that doubling wattage is not doubling volume? I think you need 4x the power to double volume IIRC

Sent from my PCT-L29 using Tapatalk

[spm]

How about a Sony TA-F940R QS for £70 (£76.50 delivered). I like mine.

I find stuff from cashconverters to be hit and miss. I don't think they test stuff but you can send stuff back if it's faulty. 12 months warranty although I've not yet needed to test how good they are on claims.

https://www.cashconverters.co.uk/shop/music-tv--video/home-theatre-tvs--hifi-stereos/amplifiers/audio-equipment/046000115952

[Pieoftheday]

How about a Sony TA-F940R QS for £70 (£76.50 delivered). I like mine.

I find stuff from cashconverters to be hit and miss. I don't think they test stuff but you can send stuff back if it's faulty. 12 months warranty although I've not yet needed to test how good they are on claims.

https://www.cashconverters.co.uk/shop/music-tv--video/home-theatre-tvs--hifi-stereos/amplifiers/audio-equipment/046000115952
Most are asking upwards of£200 ont bay so could be a good buy, always regretted selling mine

[spm]

I'm quite tempted myself if Mike isn't interested as I have a silver one and everything else in the stand is black.

[Mikeandvan]

How about a Sony TA-F940R QS for £70 (£76.50 delivered). I like mine.

I find stuff from cashconverters to be hit and miss. I don't think they test stuff but you can send stuff back if it's faulty. 12 months warranty although I've not yet needed to test how good they are on claims.

https://www.cashconverters.co.uk/shop/music-tv--video/home-theatre-tvs--hifi-stereos/amplifiers/audio-equipment/046000115952

emmmmmm

[spm]

I see that the Sony has sold. Did you go for it Mike?

[Mikeandvan]

I see that the Sony has sold. Did you go for it Mike?

no!

[spm]

If it's in full working order someone got a bargain.

[Mikeandvan]

Well, I have just scored a Denon PMA 1500 off of Ebay for £250, so I'll lob this into the melee, and see what transpires!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135406873284

[Macca]

Looks tidy, put the good speakers on it!

[Mikeandvan]

Looks tidy, put the good speakers on it!

I'll try them with both sets of speakers of course. Just hope the amp performs well, being so old. I may get it serviced, or at least checked over.

[Mikeandvan]

Damn damn damn Ebay, the Denon is all fuzzy on left channel!!! I checked with the seller first, 'yes all good'. ffs

[mikeyb]

Damn damn damn Ebay, the Denon is all fuzzy on left channel!!! I checked with the seller first, 'yes all good'. ffsSend it back, don't fall into the trap of the seller asking you to fix it as he might refuse a return after that.

[Macca]

That's a shame.

[Mikeandvan]

Seller's saying he's out of the country until the new year.................Whatever, I started a return with ebay. Claimed it was all working fine, this really isn't the type of fault that would develop over a few days transit surely?

[Macca]

It's unlikely.

[Mikeandvan]

Guys accepted Ebay return, says his neighbour will accept it, yeh sure.........
Anyway, I'm rather put off now buying old Jap stuff, the volume controls always seem to go wonky, and they're not easy to fix. So it's back to no frills British for me, how about this Musical fidelity A300, 150W!!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186837348983?_skw=musical+fidelity+amplifier&itmmeta=01JF5YV19JYTKWDKHFWYSWJJ5A&hash=item2b805fb277%3Ag%3AbWMAAOSw-fZnWayO&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAABAHoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKmiG8V nx1KwX3zju1HYilXg9cxeZgYGu4Ycx4Fs0Wg7RDKeLET%2Fk1P 5%2BBC2SwYgO5zElT4l8zgJ%2BI18c%2Fmb84JP%2BLjC6eq97 M1xpWJnotXvGwLucgBzrl2kCdIh3xhThBaHpY%2Ba%2FN7%2Bk PoLOT5vnJzvYfrZt5LVsELbXNsqSFR4tbjJiMQY3vGrfE%2B84 JbLjvW%2ByDuKturVU9JlEF1CYAstceUgtSQl0W%2FK2GpHVsm IPbdnPZW9a1m%2Fa3iqWsPq8sKns1Fwa4prVNuFkK4zj%2F04G Y3N42fwvT6MxXR%2Bf6xPHP0YacEh0ZuUUnxRmAbSl6Y%3D%7C tkp%3ABk9SR-yU7L75ZA&LH_Auction=1

[Mikeandvan]

I've put the Lintons back as I suspected the Totems were really struggling with the Suggie, what a difference, the music's come alive! I just wanted the Totems to work because they almost disappear into the room, ah well. At least the music's better now, that's the main thing! These Lintons are especially good with the sought of scratchy 60s garage rock I'm listening to at the minute.

[Mikeandvan]

Shall I get rid of these boxes now? They're kinda getting in the way.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54268926234_549591f30c_k.jpg

[Pigmy Pony]

Only if you're never going to sell the speakers, and we both know you will at some point :ner: Maybe a friend or relative with a spare room or loft?

[Mikeandvan]

Only if you're never going to sell the speakers, and we both know you will at some point :ner: Maybe a friend or relative with a spare room or loft?

In that case I'll have to chuck 'em.

[CageyH]

Can't you flat pack them and keep the protection somewhere, or does the protective packaging fill the box?

[Pigmy Pony]

I've often got rid of packaging in the past due to space issues, and always wished I hadn't. Still, if you've no alternative...

[Mikeandvan]

Can't you flat pack them and keep the protection somewhere, or does the protective packaging fill the box?

Yeah it fills the box, think I'll just chuck it all. These are my forever speakers now.

[Mikeandvan]

I've often got rid of packaging in the past due to space issues, and always wished I hadn't. Still, if you've no alternative...

The packaging on these must have cost as much as the speakers, still can't believe how cheap the whole package is actually, I swear these sound better than any of the so called higher end speakers I've had, like Proac etc. These are only £1200 all in with stands, and they look fab.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54270386297_32fe0ff1f2_k.jpg

[Pigmy Pony]

I think the Lintons look great in your room Mike, they don't visually dominate at all. Not sure about the Makita subwoofer though...

Oh and you need a bigger telly :D

[Barry]

I've become lost in this saga. Is the Sugden out of action, and if so what are you powering the Lintons with?

I agree with Steve, the Lintons don't dominate the room at all, in fact they look just right. :)

[Pigmy Pony]

I know what you mean, it has got confusing, especially considering the threads called 'Suggies croaked it'. Earlier, there were suggestions that a beefier amp might better control the Lintons' bass, but we seem to have come full circle...

The Lintons appear to be further into the room, perhaps that helps, especially with the two rear-firing ports.

[Barry]

Yes, I should have remembered that Mike had the Sugden repaired, as reported in post #148.

The important thing is he can now fully enjoy music in his new home without fear of annoying the neighbours. :)

[Mikeandvan]

I've become lost in this saga. Is the Sugden out of action, and if so what are you powering the Lintons with?

I agree with Steve, the Lintons don't dominate the room at all, in fact they look just right. :)

The Suggie, it does the job well, I did try a more powerful amp, the recommended by Marco - Denon PMA 1500 - the it was fuct - typical ebay crap - so I lost interest in trying a more powerful amp, but I may take up that interest again!! Like I said the Suggie works well, but if I can better then why not. I don't think buying 20+ Jap amps is a good idea, they always seem to have shaky volume control, and other things wrong with them, like one channel out of order! Older British amps are a safer bet I think. The Lintons defo boom less than the Totems. I'm afraid I judge speakers on sight, thinking smaller speaker, less bass, but these Sttaffs do kick it out.

[Mikeandvan]

Yes, I should have remembered that Mike had the Sugden repaired, as reported in post #148.

The important thing is he can now fully enjoy music in his new home without fear of annoying the neighbours. :)

Neighbours have returned, back to headphones!

[Mikeandvan]

I know what you mean, it has got confusing, especially considering the threads called 'Suggies croaked it'. Earlier, there were suggestions that a beefier amp might better control the Lintons' bass, but we seem to have come full circle...

The Lintons appear to be further into the room, perhaps that helps, especially with the two rear-firing ports.

They're about the same, it's true they don't take up much more room really, it's just with the stands they more visually dominant, from my sofa anyway, which is quite low. They've got the looks to make up for it though.

[Mikeandvan]

I think the Lintons look great in your room Mike, they don't visually dominate at all. Not sure about the Makita subwoofer though...

Oh and you need a bigger telly :D

A bit off topic, that Makita impact driver, the two batteries won't charge, been out of use too long I think, any idea how to do a Frankenstein on them?

[Pigmy Pony]

A bit off topic, that Makita impact driver, the two batteries won't charge, been out of use too long I think, any idea how to do a Frankenstein on them?

A customer did tell me about a way to revive these batteries, unfortunately I can't remember what he said, and I can't remember who the customer was :doh: If it comes to me I'll let you know. In the meantime hold onto them.

One thing I can say for certain is don't be tempted to get those LXT lookalike batteries sold on Ebay as "for Makita". The sellers are shysters and the batteries are shite. My lad bought a couple of them, they lasted a couple of months.

[CageyH]

A quick google will show you how to revive a battery.

[Barry]

One thing I can say for certain is don't be tempted to get those LXT lookalike batteries sold on Ebay as "for Makita". The sellers are shysters and the batteries are shite. My lad bought a couple of them, they lasted a couple of months.

I agree - never buy batteries marked "Made in China". I once bought some Duracell branded batteries in Africa. They were made in China and were absolutely useless.

[Mikeandvan]

Totem's sold on ebay for 200, Linton boxes chucked, forever speakers now, defo! Now playing Jack DeJohnette and sounding wonderful, not bad for £1200 all in with stands, speaker bargain of the century? And just to think the Staffs were £1500 when new about 20 years ago!!

[southall-1998_mk2]

Most hifi gear is a rip off. Glad you are content with the Lintons.

S.

[Macca]

Lintons made in China, Totem made in Canada. That probably accounts for the price difference.

Agree the Lintons are a fantastic bargain, can't see many people not liking them unless they like speakers that make everything sound 'live'.

[Barry]

This is an appropriate point with which to close this thread. Mike's Sugden amplifier has now been repaired and is working well with the Wharfedale Linton speakers to Mike's complete satisfaction.

Well done Mike: we love it "when a plan comes together".