New listening room [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

rmcin626

28-10-2023, 12:56

Still a wee bit to go before it’s finished but my new listening room is beginning to take shape.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231028/bbafbe78d865bc9da3bbdf5bc120fd4b.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231028/fd45f16a440048c38d885081a69a8dd4.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231028/972671de1d17aa3e6cc550d1689a7e8d.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231028/3702e51e3f8bb751869de9e297db440e.jpg

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struth

28-10-2023, 14:59

coming along robin...:)

rmcin626

28-10-2023, 15:03

coming along robin...:)

Yeah a wee bit behind schedule but coming along

Mika K

03-11-2023, 14:04

Interesting to see what will be the outcome! ;)

rmcin626

03-11-2023, 14:23

Interesting to see what will be the outcome! ;)

The plaster work has just been finished, painting and flooring next.

Wakefield Turntables

03-11-2023, 18:56

That looks quite cosy. Looking forward to see what you do with the space.

rmcin626

04-11-2023, 08:40

That looks quite cosy. Looking forward to see what you do with the space.

As we have a decking area taking up about half the the back garden, we were limited on how large the garden room could be , as also have a shed taking up some more of the available space, the garden room is just under 5 mtr x 2.9 mtr internally .

struth

04-11-2023, 10:12

remember to take photos at each stage.. its great to look back in a few years and see it take shape

rmcin626

04-11-2023, 10:36

remember to take photos at each stage.. its great to look back in a few years and see it take shape

That’s the plan

Mika K

04-11-2023, 15:29

Have you been planning adding some acoustic treatment to the structures? With those you're actually able to acoustically make the space bigger and much better suited for listening..

rmcin626

04-11-2023, 15:35

Have you been planning adding some acoustic treatment to the structures? With those you're actually able to acoustically make the space bigger and much better suited for listening..

That might be something I should consider Mika

Barry

04-11-2023, 16:43

What are you planning to do about the glass doors? They look to be a hard reflective surface. Some heavy curtains perhaps?

Mika K

04-11-2023, 16:48

That might be something I should consider Mika
Based on my experience with few different rooms, would highly recommend it �� even some very simple and broadband acoustic treatments will make significant improvement.

rmcin626

04-11-2023, 17:45

What are you planning to do about the glass doors? They look to be a hard reflective surface. Some heavy curtains perhaps?

Probably Barry, will decide once i hear how everything sounds

rmcin626

04-11-2023, 17:47

Based on my experience with few different rooms, would highly recommend it �� even some very simple and broadband acoustic treatments will make significant improvement.

Any suggestions of products?

Mika K

04-11-2023, 18:13

I have successfully used products from Hofa and Vicoustic plus some Finnish brands for
panels like these..

https://www.ecophon.com/en/products/modular-ceilings/master/

https://www.netrauta.fi/seinapaneeli-jarnvik-glorio-269-3d-21x122x2600mm-musta-tammi?utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=s|pcrid|442885615152|pkw||pmt||pdv|m|&gclid=CjwKCAjw15eqBhBZEiwAbDomEkC0iuGRh2dU8owt4L1J 04vbCTSBsnTdVuYgJR3nYsKjFeEFFulTHxoCg1gQAvD_BwE

rmcin626

04-11-2023, 19:55

Mika K

05-11-2023, 07:08

Just ne careful �� One person here on Finland just recently built a new wall from proper materials behind the speakers and the system. This was very effective by measured performance. However he reported that it made room too damp taking the life away from music. So by trial and error he added some diffusers to the wall in critical places to overcome this issue. I might prefer little livelier room and more of diffusing instead of direct damping..

Jimbo

05-11-2023, 08:51

The most critical acoustic interface I found is the first reflection points. Unless you have massive bass issues and room nodes I would leave this alone. Obviously size of speaker and size of room has huge implications.

First reflection points are easy and cheap too sort out and I would definitely use absorption panels here rather than diffuser.

Personally I agree with Mika in that I prefer a slightly liver room than an over damped room. If you don't use Room EQW or any DSP etc the easiest way to asses is a few hand claps. The end of the room where my system is is fairly damped. Heavy furniture and heavy curtains with first reflection point panels. Towards the back of the room it is more lively but good to try and stop reflection point behind your head and listening position as this will smear the stereo image.

Good to factor all these points in when construction a listening room as it can have significant implications further down the road once you get your system set up and choose listening position.

Mika K

05-11-2023, 09:34

Indeed.

I might add some damped panel wall to the end of the room behind the speakers plus some diffusers. Then some absorption panels to the first reflection points of the side walls and possibly also the ceiling. Then the rest by heavy carpet, curtains and furniture. This should give the room and the system fairly safe starting point for building any system (perhaps excluding the dipole speakers).

Macca

05-11-2023, 10:05

There's no hard and fast rules with room tuning as there are just too many variables.

Loudspeaker performance and personal taste in presentation being the two biggest.

For example absorption at first reflection points may narrow the soundstage and if you want wide soundstage this will not be for you. But do the speakers have wide or narrow directivity? This will also affect that decision.

Personally I would not randomly build in any treatment to the construction as if it doesn't work out ripping it out will be a real pain. For a dedicated room where you can do what you like I would start by setting up with normal furnishing, do some extensive listening to adapt myself to the acoustic, and then consider treatments.

Hopefully there will be no low frequency problems so then dealing with the rest of the audio band will be a matter of taste. IME most situations will benefit from diffusion on the wall behind the speakers and absorption on the wall behind the listening position. But nothing about room treatment should be taken as gospel.

Jimbo

05-11-2023, 10:47

The great thing about room treatment is that you can adapt to your own listening preference.

Good point Martin about adapting to the acoustic first before adding treatment.

Macca

05-11-2023, 11:35

My own view is that as far as mid and high frequencies go ordinary furnishings should get 90 percent of the way there, but bass issues are a whole different ballgame.

One problem is the modern trend for minimalist living doesn't equate to 'ordinary furnishing' - no carpet, no curtains, no bookshelves, bare walls, no clutter etc. None of that helps sound quality. Those warm, inviting sounding systems of the 1970s sounded that way at least in part to the furnishing style of the times.

Lots of HF bouncing around is never pleasant even when just conducting a conversation with someone. We don't adapt to that. Regrettably many ascribe their 'brightness' problem to the electronics and/'or the loudspeakers and start trying to fix it with valves, or cables, or NOS DACs and so on, which doesn't work. (Okay, it can be that sometimes the loudspeakers are at least partly to blame).

My advice is always - get some stuff in your room!

Mika K

05-11-2023, 14:52

Wise words. Good luck with the project and keep the pics coming :)

rmcin626

05-12-2023, 15:14

Jimbo

05-12-2023, 15:22

I think the TT looks great in the middle.

struth

05-12-2023, 15:26

nice looking unit robin... whatever you like is way to go. meantime try it another way so it fits then decide

rmcin626

05-12-2023, 15:44

nice looking unit robin... whatever you like is way to go. meantime try it another way so it fits then decide

Got from it Ikea , very happy with it so far, I have swapped things around to have look prefer the turntable in middle but going to swap the Phono stage and Arcam over

rmcin626

05-12-2023, 15:45

I think the TT looks great in the middle.

Cheers, I agree

AJSki2fly

05-12-2023, 15:57

Well after several delays the room is nearly complete, just starting to set everything up again. When everything was on a rock I had no issues with cable lengths but there are now a couple of challenges.

Two choices

Leave the turntable in the middle and purchase some longer cables

Or move the amp to the middle.

Decisions decisions

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231205/16291b415a4a5a80e3d69dcae251f012.jpg

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Hi Robin, very envious of the dedicated listening room. looks good, if only I could do similar. :scratch:

One thing you might want to consider for the TT is this to get better oscillation, I have done so with mine and it gained slightly better clarity and improved soundstage separation and focus.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08X3L3MMP?ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_asin_title&th=1

use this under to stop slippage https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0042AHC6O?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_asin_title

I also put Phono stage and CD player on https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/aptitlig-butchers-block-bamboo-00233429/ with anti-slip under.

I had read up on this and quite a few on this and other forums do similar. It's not expensive and worth it IMHO.

rmcin626

05-12-2023, 16:01

Hi Robin, very envious of the dedicated listening room. looks good, if only I could do similar. :scratch:

One thing you might want to consider for the TT is this to get better oscillation, I have done so with mine and it gained slightly better clarity and improved soundstage separation and focus.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08X3L3MMP?ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_asin_title&th=1

use this under to stop slippage https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0042AHC6O?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_asin_title

I also put Phono stage and CD player on https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/aptitlig-butchers-block-bamboo-00233429/ with anti-slip under.

I had read up on this and quite a few on this and other forums do similar. It's not expensive and worth it IMHO.

many thanks Adrian, will have have a look at all your suggestions

rmcin626

09-12-2023, 15:00

Have settled on the turntable in the middle, well nearly https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231209/d876f476571f4f42ed7bc48532ed5cea.jpg

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Barry

09-12-2023, 16:11

How is it all sounding Robin? Or are you not yet at that stage.

rmcin626

09-12-2023, 16:31

How is it all sounding Robin? Or are you not yet at that stage.

Sounding quite good so far Barry, now that everything has warmed up a bit after being boxed for a few months, one problem is that the Arcam cd drawer wont open

Lawrence001

09-12-2023, 18:30

Have settled on the turntable in the middle, well nearly https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231209/d876f476571f4f42ed7bc48532ed5cea.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWhy is it not in the middle? Is the amp interfering in some way?

Macca

09-12-2023, 19:06

needs a rug to tie it together.

rmcin626

09-12-2023, 19:32

Why is it not in the middle? Is the amp interfering in some way?

Because of the length of the cables from turntable to phono stage, will probably drill a new whole for the cables.

rmcin626

09-12-2023, 19:32

Why is it not in the middle? Is the amp interfering in some way?

It’s on the shopping list

Barry

09-12-2023, 20:36

needs a rug to tie it together.

Ah - 'The Big Lewbowski'. ;)

Barry

09-12-2023, 20:51

Ah - 'The Big Lewbowski'. ;)
My reply is not as flippant as it might seem. Your new room looks to have many hard and hence reflective surfaces. A rug on the floor will help, as will heavy curtains for the glass door.

rmcin626

09-12-2023, 21:05

My reply is not as flippant as it might seem. Your new room looks to have many hard and hence reflective surfaces. A rug on the floor will help, as will heavy curtains for the glass door.

Thats something we will be looking at , as there are two doors plus a full length window , and a rug

rmcin626

09-12-2023, 21:06

Ah - 'The Big Lewbowski'. ;)

My son gave a framed poster which will soon be on one of the walls.

Jimbo

09-12-2023, 21:08

Looks great set up. TT definitely looks just right in the middle.

How does the room sound?

rmcin626

09-12-2023, 21:35

Looks great set up. TT definitely looks just right in the middle.

How does the room sound?

That s a difficult question as its a very different room, I was a bit worried at first as everything had been boxed for a few months and I thought the sound was a little laboured but after a few hours everything seemed to be improving, the glass windows will have effect but we will deal with that.

I played a few of my fav tracks , and was very impressed not perfect but much better than my previous listening room.

struth

10-12-2023, 07:58

Sounding quite good so far Barry, now that everything has warmed up a bit after being boxed for a few months, one problem is that the Arcam cd drawer wont open

might be a paperclip hole for drawer.

struth

10-12-2023, 08:02

might be a paperclip hole for drawer.

worth unplugging and popping lid off. then try it again. see if anthing obvious shows. wire or plug out. cd left in the tray even...it happens lol

Macca

10-12-2023, 09:38

I played a few of my fav tracks , and was very impressed not perfect but much better than my previous listening room.

That's a win then.

I would get a thick rug and position it so it is right up against the base of the speakers to kill some of the floor bounce.

rmcin626

10-12-2023, 09:46

That's a win then.

I would get a thick rug and position it so it is right up against the base of the speakers to kill some of the floor bounce.

Sounds like a plan

rmcin626

10-12-2023, 09:47

might be a paperclip hole for drawer.

No hole unfortunately

rmcin626

10-12-2023, 09:48

worth unplugging and popping lid off. then try it again. see if anthing obvious shows. wire or plug out. cd left in the tray even...it happens lol

Will give that a go in the next day or so.

rmcin626

13-12-2023, 13:40

Hi Robin, very envious of the dedicated listening room. looks good, if only I could do similar. :scratch:

One thing you might want to consider for the TT is this to get better oscillation, I have done so with mine and it gained slightly better clarity and improved soundstage separation and focus.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08X3L3MMP?ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_asin_title&th=1

use this under to stop slippage https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0042AHC6O?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_asin_title

I also put Phono stage and CD player on https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/aptitlig-butchers-block-bamboo-00233429/ with anti-slip under.

I had read up on this and quite a few on this and other forums do similar. It's not expensive and worth it IMHO.

Hi Adrian, I have a couple shelves left over from the cabinet as I am using the cupboard on either side for vinyl, so I might try them under the turntable and amp.

struth

13-12-2023, 14:55

i used big slate table setters under mine. hope your enjoying your new room.

rmcin626

13-12-2023, 15:29

i used big slate table setters under mine. hope your enjoying your new room.

Thanks Grant, yes the room is great still a few records to unbox, and waiting for a tracking force scale to arrive , tracking is a few bit heavy I think

struth

13-12-2023, 18:35

If your stuck I should have mine still

rmcin626

13-12-2023, 19:14

If your stuck I should have mine still

Thanks for that, I had one but no longer working, changed the batteries but no joy, thought I had ordered a replacement from Amazon but had only ordered the batteries should be here tomorrow.

the vocals sound fine but the music is sluggish at times, been advised it’s probably the tracking.

rmcin626

04-05-2024, 12:56

After several weeks without a working turntable, things are now looking how imagined
https://i.ibb.co/DLR5YSf/IMG-2672.jpg (https://ibb.co/HXHnCkT)

Barry

04-05-2024, 13:23

Looking good Robin - how does it sound?

rmcin626

04-05-2024, 13:26

Looking good Robin - how does it sound?

Really impressed so far Barry, after a a couple of annoying issues, currently listening to a Staple Singers track, never sounded better

Barry

04-05-2024, 13:37

That's good. I just wondered if the speakers should have been moved forward a little.

Does the TV sound go via the system?

rmcin626

04-05-2024, 13:45

That's good. I just wondered if the speakers should have been moved forward a little.

Does the TV sound go via the system?

You maybe correct about the speakers, I will experiment, I sit a bout 2 meters from them. No the TV is not connect at present to the system, I don’t use it very often , its only a cheap one , in case I wanted to watch the news or having something in the background.

Macca

04-05-2024, 13:46

Looks tidy. I think I would also try and get the speakers standing proud of the unit by moving one or the other but I guess that's not possible for some reason?

rmcin626

04-05-2024, 13:50

Looks tidy. I think I would also try and get the speakers standing proud of the unit by moving one or the other but I guess that's not possible for some reason?

I can bring them out about a foot anymore and one of them will be blocking the door.

rmcin626

04-05-2024, 13:53

Looks tidy. I think I would also try and get the speakers standing proud of the unit by moving one or the other but I guess that's not possible for some reason?

Just had another look, the next time my son is over we could move unit back a bit, doing that and moving speakers forward might help.

Macca

04-05-2024, 14:02

Just had another look, the next time my son is over we could move unit back a bit, doing that and moving speakers forward might help.

Looks like you could get them a bit further forward now. Even if they are only an inch in front of the unit I think that would be better but as always you have to try and see with these things.

rmcin626

04-05-2024, 14:11

Looks like you could get them a bit further forward now. Even if they are only an inch in front of the unit I think that would be better but as always you have to try and see with these things.

Will try it out asap.