View Full Version : What We Fight Against
The High End Store. It's very funny, but more to the point I've had conversations like this many times and I've long since given up giving advice to non-audiophiles :)
ZCBe7-6rw4M
Techno Commander
14-09-2010, 19:39
Hmmmm, one box eh?
:)
Didnt we do that 30 years ago?
http://www.radiohier.com/galleries/blaster/HITACHI%20TRK-8290.jpg
Took me back a good few years to my innocence and naivety :eek: ... Hopefully, maturity has helped me see sense..
All I have against the "Wave" radio is the direct selling while maintaining huge purchase cost and profit for the manufacturer. As a modern interpretation of a 1940's-1060's table-radio, it works well enough with a rich tone which impresses. I found the bigger, taller one extremely boomy though.
Mind you, I'm stunned that HiFi companies haven't done something better and cheaper by now. All the alternatives are very much more expensive I think - I don't know if the B&W units are any good and the Meridian thingy is still far too dear, despite the price being slashed I understand..
Steve Eddy
14-09-2010, 22:20
The High End Store. It's very funny, but more to the point I've had conversations like this many times and I've long since given up giving advice to non-audiophiles :)
HA!
Yeah, saw that a while back. Hilarious. In a way, it kind of pokes fun at both sides.
se
Steve Eddy
14-09-2010, 22:21
Didnt we do that 30 years ago?
Yeah. And even better, you could take it with you to the beach! :lol:
se
Steve Eddy
14-09-2010, 22:25
Mind you, I'm stunned that HiFi companies haven't done something better and cheaper by now.
I don't see how you could do it better AND cheaper.
Slave labor in China can only get you so far. You'd also need a rather large economy of scale and that has some huge up front costs.
se
Steve Eddy
14-09-2010, 22:30
Oops. Missed this one.
All I have against the "Wave" radio is the direct selling while maintaining huge purchase cost and profit for the manufacturer.
The profits aren't huge. Or rather the margins aren't. Don't forget, Bose spends a truck load of money on marketing and advertising. It's the volume of sales that make it profitable, not huge margins.
se
Took me back a good few years to my innocence and naivety :eek: ... Hopefully, maturity has helped me see sense..
All I have against the "Wave" radio is the direct selling while maintaining huge purchase cost and profit for the manufacturer. As a modern interpretation of a 1940's-1060's table-radio, it works well enough with a rich tone which impresses. I found the bigger, taller one extremely boomy though.
Mind you, I'm stunned that HiFi companies haven't done something better and cheaper by now. All the alternatives are very much more expensive I think - I don't know if the B&W units are any good and the Meridian thingy is still far too dear, despite the price being slashed I understand..
It has been done,both better and cheaper. Cambridge Soundworks modle 88CD by Henry Kloss.
http://www.theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5733
I don't see how you could do it better AND cheaper.
Slave labor in China can only get you so far. You'd also need a rather large economy of scale and that has some huge up front costs.
se
In the UK, the "Wave" series of products sell direct to the consumer and never via a Bose dealer..
The little Denon DM3/30 series costs around the same, the main unit is superb with preamp outputs too and the little Mission sourced (originaly) speakers were fine. had the things been presented more simply in a single stylish box (with extra long ports and subtle eq to aid bass), I'm sure it would have been cheaper. I mean, if you buy big quantities, I've seen Chinese made active speakers that look very similar to commercially available £400 ones for £60pr tops ex factory. I suspect the Wave is made by the tens of thousands at a time (?) so wouldn't cost a huge amount to put together. The mouldings would be cheap in that quantity, the drive units are a very few quid each, the credit card remote is the cheapest type they can use imo and the CD drive and electronics can't be more than a few dollars each either.
Just my thoughts as a (now) outsider. There's making a living and there's making a killing in my view. Sadly, what's left of our domestic audio industry isn't really aware of the difference and carries on the same old way twenty years after the writing was on the wall.
Come back Rega, all is forgiven - even their £6K CD player is a bargain when compared to inferior £15K+ machines apparently.....
anthonyTD
15-09-2010, 09:08
brilliant, just brilliant!:lol::lol::lol:
say's it all realy!:)
anthony...
Steve Eddy
15-09-2010, 16:32
In the UK, the "Wave" series of products sell direct to the consumer and never via a Bose dealer..
The little Denon DM3/30 series costs around the same, the main unit is superb with preamp outputs too and the little Mission sourced (originaly) speakers were fine. had the things been presented more simply in a single stylish box (with extra long ports and subtle eq to aid bass), I'm sure it would have been cheaper. I mean, if you buy big quantities, I've seen Chinese made active speakers that look very similar to commercially available £400 ones for £60pr tops ex factory. I suspect the Wave is made by the tens of thousands at a time (?) so wouldn't cost a huge amount to put together. The mouldings would be cheap in that quantity, the drive units are a very few quid each, the credit card remote is the cheapest type they can use imo and the CD drive and electronics can't be more than a few dollars each either.
Just my thoughts as a (now) outsider. There's making a living and there's making a killing in my view.
But you're just looking at the surface and only considering the basic cost to manufacture versus the selling price. That doesn't tell you what the company's profit is.
As I said previously, Bose spends a ton of money on advertising. They advertise in a wide variety of major print publications as well as on radio and television. Their advertising budget is probably larger than the next ten audio manufacturers combined.
So just because they're selling a cheap plastic box for $500 doesn't mean they're making hundreds of dollars of profit on each sale. Much if not most of that $500 is probably going into their advertising budget. And then you've got overhead, product support, etc. before you can even start talking about profit.
Bose isn't the large corporation that it is because it's making obscene profits on the products it sells. They're the large corporation that they are because of the volume of their sales. And that's a result of advertising.
Sure, the shelves at Wal-Mart are littered with various audio electronics that don't cost any more to make than a Bose Wave Radio and sell for a fraction of what a Wave Radio sells for. But the companies that make them don't spend any money to speak of advertising those products. They get their sales volumes from being cheap and riding on Wal-Mart's coattails.
se
Nevertheless, Bose use cheap materials and manufacturing to create a poorly performing product and then use heavy advertising to make the sale to a target audience who don't know any better.
Their marketing budget is undoubtedly huge what with advertising, shops and all the training/brainwashing required. However, their unit cost at such volumes is very low so they are still raking it in in terms of profit margin £ if not %.
Steve Eddy
15-09-2010, 17:19
Nevertheless, Bose use cheap materials and manufacturing to create a poorly performing product and then use heavy advertising to make the sale to a target audience who don't know any better.
True enough.
But then, look at some of the cable manufacturers out there. :lol:
Their marketing budget is undoubtedly huge what with advertising, shops and all the training/brainwashing required. However, their unit cost at such volumes is very low so they are still raking it in in terms of profit margin £ if not %.
I don't know that their profit margin's any higher than most.
se
Regardless of which side of the fence you find yourself on in this debate, it isn't going to make the product any better. It's dire, as is demonstrated by the amount of Bose WaveRadio's going cheap in the classifieds... :doh:
Sorry guys, but Bose annoy me. They have the expertise and clout to produce world class products, yet they sell Tat, at audiophile prices I might add!!! Go figure... :rolleyes:
Disclaimer: This is my personal opinion of course, others are welcome to disagree...
Jac Hawk
29-12-2010, 23:58
Regardless of which side of the fence you find yourself on in this debate, it isn't going to make the product any better. It's dire, as is demonstrated by the amount of Bose WaveRadio's going cheap in the classifieds... :doh:
Sorry guys, but Bose annoy me. They have the expertise and clout to produce world class products, yet they sell Tat, at audiophile prices I might add!!! Go figure... :rolleyes:
Disclaimer: This is my personal opinion of course, others are welcome to disagree...
Don't think you'll find many folks arguing with you here.
People who buy Bose, buy the badge not the quality of the sound there products produce, they are told by the media that Bose is great, plus almost everyone has heard of them so it's easy to impress you're mates at how great your not so great stereo is cos they've heard of them and know the prices bose charge. At the end of the day people who care about the music avoid bose.
Ali Tait
30-12-2010, 01:51
A friend has one. I think it sounds pretty good for what it is.
The Vinyl Adventure
30-12-2010, 02:54
Roberts sound 53 is a cd player dab/fm radio iPod dock and sounds basically pretty decent for £279.99 ... Give me a good reason to buy a Bose over that... Bose clever marketing doesn't count as an answer ...
You know, this chap moris who used to work for audio t round the corner from me got so fed up with people coming in asking for Bose they started stocking it ... The irony ... They coulndt get the stuff that people wanted because it wasn't available to them as a shop ... The stuff that Bose Market the most is the stuff you can only buy direct from them ... ... . ... ... You can't compare this stuff in a shop (as far as I know) with anything else ... ... ...
Hypnotoad
16-02-2011, 22:29
If you go to places like Fry's Electronics here in Houston they have a "Bose Theater" which is basically a room with a Bose Lifestyle System in it. They pretty much lock you all in and go through a set routine with special tracks to highlight how "good" the system sounds. And tell you why other systems are not as good as Bose.
I am told they have special control amps hidden in back to make it sound better and the speakers are not the ones that actually come with the unit.
This might be hearsay but they seduce people into buying there products with this type of smoke and mirrors type show.
hifi_dave
16-02-2011, 22:56
Many, many years ago, I went to a Hi-Fi exhibition and was enticed into the Bose room by the huge volume and bass kick even from outside the room.
When I got through the throng and into the room I encountered their new (at the time) 901 speakers on stands and an incredible, lifelike wall of sound. The music was new to me and I asked about the record and was told that it was an 'ordinary' record and assured that the equipment playing was 'normal domestic', just the amp on show and the speakers.
On closer inspection (when the rep's back was turned) the LP was the very first Sheffield Lab direct cut of Lincoln Mayorga. Before this time, these records were unknown and not available in GB.
I then took a quick peep under the large tabelecloth to see a rack of Pro power amps and a couple of large bass bins. So much for a 'domestic' system.
This was probably 35 years ago and Bose were devious even then...:eyebrows:
ursus262
08-07-2011, 21:29
But then, look at some of the cable manufacturers out there. :lol:
Quite!
Audioman
02-08-2011, 21:51
Sounds Expensive have closed in Rugby. Once a good specialist but avoided once he put Bose products in the window. Nuff said ! Owner has cleared off to run a small Micro-brewrey apparantley.
Before you kill yourself, could you please validate my parking ? :lol:
Richardl
27-08-2011, 13:06
The High End Store. It's very funny, but more to the point I've had conversations like this many times and I've long since given up giving advice to non-audiophiles :)
ZCBe7-6rw4M
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
freefallrob
05-09-2011, 12:41
Terrific stuff! :-)
Horses for courses - If folks needs are for a small single box box cd/clock/radio/mp3 player that looks stylish and has a brand name for a few hundred quid then why shouldn't they buy the Bose? After all, it's their money and their choice and not everyone's underlining requirement is sonic reproduction of the highest order.
Same as everything - if there's a market for it, it sells and if it sells there's a market for it.
There's no need for audiophile snobbery, it is what it is.
Not snobbery, Anthony, just poor quality over-priced crap masquerading as hi-fi. I hate seeing anyone waste their money on it when they could have so much more enjoyment.
Not snobbery, Anthony, just poor quality over-priced crap masquerading as hi-fi. I hate seeing anyone waste their money on it when they could have so much more enjoyment.
No you're quite right, snobbery was the wrong word. But it's all relative as I say, for example - A superb meal to you may well be a pile of shit to a food connoisseur, ie, If 'audio' is your 'thing' then that's fair enough but it doesn't mean that something 'lesser' it's not 'superb' to another.
As for "so much more enjoyment" - Again it's all relative, some listen to music as a 'fill' whilst doing the ironing or something to awake you in the morning and nothing else, to me, that's where the 'Wave' fits in perfectly.
Of course, I have a similar opinion on Bose but that would not stop me from buying a 'Wave' for the kitchen (to which I think is the common placement) as it does what it needs to - BGM.
Ant
Ali Tait
05-11-2011, 00:56
Yep, my mate has one in the kitchen. Not saying it's hi fi, but it sounds fine.
Hi Anthony,
Whilst I take your point, mate, lighten up - the sketch is just a bit of fun! :eyebrows:
Marco.
bobbasrah
05-11-2011, 08:34
Comical right enough, and pretty much true of entrenchment on both sides. However, Bose are not the only brand to manipulate the psyche of prospective buyers by successfull advertising and hype.
Ipods were good but despite better devices in the marketplace became the cult defacto mp3 player.
Linn made good turntables but were elevated to mystic status against all comers, etc..
Marketing is extremely powerful, but once it becomes embedded in the consumer's mind, it is a licence to make money. Bose are no worse than many, and continue to succeed..
I recently had a hard time explaining to my daughter that for the same money she was prepared to spend on Bose earbuds, she could have a very fine set of Klipsch or Sennheisers etc which sound quality was superb by comparison. Bose were used by all but a few of her fellow students (who equally lusted for Bose), and were therefore the "best" by communal agreement. Only when I pointed her to a few independent reviews on the net to read for herself did the logic dawn, but the group prejudice still prevails...
A workmate a while back insisted on wearing enclosed (wireless?) noise-cancelling cans so he could listen to his mp3 player on the move. The fact that these were Bose somehow diluted the fact he stuck out like a sore thumb, and looked like a lost air traffic controller in a suit wandering the airport lounge. The name emblazoned on the shells made it more of a fashion statement, until the batteries died.
It is that sense of belonging to the club that sells some stuff, so the badge culture still prevails, and will always be exploited.
ie - Bang for buck is not on equal terms fighting embedded prejudice, and that applies just as much to our own hobby. Despite the fact that Bose make some usable stuff, I have yet to see any of their product line that could not be bettered for less outlay. That also applies to many other marques
It is that sense of belonging to the club that sells some stuff, so the badge culture still prevails, and will always be exploited.
You are ABSOLUTELY right, Robert. Peer pressure is also a factor, which I suspect that your daughter was a victim of before you 'educated' her! ;)
What you describe above, whilst being an undisputable fact, is something I've never been able to relate to, especially the odious 'badge culture'. I'm more likely to rebel against peer pressure and/or 'club mentality', than succumb to it.
The only 'club' I've ever wanted to belong to is that of my favourite football team, and so it shall remain!
Marco.
Canetoad
05-11-2011, 09:09
Comical right enough, and pretty much true of entrenchment on both sides. However, Bose are not the only brand to manipulate the psyche of prospective buyers by successfull advertising and hype.
Ipods were good but despite better devices in the marketplace became the cult defacto mp3 player.
Linn made good turntables but were elevated to mystic status against all comers, etc..
Marketing is extremely powerful, but once it becomes embedded in the consumer's mind, it is a licence to make money. Bose are no worse than many, and continue to succeed..
I recently had a hard time explaining to my daughter that for the same money she was prepared to spend on Bose earbuds, she could have a very fine set of Klipsch or Sennheisers etc which sound quality was superb by comparison. Bose were used by all but a few of her fellow students (who equally lusted for Bose), and were therefore the "best" by communal agreement. Only when I pointed her to a few independent reviews on the net to read for herself did the logic dawn, but the group prejudice still prevails...
A workmate a while back insisted on wearing enclosed (wireless?) noise-cancelling cans so he could listen to his mp3 player on the move. The fact that these were Bose somehow diluted the fact he stuck out like a sore thumb, and looked like a lost air traffic controller in a suit wandering the airport lounge. The name emblazoned on the shells made it more of a fashion statement, until the batteries died.
It is that sense of belonging to the club that sells some stuff, so the badge culture still prevails, and will always be exploited.
ie - Bang for buck is not on equal terms fighting embedded prejudice, and that applies just as much to our own hobby. Despite the fact that Bose make some usable stuff, I have yet to see any of their product line that could not be bettered for less outlay. That also applies to many other marques
Properly marketed I can put a dog turd on a tiny stale bun, add a yellow, glutinous square of cheese like substance and a slice of gerkin and sell millions! Oh, wait a minute, I think that's already been done! :doh: :lol:
Do you know, Marco, I used to support a football team, go to matches etc. I don't do that any more and never watch it. The behaviour of vastly over-paid prima donnas who are either thugs or cry babies put an end to it. It took a long time to eliminate that from my 'group behaviour' syndromes. We all have them, but I am now one down :)
What team did you used to support, Martin? Let me guess.... Fulham or Arsenal :)
Marco.
Talking of Bose, I couldn't sleep last night and ended up watching the QVC channel where they were flogging a couple of Bose wave technology units, £400 a pop. Fascinating stuff. They pushed the "it wont be here tomorrow..." line relentlessly. They invited the viewers to "hear the quality" whilst turning the unit up - remember you're hearing only a fraction of what we can here in the studio. The special guest was a bloke from Bose - he showed us this experiment by placing some Bose speaker drivers next to a burning candle but that was hastily abandoned. The more eagle eyed viewers will have noticed the candle instantly caused the dome to distort dramatically inward, almost catching fire in the process :)
What team did you used to support, Martin? Let me guess.... Fulham or Arsenal :)
Chelsea :)
Audioman
05-11-2011, 09:46
Ha Ha. No wonder you gave up !!!! My pet hate team and Russian billions is ruining football.
Do you know, Marco, I used to support a football team, go to matches etc. I don't do that any more and never watch it. The behaviour of vastly over-paid prima donnas who are either thugs or cry babies put an end to it. It took a long time to eliminate that from my 'group behaviour' syndromes. We all have them, but I am now one down :)
That's exactly the same for me too Martin - I used to go every Saturday as a youngster living near London, but I haven't voluntarily watched a football game, live or otherwise for decades.
Chelsea :)
Shit, I was going to go for them, but chose Arsenal instead! Close, though! :eyebrows:
Marco.
I used to go every Saturday as a youngster living near London
Saturdays were football days, good for an illicit smoke, matey banter and a long journey on the No. 31 bus. Not to mention standing at the 'Shed' end in rain, snow, whatever came down.
Shit, I was going to go for them, but chose Arsenal instead! Close, though! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Lol, well if you had picked Arsenal, that would have been me Marco - I was an Arsenal North Bank boy in the 70's ;)
bobbasrah
05-11-2011, 11:20
Wow, from Bose to professional football.... Oh, ok, I get it, bloody expensive, overrated and full of wind.....
Loved the candle Bose bit, shame they didn't burn the damned thing down.....
I was an Arsenal North Bank boy in the 70's ;)
Fight! :)
Wow, from Bose to professional football.... Oh, ok, I get it, bloody expensive, overrated and full of wind.....
I think it was more a comment on so-called group behaviour or syndrome, where people want to conform with like-minded others and exclude intruders from their belief system.
Bose and Apple are champions at it.
Loved the candle Bose bit, shame they didn't burn the damned thing down.....
That made me laugh too - comes to something when even the man from Bose is setting fire to his own products! :lol:
I think it was more a comment on so-called group behaviour or syndrome, where people want to conform with like-minded others and exclude intruders from their belief system.
Bose and Apple are champions at it.
"We" here should try to ensure we're not (too) guilty of this way-of-being too...
"We" here should try to ensure we're not (too) guilty of this way-of-being too...
Splitter!
I think it was more a comment on so-called group behaviour or syndrome, where people want to conform with like-minded others and exclude intruders from their belief system.
Bose and Apple are champions at it.
Mass Neurosis, at times almost Psychotic, as it requires that the belief system to dominate & replace reality.
Reid Malenfant
15-09-2012, 19:53
Mass Neurosis, at times almost Psychotic, as it requires that the belief system to dominate & replace reality.
Sounds suspiciously like any religion :eyebrows:
Or like prospective Apple iPhone 5 buyers, already camping out for stock arriving next Friday :rfl:
Utter A-HOLES of the highest order!! :doh: :rolleyes: :wanker:
Get a fooking life, FFS.....
Marco.
Rare Bird
16-09-2012, 20:22
:( I know someone who buys a new car every year, he has to have that new Registration before he can or it's detrimental to his sleep pattern :mental:
Sounds suspiciously like any religion :eyebrows:
Painfully so:steam:
prestonchipfryer
17-09-2012, 11:45
:( I know someone who buys a new car every year, he has to have that new Registration before he can or it's detrimental to his sleep pattern :mental:
An acquaintance actually paid more for his "private" plate than for his bloody car. Doesn't make any sense. :rolleyes:
Or like prospective Apple iPhone 5 buyers, already camping out for stock arriving next Friday :rfl:
That's crazy. Why didn't they just order one online?
BTW Apple sold 2 million units in the first 24 hours and are expected to sell a total of 10 million before the end of this month. Mind boggling :scratch:
bobbasrah
17-09-2012, 16:29
That's crazy. Why didn't they just order one online?
BTW Apple sold 2 million units in the first 24 hours and are expected to sell a total of 10 million before the end of this month. Mind boggling :scratch:
Howdya like THEm apples.....;)
Yes, it is indeed mind-boggling that there are so many idiot casualties of technology in this world! :mental:
Marco.
Yes, it is indeed mind-boggling that there are so many idiot casualties of technology in this world! :mental:
Marco.
I yearn for my old Nokia phone.
I charged it once a week and if it rang, it meant that someone wanted to talk to me...
The Vinyl Adventure
17-09-2012, 20:30
Utter A-HOLES of the highest order!! :doh: :rolleyes: :wanker:
Get a fooking life, FFS.....
Marco.
Bit harsh ...
We all have our interests, just coz you don't get it doesn't mean other people dot enjoy that sort of thing ...
I got up one morning at twat past idiot o'clock and went and queued in town for the phone I'm tapping on now... I actually had a lot of fun! That's why most people do it ... There was a couple of people there who had just happened to walk past, mostly normal people, a couple of geeks admittedly ... But no "arse holes of the highest order" ... I can also guarantee you not one of them would spend the sort of money we do in hifi, and certainly non of them would fret about thier cables touching the wall (for example) ... Any of them might well have called you an "arse hole of the highest order" for doing such things and almost definitely told you to get a life!!
I probably would have told them exactly what I'm saying now and all ... Different strokes/different folks!
I admit, I can be an arsehole ... But would you go as far to say I am one of the highest order?? Just out of interest??
Fair enough, Hamish. I guess we have very different ideas of what constitutes as "fun"! ;)
And you're just a wee daftee, not an arsehole :D
Marco.
What amazes me is that a single product can create such an incredible reaction from its loyal customers. Nice position to be in eh?
This single product generates so much profit for Apple that it will make a measurable impact on the US GDP. Think about that for a moment :scratch:
The Vinyl Adventure
17-09-2012, 22:47
What amazes me is that a single product can create such an incredible reaction from its loyal customers. Nice position to be in eh?
This single product generates so much profit for Apple that it will make a measurable impact on the US GDP. Think about that for a moment :scratch:
Fair play to em I say ... Just bought me a new MBP, best computer I've ever owned by a good mile! Most expensive by an equal measure :)
The Vinyl Adventure
17-09-2012, 22:49
And you're just a wee daftee
Marco.
I can live with that :)
Despite my enthusiasm to upgrade my WP7 to one of the new Windows Phone 8 devices, I can assure everyone that I will be in my own bed every night and will patiently wait for its arrival by courier like most other sane people ;)
But seriously, Hamish, if you had fun doing it for your favourite device, who are we to criticise? You are a daftee, though :)
Despite my enthusiasm to upgrade my WP7 to one of the new Windows Phone 8 devices, I can assure everyone that I will be in my own bed every night and will patiently wait for its arrival by courier like most other sane people ;)
And that's exactly my point. I can't think of anything that I would want to own badly enough that I would camp outside a shop, for days, just to ensure that I was first in the queue to get it! :mental:
It's that desperation mentality, amongst what are supposedly sane adults, I simply can't relate to.
Marco.
And that's exactly my point. I can't think of anything that I would want to own badly enough that I would camp outside a shop, for days, just to ensure that I was first in the queue to get it! :mental:
It's that desperation mentality, amongst what are supposedly sane adults, I simply can't relate to.
Marco.
We are a herd species Marco:o:trust:
That may be true for many - but NOT me, EVER! :nono:
Marco.
The Vinyl Adventure
18-09-2012, 14:09
anyone else wish to join martin and marco in agreeing that we are not a heard species ;)
Having experienced such a queue and the fun of doing it I can say for certain it was not just about the phone ... I wouldn't spend days camping out, I find that a bit odd ... but hanging out with a bunch of strangers talking shit at the early hours of the morning was fun... its just not what you do every day ...
I think ive posted this before ...
BPZ3pDxipa4
We are a herd species Marco:o:trust:
Most of us are, but significantly some of us are not...;)
The infamous 'Stamford Prison Experiment' of the early '70s showed this quite alarmingly...the vast majority fall in line, however significantly a handful refused to comply
Despite my enthusiasm to upgrade my WP7 to one of the new Windows Phone 8 devices, I can assure everyone that I will be in my own bed every night and will patiently wait for its arrival by courier like most other sane people ;)
I think you need more than one person for it to be called a queue. :lol:
Sorry Martin, couldn't resist that one.
LOL - what comes around goes around, Martin!
Most of us are, but significantly some of us are not...;)
The infamous 'Stamford Prison Experiment' of the early '70s showed this quite alarmingly...the vast majority fall in line, however significantly a handful refused to comply
Are you refering to those in denile
Soz, I missed this earlier....
The infamous 'Stamford Prison Experiment' of the early '70s showed this quite alarmingly...the vast majority fall in line, however significantly a handful refused to comply...
That's be me! I've always gone against the grain and done my own thing...
Got any links to the aforementioned experiment? It's interesting, and I've not heard of it before :)
Marco.
I wouldn't spend days camping out, I find that a bit odd ... but hanging out with a bunch of strangers talking shit at the early hours of the morning was fun... its just not what you do every day ...
Each to his or her own, Hamish. I'll stick with being tucked up in a warm bed, and waiting for a nice man to come and deliver the phone for me... Or better still, not bothering in the first place, as I don't suffer from, IMO, an unhealthy desire to always own the latest new toy! ;)
I'm not saying you do either, but you should think about the title of this post.
People can become technology victims in much the same way as they become fashion victims; both conditions arise from a desire to be compliant and to owning what the majority consider as 'desirable'. Such behaviour suggests a level of insecurity and a tendency to succumb easily to peer pressure.... That's about as far away from a description of me, as I could think of! :eyebrows:
Does it sound like you, however? A little introspection can be fun....
Marco (who's owned the same basic mobile phone now for three years, and which mostly sits switched off, unless he needs it).
Most of us are, but significantly some of us are not...;)
The infamous 'Stamford Prison Experiment' of the early '70s showed this quite alarmingly...the vast majority fall in line, however significantly a handful refused to comply
Hi Will,
Just watched the documentary on Youtube. Interesting.
I don't think that it would have been so infamous if that sadist "guard" hadn't taken over though.
Cheers for that,
Reid Malenfant
23-09-2012, 20:50
Each to his or her own, Hamish. I'll stick with being tucked up in a warm bed, and waiting for a nice man to come and deliver the phone for me... Or better still, not bothering in the first place, as I don't suffer from, IMO, an unhealthy desire to always own the latest new toy! ;)
I'm not saying you do either, but you should think about the title of this post.
People can become technology victims in much the same way as they become fashion victims; both conditions arise from a desire to be compliant and to owning what the majority consider as 'desirable'. Such behaviour suggests a level of insecurity and a tendency to succumb easily to peer pressure.... That's about as far away from a description of me, as I could think of! :eyebrows:
Does it sound like you, however? A little introspection can be fun....
Marco (who's owned the same basic mobile phone now for three years, and which mostly sits switched off, unless he needs it).
I had to laugh at a couple of people that were in the queue to buy a new Iphone 5. Apparently because they bought the first ones they figured they'd advertise them on ebay & sell them for about £4000 each :eek: :rfl:
I mean that is seriously bloody insane when you can buy the phone miles cheaper, who gives a monkeys if the phone was the first one to be sold :scratch:
Needless to say, I have my doubts that they'll get anywhere near the figure that they are hoping for. If they do, it just goes to show that there are some really insane people out there :D
brian2957
23-09-2012, 21:00
Don't you know you're not a complete person without an iphone Mark :mental:
Reid Malenfant
23-09-2012, 21:13
Thank f*ck for that :D
I'm incomplete! I knew there was something up with me, now next time I see my doctor I'll tell em :)
My last mobile was a Nokia 3330 I think :scratch:
I gave up on mobiles as I'm not mobile enough - if someone wants me they know my home phone number :cool:
Thank f*ck for that :D
I'm incomplete! I knew there was something up with me, now next time I see my doctor I'll tell em :)
My last mobile was a Nokia 3330 I think :scratch:
I gave up on mobiles as I'm not mobile enough - if someone wants me they know my home phone number :cool:
In the 80s it was Nike T Shirts, Mark. In the 90s it was $800 sunglasses---
I'm just pleased to be in the company of others who chose to take the RED pill:whistle:
The Vinyl Adventure
25-09-2012, 09:14
Each to his or her own, Hamish. I'll stick with being tucked up in a warm bed, and waiting for a nice man to come and deliver the phone for me... Or better still, not bothering in the first place, as I don't suffer from, IMO, an unhealthy desire to always own the latest new toy! ;)
What is unhealthy about it?
Material desire can be an unhealthy thing I admit... but no one on this forum can say they dont suffer from that ....
People can become technology victims in much the same way as they become fashion victims; both conditions arise from a desire to be compliant and to owning what the majority consider as 'desirable'. Such behaviour suggests a level of insecurity and a tendency to succumb easily to peer pressure.... That's about as far away from a description of me, as I could think of! :eyebrows:
This is nonsense ... well, not nonsense, but its certainly doesnt apply to every single person who buys the latest gadget or indeed camps out to buy it ...
Fashion I dont get, and have a cynical view of as you have of iphones etc... I might even agree with your sentiment more when it comes to fashion, but I wouldn't assume to apply the sentiment to everyone who wears fashionable clothing. Some people just like to own nice things, for some wearing high end fashion probably makes them happy, they feel they have something of quality, something to be proud of. Ok that does come close to possibly addressing some sort of insecurity... but if it makes people feel better about them selves who are you or I to question that? And why does this have to be about peer pressure, maybe some people are more susceptible to marketing? maybe they aspire to have the lifestyle we are often sold when fashion is marketed to us ... aspiration is basic human nature Marco, its one of the fundamentals of western existence! maybe marketing is a form of peer pressure? maybe its just making people aware of what is aspirational ... but how are any of us aware of what we aspire to??
You live in a nice old house dont you, you have a nice hifi, a record collection etc all things that you have aspired to... what made you aspire to own these things? personal desire to own nice things? where did that desire come from??
My point is you cant just go around accusing people of insecurity when you dont understand what it actually driving their wish to own something ... Ill say it again, i bet any of these "fashion victims" would think you crazy for the money you have spent on hifi... imagine all the shoes you could buy for the amount of money you have spent on your technics ... ... ...
You have some desire to have the best technics around im sure ... maybe that is for your benefit? but I could easily accuse you of trying to be the king of the hill, showing off etc etc you run a bloddy forum and wax lyrical about all the stuff you know... who are you trying to impress Marco, what insecurities are you making up for hiding behind a computer screen shouting everyone down, convincing everyone that you know best ... ... I am of course not saying that is what you are doing ... but its not hard to accuse you of it on the basis of the things you say here! ;)
As for technology, ill give you a couple of other examples of reasons why people might do the things they do:
getting up and queueing for an iphone is exciting, it brings back that long lost feeling of excitement you got at christmas when you are a kid ... waking up at silly oclock in the morning, feeling tired but getting up excitedly non the less... and spending the morning doing something that you wouldn't do every day.
Here is another example ... maybe the person getting the phone runs a photography forum and wants to do a review of the camera before anyone else gets a chance.
maybe a person likes owning nice quality built kit that enhances their life in some way....
Does it sound like you, however? A little introspection can be fun....
Marco (who's owned the same basic mobile phone now for three years, and which mostly sits switched off, unless he needs it).
....which bring us on to the subject of why you have such issue with it? I wonder if you are so far behind understanding what this technology could offer you you have developed a fear of it? maybe you just fear you will never catch up? the prospect of trying to catch up with technology is such a daunting task its better to convince your self that its not for you, that it cant provide you with any advantage ...
You stick to your safe tangible plastic disks for playing music, at least you can touch them... you can control them and own them in the knowledge they cant jus disappear leaving you with no clue how to retrive them... ...
Not how you feel? or is it? introspection can be fun Marco ...
... But so is trying to see through other peoples eyes, trying to understand why people do things and not always assuming people are doing things for some reason that makes them less of a person than you!
why is it you need to have such a derogatory attitude toward these people? does that make you feel better about your self? address some of your insecurities maybe??
maybe not ... I havent a clue what really goes on in your head... (frankly i dread to think ;) )
You make some good points, Hamish. I think that if you tread your own path as I try to do, you will end up liking some fashionable or in-things and be out on a limb in other areas - it's standard distribution, after all.
Two examples: I bought a BMW car and many a person has jested with me that I chose it to set my affluence level, be seen to drive a superior brand etc. Utter nonsense. I truly chose it because it's the absolute best driver's car I could afford. I even went for diesel (not cool) because it's a better engine than the petrol.
Second example: I use a Windows phone when everyone around me has iPhones or Android phones. Do I care? Not a bit, I chose it because it has the best functionality of all the phone OS's for me, regardless of whether I'm the only person in the room using one.
I treat these things like I deal with religion: I can respect other people's choices and enjoy a good debate without taking it all personally. Woe betide anyone, however, who wants to impose their own ideas of what is right on me.
The Vinyl Adventure
25-09-2012, 10:34
My reality is that I dont knowingly care for fashion or trend ... I had a conversation the other day with someone about shoes. they were telling me how comfortable the pair of Kswiss shoes they had were. I was not really aware of kswiss, i recognised the name but that was the extent of it ... until i realised i was wearing a pair!
I have an iphone and a mac because they are the most fit for my purposes in my opinion ... they are also fucking sexy imo. The mac is one of the most well made things i have ever owned and only laptop i have ever owned that is made out of what seems to be the most logical thing to make a laptop out of ... metal!
maybe I am affected by marketing, maybe I am affected by my peers ... I dont care ... I am who I am, I make what i consider to be my own choices for my own reasons ... I dont force my choices on others and the only opinion I force on others (i hope) is one that we should all be open minded enough to accept that other people are capable of making their own choices without them being in someway inferior to me ...
anyway, ive said my bit so i wont harp on any mroe :)
What is unhealthy about it?
Material desire can be an unhealthy thing I admit... but no one on this forum can say they dont suffer from that ....
This is nonsense ... well, not nonsense, but its certainly doesnt apply to every single person who buys the latest gadget or indeed camps out to buy it ...
Fashion I dont get, and have a cynical view of as you have of iphones etc... I might even agree with your sentiment more when it comes to fashion, but I wouldn't assume to apply the sentiment to everyone who wears fashionable clothing. Some people just like to own nice things, for some wearing high end fashion probably makes them happy, they feel they have something of quality, something to be proud of. Ok that does come close to possibly addressing some sort of insecurity... but if it makes people feel better about them selves who are you or I to question that? And why does this have to be about peer pressure, maybe some people are more susceptible to marketing? maybe they aspire to have the lifestyle we are often sold when fashion is marketed to us ... aspiration is basic human nature Marco, its one of the fundamentals of western existence! maybe marketing is a form of peer pressure? maybe its just making people aware of what is aspirational ... but how are any of us aware of what we aspire to??
You live in a nice old house dont you, you have a nice hifi, a record collection etc all things that you have aspired to... what made you aspire to own these things? personal desire to own nice things? where did that desire come from??
My point is you cant just go around accusing people of insecurity when you dont understand what it actually driving their wish to own something ... Ill say it again, i bet any of these "fashion victims" would think you crazy for the money you have spent on hifi... imagine all the shoes you could buy for the amount of money you have spent on your technics ... ... ...
You have some desire to have the best technics around im sure ... maybe that is for your benefit? but I could easily accuse you of trying to be the king of the hill, showing off etc etc you run a bloddy forum and wax lyrical about all the stuff you know... who are you trying to impress Marco, what insecurities are you making up for hiding behind a computer screen shouting everyone down, convincing everyone that you know best ... ... I am of course not saying that is what you are doing ... but its not hard to accuse you of it on the basis of the things you say here! ;)
As for technology, ill give you a couple of other examples of reasons why people might do the things they do:
getting up and queueing for an iphone is exciting, it brings back that long lost feeling of excitement you got at christmas when you are a kid ... waking up at silly oclock in the morning, feeling tired but getting up excitedly non the less... and spending the morning doing something that you wouldn't do every day.
Here is another example ... maybe the person getting the phone runs a photography forum and wants to do a review of the camera before anyone else gets a chance.
maybe a person likes owning nice quality built kit that enhances their life in some way....
....which bring us on to the subject of why you have such issue with it? I wonder if you are so far behind understanding what this technology could offer you you have developed a fear of it? maybe you just fear you will never catch up? the prospect of trying to catch up with technology is such a daunting task its better to convince your self that its not for you, that it cant provide you with any advantage ...
You stick to your safe tangible plastic disks for playing music, at least you can touch them... you can control them and own them in the knowledge they cant jus disappear leaving you with no clue how to retrive them... ...
Not how you feel? or is it? introspection can be fun Marco ...
... But so is trying to see through other peoples eyes, trying to understand why people do things and not always assuming people are doing things for some reason that makes them less of a person than you!
why is it you need to have such a derogatory attitude toward these people? does that make you feel better about your self? address some of your insecurities maybe??
maybe not ... I havent a clue what really goes on in your head... (frankly i dread to think ;) )
:lolsign:
There's far too much there to go into on a forum, Hamish! It's perhaps something we should discuss in a pub sometime, over a few :cool:
Marco.
The Vinyl Adventure
25-09-2012, 11:56
:lolsign:
There's far too much there to go into on a forum, Hamish! It's perhaps something we should discuss in a pub sometime, over a few :cool:
Marco.
haha, yeah ... im up for that ... im not sure you want to get me started with a few guinness mind ;)
Coolio... Maybe then at the forthcoming AoS show? ;)
Marco.
The Vinyl Adventure
25-09-2012, 12:18
when and what is
the forthcoming AoS show? ??
Next year (November time). We're currently fine-tuning the necessary arrangements :)
Marco.
The Vinyl Adventure
25-09-2012, 12:34
coolio
The tech press are reporting "disappointing" iPhone 5 sales of "only" 5 million units in the first weekend. That means phones delivered, not just ordered. There's a 3-4 week waiting time if you order one today.
WTF That's a lot of phones!
The Vinyl Adventure
25-09-2012, 16:33
Is that worldwide?
Maybe they should bring the damn price down a bit ...
Is that worldwide?
Maybe they should bring the damn price down a bit ...
No, I think they're phasing the launch worldwide to try to spread the load...
Mental :mental:
Beechwoods
25-09-2012, 17:24
Queuing for a new iPhone is no different to the idea of getting to a record shop at 5am on Record Store Day. It's a bit of fun for those that like to feel a bit of camaraderie on these annual events :)
Queuing for a new iPhone is no different to the idea of getting to a record shop at 5am on Record Store Day. It's a bit of fun for those that like to feel a bit of camaraderie on these annual events :)
Seems bonkers to me, but hey everyone's different LOL
cloth-ears
23-10-2013, 07:06
Who remembers this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxQqWSnsHoA
Audio Al
23-10-2013, 07:41
Who remembers this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxQqWSnsHoA
Me , entertaining :lol:
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