'No Industry Defrauds You Like The Audio Industry'

[Macca]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMAu_mCxoII&t=2s

[Pigmy Pony]

:lol: That was entertaining, good find Mart.

[Jimbo]

Very amusing.

[Macca]

I'm not much for hi-fi stuff on Youtube but that one is quite entertaining isn't it? Bit of a 'Top Gear' vibe going on.

[struth]

good to see all the nonsense outed; trouble is after seeing that the true madophile will buy the stuff anyway:doh:

[Jimbo]

I'm not much for hi-fi stuff on Youtube but that one is quite entertaining isn't it? Bit of a 'Top Gear' vibe going on.

Should be more of those type of YouTubers rather than all the hifi guys telling you this is an "End Game" product only to be superseded by another "End Game" product the next month.

You only have an "End Game" product when you run out of money!:lol:

[Pigmy Pony]

good to see all the nonsense outed; trouble is after seeing that the true madophile will buy the stuff anyway:doh:

A fool and his money... In the case of those cable lifters, if you have kids it would work out cheaper to pay them an hourly rate to stand there holding the cables aloft.

Now there's a business opportunity, hiring out audiophile grade kids. You could also have them on volume attenuation duties, save on remote control batteries :) And if the kids are small enough they could stick their fingers into the unused input sockets, apparently there are sonic benefits to be had there. But not unused power sockets though, we'd have to be clear on that, and apply a surcharge for any kids returned damaged.

[Macca]

A fool and his money... In the case of those cable lifters, if you have kids it would work out cheaper to pay them an hourly rate to stand there holding the cables aloft.
d.

give them a smartphone to stare at and they'd be fine sitting there for hours. Just drape the cable across their shoulders.

You need low capacitance children ofc otherwise could be worse than having the cable on the floor.

[Pigmy Pony]

give them a smartphone to stare at and they'd be fine sitting there for hours. Just drape the cable across their shoulders.

You need low capacitance children ofc otherwise could be worse than having the cable on the floor.

How would you test their capacitance? That sounds like fun, though I'm not well up on how electricity works. But if it involves using tasers I'm in :)

[Macca]

How would you test their capacitance? That sounds like fun, though I'm not well up on how electricity works. But if it involves using tasers I'm in :)

I don't know either but I'm positive that tasers would be a good starting point.

[Pigmy Pony]

I believe that children are our future and it's heartening to see that others agree.

[Barry]

How would you test their capacitance? That sounds like fun, though I'm not well up on how electricity works. But if it involves using tasers I'm in :)

The capacitance of an adult human being is roughly 100pF. The capacitance is related to surface area, so children will have a corresponding lower capacitance.

Of course if there is additional insulation such as shoes, socks and floor covering that will add to the totall capacitance.

[Pigmy Pony]

I suppose we could nail them to the floor, but that would leave us open to accusations of child cruelty.

[AJSki2fly]

Very enjoyable, thanks Martin.

[struth]

I suppose we could nail them to the floor, but that would leave us open to accusations of child cruelty.

safety nails i hope

[Barry]

Does anyone here use cable lifters or socket covers? Don't be shy!

[hifi_dave]

I have some socket covers which came foc with the amps and the cables are lifted off the floor by the carpet. If you want 'exotic' cable lifters, some pieces of thick foam cut to size will do the job for a £.

[walpurgis]

I have some socket covers which came foc with the amps and the cables are lifted off the floor by the carpet. If you want 'exotic' cable lifters, some pieces of thick foam cut to size will do the job for a £.

No, you need the foam for cable lifter isolation pads :).

[Pigmy Pony]

No, you need the foam for cable lifter isolation pads :).

So are cable lifters with floor spikes last year's thing? I can't keep up.

[Lawrence001]

So are cable lifters with floor spikes last year's thing? I can't keep up.Cable lifters with 3 spikes were last year. The year before everyone used 4 spikes but clearly it risked them rocking if they weren't set exactly right.

[Barry]

Are the spiked cable lifters directional? In other words is their orientation important?

I still maintain that the location of the equipment be such so that all the cables follow 'lay lines'. ;)

[Pigmy Pony]

Are the spiked cable lifters directional? In other words is their orientation important?

I still maintain that the location of the equipment be such so that all the cables follow 'lay lines'. ;)

Yes i think the orientation will be important, and having mine pointing the wrong way is probably the reason I heard no improvement.

[Lawrence001]

You probably did something stupid like having them pointing from your amp to your speakers. You need to get one of those dowsing sticks to work out where they should go.

[rigger67]

I remember back in the late 80s/early 90s one of the mags giving away some directional stickers to place on your turntable platter and even on your actual records (on the labels) to create some kind of beneficial effect on the sound.

They made snake oil seem quite reasonable ...

[Lawrence001]

Apart from Judas Priest albums saying "do it" backwards I can't see the benefit of directionality in records.

[Pigmy Pony]

You probably did something stupid like having them pointing from your amp to your speakers. You need to get one of those dowsing sticks to work out where they should go.

:eek: Have you seen the price of those audiophile-grade dowsing sticks? I decided to use one I found in the garden, perhaps that's where I went wrong, sometimes you really do get what you pay for.

[Pigmy Pony]

Wasn't there a Beatles recording which ended with "Paul McCartney is dead" or something recorded backwards, or was someone having me on?

[struth]

‘Paul Is Dead’: The Bizarre Story of Music’s Most Notorious Conspiracy Theory The whole phenomenon, however accidentally, shows how crazy and devoted fan love can get.

Fifty years ago, a Detroit DJ accidentally started the biggest hoax in rock & roll history: the “Paul is dead” craze. It blew up on October 12, 1969, when Russ Gibb was hosting his show on WKNR. A mysterious caller told him to put on the Beatles (https://www.rollingstone.com/t/beatles/)’ White Album and spin the “number nine, number nine” intro from “Revolution 9” backwards. When Gibb tried it on the air, he heard the words (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7QZNZx2QKA), “Turn me on, dead man.” The clues kept coming. At the end of “Strawberry Fields Forever,” John says, “I buried Paul.” What could it all mean?.
It meant the Beatles were hiding a secret: Paul McCartney (https://www.rollingstone.com/t/paul-mccartney/) got killed in a car crash back in 1966, and the band replaced him with an imposter. The rumor spread like wildfire, as fans searched their Beatle albums for clues. Fifty years later, “Paul is dead” remains the weirdest and most famous of all music conspiracy theories. It became a permanent part of Beatles lore—a totally fan-generated phenomenon that the band could only watch with amusement or exasperation. As Paul told Rolling Stone in 1974 (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/paul-mccartney-is-not-dead-and-neither-is-the-past-87779/), “Someone from the office rang me up and said, ‘Look, Paul, you’re dead.’ And I said, ‘Oh, I don’t agree with that.’”
Needless to say, it wasn’t true — Paul is not just gloriously alive, he’s still peaking as a songwriter and performer, debuting at Number One last year with Egypt Station. But after the Detroit radio broadcast, people pounced on the story. Two days later, the Michigan Daily explained the Abbey Road cover as a funeral procession: the Preacher (John in white), the Undertaker (Ringo in black), the Corpse (poor Macca). And bringing up the rear, George in blue denim as the grave-digger—man, even in the conspiracy theories, George gets shafted with the dirty work.

Here’s how the rumor went, as summed up by Nicholas Schaffner in The Beatles Forever (https://amzn.to/2VyI6qn?asc_source=web&asc_campaign=web&asc_refurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rollingstone.com%2Fmu sic%2Fmusic-features%2Fpaul-mccartney-is-dead-conspiracy-897189%2F): Paul died on November 9, 1966. He drove away from Abbey Road late the night before — a “stupid bloody Tuesday” — then blew his mind out in a car. He was Officially Pronounced Dead (“O.P.D.”) on Wednesday morning at 5 o’clock, which is why George points to that line on the Sgt. Pepper sleeve, while Paul wears an “O.P.D.” patch. But the other Beatles decided to hush up the news, so Wednesday-morning papers didn’t come. Somehow, they kept Paul’s death a secret, replaced him with a look-alike, then dropped sly hints about the cover-up scam. The imposter wrote “Hey Jude” and “Blackbird,” which means he’s the guy who probably should have had Paul’s job in the first place.
Fans began whispering about all the clues on the just-released Abbey Road. (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-album-reviews/beatles-abbey-road-890229/) Look at that cover — Paul’s barefoot, out of step with the others, holding a cigarette in his right hand. (The real Paul was a lefty.) The Volkswagen with the “28 IF” license plate — that’s how old Paul would have been if he were still alive. (He was 27.) No theory was too ridiculous to get taken seriously. Fans eagerly believed “walrus” is Greek for corpse (it isn’t — it’s Scandinavian) or that “goo goo goo joob” is what Humpty Dumpty says in James Joyce’s Finnegans Wake, before his fatal fall off the wall. (Nope, sorry.) “I Am the Walrus (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/100-greatest-beatles-songs-154008/i-am-the-walrus-180017/)” ends with a live BBC broadcast of a fatal scene from Shakespeare’s King Lear, with Oswald groaning (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAjp9IgS0vg), “O, untimely death!” (That one’s true—John just taped it off the radio one night and liked how it fit the song.) And in “Glass Onion,” John sings, “Here’s another clue for you all / The Walrus was Paul.”

[hifinutt]

enjoyed that video thanks , ashamed to say i tried those telos xlr plugs once !!

[Qwin]

Never used cable lifters myself, along with fancy expensive mains leads, its a step to far for me.
I was surprised to see cable lifters (ceramic) used in a vinyl cutting studio in a TV documentary.
The reporter stood on and nearly tripped over the cable, knocked it off the blocks.

[Macca]

Never used cable lifters myself, along with fancy expensive mains leads, its a step to far for me.
I was surprised to see cable lifters (ceramic) used in a vinyl cutting studio in a TV documentary.
The reporter stood on and nearly tripped over the cable, knocked it off the blocks.

Pros can be nutty too. They know how to operate the equipment effectively, but they don't necessarily know anything about how it actually works. So just as open to oddball stuff like cable lifters actually doing something.

[Barry]

What is it that cable lifters are supposed to do, and why?

[Macca]

What is it that cable lifters are supposed to do, and why?

takes the concept that current runs on the outside of the cable and then makes up some stuff about that interacting with the capacitance of the floor. Or something similar.

I can see if you had a power cable running under the floor very close to the surface, that maybe it would help raising the speaker cable away from it - but who has that?

[Mikeandvan]

Round my way dank means shite, I should watch video first as it may be satire, doh.

[struth]

Dank means dreary n damp to me at least

[Pigmy Pony]

Dank means dreary n damp to me at least

Me too.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/dank

Although I do remember in an episode of Auf Wiedersehen Pet where someone said "Danke Shon", and Oz replied "Aye, and donkey shite to you too pal". Maybe that's where it came from.

[Barry]

takes the concept that current runs on the outside of the cable and then makes up some stuff about that interacting with the capacitance of the floor. Or something similar.

I can see if you had a power cable running under the floor very close to the surface, that maybe it would help raising the speaker cable away from it - but who has that?

My post was somewhat rhetorical, but yes you are right, it's supposedly to reduce the proximity effect of the floor and carpet to the line capacitance of the cable.

The trouble is if you do the sums, the effect is minute and utterly negligible.

[narabdela]

The trouble is if you do the sums, the effect is minute and utterly negligible.

The same with most foo. If it has any effect at all.

[zanash]

Oh dear ...

you all seem to have missed the point Youtube it is firstly a monetization exercise, where anyone can say anything that conforms to the rule of the channel regardless of truth or veracity. Thats not saying everything is false but all contributors have an agenda. This activity can create a reasonable income for those that can create a controversial stance or opinion, which generates views.More views means more money !

There's a famous clip by a well known tech contributor, where he deliberately [?] use a bit of kit incorrectly and then declares at great length the items worthlessness. How do I know he misused the item ..well thats obvious, I own one ! Its instructions are specific but not hard to follow, so why would you not follow them ? Ive also demonstrated the same item to many people, who have all been impressed. A couple have gone on to purchase a unit for themselves.

In the uk we have something called trading standards ....if you think the claims for an item are false or exaggerated, then all you need do is contact them. I did this with a product from Russ Andrews, The result was the removal of various product claims from its advertising/ sales pitch. So if any of the products shown [ ive not bothered with this video clip ..lifes too short] are being sold or advertised in the uk file a complaint.

If you haven't then just bleating about it will have zero effect.

Get off you bums and do something about it, and cleanse the audio hobby of fakery !

[zanash]

.................................. it's supposedly to reduce the proximity effect of the floor and carpet to the line capacitance of the cable.

....................................The trouble is if you do the sums, the effect is minute and utterly negligible.

hmmm....

please refer to inverse square law.

which in simple terms says you don't need to move far away from some thing to reduce its effect by a great deal.


secondly if your only looking at line capacitance then your missing a whole panoply of interactions ... when an electric field is generated in an insulated wire in a magnetic field.

please don't misunderstand this as defending the item, I'm just pointing out your generalization as not seeing the whole picture.

[zanash]

Oh dear ...

you all seem to have missed the point Youtube it is firstly a monetization exercise, where anyone can say anything that conforms to the rule of the channel regardless of truth or veracity. Thats not saying everything is false but all contributors have an agenda. This activity can create a reasonable income for those that can create a controversial stance or opinion, which generates views.More views means more money !

There's a famous clip by a well known tech contributor, where he deliberately [?] use a bit of kit incorrectly and then declares at great length the items worthlessness. How do I know he misused the item ..well thats obvious, I own one ! Its instructions are specific but not hard to follow, so why would you not follow them ? Ive also demonstrated the same item to many people, who have all been impressed. A couple have gone on to purchase a unit for themselves.

In the uk we have something called trading standards ....if you think the claims for an item are false or exaggerated, then all you need do is contact them. I did this with a product from Russ Andrews, The result was the removal of various product claims from its advertising/ sales pitch. So if any of the products shown [ ive not bothered with this video clip ..lifes too short] are being sold or advertised in the uk file a complaint.

If you haven't then just bleating about it will have zero effect.

Get off you bums and do something about it, and cleanse the audio hobby of fakery !

[Macca]

Oh dear ...

you all seem to have missed the point Youtube it is firstly a monetization exercise, where anyone can say anything that conforms to the rule of the channel regardless of truth or veracity. Thats not saying everything is false but all contributors have an agenda. This activity can create a reasonable income for those that can create a controversial stance or opinion, which generates views.More views means more money !

There's a famous clip by a well known tech contributor, where he deliberately [?] use a bit of kit incorrectly and then declares at great length the items worthlessness. How do I know he misused the item ..well thats obvious, I own one ! Its instructions are specific but not hard to follow, so why would you not follow them ? Ive also demonstrated the same item to many people, who have all been impressed. A couple have gone on to purchase a unit for themselves.

In the uk we have something called trading standards ....if you think the claims for an item are false or exaggerated, then all you need do is contact them. I did this with a product from Russ Andrews, The result was the removal of various product claims from its advertising/ sales pitch. So if any of the products shown [ ive not bothered with this video clip ..lifes too short] are being sold or advertised in the uk file a complaint.

If you haven't then just bleating about it will have zero effect.

Get off you bums and do something about it, and cleanse the audio hobby of fakery !

I hope we all understand how Youtube works...

I linked to the video because, unlike 99% of hi-fi related Youtube videos, it's a fairly entertaining watch. Obviously the products featured are all nonsense, we don't need to see a video to know that.

I especially liked the 'noise remover' with the flashing LED; when they take it apart all the components in it are just to make the LED light up. Buyer beware!

Edit - oh and one more thing, if everyone stopped buying this stuff they would stop making it. Far more effective than going to the ASA to complain about false advertising. Russ Andrews is still selling his tat as are the rest of them. They're just more careful about the wording of the advertising copy.

[Barry]

I hope we all understand how Youtube works...

I linked to the video because, unlike 99% of hi-fi related Youtube videos, it's a fairly entertaining watch. Obviously the products featured are all nonsense, we don't need to see a video to know that.

I especially liked the 'noise remover' with the flashing LED; when they take it apart all the components in it are just to make the LED light up. Buyer beware!

Edit - oh and one more thing, if everyone stopped buying this stuff they would stop making it. Far more effective than going to the ASA to complain about false advertising. Russ Andrews is still selling his tat as are the rest of them. They're just more careful about the wording of the advertising copy.

Excellent reply Martin. Zanash clearly misses the point of the YouTube video - it's meant to be funny to point out the absurdity of some 'audio enhancing devices'.

[Barry]

.................................. it's supposedly to reduce the proximity effect of the floor and carpet to the line capacitance of the cable.

....................................The trouble is if you do the sums, the effect is minute and utterly negligible.

hmmm....

please refer to inverse square law.

which in simple terms says you don't need to move far away from some thing to reduce its effect by a great deal.


secondly if your only looking at line capacitance then your missing a whole panoply of interactions ... when an electric field is generated in an insulated wire in a magnetic field.

please don't misunderstand this as defending the item, I'm just pointing out your generalization as not seeing the whole picture.

The inverse square law has nothing to do with it. The line parameters for a parallel pair of conductors depends on the diameters of the two wires, the separation between them, and for the capacitance the effective permittivity of the insulation separating the two.

Thus it is only the line capacitance that might change by having the speaker cable laying on the carpet, or on bare wood flooring.

If we take QED 79 strand speaker cable as an example, given the conductor geometry, the effective dielectric constant is 3.44.
The dielectric constant of Nylon is ~5, so a reasonably figure for a nylon carpet is ~(5 + 1) = 3. Thus for the half of the cable that lies on the carpet the effective dielectric constant is (3.44 + 3)/2 = 3.22, and assuming the side of cable that lies away from the carpet remains unaffected, the overall effective dielectric constant will be (3.44 + 3.22)/2 = 3.33, that is virtually no change at all.
Performing the same calculations for wool carpets, with an effective dielectric constant of 3.5, again the effect is negligible.

For solid wood floors such as pine, again the effect is negligible. Oak wood has a much higher dielectric constant, which like all wood depends on moisture content, but can be as high as 20. So if the speaker cables are in intimate contact with the floor, with no air gaps, then the capacitance per unit length could be roughly doubled to 128pF/m, so for a 5m length 640pF. But this figure is to be compared to the 2uF input capacitance for an electrostatic speaker and a similar or much larger figure for moving coil speaker crossover networks.