Stylus tracking force.

[Jimbo]

I have for many years always used a digital stylus scale/balance to set up my VTF on the turntable but have done this with the turntable mat in place. The mat is about 1.5mm - 2mm thick. However recently I have read somewhere that it is best to adjust the stylus tracking force without the mat in place.

This would obviously make a fair bit of difference so I was wondering what other folk did.

Do you set up you stylus tracking force with or without mat in place?

[AJSki2fly]

I have for many years always used a digital stylus scale/balance to set up my VTF on the turntable but have done this with the turntable mat in place. The mat is about 1.5mm - 2mm thick. However recently I have read somewhere that it is best to adjust the stylus tracking force without the mat in place.

This would obviously make a fair bit of difference so I was wondering what other folk did.

Do you set up you stylus tracking force with or without mat in place?

My TT mat is fixed being bonded to the platter and I have not played around with mats on top, just followed the manufacturers guidance. I setup the VTF now using Pro-Ject electronic gauge, with it directly on the platter/mat when the stylus is on the gauge then it is very close to being at the height of a 120-140gm record, so should be reasonably accurate. https://www.project-audio.com/en/product/measure-it-e/ There are similar ones to this on Ebay etc.

With respect to mat height, if this an addition to your TT then you should probably consider looking at the VTA(Vertical Tracking Angle) first, most cartridges specify around a 21 degree cantilever angle to the record for optimum play back, I have personally found this can be variable though. There is somewhere a long thread on VTA and Azimuth. With VTA I have found general that if the tonearm tube is a parallel tube, not tapered then getting it parallel to the top of a flat record when the stylus is in the groove is a good place to start. I use a mid thickness record for this and then tweak the arm up or down at the rear until I hit the sweet spot for my ears. I then also listen with a few favourite tracks, female vocal like Eva Cassidy Fields of Gold is a good one for example. If you are getting sibilance then the rear of the arm maybe too high, if is sounds a bit bassy then it is too low at the rear. If I recall correctly a 9 inch arm will indeed require nearly 4mm (3.989) of movement of VTA to make a 1 degree change in SRA(stylus rake angle).

This is a very good reference and guide https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/setting-up-a-phono-cartridge-1/

I always go back and check VTF if I change VTA or Azimuth, just to ensure it is still correct.

[Jimbo]

Thanks for the info and feedback Adrian:thumbsup:

[Enossification]

For what it's worth, I have always set it up with the mat in place and no one has ever condemned me for it including local dealers. I have always found though this bit of vinyl setup a pain in the arse.

[Barry]

Always set the VTF with the mat in place.

[struth]

For what it's worth, I have always set it up with the mat in place and no one has ever condemned me for it including local dealers. I have always found though this bit of vinyl setup a pain in the arse.

i did same. should keep it right if you use one of the old, thicker than average records as it will be between normal and 180/200 versions

[Barry]

Obsessives in the US have been known to adjust the SRA each time they play a record, to allow for the various thicknesses. :doh:

[Jimbo]

I think I will stick to setting up with mat in place. My balance has a staggered platform that puts the stylus at roughly the correct height of a 180g record when weighing on the balance. That should be fairly close to an accurate assessment of VTF?

[Barry]

Agreed. I always start with the maximum recommended tracking force, less 0.25g, and gradually reduce it by ear.

[Jimbo]

Agreed. I always start with the maximum recommended tracking force, less 0.25g, and gradually reduce it by ear.

I am using 2M Black still which is quoted 1.5 - 1.7g VTF. Apparently reading round the web recently folk are finding it to sound fuller and more fleshed out at 1.7 - 1.75g. I have only used it at 1.6g so will crank up the weight tonight and have a listen at 1.7.

[Barry]

I would never exceed the manufacturer's maximum recommended VTF. But would agree that it might be a good idea to try 1.7g. If you like what you hear then try reducing the VTF in 0.1g steps.

[struth]

i usually find around highest weight sounds close to best, give or take...not always but often an up to 2gm cart i start around 2gm and work a bit down. if it sounds poorer then go back. often the angle of arm will need rechecked tho if you do change weight

[AJSki2fly]

Agreed. I always start with the maximum recommended tracking force, less 0.25g, and gradually reduce it by ear.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that having too low a tracking weight, below the recommended, can cause groove wear and mis-tracking.

[struth]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that having too low a tracking weight, below the recommended, can cause groove wear and mis-tracking.

too low and it'll likely jump out of groove a fair bit and sound poor

[Barry]

Under tracking will cause more record damage than over tracking, which is why I start near the maximum recommended VTF and work my way down.

On the other hand, applying too much VTF, greater than the maximum recommended, is IMO likely to cause damage to the cantilever suspension.

[Pigmy Pony]

Obsessives in the US have been known to adjust the SRA each time they play a record, to allow for the various thicknesses. :doh:

I bet they get invited to all the best parties

[Pigmy Pony]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that having too low a tracking weight, below the recommended, can cause groove wear and mis-tracking.

The mistracking itself can and will damage the record. The consensus always seems to have been to set at top end of the recommended range. I remember that recommendation with my old MP11 cart and that was a while ago :)

[Jimbo]

Tonight I have listened to the same track at 1.5, 1.6 and 1.7g VTF and somewhere between 1.5-1.6 sounds perfect. 1.7g VF is definitely not great, loose air, detail, space everything in fact. Music sounds like you have thrown a blanket over it. At 1.58g VTF it opens up and sounds so spacious and beautiful. Tonal balance, transparency and fluidity to the sound is spot on!

[Barry]

Well done! :)

Now you have to determine what is the best enviromental temperature around the TT for your cartridge (which will not be the same as that for the speakers)!

[Qwin]

Well James, I take a different approach to tracking weight adjustment.
I use a wooden block at the side of the platter, that brings the platform of my digital scales up to the height of a 180g record, when its sat on my copper platter mat (I don't use a soft mat).
When adjusting the tracking weight, remember to adjust the anti skate force as the two are linked. To much/little anti skate will introduce a small amount of distortion or lack of clarity, it just wont hit the sweet spot unless the two are in harmony.

[Jimbo]

Well James, I take a different approach to tracking weight adjustment.
I use a wooden block at the side of the platter, that brings the platform of my digital scales up to the height of a 180g record, when its sat on my copper platter mat (I don't use a soft mat).
When adjusting the tracking weight, remember to adjust the anti skate force as the two are linked. To much/little anti skate will introduce a small amount of distortion or lack of clarity, it just wont hit the sweet spot unless the two are in harmony.

I don't use anti skate Ken. My Unipivot is far happier without it!:)