Arrival of a New (Old) Toy

[Big Vern]

Hi All,

Just thought I'd share my (currently contained!) excitement at the news that I should be taking delivery, in the next couple of days, of a long awaited arrival in the form of my Onkyo PX-100M turntable. :)

It's been quite a journey to get to this point...literally. I placed a speculative advert on the Hifi For Sale website, on the off chance (and let's face it, long shot) that someone may have a PX-100M for sale. I've lusted after one of these 'tables for years, but at the time didn't realise that they were quite as rare as they are. Well, after about three weeks, I received an e-mail from a guy in...Austria(:doh:) telling me that he had one for sale. His e-mail was in German, so I had to run it through a couple of online translators to be sure he was actually offering it for sale.

Eventually, the sale was agreed with one snag...he didn't want to post it, for fear of it getting wrecked by Parcel Farce ;) The only solution available was for me to collect it from Eisenstadt in person, which meant a near 1000 mile journey :hmm:: . I hooked up with a good mate who kindly agreed to accompany me and, with a Morrison's Big Breakfast guzzled, we set off via the Chunnel. It took us a couple of days to get to Eisenstadt, where we spent a pleasant evening visiting the local bars. Next morning we met with the vendor - a chap called Roland - who kept referring to us as 'Hifi freaks' :rolleyes: (probably quite accurate...I mean, driving across Europe to collect a turntable is a tad freaky, I guess)

It was down to business and I was relieved of the wad of Euros burning a hole in my pocket. After a pleasant evening re-visiting the aforementioned bars, we made it back to Blighty within 24 hours...thank goodness for Autobahns :eyebrows: It was great to put 'The Beast' (Y reg Rover 75, no less :lol:) through its paces...

There is, however, a cautionary tale here and one which other members of this forum have hinted at...old stuff often doesn't work or is, quite often, FAULTY :doh: (That's why we buy the Technics...)
Yep, I discovered a fault with the speed stability. I was sure that this had not been present in Austria, but it mattered not...I had a duffer! :(

Now, since the purchase, I have made contact with a few owners of this rarity, and probably 80% report issues with speed stability. However, what really rubbed salt in the wounds was that the remaining 20% (2 owners, that is) report that the deck is a killer. One owner - a high end tonearm manufacturer from Germany - describes it as the quietest turntable he owns; and he boasts top model Clearaudio units in his collection. Bugger.

What to do? I was really struggling to think of who would be able to help. I decided to call Richard at Vantage Audio, knowing him from his work with Trio/Kenwood L-07Ds. I've read the comments of a few people who have contacted Richard on this forum for advice and I knew that the owner of L-07D.com (the magnificent site detailing the Kenwood L-07D) had sent Richard his first AND shattered plinth'd L-07D for repair - the restored unit firing his love for this venerable 'table. Richard kindly agreed to meet me to take the Onkyo in for repair. Now, I don't think even Richard knew what he was letting himself in for :doh:...........

The Onkyo is a magnificent beast, but it came about at the wrong time. Onkyo launched it at around the time CD was born, so the deck never truly had the chance to evolve - it is a bit of a working prototype. Axel Dahl of The Vintage Knob (amazing resource) thinks that about 50 or so were made - I have number 33! As a result, this deck should carry a health warning. I'm sure many of you have heard of Hifido - the Japanese used audio site. I believe that they employ some pretty competent engineers, who service many of the turntables et al which pass through the portals of this drool inducing emporium. A Google search one evening revealed that they had, some time ago, been in possession of an Onkyo PX-100M. I pinged an e-mail to them, asking if they had any advice relating to servicing the 'table. They informed me that the unit they had in had been faulty - speed stability issues - and that the engineers had GIVEN UP trying to fix it....GULP:doh::(

Over to Richard at Vantage. I cannot fault the guy - he could have thrown in the towel without shame, but he persisted and this stickability has been proven to be well placed. He has restored my unit to original spec and, using what technical data I had managed to obtain, has managed to get things spinning as intended. Genius. :)

Not only has he fixed the Onkyo, he kindly (and this will be of interest to some here) loaned me a fully modded Vantage Audio Technics SL1210, with bespoke power supply, modded platter and bearing - something which didn't really register with me until I realised (via this forum ;)) that there is an industry around modding this turntable. I have to say that I was extremely impressed with the Technics; I'm a bit of a collector of Japanese Direct Drives (I keep this quiet at work ;)), and Richard's Technics really holds its own in company it has no right to.

That said, I'll be happy to return said Technics and replace it with the Onkyo, which is something to behold. As soon as I have it plumbed in with my SME 312, for which Richard is making a new tonearm lead as I bought it sans lead, I'll get some images posted in the gallery. I'm hoping to fit my Dynavector DV505 in the near future - Richard has made a facsimile of the original Onkyo armboard in bronze, which will house the Dynavector...it will look stunning and - hopefully - sound just as good as it looks.

Anyway, sorry for rambling on...just wanted to share with you my delight at this impending return...I will keep you all posted and I may meet some of you in the bar at Whittlebury Hall on Saturday (now, why am I presuming you'll be in the bar?? :cool: )

Paul.

[Spectral Morn]

Hi All,

Just thought I'd share my (currently contained!) excitement at the news that I should be taking delivery, in the next couple of days, of a long awaited arrival in the form of my Onkyo PX-100M turntable. :)

It's been quite a journey to get to this point...literally. I placed a speculative advert on the Hifi For Sale website, on the off chance (and let's face it, long shot) that someone may have a PX-100M for sale. I've lusted after one of these 'tables for years, but at the time didn't realise that they were quite as rare as they are. Well, after about three weeks, I received an e-mail from a guy in...Austria(:doh:) telling me that he had one for sale. His e-mail was in German, so I had to run it through a couple of online translators to be sure he was actually offering it for sale.

Eventually, the sale was agreed with one snag...he didn't want to post it, for fear of it getting wrecked by Parcel Farce ;) The only solution available was for me to collect it from Eisenstadt in person, which meant a near 1000 mile journey :hmm:: . I hooked up with a good mate who kindly agreed to accompany me and, with a Morrison's Big Breakfast guzzled, we set off via the Chunnel. It took us a couple of days to get to Eisenstadt, where we spent a pleasant evening visiting the local bars. Next morning we met with the vendor - a chap called Roland - who kept referring to us as 'Hifi freaks' :rolleyes: (probably quite accurate...I mean, driving across Europe to collect a turntable is a tad freaky, I guess)

It was down to business and I was relieved of the wad of Euros burning a hole in my pocket. After a pleasant evening re-visiting the aforementioned bars, we made it back to Blighty within 24 hours...thank goodness for Autobahns :eyebrows: It was great to put 'The Beast' (Y reg Rover 75, no less :lol:) through its paces...

There is, however, a cautionary tale here and one which other members of this forum have hinted at...old stuff often doesn't work or is, quite often, FAULTY :doh: (That's why we buy the Technics...)
Yep, I discovered a fault with the speed stability. I was sure that this had not been present in Austria, but it mattered not...I had a duffer! :(

Now, since the purchase, I have made contact with a few owners of this rarity, and probably 80% report issues with speed stability. However, what really rubbed salt in the wounds was that the remaining 20% (2 owners, that is) report that the deck is a killer. One owner - a high end tonearm manufacturer from Germany - describes it as the quietest turntable he owns; and he boasts top model Clearaudio units in his collection. Bugger.

What to do? I was really struggling to think of who would be able to help. I decided to call Richard at Vantage Audio, knowing him from his work with Trio/Kenwood L-07Ds. I've read the comments of a few people who have contacted Richard on this forum for advice and I knew that the owner of L-07D.com (the magnificent site detailing the Kenwood L-07D) had sent Richard his first AND shattered plinth'd L-07D for repair - the restored unit firing his love for this venerable 'table. Richard kindly agreed to meet me to take the Onkyo in for repair. Now, I don't think even Richard knew what he was letting himself in for :doh:...........

The Onkyo is a magnificent beast, but it came about at the wrong time. Onkyo launched it at around the time CD was born, so the deck never truly had the chance to evolve - it is a bit of a working prototype. Axel Dahl of The Vintage Knob (amazing resource) thinks that about 50 or so were made - I have number 33! As a result, this deck should carry a health warning. I'm sure many of you have heard of Hifido - the Japanese used audio site. I believe that they employ some pretty competent engineers, who service many of the turntables et al which pass through the portals of this drool inducing emporium. A Google search one evening revealed that they had, some time ago, been in possession of an Onkyo PX-100M. I pinged an e-mail to them, asking if they had any advice relating to servicing the 'table. They informed me that the unit they had in had been faulty - speed stability issues - and that the engineers had GIVEN UP trying to fix it....GULP:doh::(

Over to Richard at Vantage. I cannot fault the guy - he could have thrown in the towel without shame, but he persisted and this stickability has been proven to be well placed. He has restored my unit to original spec and, using what technical data I had managed to obtain, has managed to get things spinning as intended. Genius. :)

Not only has he fixed the Onkyo, he kindly (and this will be of interest to some here) loaned me a fully modded Vantage Audio Technics SL1210, with bespoke power supply, modded platter and bearing - something which didn't really register with me until I realised (via this forum ;)) that there is an industry around modding this turntable. I have to say that I was extremely impressed with the Technics; I'm a bit of a collector of Japanese Direct Drives (I keep this quiet at work ;)), and Richard's Technics really holds its own in company it has no right to.

That said, I'll be happy to return said Technics and replace it with the Onkyo, which is something to behold. As soon as I have it plumbed in with my SME 312, for which Richard is making a new tonearm lead as I bought it sans lead, I'll get some images posted in the gallery. I'm hoping to fit my Dynavector DV505 in the near future - Richard has made a facsimile of the original Onkyo armboard in bronze, which will house the Dynavector...it will look stunning and - hopefully - sound just as good as it looks.

Anyway, sorry for rambling on...just wanted to share with you my delight at this impending return...I will keep you all posted and I may meet some of you in the bar at Whittlebury Hall on Saturday (now, why am I presuming you'll be in the bar?? :cool: )

Paul.

Interesting post. I can't wait to see some photos.

Yes many of us will be in the main bar at 1 O'clock for a spot of lunch.

Link to TT mentioned above http://audio-database.com/ONKYO/player/px-100m-e.html and a photo.....

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTVKIjB7NCpldFaOBMlFkMkfAO0W_aXU ptu7a9_HDW05jCZ9pk&t=1&usg=__brQqFIM0CY_b8sKV_iFFzQNoT2c=


Regards D S D L

[Alex_UK]

One of the most entertaining posts I've read in a while - thanks for sharing Paul. You Freak. ;) Glad it has a happy ending, and look forward to the piccies. (PS, I had a Rover 75 too, absolutely loved it, my best ever car up to then.)

[Big Vern]

Hi Neil/Alex,

Thanks for your kind words...I'm glad you found my somewhat bumpy Onkyo journey interesting :)

Piccies to follow and thanks for the heads-up re meeting place on Saturday :cool:

Alex - glad you like the Rover - it's not just me ;) Mine came with a free Fureys CD for those long winter journeys in front of the 'log fire dashboard' :lol:

Best Wishes,

Paul.

[Alex_UK]

Alex - glad you like the Rover - it's not just me ;) Mine came with a free Fureys CD for those long winter journeys in front of the 'log fire dashboard' :lol:


I was quite into rap/hip-hop at the time, used to drive around with Cypress Hill at full pelt, trying to lower the tone (as well as average age) of the average owner... what a tw@t I was! :D (ok, still am!)

Look forward to the continued story and pictures on the Onkyo :)

[John]

Really interested how you get with this

[chris@panteg]

Very interesting Paul , looks to be a great deck and to be honest it makes my Techie look like a mickey mouse turntable lol.

[shane]

This to me is what the hobby is all about. Going to extremes to follow an irrational but irresistible urge because some piece of gear has attached itself to your heartstrings. A brilliant tale.

Incidentally, all you Rover owners may enjoy this. It caters for all ages of Rover from the original safety bicycle to the last 25/45/75 range, including my favourites, the post-war P2s and P3s.

http://www.rover-forum.thersr.co.uk/

[dale kid]

Paul, you are extremely lucky to have found this turntable and even luckier to have found someone knowledgeable to repair this as the motor is notorious for stability problems as you have discovered.

You mention a German owner and if I may be so bold as to say could this be a certain gentleman by the name of Frank? I think you may very well find that particular turntable example has similar related issues.

I digress, please excuse me.

This particular style of drive motor although called linear by the manufacturer is still in essence from the direct drive stable, the main design difference being the rotor/stator interface located on the outside so to speak whilst the main bearing assembly is a self contained item not integral with the motor mechanism.

All in all a fascinating machine and all of cousre courtesy of old friends at Micro Seiki.

May your days be long and peaceful, Dale

[Big Vern]

Hi Everyone,

Many thanks for the kind replies - I'm pleased my epic (seems like that to me!) has been an interesting read.

Chris - it may look the part against the Techie, but for that all important reliability, the Techie wins hands down! ;)

Shane, I must say, I didn't do any half measures with this one and boy, do I bear the scars but, according to Bart Simpson, Chicks dig scars so I'll wear mine with pride :lol:

Dale - yes, the owner's name is Frank and that takes the reliability count down to 10% :eek: I would love to know more about your knowledge of this particular turntable, but appreciate this may not be easy, so no worries :)

It's interesting what you say about the motor - your observations tie in EXACTLY with what Richard at Vantage Audio has said to me...it is not a linear motor in the true sense, more of a different take on the conventional direct drive approach

Richard has done really well to get things going...fingers crossed (and, frankly, everything else with the length and flexibility to cross! Steady! :lol:)

I'll keep you in the loop and post some pictures as soon as the deck arrives...

All units standby! :)

Paul.

[Techno Commander]

Certainly an interesting looking turntable.

[Big Vern]

Dear All,

Well, I've got the beauty set up and spinning! The Onkyo came with an external armboard, onto which I've strapped an SME 312 with Lyra Delos ...I'm hoping to use the armboard on the 'table at some point soon, to mount my DV-505...I'm in no rush :)

Sound - pretty spectacular, I must say. I've read that this 'table is meant to be very quiet, and I can confirm that this is the case :) I've added a couple of images; one of Richard (genius) from Vantage setting things up - the other of the 'table doing its thing...

I'll get some more images uploaded soon...

Best Wishes,

Paul.

[ourdogmax]

Looks beautiful Paul.

[MartinT]

Hi Paul

Fab looking deck, really a collector's item but one you will be able to use every day. I loved the Jap-lish write-up on that linked website, too.

At last, another Dynavector arm owner! Mine's a DV507-II but it's not that different from your 505. Do let us know when you've got it going and post some more pics.

[Marco]

Hi Paul,

That's a fabulous looking deck - that platter looks amazing! :eek:

Has Dave Anderton seen it?

Yes Richard does know his stuff; it's just a pity he's not 'in the zone', in terms of forums, as I'd love to have a chat with him :)

Hey, you've come a long way since asking about DL-103s, if you're now using a Lyra Delos, which has a very different sound!

What made you go down that route, then?

Like Martin, I can't wait to see what the DV looks like on your deck. We must have a sesh sometime, matey :cool:

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

Paul

That looks like something to drool over ' lol , looks like Richard is in love from his expression.

[Big Vern]

Hi Guys,

Once again, thanks for the kind comments :)

I'm in the process of letting the 'table bed in, sometimes switching it on and leaving it for an hour or two...as I type, however, 'Gaucho' is spinning and sounding rather nice (to my ears, at least ;))

When Richard (who perhaps was in love in the shot (I see what you mean!)...or more likely suffering from post traumatic stress :lol:)took delivery of the deck, he machined a bronze armboard for an SME, however, this can also be used for the Dynavector, which simply sits on top of the armboard and is held in place with four screws. I hope to have this in situ over the next few weeks and will post some piccies as soon as it touches down.

I have to say Martin, I've rather lusted after that 507II you have - a truly beautiful arm that looks the biz on the Techie :)

Marco - yes, I do seem to have gone off at a bit of a tangent! ;) I have to confess that I have a few turntables in my collection (MUST get a life:lol:), so the Denon 103 is still in my line of sight...the Delos is another (expensive:stalks:) option I use. I suppose most vinyl addicts have several cartridges to choose from, but most sensibly stick to one turntable, thus fully appreciating the difference in presentation between said cartridges :lol:

Dave hasn't seen the Onkyo - I had a brief exchange with Dave a few months back, but have not had contact since. I thoroughly enjoyed your write-up of the sesh you had with him - he has some amazing kit.

When I have a mo, I'll get some images of my system put into the gallery - I've just finished making my wall mounted racks for my collection - average weight per rack = 80kg and there are three of them, with two shelve apiece:eek: Even managed to machine my own spikes :) Needless to say, the wall into which they are bolted is NOT made of plasterboard :lol:

I'll be in touch with some more images soon - pull my finger out!

Cheers,

Paul.

[theophile]

Another beautiful manifestation of the ongoing affair that Corporate Japan was having with Micro Seiki.Many of the Japanese Audio corporations approached Micro Seiki with a view to manufacturing an upper echelon turntable for their catalogue of products.

One rarely ever hears of anyone who owns one of these co-operative efforts who isn't rapturously happy with their acquisition.

The Onkyo almost defined 'mythical'.Now we know that myth it is not.Thanks for posting. :)

[MartinT]

Looking forward to seeing your piccies, Paul :)

[Rare Bird]

wow Paul a PX-100M i think there's only about 50 of those, don't take my wurd for it, i maybe wrong..

[Big Vern]

Dear All,

Listening has been progressing nicely - in fact, my other kit hasn't really had a look in of late. I've been really quite impressed with this turntable - I've corresponded with a few owners over the last few years, and can say that the majority really rate it; there was one chap in America who had been employed by Sansui in Japan in the 70s, who felt that the PX-100M was better with MMs than MCs; I'll speak as I find...Shure V15 V XMR versus Lyra Delos...Delos wins hands down (as I think most of us would expect! :) ).

I think it was Frank Schroeder (sp) that described the PX as the quietest turntable he had (not) heard - I must concur - rock solid and super quiet springs to mind. What's really grabbed me is the sense of dynamic scale and musicality. Okay, I'm sure that the Lyra has something to do with this, but the Onkyo is not getting in the way of the music making, or sucking the very lifeblood out of the music...:)

Theophile - you've hit the nail on the head here - I own several turntables, all from Japan and all from the co-operative school of turntable making and I must say that they are all superb in their own way...and without exception, beautifully made.

The Onkyo is an interesting beast...Richard (Vantage Audio) and I have discussed how it came to be on many occasions. We think that the basic design/circuit idea was Onkyo's, but they gave it to Micro Seiki to turn into reality - very much like Etsuro Nakamichi did with his design for the TX-1000. I really take my hat off to the Micro Seiki organisation; brilliantly clever electronics engineers and sublime machinists.

That said, I think they signed the PX-100M off after a heavy night on the saki at the karaoke bar :lolsign: The design is clever if not, as we have identified earlier in this thread, a true linear motor. What it does make for is a super smooth, stable rotation, which benefits stability and imaging no end. As you will see from the image of the circuit boards attached, there are quite a few of them and there are rather a lot of connecting wires...complicated. A couple of owners have reported that, changing earthing arrangements with the cartridge has caused the turntable to work its way up the speeds, of its own accord. Whilst I have never seen this phenomenon, it does hint at a certain fragility to things.

My philosophy will be simple - when its in situ and doing what I want, then leave well alone! :lol: So far, the combination of Lyra Delos, SME 312 and Onkyo PX-100M has been sublime, so I'm in no rush to change.

I've uploaded a few images - some of the bespoke armboard made by Vantage Audio out of bronze - this is a facsimilie of the original (image also included) but in my opinion is even better than the one originally supplied. There is a picture of the coils - a linear motor manufacturer I know saw these and said; "interesting, I bet that cost a fortune to develop and manufacture"...probably why we don't see this sort of thing around today - at least not within the reach of most mortals :lol:

There's also a Japanese magazine cover and an American advert...I'll post some pictures of the Onkyo in the context of the rest of my system soon...

Best Wishes,

Paul.

[Big Vern]

A couple more images...