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View Full Version : Upgrading Lesson learned ( I hope [emoji16] )



andyrlb
25-03-2024, 11:28
Some months ago I was very happily listening to my Ruark crusader 2’s hooked up to either exposure ( mono 8’s or dual 4 ) or HD audio amplification , I remember thinking damn this sounds so good and then I spotted a beautiful pair of Mowgan Mabon speakers which were in a beautiful santos rosewood finish, off I went to Essex to view them , after demoing them I was sold and I would collect them the following week, well that all went tits up as the seller just kept messing me about saying he had personal problems and one excuse after another ( I should have known when his wife was just rude at the demo )
He was clearly just another t%^t .
Now the seed had been planted and I was obsessively ( my autism ) looking for a better pair of speakers and then I stumbled across Oli’s ( bigman ) Ekta 2’s but they were way out of my price range! Then the Autism kicked in and the brain went into overdrive ( I had to have them ! ) .
A week later and with a killer migraine I was driving home with them , had to stop around 6 times to vomit and sleep, got home and collapsed into my bed .
Next morning I’m as bright as a spark and I eagerly hooked up the speakers and …… [emoji20] a cloud of disappointment came over me ( I’d sold the Ruarks btw ) I thought what have I done! I then contacted Oli and he just couldn’t understand why I was so disappointed
until he asked what amplifier I was using ( I told him) then he knew there lay the problem, not enough power for the speakers THEY NEED POWER he explained , he was so right.
So I now have the most expensive purchase I’ve ever made on hifi and I can’t enjoy them ( gutted ) so I’m now skint but hey I can look at them right [emoji16]
But this was like having an R8 only firing on half its cylinders , I had to hear these beauties as they’re meant to be heard and then the next journey began .
I sold off some more hifi bits and then began scouring the for sale threads and there it was THE BEAST that would drive the Ekta 2’s .
It was a non working Threshold Stasis 2 ( 200w class A ) once again I obsessively researched the amp and decided to buy it ( or exchange some hifi for it )
The seller even agreed to bring it to me ( yes the alarm bells rang ) I ignored the alarm bells as something told me that this is what I must have for the speakers to sing at their best .
Got the amp home and started investigating , burnt boards ! Burnt out traces !
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But that wasn’t enough to stop me resurrecting this beast ( I mean how difficult can it be ? )
HOW DIFFICULT ? Absolutely incredibly difficult was the answer [emoji30]
The boards are totally toast and irreplaceable!
It was then I reached out to some wonderful people on DIY audio and only with their help and guidance I could set about restoring the beast .
I think it’s one of the most testing of projects I’ve ever undertaken ( even with their help )
I was told that it’s a very very complicated amp to work for some of them let alone a complete novice such as myself.
But with persistence, all new FE boards , new power supply capacitors, around 24 On Semi output transistors, all new wiring etc etc it was ready for testing ( 2 months down the line )
Now was the time that those clever guys on DIY would learn more about the stasis 2 as it hadn’t been done before as far as we knew ( no threads about it anywhere)
I had to establish the voltage at the voltage rails and loads of different things before powering on ( I bought a variac for this )
Variable pots were set to maximum resistance and the beast was ready for power on ( I was crapping it ! )
POWER ON and all is well ( house lights dimmed momentarily)
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Then I had to connect my 4 multimeters in order to bring it to life , I did so and slowly I was to lower the resistance at the pots until it got to a certain mv at a 1Ohm resistor and then in turn the temperature would rise and eventually the amp would become stable .
More problems [emoji30]discovered at this point, we then learned that a certain number of the output transistors were fake ! Fake Motorola’s in fact , so more On Semi transistors ordered ( now all 48 are genuine On Semi )
We also learned from one of Nelson Pass’s mates that the amp MUST be all bolted together in order to set the bias , so I bolted it all together soldered everything and powered it on again ( without the variac )
Now we’re getting somewhere, bias was raised 85mv at the emitter resistor ( over a matter of hours ) but the temperature is too low ( 39c ) it needs to be at 45c minimum so more fiddling with the pots to get to temperature then finally ( after many attempts) it’s stable and the bias is set .
It’s at this point that I learned that there’s no speaker protection in the amp so if it goes pop then the speakers will go bang !
After leaving it powered on for a few days I plugged in some cheap speakers and WOW ! Music was actually heard from something that I had restored.
A few days later I had to try the Ekta 2’s after all they were the cause of this long and at times stressful journey.
Bloody hell Oli was totally right! Now with this 200w class A beast up them they were/are sounding better than any speakers I’ve ever heard ( PERIOD ) .
As I write this it’s a week later and the amp just gets better and better and the speakers are just stunning in every way.

The morel of the story is “ be careful about matching when upgrading “
Am I as happy now as I was those few months ago YES , was it worth the stress YES , I really don’t think I could better the speakers or the power amp without a shed load of money.

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andyrlb
25-03-2024, 11:44
Oh I forgot to add that I now need a preamp of equal quality. [emoji16]


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CageyH
25-03-2024, 11:58
The Topping Pre90 is pretty transparent, and not expensive.

Barry
25-03-2024, 12:01
Well done! I admire your persistency and tenacity. Most of us would have given up long ago!

andyrlb
25-03-2024, 12:01
The Topping Pre90 is pretty transparent, and not expensive.

I’ll research that now , thanks.


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andyrlb
25-03-2024, 12:04
Well done! I admire your persistency and tenacity. Most of us would have given up long ago!

Mate I very nearly gave up on several occasions, I think my autism has something to do with that not giving up as I’m the same at work when faced with a difficult job .
Thanks [emoji1303]


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Pigmy Pony
25-03-2024, 13:47
Truly beautiful speakers Andy, well done. I don't know if you have been following Jason's thread on Audio Addicts this last couple of years (an interesting read), but the dedication and attention to detail he's given to his speakers have by all accounts produced some of the finest products available at any price.

I believe Firebottle has some similar to yours, and he loves them.

It looks like they came at some cost physically and financially, but as the saying goes, "The quality is remembered long after the cost is forgotten" :)

andyrlb
25-03-2024, 13:55
Truly beautiful speakers Andy, well done. I don't know if you have been following Jason's thread on Audio Addicts this last couple of years (an interesting read), but the dedication and attention to detail he's given to his speakers have by all accounts produced some of the finest products available at any price.

I believe Firebottle has some similar to yours, and he loves them.

It looks like they came at some cost physically and financially, but as the saying goes, "The quality is remembered long after the cost is forgotten" :)

It will be long remembered for sure and I certainly appreciate the amp more than any other because of the highs and lows I had to endure to get it working. The speakers are just fantastic in every aspect aside from not being very efficient ( but then amp isn’t either [emoji1787])


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Barry
25-03-2024, 14:13
Mate I very nearly gave up on several occasions, I think my autism has something to do with that not giving up as I’m the same at work when faced with a difficult job .
Thanks [emoji1303]


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Well you can rest assured that you are now the proud possessor of one of the best amplifiers ever built.

I'm a big believer in using single-channel monoblock amplifiers; provided they have the option of a balanced line input, which the Threshold Stasis amps have.

I use them placed directly behind each speaker, thus using a minimum length of speaker cable (30cm), and run balanced line cables back to the preamplifier, near the sources.

Initially I used Levinson ML-2 25W class A amplifiers; chosen because I use Quad electrostatic speakers, which must not be presented with a signal of more than 33V peak.

Like all class A amplifiers, they draw constant power from the mains, and the maximum theoretical efficiency is 50%. In practice the efficency will be much lower. Thus what power is not sent to the speaker is dissipated as heat, so the heating run hot. In the case of the ML-2s the heatsinks run very hot, very hot, to the point that the black anodising had started to bleach, and they made my listening room uncomfortably hot in the summer months! Your Stasis amplifiers are better in this regard.

So sit back and enjoy the fruits of all your hard work. :)

Pigmy Pony
25-03-2024, 14:29
Might be my warped imagination, but the gloss black at the top of your speaker appears to reflect what looks like a bearded man wearing sunglasses, looking at some geezer with his pants pulled down. Not that I'm judging... :)

andyrlb
25-03-2024, 14:36
Might be my warped imagination, but the gloss black at the top of your speaker appears to reflect what looks like a bearded man wearing sunglasses, looking at some geezer with his pants pulled down. Not that I'm judging... :)

I see that now [emoji1787] not my thing though mate [emoji16]


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Barry
25-03-2024, 14:48
What a vivid and inventive imagination you have there Steve!

Though I'm surprised you neglected to mention the legs of the "geezer's" partner who is wearing pink high heels. :eek:

Pigmy Pony
25-03-2024, 15:11
What a vivid and inventive imagination you have there Steve!

Though I'm surprised you neglected to mention the legs of the "geezer's" partner who is wearing pink high heels. :eek:

I didn't feel it was my place to comment on Andy's choice of footwear.

andyrlb
25-03-2024, 15:17
I didn't feel it was my place to comment on Andy's choice of footwear.

Ok so the pink wasn’t a good choice [emoji2369]


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Pigmy Pony
25-03-2024, 15:21
Getting back to your other hobby, I must say that Threshold amp looks awesome, and I applaud your technical skills (and bravery). Well done!

andyrlb
25-03-2024, 15:37
Getting back to your other hobby, I must say that Threshold amp looks awesome, and I applaud your technical skills (and bravery). Well done!

The technical skills were shown to be truly lacking when I first embarked on the rebuild, the people guiding me were talking gibberish as far as I was concerned so they pushed me and made me learn by drawing out the traces of the boards , the values of each component etc , I’d then have to take measurement after measurement and record the information and then after all of that they realised that the voltage to the rails was 72v and not the 45v that they were thinking it would be ( uk voltage maybe, I still don’t know) so then several components on the new FE boards ( which were designed by Nelson Pass btw ) had to be changed which meant more measurements [emoji35]
This sort of thing kept happening right when I thought I was at the finish post ( and then we discovered the fake output transistors)
I very very nearly threw in the towel then but I was in too deep and thankfully I persevered and here I am listening as I write.
Next thing to build is a speaker protection box and then I’ll get obsessed with getting the right preamp. [emoji16]


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andyrlb
25-03-2024, 15:47
I should add that I didn’t have anywhere near enough skills or the knowledge to complete this without the help a gent in Australia named Gary , the man is a legend .
The input of quite a few other Nelson Pass fans also made it possible.


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Pigmy Pony
25-03-2024, 16:08
I think you're downplaying your role, you was at the sharp end, with the most to lose... Now, can you have a look at my coffee maker? It won't switch on... oh wait, it needs refilling :doh:

andyrlb
25-03-2024, 16:09
You’re too kind mate


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Puffin
25-03-2024, 17:00
I built a Lightspeed attenuator pre-amp over 10 years ago (could be longer!) and I have used it every day since. It is a passive pre, but it sounds anything but passive to me. There are not really any moving parts as the pot is used as a voltage regulator to the Light Dependant Resistors (LDRs) The parts count is very low and my DIY jobbie cost under £30 to build. I did add a remote controlled pot and you could also add switching if you need more than one input.

Diyaudio has a very long thread about it in which you may see my Moniker.

andyrlb
25-03-2024, 17:03
I built a Lightspeed attenuator pre-amp over 10 years ago (could be longer!) and I have used it every day since. It is a passive pre, but it sounds anything but passive to me. There are not really any moving parts as the pot is used as a voltage regulator to the Light Dependant Resistors (LDRs) The parts count is very low and my DIY jobbie cost under £30 to build. I did add a remote controlled pot and you could also add switching if you need more than one input.

Diyaudio has a very long thread about it in which you may see my Moniker.

I’ll take a look at that . The guys on there did recommend a preamp kit from the diy store but I’m damned if I can find where they mentioned it ( or what it was )


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andyrlb
25-03-2024, 17:06
As I wrote I can’t remember what the pre was I remembered it [emoji1787]
Several people recommended it actually.

B1 with Korg Triode (B1K) Full Kit


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Macca
25-03-2024, 18:32
Great speakers those I had a listen to them when Oli had them.

I don't think they are inefficient but just need a lot of current due to low impedance.

Very cool amp (looks not running :) ) they don't make them like that anymore.

andyrlb
25-03-2024, 18:38
Great speakers those I had a listen to them when Oli had them.

I don't think they are inefficient but just need a lot of current due to low impedance.

Very cool amp (looks not running :) ) they don't make them like that anymore.

Hi Martin, yeah I got the inefficient thing wrong, I agree low impedance would be it .
I was listening with some 100w monoblocks ( HD audio) which I thought would be fine but how wrong I was .
The speakers are amazing .


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Lawrence001
25-03-2024, 19:40
Might be my warped imagination, but the gloss black at the top of your speaker appears to reflect what looks like a bearded man wearing sunglasses, looking at some geezer with his pants pulled down. Not that I'm judging... :)We now know where Andrew Tate is staying while he awaits trial for whatever it is he's been up to.

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Macca
25-03-2024, 20:17
Hi Martin, yeah I got the inefficient thing wrong, I agree low impedance would be it .
I was listening with some 100w monoblocks ( HD audio) which I thought would be fine but how wrong I was .
The speakers are amazing .


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You seem to have a bit of space for them; they were just a bit too big for Oli's room, but you could still hear they were a class act. They have that refinement you just don't get in a lot of speakers - at any price.

andyrlb
25-03-2024, 21:08
You seem to have a bit of space for them; they were just a bit too big for Oli's room, but you could still hear they were a class act. They have that refinement you just don't get in a lot of speakers - at any price.

I love them and feel proud when I see them every morning and then when I hear them it’s like my entire hifi journey was meant to lead me to these and then the basically brand new amp compliments them so well . [emoji1303]


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CageyH
26-03-2024, 06:10
I have read through the post on DIY Audio.
That is quite a job you took on. Well done for getting it working.
It shows what a great community exists out there, with complete strangers helping each other out.

andyrlb
26-03-2024, 06:16
I have read through the post on DIY Audio.
That is quite a job you took on. Well done for getting it working.
It shows what a great community exists out there, with complete strangers helping each other out.

Yes I was quite overwhelmed at their generosity. There are still good people out there.


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hornucopia
26-03-2024, 10:07
CODA CS1b integrated amp might have worked.(made by ex-Pass people apparently)
I use one into my 84db inefficient Diptyque DP77 isodynamic speakers.
You could have borrowed my Hafler DH200 which might have enough oomph..
But there’s nothing like listening to something DIY.
….and that is certainly a BOX!




Maybe it’s just Essex,but a similar t</T is messing me about re my RAV4 sale.

hornucopia
26-03-2024, 14:53
DCB For sale on Pink Fish if you move quickly!

andyrlb
26-03-2024, 15:04
DCB For sale on Pink Fish if you move quickly!

Cheers [emoji1303]


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