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twelvebears
15-09-2010, 17:22
I thought I should just draw people's attention to what looks to be a fine example with the added advantage of not having to fight for it through ebay...

Sony CDP X55ES CD Player. Black with the desirable rosewood side cheeks and in absolutely perfect condition. Bespoke proprietary build makes this an incredible stand alone transport with full copper chassis, optical digital output, or fixed and variable analogue options. Includes all original packing, manual and remote. (£1400) Only £395.

In Audio Emotion's pre-owned section.

http://www.audioemotion.co.uk/pre_owned.php

Just thought I mention it in case anyone was interested.

I would have had it myself but I'm very happy with my SCD-777ES

p.s. Sorry about my spelling of Japanese....

Marco
15-09-2010, 17:53
Very nice..........

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/9823/1278731192.jpg (http://img718.imageshack.us/i/1278731192.jpg/)

It looks very similar to my X-777ES :)

They don't make 'em like that anymore (or even anything near like that), so if anyone wants a proper CD player with which to realise the CD format's true potential, then snap it up A.S.A.P - it's a total bargain!

Then send it to Mark from Audiocom for some 'judicious tweakage', bringing the internal components up to date, and end up with one of the best disc spinners you could possibly have.

Marco.

Beechwoods
15-09-2010, 18:55
Gorgeous! Those were the days when CD Players were built like real hifi!

Reid Malenfant
15-09-2010, 19:06
Yes, i guess it does look quite nice if you like that sort of thing ;) The fluorescent display would put me off though, seen too many of them get rather dim segments or even dead ones after a period of time :doh: Availablity of these as replacements would need to be investigated imo if it was me buying one.

Compared to most Japanese stuff though they were built very well indeed, can't fault them on that score :)

Jonboy
15-09-2010, 19:22
I heard one of these recently on the end of my Dunc dac, very nice sound indeed, sounded better to me than the Electrocompaniet EMC1 UP that was in my mates system much to his i think astonishment

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7210

Marco
15-09-2010, 19:23
I agree about the display, Mark. However, it's the quality of the transport mechanism that's the big seller here, that and the superb build quality overall (and huge PSUs used).

All this is of fundamental necessity to create a CDP that does justice to the CD format. Today's mass-produced lightweight monstrosities, fitted with cheapo plastic DVD-ROM mechs are an affront to superly engineered units like the Sony.

If the mech's in good nick, it should last for a very long time indeed. The one in my X-777ES is still going strongly (since it was made in 1990), and it's in use for around 6-8 hours a day!

Overall, the X55ES would make a great donor unit for Audiocom to do its stuff and transform it into a veritable giant-killer! :)

Marco.

Marco
15-09-2010, 19:30
I heard one of these recently on the end of my Dunc dac, very nice sound indeed, sounded better to me than the Electrocompaniet EMC1 UP that was in my mates system much to his i think astonishment

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7210

Now that's very interesting, Jon! :)

Marco.

twelvebears
15-09-2010, 19:39
I must admit that £400 I'm very tempted to nab it myself.....

Reid Malenfant
15-09-2010, 19:40
<snip> However, it's the quality of the transport mechanism that's the big seller here, that and the superb build quality overall (and huge PSUs used).

All that is of fundamental necessity to create a CDP that does justice to the CD format. Today's mass-produced lightweight monstrosities, fitted with cheapo plastic DVD-ROM mechs are an affront to superly engineered units like the Sony.

Marco.
Yes i'm in full agreement with you on this score ;) Nothing like an oversized PSU just chugging along with the knowledge that it'll never be under any strain what so ever :eyebrows:

The chassis was very well built to from what i remember so it all adds up to something pretty decent & like you say, miles better than just about any other japanese kit available :)

Jonboy
15-09-2010, 20:37
Now that's very interesting, Jon! :)

Marco.


I think the EMC I up has a sony mech in it, nice mech, is it simular to yours ?

DSJR
15-09-2010, 20:51
We weren't Sony dealers by this time, so I have to ask - was the 55ES up from the 555ES? I knew the latter very well...

twelvebears
15-09-2010, 21:05
We weren't Sony dealers by this time, so I have to ask - was the 55ES up from the 555ES? I knew the latter very well...

TVK used to make working this kind of thing easy but the new site doesn't seem to have a lot of the info it once did.

I believe it was from the same 'family' of players yes.

Rare Bird
15-09-2010, 22:22
i prefer the 555ESD

Marco
15-09-2010, 22:29
Agreed, dude. I think the 555 is better again, as is the 777 I have. The point I was making is that vintage players of this calibre piss all over most of the bollocks made nowadays! :)

Marco.

Rare Bird
15-09-2010, 22:37
Agreed, dude. I think the 555 is better again, as is the 777 I have. The point I was making is that vintage players of this calibre piss all over most of the bollocks made nowadays! :)

Marco.

Theres a 555ES & 555ESD different machines

Marco
15-09-2010, 23:16
What the difference, out of curiosity? :)

Marco.

DSJR
16-09-2010, 08:36
The same machine often carried different model numbers depending on market.

I think we were let down in the UK often as some interim models skipped these shores altogether back then as I remember.

The 555 was a bit brightly lit as many Sony's of the time were, but sensibly integrated it was one of the true greats. The marantz CD12/94 family, of which mine is a member, were a bit juicy and softer in balance I thought.

I think the "sound qualilty" of the better mid priced modern players is at least as good, but of course these machines are nothing like as solidly made.

Marco
16-09-2010, 09:47
I think the "sound qualilty" of the better mid priced modern players is at least as good, but of course these machines are nothing like as solidly made.


I'd agree with that, Dave.

However, today's mid-priced players may sound as good compared to one of the Sony players above in stock form, but when the latter are judiciously modified, and the sonic restriction of aging out-of-spec capacitors removed (amongst other internal component upgrades carried out), it becomes a whole different ball game, and in my experience modern players are comprehensively outperformed (simply because the fundamental 'raw ingredients' are generally of a much higher standard in the best vintage players), thus one ends up with a genuine hi-end machine 'on the cheap', able to rival the very best.

It's all about starting off with the highest quality ingredients.... Marrying the best vintage players with the best new technology in terms of modern components = having the best of BOTH worlds! Personally, as a perfectionist, I hate compromises ;)

90% of today's CD players aren't engineered to last, or even built with the same 'cost no object' design principles, as were largely the vintage Sonys mentioned above during the heyday of CD, when manufacturers strove for perfection and had a customer base willing to pay for the privilege of owning the best; in fact quite the opposite, they are 'built to a price' under the premise that the heyday of CD is long since gone and customers nowadays (out with of the most devoted) are satisfied with something adequate rather than exceptional, mainly perhaps because they've never experienced 'exceptional' to appreciate it.

My advice for people, as far as digital goes these days, is to forget all about CDPs and go the route of computer streaming with a high quality DAC, unless you have a huge CD collection, want to hear it at its best, and don't have the time or inclination to rip them all to a hard drive.

In that case, either fork out at least £8-10k on a modern 'hi-end' player (yes it costs that much to do it right with a commercial product these days), which has genuinely been designed to get the best out of the CD format (Esoteric players come to mind in that respect), or for maximum SPPV, go the vintage/modification route and get the same results (or better) for a fraction of the cost.

*That* is the way to do it, if you love digital audio and want to hear it at its best! :cool:

Marco.

Techno Commander
16-09-2010, 11:45
I just love the "battleship" construction used in these old heavyweight players. As Marco suggests, one of these with a few hundred quid thrown at it should produce something that will wipe the floor with almost any non high end/esoteric CD player built today.

DSJR
16-09-2010, 13:25
The tiny manufacturers can't do the battleship construction that Sony and Philips could achieve in quantity back then.

You know Marco, I really don't believe you have to spend £8000+ on a CD player to get the best, unless jewellery finish is important. DAC chipsets are cheaper than ever and the only decent mechs available for CD only are very thin on the ground. I believe Philips still does one with cast chassis and everyone else uses a DVD/CD-Rom drive derivative I understand.

I've been very reliably informed that the Sony "555" players were different despite sharing the same basic number. The "555" I knew best was the ESD version and very many were sold in the UK. There appears to be a later one entirely (by two or three years) which is a different machine.

Marco
16-09-2010, 14:29
Hi Dave,


The tiny manufacturers can't do the battleship construction that Sony and Philips could achieve in quantity back then.


Indeed, but neither do Sony and Philips anymore in the design of their current CDPs, so it's not just that small manufacturers can't afford to design 'battleship-build' players, it's also because large manufacturers don't bother anymore because the demand isn't there, and so quality suffers yet again as the Jap electronic giants pander to the needs of the mass-market.

It's yet another example in audio of standards having fallen in the pursuit of convenience/chasing the 'latest and greatest' new technology (when often in terms of out-and-out audio performance it is far from that)...


You know Marco, I really don't believe you have to spend £8000+ on a CD player to get the best, unless jewellery finish is important. DAC chipsets are cheaper than ever and the only decent mechs available for CD only are very thin on the ground. I believe Philips still does one with cast chassis and everyone else uses a DVD/CD-Rom drive derivative I understand.


It's just a ballpark figure, Dave. However, the Philips mech of which you speak is merely 'ok' but nothing really special compared to top-notch mechs of old, the likes of which you'll find in my 1989/1990 vintage Sony X-777ES or the 55ES, shown earlier.

What I'm talking about in terms of state of the art these days, CD transport-wise, is the Teac VRDS Neo unit shown here:


http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9474/ux1vrdsen.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/i/ux1vrdsen.jpg/)

Just look at it, solid diecast metal and built like a brick shithouse! That's what is necessary for musical information on CD to be read (and thus processed via the DAC) as absolutely accurately as possible, and which cannot be achieved with inferior transport mechanisms, certainly the plastic DVD-ROM shite used largely nowadays! :rolleyes:

More info: http://www.esoteric.jp/technology/vrdsneo/indexe.html


...and which is featured in the likes of the Esoteric P-05 CD/SACD transport, shown here:

http://esoteric.teac.com/transports/p-05/

...with matching DAC: http://esoteric.teac.com/dacs/d-05/

That's 'hi-end' at its best, with the money being spent on foo-free solid engineering principles, with real quality going on 'under the hood', as opposed to the 'all fur coat and no knickers' approach of so much 'hi-end' equipment today, which flatters to deceive.

I believe the cost of each unit is around £4.5k, hence my estimate of approx £8-10k to do justice to what CD is truly capable of with a modern player.

Based on experience, it would take something of that calibre to rival my vintage Audiocom-modified Sony CDP/DAC. Anything less than that is just simply no contest!

Marco.

Techno Commander
16-09-2010, 17:39
That is a sexy looking mech.


'all fur coat and no knickers'

Might not be any good for CD players, but it is exactly how I like my women.:):eyebrows::eyebrows::eek:

Reid Malenfant
16-09-2010, 17:48
Just look at it, solid diecast metal and built like a brick shithouse!
Sounds like my Krell, all 3 stone of it :eek: :eyebrows:

DSJR
16-09-2010, 17:54
Just make sure your Krell has inside what it's supposed to have. Has it ever been serviced and if so, where did it go?

anthonyTD
16-09-2010, 18:15
Just make sure your Krell has inside what it's supposed to have. Has it ever been serviced and if so, where did it go?
?
explain yourself sir!:eyebrows:
anthony,TD...

Reid Malenfant
16-09-2010, 18:28
Just make sure your Krell has inside what it's supposed to have. Has it ever been serviced and if so, where did it go?
Yes, it does have a proper Philips CDM-3 transport :lol:

Not sure if it's ever been serviced tbh but it never misses a beat & reads every disc i own (CDRs included), never skips & search is as fast as you could wish for. The LED display also works 100%, these are known to be problematic & known to fail.

It also sounds like the thing cost £10,000 which i believe it actually did back in the early 90s :eek:

It's mint & had very little use from what i gathered from the seller, the former i can testify to ;) The latter could be correct considering the whole transports perfect functionality.

Oh, by the way, if you weren't refering to the CDM-3 transport then like Anthony i'd also be interested in what you were refering to :scratch:

Apologies for going off topic :)

Jonboy
16-09-2010, 20:11
My Micromega runs the Phillips CDM mech, i think thry retailed at around £1600 way back when circa 1990, thats a transport only as well, it has a funny 5 minutes now and again and refuses to read some cd's initially but on the whole it's pretty good, don't forget to put the puck on or else you get a frisbee :doh:

twelvebears
17-09-2010, 14:57
Probably a good thing for my wallet that someone has bought it because I think I was about to...

Ali Tait
17-09-2010, 15:18
I'd agree with that, Dave.

However, today's mid-priced players may sound as good compared to one of the Sony players above in stock form, but when the latter are judiciously modified, and the sonic restriction of aging out-of-spec capacitors removed (amongst other internal component upgrades carried out), it becomes a whole different ball game, and in my experience modern players are comprehensively outperformed (simply because the fundamental 'raw ingredients' are generally of a much higher standard in the best vintage players), thus one ends up with a genuine hi-end machine 'on the cheap', able to rival the very best.

It's all about starting off with the highest quality ingredients.... Marrying the best vintage players with the best new technology in terms of modern components = having the best of BOTH worlds! Personally, as a perfectionist, I hate compromises ;)

90% of today's CD players aren't engineered to last, or even built with the same 'cost no object' design principles, as were largely the vintage Sonys mentioned above during the heyday of CD, when manufacturers strove for perfection and had a customer base willing to pay for the privilege of owning the best; in fact quite the opposite, they are 'built to a price' under the premise that the heyday of CD is long since gone and customers nowadays (out with of the most devoted) are satisfied with something adequate rather than exceptional, mainly perhaps because they've never experienced 'exceptional' to appreciate it.

My advice for people, as far as digital goes these days, is to forget all about CDPs and go the route of computer streaming with a high quality DAC, unless you have a huge CD collection, want to hear it at its best, and don't have the time or inclination to rip them all to a hard drive.

In that case, either fork out at least £8-10k on a modern 'hi-end' player (yes it costs that much to do it right with a commercial product these days), which has genuinely been designed to get the best out of the CD format (Esoteric players come to mind in that respect), or for maximum SPPV, go the vintage/modification route and get the same results (or better) for a fraction of the cost.

*That* is the way to do it, if you love digital audio and want to hear it at its best! :cool:

Marco.
Yep ,agreed Marco.I've heard your dac and it is very good indeed,though as I've said before,it bloody well should be given what you've spent on it!

Reid Malenfant
18-09-2010, 11:30
don't forget to put the puck on or else you get a frisbee :doh:
:lolsign:

Funny you mention that now i think about it ;)

When i first received the DT10 i opened the draw to put a disc in & test it & let out a rather loud "where the hell is the puck". Please feel free to substitute some other swear word for "hell" :eyebrows:

A quick blast with a torch inside the deck revealed that it's inside & lowers onto the mechanism as soon as the draw closes :doh: