Convert in wall speakers?

[andyrlb]

I have these listed for sale elsewhere but I’m now thinking I may regret selling them having at least not tried them in some cabinets , if they don’t sell I may well do so but how would I calculate the size of box/cabinet needed ?
Would they make decent hifi speakers?
150watts

Niles HDLCR

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[Macca]

They are hi-fi speakers, suspect they will sound acceptable.

I suppose with in wall mounting you could have any size of cavity behind them depending on the building.

Problem you may have given they are for flush-fitting into a wall is no baffle-step correction in the crossover. Otherwise I'd guess about a 25 litre sealed cab would work okay.

[andyrlb]

They are hi-fi speakers, suspect they will sound acceptable.

I suppose with in wall mounting you could have any size of cavity behind them depending on the building.

Problem you may have given they are for flush-fitting into a wall is no baffle-step correction in the crossover. Otherwise I'd guess about a 25 litre sealed cab would work okay.

Thanks mate


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[Lawrence001]

Another issue will be if they are optimised for wall mounting with little volume behind them - T-S parameters, Q etc. They probably also assume a sub will be used in a cinema room type setting.

It might be possible to get around this with a larger cabinet, porting etc but a lot of experimentation could be required, or software simulation with the driver specs.

The standard specs are below, note the space required behind them in a wall mounting scenario.


Impedance:4 ohm

Recommended Amplifier Power:10W to 150W

Frequency Response:65Hz - 21kHz +/-3dB

Sensitivity:89dB with 2.83V pink noise input, measured at 1 meter on axisFrame

Dimensions:8-1/4" x 14-1/2" (21 cm x 37 cm)

Hole Cutout Dimensions:7-1/8" x 13-1/4" (18.1 cm x 33.7 cm)

Depth Behind Wall:3-1/2" (assumes 1/2" drywall) (9 cm - assumes 1.3 cm drywall)

Shipping Weight:7.5 lb (3.4 kg)

[Macca]

Not sure how they can give an FR measurement when they don't know the size of the enclosure they will be put in? I assume that spec is based on an optimal scenario.

Low frequency performance is going to vary quite widely depending on the size of the wall cavity.

Really you'd be better off soffit-mounting speakers in their own enclosures than using a random sized wall cavity as the enclosure, but there's probably not the behind wall space to do that in most buildings.

[Pigmy Pony]

Could they not be mounted in a conventional speaker cabinet, and then a 'divider' put behind it which could be moved back and forth to find the optimum behind-the-speakers' volume?

[Macca]

Could they not be mounted in a conventional speaker cabinet, and then a 'divider' put behind it which could be moved back and forth to find the optimum behind-the-speakers' volume?

How would you judge it though?

The only way to do it properly is to get the Thiele-Small parameters for the mid-bass drivers and do the calculations. Even then there's not one set best size, depends on what sort of bass response you want. A cab that's way too large will sound bass shy as you'll have very gradual roll off and no peak.

Too small and you have a huge mid-bass peak that will get annoying, and no low bass at all.

That's why I suggested about 25 litre cab as it should sit between the two extremes.

As said these speakers are for home cinema so expected to be used with sub-woofers and a high-pass filter, so the bass performance won't matter much in that situation as you won't be feeding them low frequencies anyway.

[Pigmy Pony]

How would you judge it though?

The only way to do it properly is to get the Thiele-Small parameters for the mid-bass drivers and do the calculations. Even then there's not one set best size, depends on what sort of bass response you want. A cab that's way too large will sound bass shy as you'll have very gradual roll off and no peak.

Too small and you have a huge mid-bass peak that will get annoying, and no low bass at all.

That's why I suggested about 25 litre cab as it should sit between the two extremes.

As said these speakers are for home cinema so expected to be used with sub-woofers and a high-pass filter, so the bass performance won't matter much in that situation as you won't be feeding them low frequencies anyway.

When someone mounts these speakers in the wall (their intended purpose after all), do they have to do these calculations? I would have thought there would be instructions as to the size and depth of the cavity behind the speakers. And that any deviation from this would adversely affect the speakers' FR.

[andyrlb]

Thanks for your input gents but it’s too time consuming for me with potentially little reward.


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[Macca]

When someone mounts these speakers in the wall (their intended purpose after all), do they have to do these calculations? I would have thought there would be instructions as to the size and depth of the cavity behind the speakers. And that any deviation from this would adversely affect the speakers' FR.

The size of the cavity will only affect the low frequencies which in the sort of home theatre set up these are intended for, the subs will handle anyway.

If you wanted to use them without subs then yes it would matter, but then they would be the wrong tools for the job.

[Macca]

Thanks for your input gents but it’s too time consuming for me with potentially little reward.


I agree.

[sailor]

It maybe best to just contact Niles and ask for this info.

Being designed for in-wall mounting suggests they are intended for a sealed enclosure or even to work with a huge enclosure behind them like the next room with bass rolling off smoothly in typical fashion. I have seen people giving speaker boxes away that are unloved and unwanted so grab a pair and mount one of those and listen.

It may also be informative if you mount a pair in a large panel open baffle setup. An old door or even a sheet of polystyrene just to experiment.

You could remove one of the mid/bass drivers and send it to me to measure which will provide you with the electro-mechanical and Thiel/Small parameters necessary for determining the correct loading and size.

It's probably better if you find someone local to do this because of greater cost of posting to Ireland and return. One of the parameters is Vas which needs a box fabricated for this purpose which must be sealed with no air leaks for accuracy. Once these are obtained the rest is simple.

I would not charge you for the measurement but would need some payment for constructing the box.

[Pigmy Pony]

Thanks for your input gents but it’s too time consuming for me with potentially little reward.


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I agree it looks to be more trouble than it's worth. Best off selling them to someone who wants speakers in their walls :)

[walpurgis]

Being intended for cavity wall installation, the speakers are probably well damped magnetically and not too fussed about back loading, so maybe they'd work well enough in the pair of large cabinets you were going to dispose of, if you still have them?