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What are you using on your Turntable bearing to grease/lube or oil it.
I know this question has come up before but I though it might capture what folk are using currently.
depends on the bearings tbh..
Audio Origami bearing oil, which I think could possibly be “Slick 50”
Audio Origami bearing oil, which I think could possibly be “Slick 50”
Interesting. I bet Slick 50 works out cheaper?
I used synthetic engine oil on my bearing last time I lubed it but I might use something else from the non audiophile world when I oil it next.
It smelt similar, but I have no idea if it is that.
brian2957
09-12-2023, 10:51
I recently bought a very nice second hand Rega Planar 3 ( thanks hifi Dave :) ) and wasn't sure if the bearing had been serviced so I decided to change the oil. Firstly I used Audio Origami oil and thought the sound was a bit 'thin' I then went on to Youtube and it seemed that car gear oil seemed to be recommended for this turntable. I had some in the garage so used that and it seems to work perfectly well.
When I had a GL75 I discovered that the type of bearing lubrication used had a large effect on the speed and sound of the turntable. Grease affected the speed stability and thin oil affected the sound quality. In the end I settled for car engine oil. I would use what's recommended by your turntable manufacturer if possible.
Slick 50 may not work out cheaper, as you would need to add oil to it as well.
I recently bought a very nice second hand Rega Planar 3 ( thanks hifi Dave :) ) and wasn't sure if the bearing had been serviced so I decided to change the oil. Firstly I used Audio Origami oil and thought the sound was a bit 'thin' I then went on to Youtube and it seemed that car gear oil seemed to be recommended for this turntable. I had some in the garage so used that and it seems to work perfectly well.
When I had a GL75 I discovered that the type of bearing lubrication used had a large effect on the speed and sound of the turntable. Grease affected the speed stability and thin oil affected the sound quality. In the end I settled for car engine oil. I would use what's recommended by your turntable manufacturer if possible.
Recommendation from VPI range from engine oil to lithium grease depending on bearing type.
It may not work out cheaper, as you would need to add oil to it as well.
Some folk have used slick 50 and found it gunked up after a while.?:eek:
Did they use it with oil?
I have seen a video of a bearing prepared with a different range of grease types and they spin the bearing and count revolutions etc. There was certainly a difference but this was on a bike bottom brake bearing!!:doh:
However it just shows that spinning performance does get affected depending on what you use. I favour oil rather than grease generally as I have had best results with this. As to the Sound quality affects - that is all in the ear off the beholder!:)
I have the AO oil in my Funk Sapphire bearing. It has not gunked up.
J7 only seems to sell quality products. It seems to suit my bearing well, but I would not use grease. I don’t think that is suited.
gunking up after new oil can just be that all the old gunk wasnt removed.
walpurgis
09-12-2023, 11:52
Depending on design, I favour a turntable with a spindle that rotates in 'skin' of oil that separates it from the main bearing wall, the main bearing forming a well for the lubricant, with a thrust pad or ball at the bottom. The only place that metal to metal (or ceramic etc) contact should occur is on the thrust pad or on the ball. I tend to use EP80 with a drop of STP or Wynn's, been doing that for fifty years on various turntables and never had a worn bearing.
There are greased bearings, but it's not an idea I like. Sticky grease is available, but it still displaces.
On my Thorens TD124s, I use the appropriate oil supplied by Schopper.
For my EMT930 I use the oil supplied by the current EMT agents (Studiotechnik Dutsch).
I would suggest you contact the manufacturer of the turntable in question and ask them what lubricant they would recommend.
Lubrication used with fast moving parts (such as engine gearboxes) may not be suitable for slow moving parts (such as turntables).
For my Thorens 125 I use the oil supplied by Pickwell Audio.
Regards
Beobloke
10-12-2023, 12:27
3-in-1
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
3-in-1
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Good old 3-in-1 and probably a huge deal cheaper than some of the snake oils out there?:lol:
Wakefield Turntables
10-12-2023, 18:24
For my 301 and 401 I use some oil I managed to purloin from Martin Bastin. I also use this oil for my refurbished Lenco GL75 bearings that I sell from time to time.
3-in-1 is just as good as anything else, I've used this on loads of TT's.
'3 in1' oil was developed for use on bicycle chains. These are relatively slow moving, so the oil should be OK for platter spindle bearings.
For the turntable motor it would be better to use sewing machine oil, as it is designed to lubricate fast moving parts.
I would personally class a TT bearing as a slow moving part, even at 78 RPM.
I would personally class a TT bearing as a slow moving part, even at 78 RPM.
Which is what I said in my last post.
After much deliberation I have decided to use oil on my turntable bearing as it sits in a brass oil bath bearing and really this is the most suitable lubricant and recommended by users and owners across the internet. I think grease would be too thick and as the bearing has so close a tolerance it would only need a very small amount of lubrication anyway.
Tomorrow I have cleared the day for the operation but will also clean and calibrate the turntable at the same time ensuring nothing is loose or defective. It has been about 3 years since I last did anything with it so its about time!:)
willbewill
04-01-2024, 18:15
SAE 30 synthetic compressor oil is a favourite of mine, especially for oilite bearings.
SAE 30 synthetic compressor oil is a favourite of mine, especially for oilite bearings.
I think it will be a synthetic oil I will be using as they are usually quite thin and need to be with an oil bath bearing with very close tolerances.
Wakefield Turntables
04-01-2024, 21:19
I did a little maintaince on the 301! It's amazing how fast goes by. Keep us updated with findings.
AJSki2fly
05-01-2024, 08:58
After much deliberation I have decided to use oil on my turntable bearing as it sits in a brass oil bath bearing and really this is the most suitable lubricant and recommended by users and owners across the internet. I think grease would be too thick and as the bearing has so close a tolerance it would only need a very small amount of lubrication anyway.
Tomorrow I have cleared the day for the operation but will also clean and calibrate the turntable at the same time ensuring nothing is loose or defective. It has been about 3 years since I last did anything with it so its about time!:)
I have used this on a couple of turntables and it works very well, you could add a little to some low friction SAE30 or similar. They use this stuff in racing engines.
https://www.team-zx1.com/extralube-zx1-micro-oil-metal-treatment.html
I have used this on a couple of turntables and it works very well, you could add a little to some low friction SAE30 or similar. They use this stuff in racing engines.
https://www.team-zx1.com/extralube-zx1-micro-oil-metal-treatment.html
Oils are definitely a science and technology in themselves. So many specialist products out there and applications. I have a range of oils and different types of grease I use on my bike and they are all manufactured in handmade batches with a secret set of ingredients? I know a fair bit of the technology is to use very low friction materials but also there are some that are used for waterproofing and making the oil viscosity such that it sticks to stuff with our being flung off.
I imagine car engine oils are as much about operating in various extreme heat environments as well as friction functionality. So when you look at many of the oils out there and start to go into detail you find there are many technical aspects of the oil that are not needed in a turntable bearing. In fact I would say they actually need to be fairly simple compared to the extreme applications found in automotive and other engineering applications?
Still do and always have used fine sewing machine oil, which has never clogged up on any of my turntables.
AJSki2fly
05-01-2024, 10:17
Oils are definitely a science and technology in themselves. So many specialist products out there and applications. I have a range of oils and different types of grease I use on my bike and they are all manufactured in handmade batches with a secret set of ingredients? I know a fair bit of the technology is to use very low friction materials but also there are some that are used for waterproofing and making the oil viscosity such that it sticks to stuff with our being flung off.
I imagine car engine oils are as much about operating in various extreme heat environments as well as friction functionality. So when you look at many of the oils out there and start to go into detail you find there are many technical aspects of the oil that are not needed in a turntable bearing. In fact I would say they actually need to be fairly simple compared to the extreme applications found in automotive and other engineering applications?
Yes I agree on that with respect to specialist applications. I have fount the ZX1 makes a significant difference in friction reduction on several TTs, and presumably noise as a result. I tested before and after by timing how long it took the platter to comet to rest from 33rpm and 45 rpm, and it was over twice as long to come to rest with the ZX1, so certainly made a difference. You only meed very small quantities so a small bottle of 5ml or 100ml is more than enough.
A few photos of todays work on the turntable.
Arm removed and ready to clean
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53444061081_21b802767f_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2pqEMoZ)BEEA62F6-0B29-4AF8-930C-C4C1F956AA02 (https://flic.kr/p/2pqEMoZ) by [/url], on Flickr
Oooh that's sharp!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53444474805_6f2b31e417_k.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/)8917E3F3-1750-4081-8795-62D3EFAE9667 (https://flic.kr/p/2pqGUoa) by , on Flickr
Platter removed showing integrated bearing spindle and ball bearing.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2pqA3e6]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53443135407_d726cf9744_k.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/)2B721B62-A8FB-4AD6-BA75-7BB7D6E43569 (https://flic.kr/p/2pqA3e6) by , on Flickr
This sits in a brass oil bath sleeve in the platter.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2pqENNC]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53444065816_76eefe57b3_k.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/[/url)4089AF60-1381-4BCB-9C33-619D4E4975D9 (https://flic.kr/p/2pqENNC) by J/url], on Flickr
Just a few drops..
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2pqFudr]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53444198393_0ff8faf11d_k.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/)687DE877-D510-4521-B60A-5D36914D7DCA (https://flic.kr/p/2pqFudr) by y (https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/), on Flickr
So what did I use...?
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53443132992_811e14d017_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2pqA2vs)6899271A-BCF1-4E28-984F-F8F924F0FB83 (https://flic.kr/p/2pqA2vs) by y (https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/), on Flickr
What do the manufacturer of your turntable recommend you use as a bearing lubricant?
What do the manufacturer of your turntable recommend you use as a bearing lubricant?
Motor oil.
Any particular kind?
30-40W. I used synthetic as it lasts long time without deteriorating. Also fairly thin so works well in the brass reservoir which pushes it up round the spindle.
I used it also on the motor spindle and everything is extremely quiet and runs very smooth indeed. In fact the motor and turntable turning are absolutely silent.
I will evaluate sound over the weekend but not expecting any change.:uhho:
Everything is back in situ and up and running but being a nerd I went to great lengths to put the turntable back in the system. Part of the cleaning and lubing exercise was to also lube the motor spindle and clean the platter circumference which I have not shown in the photos. Anyhow I popped the belt back on and set about getting the speed accurately with my Dr Freikert platter test record and speed app which works by recording a test tone. However I noticed two things. First the turntable belt made no noise when started, usual it makes a chirrup. Then when I set the speed up I got it a lot more accurate than I have ever done previously. Why was this?
Maybe it was the clean platter, maybe it was the cleaned bearing or the oiled motor shaft or a combination of all these? I don't know but whatever has happened has allowed the turntable to run more smoothly and thus more accurately.
Has this changed the sound. No.:rolleyes:
I am not sure a multigrade is the best choice, as at room temperatures you are likely to be at the "5W" viscosity.
A good SAE 30 or 40monograde would probably be better?
The differences between multigrade and monograde are shown here - https://wiki.anton-paar.com/en/engine-oil/
That is why I always use what the manufacturer of the TT recommends, rather than second guess what to use.
Also for my decks, which are all idler wheel designs, the bearing lubricant can be different to that used for the motor.
I can only think noise, speed and wear would be the issues when using the wrong time of oil.
My TT manufacturer uses either 40W motor oil or lithium grease depending on the bearing and whether its inverted or non inverted.
Yes, a mono grade, SAE rated oil.
You have used a 5W/30 multi grade, which at room temperature is not at the 30 rating.
SAE 30 and 40 is available relatively easily. I know what I would use. ;)
Spinning very smoothly with the 5W/30 multi grade. No Noise, no speed deviation.
Its not like its trying to chug through gritty mud!:lol:
However after last nights listening session I felt there was a little less "air" and ambience in some of the recordings. So I have decided to revert back to some Audio Origami oil which I used previously.
A wise move, in the long run.
The 5W (which is what you have at room temperature) is too thin.
I thought at first everything sounded OK but after longer period of critical listening I noticed recorded ambience and a few other key areas did not sound quite right.
So at least I have learned oils do make a difference to the sound - bizarre!
I am also a bit concerned having read that synthetic oils can harm sintered brass bushings. Not sure on this one? But there are a lot of additives in car engine oils so maybe some are problematic to brass?
There are obviously many different types of synthetic oils with varying properties but considering the pressure and heat involved with a turntable bearing I feel they may not be that suitable. Something more basic and maybe non synthetic could be better?
Found this interesting evaluation of the Audio Origami oil..
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=118436
I use thé AO booster oil. I see no reason to change.
I use thé AO booster oil. I see no reason to change.
I will be joining you Kev.
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