View Full Version : SPUing up @ Ortofon
Seems to me Ortofon have found a few old cartridges lying about and have come up with a way of shifting them,
http://www.ortofon.com/products/spu-collector-box
Nice prezzie for the SPU fan who must have everything but just look at the price:eek:.
(DSJR will probably buy two of them;))
hifi_dave
23-09-2010, 10:57
I reckon that 99 out of that 100 are already ordered for the Far East.
Wow - thanks for that, Ralph! Now I know what Del can get me for Christmas! ;)
I love the description of the 90th Anniversary model. That's the one I would own if I could pick just one....
The basic model I have (classic GM) is easily the best cartridge I've used, and certainly amongst one of the finest, musically, I've heard at any price. It just has a wonderful way of music making, which sucks you in, and hours of enthralling listening have passed before you realise it!
Like it says in your link:
The SPU Classic embodies the essence of the original Moving Coils and is known for its dynamic and powerful sound reproduction.
Indeed, and the modern varieties, when partnered and set up properly (specifically when using a sonically matched SUT), aren't lush or 'romantic' sounding in the slightest, but it goes much further than that...
Listening to vinyl with an SPU results in an experience that transcends prosaic hi-fi considerations, transporting one into an entirely different plane of musical appreciation, where one genuinely feels a 'connection' with the performance - a 'feel' for the emotion the musician(s) imbued in that performance, whilst being divorced from analysing mere 'sound'.
It's hard to put into words, but when you've heard it you'll know.....
As an aside, I've also had the pleasure of listening to a Decca (London Gold) recently, another cartridge I've always wanted to hear, and compared it to the SPU, the results of which were very interesting indeed. However, more on that later! :)
Marco.
They're pictured with a Micro Seiki turntable (fair enough) but the whole thing is sitting on a record cabinet - not ideal with one of these decks. Kind of says it all really..... I'd love an SL15E though.......
No way a Decca will sound anything like a SPU. It can't and it won't I'm certain.
Magna Audio
23-09-2010, 11:52
"Listening to vinyl with an SPU results in an experience that transcends prosaic hi-fi considerations, transporting one into an entirely different plane of musical appreciation, where one genuinely feels a 'connection' with the performance - a 'feel' for the emotion the musician(s) imbued in that performance, whilst being divorced from analysing mere 'sound'. "
Wow! What a way with words.
I do love the sound of my Silver Meister on 12" arm and SP-10 in slate with gun metal armboard.
I am not looking any further - it just does it for me!
hifi_dave
23-09-2010, 12:26
No way a Decca will sound anything like a SPU. It can't and it won't I'm certain.
It doesn't. Nothing like.
Oh you'd be surprised, Dave!
There are differences, for sure (and I will outline them in due course), but their respective 'hearts' are in a very similar place ;)
Steve,
Glad you're enjoying the Silver Meister. That's a lovely cartridge, and you're using it in an ideal 'sonic environment' :cool:
Marco.
Oh you'd be surprised, Dave!
There are differences, for sure (and I will outline them in due course), but their respective 'hearts' are in a very similar place ;)
Marco.
That's good to know ;)
When I read this news item, I regarded it as perhaps a rather cynical marketing gimmick by Ortofon to sell their SPUs in these cash strapped times.
Actually, 10,000 Euro for four cartridges works out to about £530 per cartridge - not too expensive, if you like Ortofon SPUs and want four of them!
Frankly I think there is quite a bit of hype and romantic legend attached to the SPU design, but there must be some reason why the design attracts such loyalty. It is remarkable that this seminal cartridge design has never been out of production; initially to serve the Japanese market and now having got around EU health and safety issues, are made for everybody else.
Now I have to confess that my experience of the SPU is extremely limited, in fact limited to hearing Marco's very own for a short time. My only long-term experience with the SPU is somewhat tangential: these being with both the Ortofon SL15E and SL15E/II, second generation successors to the SPU and with the EMT 15 cartridge, itself based on the SPU design.
I have used all three cartridges for 30 - 35 years. The Ortofon SL15s received glowing reviews at the time, were more expensive than the SPU and thought to be better. The EMT 15 was based on the SPU design (like the legendary Neumann NV55) and may have initially been made for EMT by Ortofon.
It has been a while since I used my SL15s, but the EMT is never far from my ears; I regard it as my reference cartridge.
"Listening to vinyl with an SPU results in an experience that transcends prosaic hi-fi considerations, transporting one into an entirely different plane of musical appreciation, where one genuinely feels a 'connection' with the performance - a 'feel' for the emotion the musician(s) imbued in that performance, whilst being divorced from analysing mere 'sound'. "
Despite sounding like the purple prose often written in today's hi-fi press, there is a nugget of truth here. Unlike a lot of other good cartridges, which tend to draw attention to themselves: "Hey listen to me!", I find both the EMT (and the Decca) to be such that their lack of character (providing, of course, that the cartridge is optimally set up) allows the cartridge to get on with the job of transcribing the record grooves. If this allows one to 'commune' with either/or the composer and musicians, so be it.
Having said that, the Decca, of which I have enormous regard; having just resurrected it and gone to some trouble to set it up optimally (well to my ears at least), whilst providing great insight into the performance and creating a unique sense of presence, cannot be said to be tonally accurate - 'you win some you loose some'. I shall be very interested to read Marco's findings of the Decca vis a vis the SPU.
Oh, and finally - Marco, you won't like the 90th Anniversary SPU; it used a neodymium magnet!
Regards
spendorman
24-09-2010, 03:26
They're pictured with a Micro Seiki turntable (fair enough) but the whole thing is sitting on a record cabinet - not ideal with one of these decks. Kind of says it all really..... I'd love an SL15E though.......
No way a Decca will sound anything like a SPU. It can't and it won't I'm certain.
I have an original SL15E / original transformer, with Thorens TD124 II and Ortofon RS212 arm. It does sound very nice, but the tracking ability of the SL15E does not match even a budget moving magnet cartridge.
twelvebears
24-09-2010, 05:41
Actually, 10,000 Euro for four cartridges works out to about £530 per cartridge
Come again?
Assume there's a typo here Barry? Either that or something serious has happened to the Euro/Pound exchange rate.....
Come again?
Assume there's a typo here Barry? Either that or something serious has happened to the Euro/Pound exchange rate.....
Oops! Looks like I divided by four twice. As of this morning, 10,000 Euro = £8,532, making it £2,134 / cartridge. Not such a good deal after all. :(
Sorry
Regards
Like those hideous Looking ATC 150's which were £25K+ the pair and made in a small batch of twenty five pairs, the exclusivity will sell them to rich Kong Kong audiophools to whom £9000 is pocket money. As said before, I bet they're all sold anyhow and Ortofon are laughing all the way to the bank.
Hi Barry,
Despite soundng like the purple prose often written in today's hi-fi press, there is a nugget of truth here. Unlike a lot of other good cartridges, which tend to draw attention to themselves: "Hey listen to me!", I find both the EMT (and the Decca) to be such that their lack of character (providing, of course, that the cartridge is optimally set up) allows the cartidge to get on with the job of transcribing the record grooves. If this allows own to 'commune' with either/or the composer and musicians so be it.
Indeed.
Lol - yes it may be "purple prose" (it is indeed difficult to describe these things without sounding like a magazine reviewer), but that's genuinely how I feel when listening to vinyl via the SPU.
Even with the DL103SA, which I loved, there was occasionally the tendency to scrutinise the sound, as it excelled on some types of music (and certain albums) more than others, and this could be rather distracting and spoil one's 'connection' with the music being played.
I like to drift off into a 'zone' when I listen to music, and the SPU allows me to do this as, like you say, it doesn't draw attention to itself in the way of most MC cartridges made today with their 'hyped-up' frequency response, designed to sound superficially 'exciting' all the time, even if the music doesn't demand this effect.
The SPU I'm using (a modern one) is, contrary to some people's belief, a very dynamic sounding, wide-open and detailed cartridge, with no 'flab' whatsoever - it is extremely revealing of minute detail on recordings (and recording quality), coupled with having a finesse in the midrange that is utterly beguiling through the A23 SPU SUT, and underpinned by prodigious 'heft' in the lower frequencies when the music demands.
Iit is not an effect that is superimposed onto every recording, and indeed the SPU can often sound somewhat bass-light, in the way of huge speakers (like my Tannoys), which only 'kick ass' if there is ass to be kicked, as it were.......... ;)
The other thing about the SPU is that it sails through the most difficult of recordings with consummate ease - there is a security and assuredness about its sound which inspires confidence (perhaps partly due to its, some would say, somewhat 'scary' 4.0g optimal playing weight), enabling you to completely relax, and thus simply making you want to play record after record with no concerns whatsoever that things are liable to fall apart at any moment, as is often the case with many other cartridges. For me, it is truly 'fit & forget': a cartridge that is faithful to the soul of the music, and I can't really pay it a bigger compliment than that.
The Decca is rather interesting, and I love it in many respects, but it paints a somewhat different picture of the music. It has its charm and idiosyncrasies. However, I've not yet finished testing it to form a conclusive opinion, but trust me, you'll be the first to know when I do :cool:
Marco.
P.S One little tweak which makes a huge difference with the SPU is to replace the horribly thin bog standard cartridges wires with these:
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/3882/accesoriesheadshellcabl.jpg (http://img545.imageshack.us/i/accesoriesheadshellcabl.jpg/)
People underestimate how important the quality of these little leads is. It's the first cable the signal 'sees' as it leaves the cartridge, so any sonic degradation or signal loss occurring there due to poor quality wiring or terminations, cannot be retrieved further down the chain......
As an aside, regarding the SL-15, which I think Dave mentioned earlier, I had the opportunity to buy one last year (a low-output spherical stylus version), and was very interested in doing so, as I'd heard Will's high-output version on his Garrard 401 at one of the Owston fests, and been highly impressed.
So when Colin (Toppsy), whom many here will know from the audio-talk forum, very kindly sent me his for appraisal, which he was selling at a very good price, I was quite excited at the prospect.
However, to cut a long story short, I couldn't get on with it at all. On occasions, with the right music, it hinted at greatness, but most of the time it sounded distinctly shut-in, plump and 'phat' - in fact, it exhibited the very traits the uninitiated levy at the SPU! Yet the high-output version of Will's sounded very dynamic and beguiling in the way of my Classic GM SPU....
I'm unsure if this was due to a sonic mismatch in my system, but then why would that be so when the SPU (which I believe the SL-15 was derived from) works so splendidly?
I tried everything I could to get it to work to my requirements, even borrowing a specially designed SUT from Will, which at least gave me the correct gain (and I presume loading value) through the Croft's MM phono stage, but to no avail. Therefore in the end, I sent it back to Colin.
The SPU Classic GM I'm using now is, quite simply, in an entirely different league! :)
Marco.
spendorman
24-09-2010, 10:57
It's a long time ago, but I seem to recollect a correction circuit for the SL15E that was made by B&W. I made a clone of it, seemed to work OK.
Hi Paul,
What do you mean by a "correction circuit"?
Marco.
spendorman
24-09-2010, 13:22
Hi Paul,
What do you mean by a "correction circuit"?
Marco.
The frequency response of cartridges is not normally ruler straight. B&W made a passive equalisation circuit to try and correct this for the SL15E. I think there may have been a test on it in the Hi Fi News. Somewhere(?) I may have it.
Its a long time ago, I'm fairly sure it was B&W, but can't be absolutely certain. I wonder if B&W have a record of the unit.
Thanks, Paul - I see... So where did this correction circuit go - inside the phono stage? :)
Marco.
spendorman
24-09-2010, 13:38
Thanks, Paul - I see... So where did this correction circuit go - inside the phono stage? :)
Marco.
I think it It went between the cartridge and the matching transformer, but it could have been after the transformer. Terrible, that bit I can't remember.
I see... Interesting. I would've liked to have heard its effect. However, between that and the transformer, it's quite a lot of 'gubbins' in the (delicate) signal path!
Marco.
spendorman
24-09-2010, 14:03
I see... Interesting. I would've liked to have heard its effect. However, between that and the transformer, it's quite a lot of 'gubbins' in the (delicate) signal path!
Marco.
Well B&W must have thought it worth doing, no active devices in it, so not complicated. Thinking about it, it would be easier to do the equalisation between the transformer and amplifier (high impedance side) and I guess that is where the unit probably fitted.
I could email a guy at B&W to see if they have any details. Some years ago I contacted them for crossover diagrams of vintage speakers, they provided some and I was able to send then other circuits that they did not have in their archives.
I have now emailed B&W to see if they have any record of this unit.
As an aside, regarding the SL-15, which I think Dave mentioned earlier, I had the opportunity to buy one last year (a low-output spherical stylus version), and was very interested in doing so, as I'd heard Will's high-output version on his Garrard 401 at one of the Owston fests, and been highly impressed.
So when Colin (Toppsy), whom many here will know from the audio-talk forum, very kindly sent me his for appraisal, which he was selling at a very good price, I was quite excited at the prospect.
However, to cut a long story short, I couldn't get on with it at all. On occasions, with the right music, it hinted at greatness, but most of the time it sounded distinctly shut-in, plump and 'phat' - in fact, it exhibited the very traits the uninitiated levy at the SPU! Yet the high-output version of Will's sounded very dynamic and beguiling in the way of my Classic GM SPU....
I'm unsure if this was due to a sonic mismatch in my system, but then why would that be so when the SPU (which I believe the SL-15 was derived from) works so splendidly?
I tried everything I could to get it to work to my requirements, even borrowing a specially designed SUT from Will, which at least gave me the correct gain (and I presume loading value) through the Croft's MM phono stage, but to no avail. Therefore in the end, I sent it back to Colin.
The SPU Classic GM I'm using now is, quite simply, in an entirely different league! :)
Marco.
What SUT did you use Marco? The output from the SL15 (without SUT) is the same as that of your SPU Classic (200uV at 5cm/s).
Looks like I'll have to dig out my SL15Es and compare them with the EMT. More reviews!
Regards
Hi Barry,
I'm not sure. It was a DIY design - perhaps Will (who's also a member here) would comment? There was nothing wrong with the SUT; it's just that the SL-15 sounded as flat as a witch's tit!
Like I said, I really liked the high-output version on his Garrard, but the low-output version I had (which I believe originally belonged to Will) just wasn't at the races, which is strange as normally with moving coil cartridges it's the low-output versions that sound best.... :confused:
Perhaps your version with the Elliptical stylus will have a bit more sparkle and vigour than the low-output spherical version I heard?
Marco.
Marco the SUT's were the original Ortofon designed for the SL15
they did'nt come close to the Cinemags I was using with the SL15ell and compared with this the SL15 lacked HF sparkle..
.
The SL15e I was referring to was the original, not the later one which looked like an MC20.
The original one did have a low output, but I found the sound to be really good, even if tracking wasn't.
Ah, thanks for that, Will. The low-output SL-15 was just never in the same league as yours :)
I can see now why you kept it and flogged the other one! ;)
Marco.
The SL15e I was referring to was the original, not the later one which looked like an MC20.
The original one did have a low output, but I found the sound to be really good, even if tracking wasn't.
No worries, Dave. It was an original I had (with the grey front and 'Ortofon' only written on it in black, in a kind of Art Deco style font).
Perhaps I had a duffer, or in my system it just didn't work, because I suspect if you'd heard what I did, you'd have hated it, too!
Marco.
I take it it's long gone now?????
HiFi Dave bought an SL15 conical a short while ago. if it's in a headshell I'll try to get a listen to it when I venture over. Dave tends to use Tron for his mc stages.
Dunno... It went back to Toppsy, but what happened to it after that I have no idea.
Yep, it'd be interesting to hear your thoughts if you get a chance to listen to it again :)
I think I've got a picture of the one I had in an old system picture thread in The Gallery - I'll see if I can find it.
Marco.
Found it... But unfortunately it's not very clear, as the SL-15 is lurking at the back of the other cartidges I was using at the time (in a new Ortofon box):
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4189/05012009252ll5.jpg (http://img210.imageshack.us/i/05012009252ll5.jpg/)
Marco.
Magna Audio
25-09-2010, 18:36
I use a pair of Lundahl LL1681's set at 1:26. Perfect running flat (no impedance changing resistors needed as they present a load of 64.7 ohm, I have switchable to a bit more and less but never need them).
Gives me almost CD ouput levels from my Dynavector Phono stage. That is probably next on the list of things to upgrade actually.
Have an LCR tube stage planned (I_Should_Coco permitting).
oceanobsession
25-09-2010, 20:09
Just spotted this seems like a good buy for someone. (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ORTOFON-SPU-GOLD-/290480103993?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a1f6a239) i would love it for myself but ive now bought
a denon 103 and i would be in the dog house forever. still it would look nice on my pl71 oh well.
spendorman
27-09-2010, 10:10
Well B&W must have thought it worth doing, no active devices in it, so not complicated. Thinking about it, it would be easier to do the equalisation between the transformer and amplifier (high impedance side) and I guess that is where the unit probably fitted.
I could email a guy at B&W to see if they have any details. Some years ago I contacted them for crossover diagrams of vintage speakers, they provided some and I was able to send then other circuits that they did not have in their archives.
I have now emailed B&W to see if they have any record of this unit.
B&W have just replied to my query about the B&W equalisation unit for the Ortofon SL15E.
"I regret to inform you that that product is 40 years old and we do not hold any information on any equalisation unit for it."
Shame, if I unearth the test that I believe was in Hi-Fi News (about 1970), I will do a scan and upload it.
pure sound
28-09-2010, 12:58
Marco, You may have had a duffer or it may have been a later one.
I have an SPU here with the little headshell mounted transformers, I also have a NOS original SL15 (1968) with the silver writing on a black label at the front.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i318/murrayjohnson/ondeck.jpg
You can hear the family resemblance, and neither sounds flat. The SL15 tracks perfectly well at about 1.5g which seems to have been its original USP. Via an Audio Note ANS6 transformer I think I marginally prefer the SL15 to the SPU via its onboard transformers but they are both nice and do put many (most?) modern cartridges to shame in terms of involvement & colour.
Hi Guy,
Marco, You may have had a duffer or it may have been a later one.
I have an SPU here with the little headshell mounted transformers, I also have a NOS original SL15 (1968) with the silver writing on a black label at the front.
Yep, a duffer it might well have been... Yours looks identical to the one I had, though. Which SPU have you got - any chance of a pic? :)
You can hear the family resemblance, and neither sounds flat. The SL15 tracks perfectly well at about 1.5g which seems to have been its original USP. Via an Audio Note ANS6 transformer I think I marginally prefer the SL15 to the SPU via its onboard transformers but they are both nice and do put many (most?) modern cartridges to shame in terms of involvement & colour.
Yes, I didn't have any problems in terms of tracking with the SL-15, and used it at 1.5g, the same as you, which is rather different to the SPU's 4.0g (!) for optimal performance. I wonder why the SPU needs such a high VTF in comparison?
Some interesting info on the SL-15 on this thread: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2484
The on-board transformers in the SPU are good, but not the last word in low-noise or transparency in comparison to a high quality off-board SUT, such as the A23 (or one of your own designs), so it would be interesting to hear what you thought of an SPU in that configuration. The modern ones too have a more upfront and dynamic presentation, with the improved headshell material I suspect removing some coloration.
It would be interesting to hear your SPU and SL-15 in my system, and compare them to my own SPU, when you visit after the Manchester show :cool:
Marco.
Hi Guy,
Yep, a duffer it might well have been... Yours looks identical to the one I had, though. Which SPU have you got - any chance of a pic? :)
Yes, I didn't have any problems in terms of tracking with the SL-15, and used it at 1.5g, the same as you, which is rather different to the SPU's 4.0g (!) for optimal performance. I wonder why the SPU needs such a high VTF in comparison?
Some interesting info on the SL-15 on this thread: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2484
The on-board transformers in the SPU are good, but not the last word in low-noise or transparency in comparison to a high quality off-board SUT, such as the A23 (or one of your own designs), so it would be interesting to hear what you thought of an SPU in that configuration. The modern ones too have a more upfront and dynamic presentation, with the improved headshell material I suspect removing some coloration.
It would be interesting to hear your SPU and SL-15 in my system, and compare them to my own SPU, when you visit after the Manchester show :cool:
Marco.
Perhaps I should bring up my SL15E and SL15E/II for you to hear when I'm next up your way?
Regards
Yes, please do, Barry - I'm always up for a listen to these things! :)
Marco.
pure sound
01-10-2010, 14:09
Here's a pic of a few interesting cartridges. The SPU with transformers is nearest the front.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh107/pure_sound/cartridges.jpg
Also there is the Technics EPS310MC, the Tannoy & GE variable reluctance monsters, an M3D, Io and the SL15.
I'd agree that the onboard transformers in the SPU may be limiting it somewhat. The cartridge's owner would like me to remove them & wire it normally. I recently put some of the Jorgen Schou JS41 transformers (1:120 !) into a little box for him & he'd like to use those. They are supposedly the holy grail for SPU users I'm told. Actually I preferred the AudioNote ANS6 I have as a high ratio step up.
Guy, am I right in saying you're using steel bolts and nuts on the SL15? I only ask as many years ago, I actually bothered to compare the old black magnetised bolts with stainless steel ones which were non-magnetic as far as I could tell and these latter did actually improve the sonics for some reason. If you chop and change regularly for yourself and other people, it may be worth your while getting some boxes of different length 2.5mm stainless steel bolts, nuts and washers. I had these at work at the time..
pure sound
01-10-2010, 14:18
Yes, quite right. I think I'd run out of stainless when I fitted the SL15. I've got some more now, I should change them when I get a minute.
dave2010
01-10-2010, 15:05
msg 39
What's that one with the clockwork key coming out of it which looks like Mr Potato Head?
Curious collection.
Bws
pure sound
01-10-2010, 15:36
http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/ortodeccatan.html
Scroll to the bottom.
The GE & Tannoy play both Microgroove LP's or 78's although its the 78's aspect that interests me more.
That said, the Tannoy one makes mono LP's sound very nice. I haven't tried the GE for that yet. need to move it to another headshell.
(I do have other cartridges but these are the interesting ones!)
.....
I'd agree that the onboard transformers in the SPU may be limiting it somewhat. The cartridge's owner would like me to remove them & wire it normally. I recently put some of the Jorgen Schou JS41 transformers (1:120 !) into a little box for him & he'd like to use those. They are supposedly the holy grail for SPU users I'm told. Actually I preferred the AudioNote ANS6 I have as a high ratio step up.
I thought Jorgen Schou made the transformers for Ortofon anyway. A turns ratio of 120:1 will, when used with a nominal 47KOhm phono stage, going to present the cartridge with an impedance of 3.26 Ohms! Considering the SPU has a coil resistance of 2Ohm, this appears a bit severe. But if it sounds OK, don't worry.
Apropos the use of stainless steel fixings, all cartridges should be fitted using non-magnetic (aluminium, brass or SS) fixings.
Regards
Hi Guy,
Here's a pic of a few interesting cartridges. The SPU with transformers is nearest the front.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh107/pure_sound/cartridges.jpg
Also there is the Technics EPS310MC, the Tannoy & GE variable reluctance monsters, an M3D, Io and the SL15.
:respect: Love the Tannoy :eek:
I must get myself a dedicated mono cartridge soon, as I know it makes a significant difference, and I have about 200 mono albums now, so plenty of reason to own a proper mono cartridge.
I bet the Tannoy has a lovely rich tone!
Aren't detachable headshell tonearms wonderful for getting up to these sorts of shenanigans..... ;)
What's the cartridge in the Rek-O-Kut headshell? You should put your M3D in that one, as IMO it'll work better than the one it's in now (more mass).... Oh, and if you ever decide to sell the Rek-O-Kut, please give me first refusal!
I'd agree that the onboard transformers in the SPU may be limiting it somewhat. The cartridge's owner would like me to remove them & wire it normally.
Ah, so the SPU isn't yours? You should definitely get one, as you'd love it minus its on-board transformers, through a quality SUT.
I recently put some of the Jorgen Schou JS41 transformers (1:120 !) into a little box for him & he'd like to use those. They are supposedly the holy grail for SPU users I'm told. Actually I preferred the AudioNote ANS6 I have as a high ratio step up.
The AN is a fabulous SUT. I was told that Auditorium in Germany do a hi-end version of the A23 SUT for the SPU, which apparently is utterly superb. But it costs just under £2k... I've been offered a loan of it whenever I want, but I won't be taking up the offer until I'm prepared to shell out that sort of cash! :eek:
Marco.
pure sound
04-10-2010, 15:06
The other cartridge in the Rek o Kut headshell is a General Electric VR II which I think is similar in concept to the Tannoy one. Unfortunately the RoK shell won't go into an SME type fitting so I need to transplant the GE into an SME compatible shell and do my mono LP's & 78's shootout between the two of them. My all too brief listening to the Tannoy so far has been very encouraging.
I have owned an SPU before, about 20 years ago. this sample sounds pretty much the same. I like much of what they do but it definitely suits some music better than other types. The signature is pretty evident on listening. The SL15 has similar characteristics.
The other cartridge in the Rek o Kut headshell is a General Electric VR II which I think is similar in concept to the Tannoy one. Unfortunately the RoK shell won't go into an SME type fitting so I need to transplant the GE into an SME compatible shell and do my mono LP's & 78's shootout between the two of them.
Cool - so what use is the Rek-o-Kut headshell with any cartridge if it doesn't fit in your arm?
My all too brief listening to the Tannoy so far has been very encouraging.
It's one I've always wanted to listen to. Is the GE in a similar ballpark?
I have owned an SPU before, about 20 years ago. this sample sounds pretty much the same. I like much of what they do but it definitely suits some music better than other types.
Fair enough. Out of interest, what types of music do you think it suits better than others?
As you know, I have an extremely wide and varied taste in music and can go from listening to Jeff Buckley to Deep Purple, to Kraftwerk, to Pat Metheny, Nina Simone, to John Martyn and then onto Nat King Cole and Frank Sinatra all in the one sesh (I did this on Sunday, in fact) and I can't say I've noticed that the SPU particularly favours one genre of music over another.
In my opinion, certainly with the model I use, through the A23 SUT and the Croft, it just faithfully reproduces what's on the record with little obvious coloration.
It does however, really bring to life older recordings and make them sound beguilingly realistic, if that's what you mean :)
The signature is pretty evident on listening. The SL15 has similar characteristics.
How would you describe this signature? As you know, I've yet to hear an SL15 I like, so I'll defer judgement on that matter until I've heard yours when you visit in a couple of weeks :cool:
Marco.
Anyone got a Sonotone 9TAHC or Acos GP104 they don't want?????
pure sound
05-10-2010, 14:40
Cool - so what use is the Rek-O-Kut headshell with any cartridge if it doesn't fit in your arm?
It's one I've always wanted to listen to. Is the GE in a similar ballpark?
It (the headshell) is from a RoK arm I have which really needs some Audio Origami attention when J7 is less busy. I believe the GE will be in the same ballpark yes.
Fair enough. Out of interest, what types of music do you think it suits better than others?
Acoustic rather than electronic
How would you describe this signature? As you know, I've yet to hear an SL15 I like, so I'll defer judgement on that matter until I've heard yours when you visit in a couple of weeks :cool:
A smoothness of flow where one note is connected to the next in a plausible way rather than being itemised (if that makes sense). Also a burnished sense of tone. The two may be linked.
HTH
It (the headshell) is from a RoK arm I have which really needs some Audio Origami attention when J7 is less busy. I believe the GE will be in the same ballpark yes.
Ah, I didn't realise you had a Rek-o-Kut arm, too! Nice one. I've always wanted to hear one of those (with an M3D or DL-103), so let me know what you think when it's suitably fettled.
Acoustic rather than electronic
Ah, that's not the answer I expected! How much electronic music do you listen to, though? ;)
I think that's a fair observation, but I reckon that would be the case with most cartridges, as acoustic music (one could say 'real' music) is arguably where it's at in terms of most hi-fi considerations, which is what we are judging here.
Electronic music is somewhat 'false' in comparison, although no doubt arguably as clever when done well. To do it justice though, I feel, takes a specific kind of system tailored to make the most of it.
Dance music comes into the same category. If I were to assemble a system to make the most from electronic and dance music, I definitely wouldn't use an SPU, or probably much else of my system, other than the Techie (and my CDP), which is tailor-made for the job, but I'd have a different cartridge on it!
Having said that, I listen to a fair bit of electronic and dance music and I haven't noticed the SPU lacking in any specific area... Undoubtedly, though, it excels with acoustic music and jazz, and 50/60s stuff, and it rocks out with the best of 'em, too.
A smoothness of flow where one note is connected to the next in a plausible way rather than being itemised (if that makes sense). Also a burnished sense of tone. The two may be linked.
Yes I know what you mean. I think those characteristics are definitely present in the SPU, but I also have a suspicion that yours (being an older model) may be slightly smoother sounding than mine, and so perhaps might not have the same 'bite' with the genres of music you're referring to.
It's just a suspicion, though - we'll test it out when you visit! :cool:
Marco.
Marco, I was wondering how you got on with the Decca London Gold in the end.
When I had mine mounted in a Hadcock GH242SE on my modded Thorens TD160s it produced a lovely sound.
I think with some setups the sound may be slightly over delicate and care needs to be taken in matching either a step up transformer/pre amp.
Hi John,
The Decca of Barry's (which I still have and am currently in the process of assessing) is superb. At some point in the near future I will definitely add one to my cartridge collection.
To give you a brief summary of my thoughts so far, the Decca has a wonderful way with music, where subtle vocal inflections are gently teased from grooves with seemingly the dextrous touch of a ballerina, and rhythms and melodies are 'locked onto' and delivered with infectious élan, making for a rendition of music that positively bristles with joie de vivre.
Ultimately though, I suspect that I won't love it quite as much as the SPU. The SPU 'does its thang' with music, and likewise the Decca. Both cartridges have their own individual brand of magic which different listeners will 'tune into' and revel in.
What I feel can be said for certain, however, is that the Decca is worthy of joining the select group of cartridges still produced today which genuinely showcase the emotion and musical intent on recordings, before prosaic 'hi-fi considerations' or pandering to the commercial demands of a 'modern sound', as such the Decca encourages lengthy and highly rewarding listening sessions.
I'll go into more detail in a separate report when I've completed its appraisal :)
Marco.
Is the Decca in a 'Pod or that horrid red plastic excuse for a mounting bracket? if the latter, you haven't heard it yet.
Oh yeah, you need to really hear a Decca/London in a NAS deck. I'm sure Vic's decks/arms are great too, but mounted in an AceSpace on a Hyperspace or preferably Dias, the cartridge shows other talents, like bass for instance ;)
Hi Dave,
It's been expertly set-up by Barry in a GB mounting block and then fitted on my Jelco headshell. Barry posted pictures of it here before sending it to me, if you remember? :)
Here ya go (Decca London Gold shown on Barry's TD-124/SME 3009 with the headshell from my Jelco):
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9498/012vmf.jpg (http://img227.imageshack.us/i/012vmf.jpg/)
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8520/014sj.jpg (http://img17.imageshack.us/i/014sj.jpg/)
It loves the phono stage in my Croft (as I had suspected) and there's no shortage of bass, either!
Can't think why it would necessarily sound better in a NAS deck than on the Jelco (which is fluid damped) and Techie. You haven't heard it here, so don't go presuming things! ;)
Marco.
Hi John,
The Decca of Barry's (which I still have and am currently in the process of assessing) is superb. At some point in the near future I will definitely add one to my cartridge collection.
To give you a brief summary of my thoughts so far, the Decca has a wonderful way with music, where subtle vocal inflections are gently teased from grooves with seemingly the dextrous touch of a ballerina, and rhythms and melodies are 'locked onto' and delivered with infectious élan, making for a rendition of music that positively bristles with joie de vivre.
Ultimately though, I suspect that I won't love it quite as much as the SPU. The SPU 'does its thang' with music, and likewise the Decca. Both cartridges have their own individual brand of magic which different listeners will 'tune into' and revel in.
What I feel can be said for certain, however, is that the Decca is worthy of joining the select group of cartridges still produced today which genuinely showcase the emotion and musical intent on recordings, before prosaic 'hi-fi considerations' or pandering to the commercial demands of a 'modern sound', as such the Decca encourages lengthy and highly rewarding listening sessions.
I'll go into more detail in a separate report when I've completed its appraisal :)
Marco.
WOW if that's your opinion after a short listen, can't wait for the full report Marco!
I think you have missed your vocation - you should write for one of the Hi-Fi rags (sorry mags).
Regards
Lol thanks, Barry. A few people have said that!
Sadly, it's too political, and I'm somewhat of a maverick, unafraid to say what he thinks whether it is considered 'commercially appropriate' or not ;)
Marco.
Marco, you haven't heard an NAS deck either, so touche mon ami :lol:
Remember, I'm using my Microscanner in a totally inappropriate setup to get the best I know this one can give, yet it does everything I need of a cartridge. The Mentor just gave it a seamless dynamic range across the board and a width and depth of soundstage the Bastn 301 just couldn't quite manage, the latter pushing centre images forward by comparison and slightly narrowing the soundstage.
Marco, you haven't heard an NAS deck either, so touche mon ami...
Wrong; I have, but not in my own system ;)
Marco.
Lol thanks, Barry. A few people have said that!
Sadly, it's too political, and I'm somewhat of a maverick, unafraid to say what he thinks whether it is considered 'commercially appropriate' or not ;)
Marco.
Shame - it would make more interesting reading than what appears in Hi Fi World, and you would be more of a match for Kessler in Hi-Fi News.
I know, why not start an audio forum where you and anybody else can more or less say what they like?
Regards
Reid Malenfant
06-10-2010, 19:47
I know, why not start an audio forum where you and anybody else can more or less say what they like?
Regards
Am i missing something or don't we already have one? :eyebrows:
Am i missing something or don't we already have one? :eyebrows:
OK - so I didn't add a :eyebrows: after my post. I thought the 'sarcasm' was plain to see.
Regards
Reid Malenfant
06-10-2010, 21:07
OK - so I didn't add a :eyebrows: after my post. I thought the 'sarcasm' was plain to see.
Regards
Ah, that depends on how many units of alcohol you have consumed :lol: Sometimes you just have to make sure ;)
Bests :)
Shame - it would make more interesting reading than what appears in Hi Fi World, and you would be more of a match for Kessler in Hi-Fi News.
I know, why not start an audio forum where you and anybody else can more or less say what they like?
Hehehe... Indeed!
I enjoy Kessler's musings, although to emulate the great man I'd have to familiarise myself with the concept of a 'bitch wife from hell' and quaff rather rude amounts of Sassicaia ;)
Marco.
Hehehe... Indeed!
I enjoy Kessler's musings, although to emulate the great man I'd have to familiarise myself with such concepts as a 'bitch wife from hell' and quaff rather rude amounts of Sassicaia ;)
Marco.
Just looked it up - at those prices do you suppose he drinks that much of the stuff, or is more of a case of Kessler using this 'marque' as an aspirational index? Much in same way he bangs on about Buggatis, or Leicas, no end of Swiss watches and other aspirational products he likes to name drop. :wanker: (Been looking for an excuse to use that!)
Regards
Lol - I think you're right. The funny thing is, my uncle in Tuscany knows a chap who produces Sassicaia - he only lives about 15km from where our family home is, and so has litres of the stuff in his wine cellar, which shall we say, I 'obtain access to' when I'm over for bugger all! :eyebrows:
You'd love Sassicaia, as it's rather Bordeaux-like, but with the fruity acidity of a top Chianti. I must introduce you to it next time I bring some over... Another one you must sample sometime, along similar lines, is Brunello di Montalcino :)
Marco.
Mr Kessler had a habit of saying one thing on consumer magazines and quite another on the trade ones. I don't trust him an inch. He plays to his audience so he can sell his copy, let's put it that way...
Mr Kessler had a habit of saying one thing on consumer magazines and quite another on the trade ones. I don't trust him an inch. He plays to his audience so he can sell his copy, let's put it that way...
....wouldn't be much of a journo if he did anything else....;)
....wouldn't be much of a journo if he did anything else....;)
I like KK and his writing style, whether or not its all bull is down to me to decide when I read his articles. He appears to enjoy the things I do, such as decca cartridges, mechanical watches, decent hifi either vintage or 'high end'.....of course some reviews especially in HFN are no better than reading a marketing brochure on [fill in the US/Italian brand etc].....but its no different from the linnnaim journos I could mention.
ffs, a bunch of aging piss heads :doh:
SPU: like listening to the music from outside the room
Denon DL103/r : like listening to music in the room
Decca: like listening to live music while pressed right up against the stage
:cool:
:cool:
While playing Maroubra Bay - ah yes indeedy............
While playing Maroubra Bay - ah yes indeedy............
excellent Idea ;)
Hi Jonathan,
SPU: like listening to the music from outside the room
Denon DL103/r : like listening to music in the room
Decca: like listening to live music while pressed right up against the stage
Lol!
That's not quite how I would have put it, having used all three cartridges at length in my system ;)
Marco.
Hi Jonathan,
Lol!
That's not quite how I would have put it, having used all three cartridges at length in my system ;)
Marco.
well, I run all three as well :) it depends if the room's door is open and has appropriate tuning devices applied to the listening sweet spozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz:eyebrows:
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