View Full Version : Audiolab 6000CDT Mods
Keep reading about how the 6000CDT is constantly getting recommended, love mine.
Thinking was that it would be replaced with a "better" transport at a later point?
Well, change of plan. :)
From research, reading many forum posts and some head scratching I think I'd need to "silly" to noticably better it, and even then possibly only by small percentages.
I've always found an Audiolab 6000CDT comparison thread on a forum somewhere; "it got really close" or "not sure which one I preferred".
Think the new 9000CDT would be better, stronger construction with different tray load CD mech, but still... by how much exactly for 3 times the price?
Happy with results of modding my Oppo 203 bluray player, much better performance than stock.
SO:
Decided to mod this transport to see how far I can take it, similar to what I did with my Oppo 203.
Looking into PCB changes, power supply tweaks, cap changes etc, as well as mechanical and RF/EMI treatment too.
Its getting quite a popular player, so maybe this thread could be helpful for others, similar to my Oppo thread.
Open to any suggestions from any DIY heads out there!
Heres the original PCB
https://translate.google.com/website?sl=auto&tl=en&hl=en-US&client=webapp&u=http://www.hoer-wege.de/bilder/6000cdt_servo_t.jpg
Lots of space in the case too, scope to break out improved parts if that can be a thing.
https://vintageaudiorepair.nl/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/6000cdt_inside-kopie-scaled.jpg
Looking forward to this.
More to come.
Work begins tommorow.
Have a pack of this stuff coming, used it before its really effective.
Silent Coat 4mm aluminium backed Butyl constrained layer damping sheets.
Uses constrained layer damping to lower panel resonance and absorb structural vibrations, converting them into low level heat.
Previously I used the 2mm sheets to line the casework on my Oppo, worked great.
Didn't know they did double thickness 4mm stuff.
This will add even more mass and damping to the Audiolab's metal casework.
:thumbsup:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0740/8597/products/5b3df0f503c75_1024x1024.jpg?v=1531401652
brian2957
02-05-2023, 12:46
I think you could patch a pothole with that stuff :eyebrows:
If theres any left I'll let you know mate...
brian2957
02-05-2023, 15:08
Well I am considering a new driveway :lol:
Vibration is the enemy of all things Hifi so reducing it or eliminating it can only be a good thing. I used the thinner Silent Coat in my amps to great effect. Not only does it seem to cut down internal vibration getting through to the valves it also suppress external vibration. In fact I remove my valve rings as they sounded better without but with silent coat in the case.
I presume it will work well with all electronics including solid state gear as it has been proven that capacitors and digital clocks can benefit seriously from vibration protection.
Let us know how you get on with this extra thick stuff Gary.:)
Oo-er Mrs...
Will do James.
The 2mm stuff worked great in my Oppo,
used it to further damp the drive as well.
I'll do the same with the Audiolab,
the unit is really well put together but the case could be beefed up.
The drive itself seems a bit biscuit tin-ey, so see how damping that pans out.
Dammit.
Just my luck.
Audiolab's cheaped out and used really soft metal T6 Torx screws to bolt the case together.
Most of them have stripped heads from over tightening, I cant even crack open the case! :lol:
What a great start.
Tiny screw, head sits flush with the case, so my usual brute force methods wont work.
https://i.imgur.com/7yvCDuk.jpg
Time to get the Dremmel and cut those suckers out you think?
Stryder5
03-05-2023, 11:38
Cut a slot with dremel first and use a big bladed screwdriver.
yup as above. you can also get a freeze lube that can free a stubborn or corroded bolt. think its aptly called 'crack it'
this is a cheaper version.. same idea tho
https://www.amazon.co.uk/HYCOTE-Maintenance-Shock-Spray-400ml/dp/B016LZGJJ8/?_encoding=UTF8&ref_=pd_wlh&pd_rd_w=Ybd0D&content-id=amzn1.sym.9e6c9480-447f-45e9-bfbb-c3a85c1dfbf4&pf_rd_p=9e6c9480-447f-45e9-bfbb-c3a85c1dfbf4&pf_rd_r=89S4DEME1XDJARD4VKXN&pd_rd_wg=3hvLB&pd_rd_r=0b994fcb-6a9f-4450-b3d3-686d5d99379a&th=1
Already have a Dremmel :)
Frustrating though!
Just need a small enough cutting disc.
Not heard of that Shock Spray before Grant, looks like "super WD40".
interesting.
Its a new player though, its just that the screws are very soft and (I suspect) chosen deliberately by Audiolab for "1 shot only" use to hamper opening the product.
Kinda like Apple do.
Seen it done though, so its possible.
Think I've just been unlucky.
They say nothing good comes easy, so Plan D it is then. :thumbsup:
Already have a Dremmel :)
Frustrating though!
Just need a small enough cutting disc.
Not heard of that Shock Spray before Grant, looks like "super WD40".
interesting.
Its a new player though, its just that the screws are very soft and (I suspect) chosen deliberately by Audiolab for "1 shot only" use to hamper opening the product.
Kinda like Apple do.
Seen it done though, so its possible.
Think I've just been unlucky.
They say nothing good comes easy, so Plan D it is then. :thumbsup:
wear down some larger ones mate til they are right size;)
brucew268
03-05-2023, 12:51
Work begins tommorow.
Have a pack of this stuff coming, used it before its really effective.
Silent Coat 4mm aluminium backed Butyl constrained layer damping sheets.
Uses constrained layer damping to lower panel resonance and absorb structural vibrations, converting them into low level heat.
Previously I used the 2mm sheets to line the casework on my Oppo, worked great.
Didn't know they did double thickness 4mm stuff.
This will add even more mass and damping to the Audiolab's metal casework.
:thumbsup:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0740/8597/products/5b3df0f503c75_1024x1024.jpg?v=1531401652
Gary, I've found there is a sweet spot in use of these materials, not too much or for that matter too little. I find that SilentCoat and similar partly reduce vibrations and partly just lower the frequency of existing vibrations without removing them. The more used, the lower the frequency and might be helpful or harmful to the electro-mechanical operation of the laser, clock, etc. When the life starts to be sucked out of the music, that's when I back off and remove a bit. It's not unusual in my experience to have one part of the frequency spectrum improve and other frequencies degrade, not noticed until later. YMMV.
Thanks Bruce,
Good to know.
I'll keep an eye (ear?) on that.
Gaz.
Tada! :)
Elbow grease, patience and a slightly bigger Torx bit and got the buggers out.
Discarding the crappy T6 torx screws that came with it?
I have replacement "proper" screws which pretty much look the same, but will be easy to remove if need be.
https://i.imgur.com/IXFHPSI.jpg
No need for Dremmel, phew!
Now for some investigation, taking note of cap values and giving the PCB a closer once over.
As suspected, the case is well put together, but uses thin bent sheet metal.
I'll get that sorted.
Back on plan. https://theartofsound.net/images/smilies/thumbs-up.gif
walpurgis
03-05-2023, 18:38
Discarding the crappy T6 torx screws that came with it
I quite like Torx screws, nice and positive. Dunno their origins, but I'd guess from automated assembly lines.
Wakefield Turntables
03-05-2023, 19:28
Gary,
I've got a furutech pure copper gold plated IEC going cheap in my "to sell" pile if your intersted in replacing that IEC on the Audiolab (it's never been used). Send me a PM if your interested.
Tada! :)
Elbow grease, patience and a slightly bigger Torx bit and got the buggers out.
Discarding the crappy T6 torx screws that came with it?
I have replacement "proper" screws which pretty much look the same, but will be easy to remove if need be.
https://i.imgur.com/IXFHPSI.jpg
No need for Dremmel, phew!
Now for some investigation, taking note of cap values and giving the PCB a closer once over.
As suspected, the case is well put together, but uses thin bent sheet metal.
I'll get that sorted.
Back on plan. https://theartofsound.net/images/smilies/thumbs-up.gif
I like how they used all that empty space to site the traffo well away from everything else.
Regrettably the things that annoy me about it can't be fixed.
Lawrence001
03-05-2023, 21:26
A la Croft
First part done, job's a good 'un.
:thumbsup:
I'm doing the Mods in 3 steps
1 Mechanical Isolation and vibration control
2 RFI / EMI treatment
3 Component changes/ imporovements (particularly to power supply, regulator and rectifiers, Cap improvements etc)
I'm taking time between each till I listen to what each change does.
Doing all at once, easy to lose your way and not know what's doing what.
Or - if its sounding worse, what's the culprit!
1. MECHANICAL ISOLATION
a. Casework
Damped the bottom and rear of the case with SilectCoat
https://i.imgur.com/0s13nDN.jpg
Electrical tape used over aluminium here, just in case, as its near the PCB
https://i.imgur.com/dVcPReE.jpg
b. Interior Damping
Took out the PCB and isolated it on O-rings from the stand offs it sits on
https://i.imgur.com/B5ALWbv.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ujI3j1z.jpg
c. Transport Mech
Constructed from thin pressed metal, applied SilentCoat where possible to dampen vibration and ringing as well as adding mass.
Obviously careful to avoid interfering with moving parts, though was able to dampen this as well, Ejecting and inserting CDs now silky smooth and feels solid.
Was quiet before, playback now totally silent.
Looks a mess! :D But who cares if it works and its not seen anyway?
https://i.imgur.com/C7qnHkf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5CNMwD4.jpg
d. Toroidal Transformer
Made sure the nut was tightened and damped any metalwork with SilentCoat. Also damped where it connects to the bottom of case, further isolating it from vibration.
https://i.imgur.com/8qE4BHw.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/IOLXwy2.jpg
e. Miscellaneous
Any metal to metal contact points (screws etc) are isolated with o-rings. (Including the SPDIF out socket, now isolated from the rear of the case.
f. CD Transport Isolation on shelf
Looked again at what the player was sat on.
1.
Ikea Apptlig bamboo board, "floating" off the glass shelf on Moongel dampening pads
(recommended by drummers for damping vibration in snares) and this Guy.
https://youtu.be/ZI6diR2uXo8
2.
SoundampedSteel constrained layer damping sheets sitting on the bamboo board
RCD Cone cups with o-rings in the 'dimple'
Sillicon Nitride ball bearing (idea nicked from Naim Fraim) suporting the CDT at 3 points.
3.
Finally on top, an unused 6Kg bracket from my Sony TV at on top of player adding mass and further damping.
The Audiolabs going NOWHERE!
SO, ANY ISSUES?
Not really happy to say. :)
Though first thing I did was apply SilentCoat to the underside of the lid, turns out because the way the case is constructed and slides together it wouldn't fit back on with any thickness added to the lid.
Whole lot had to be scraped back off with a Stanley knife - stuff of nightmares!
Anyway... aside that all good.
So much for the plan to dampen the 'biscuit tin' lid!
Not to worry though, there's a nearly 6Kg weight sitting on it, that'll work!
First part done.
Plugged in this morning.
https://i.imgur.com/RO9bKYw.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/jMzpCPV.jpeg
Immediately sounding better already from power up in terms of solidity, soundstage depth, separation and detail.
The sound is bigger, clearer and projects better.
Speaking of detail,
Player sounds more relaxed, but more detail is coming through?
It's like it has more time to play music, things sounding more 'right' in terms of timbre and timing.
Time well spent I like this!
:thumbsup:
More to come when I look at EMI/RF treatment.
Worked to great effect in my Dac, only potential "gotcha" there was overdoing it in the analogue output section, digital was all good.
Happily here its all power supply and digital circuits,
with switching rectifiers, digital clocks and the like reckon there's scope for improvement there.
Low hanging fruit is the Display PCB, probably spits out out a ton of mush.
Then power supply rectifiers (switch noise), the digital transformer and chips then the clock.
See how I get on at the time.
seem to recall you can switch the display off from the remote?
Think I tried it but couldn't tell a difference (easy to A/B that one) but I might be getting that mixed up with another player.
Some serious damping Gary and good you can already hear some benefits. I may go a bit further with damping my tin can Croft amps especially the lids which are a tad thin.
seem to recall you can switch the display off from the remote?
Think I tried it but couldn't tell a difference (easy to A/B that one) but I might be getting that mixed up with another player.
You can Martin,
If its anything like the display on my Dac though, even with it "off" theres still power going to it and keeps beaming out the nasties.
Not as bad as when it's on though, but just trying to cover all the bases.
Its a lot innit? :lol:
I stopped and plugged the Player back in at several points (my thanks to Brucew268) just to check if any of the life went out of the sound as I was adding it.
If not, keep going.
And I did!
Wakefield Turntables
05-05-2023, 19:39
Thats properly internally damped, I think you might have missed a bit... :ner:
Thats properly internally damped, I think you might have missed a bit... :ner:
Dammit.
time to open 'er up again. :D
Very happy with improvement.
Is there any end to this Madness?
Uhm... NO
Now looking at my amps and Dac.
https://i.imgur.com/jYhhlsk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WnsHqQa.jpg
The piano black top plate is connected to a flat panel metal frame, it's side panels slotting down into the case, then bolted in from below.
Removed the lid, and treated the side panels and underside of metal top plate, being careful of ventilation holes.
https://i.imgur.com/JFhO0aq.jpg
With the PS Audio gear Im not going anywhere NEAR the internals, just damping the case where I can.
Underside and side slot panels of top panel lid.
and bottom of the case.
https://i.imgur.com/b9D6KF1.jpg
Did similar to my Dac as well, which uses exactly the same case.
PS Audio gear is built like a tank and seriously heavy, so wasn't sure how effective this would be?
After doing both Dac and Preamp, there was similar improvement after damping the Audiolab, but even more so.
The Pre and Dac are the heart of the system I guess, and affect everything?
This has been a very good upgrade for little cost, and works on high end gear as well as more affordable kit.
Gotta do the big Meridian 557 now?
The thing weighs 27Kg, but always room for more weight... right? :D
I can walk on water....oops, maybe not yet:eek:
https://media.tenor.com/zi8mOJwgFDEAAAAd/beaver-im-out.gif
I'd be a bit concerned about applying what is effectively insulation to a power amp.
You don't want that sucker overheating.
Your not wrong Martin, and a good shout.
For the Meridian I'd only be treating the base panel, which is a solid metal plate.
Not a lot of room inside, guess theres a reason for those big heatsinks.
https://www.meridian-audio.info/public/img_2844r.jpg%5b3530%5d.jpg
My thinking is it might be beneficial to dampen where the big Transformer is fitted, hopefully bring about similar improvement to the other kit I've done this on.
Possibly the front plate too, if it can be easily removed.
Thats a "next week job" though, just gonna enjoy the (improved) Tunes for a while. :)
Not a lot of room inside, guess theres a reason for those big heatsinks.
lol yeah I think they try to make the cases as compact as they can but there's a limit to how small you can go with an A or AB amp if you want it to deliver some proper power.
I can walk on water....oops, maybe not yet:eek:
https://s.hdnux.com/photos/32/10/31/6850147/4/ratio3x2_1200.jpg
To finish off the mods,
did the Meridian power amp today.
Tightened up the big hexbolt holding the transformer then set to it.
Had a go at opening the case up to see if I could damp the front panel but was beaten by two wee screws that refused to budge. Ah well, not to be.
https://i.imgur.com/AYpXbXj.jpg
Job Jobbed.
https://i.imgur.com/T4CsAQ3.jpg
Black tapes only there to stop the aluminium reflecting off the glass shelf the amp sits on, that would get annoying real quick.
https://i.imgur.com/DaC07AA.jpg
Again,
Nice improvement for not a lot of outlay.
The Meridian was always a very neutral transparent sounding amp,
Damping the base and transformer has brought forward the amps 'grunt', its a bigger beefier sound now but with improvement in transparency and dynamics as well.
Everything flows better, image is bigger and more locked in place.
The mod has tightened everything up, and seems to have increased the dynamic range - drums hit harder and go deeper.
Vocals are more focused and stand out in the mix more.
So yeah,
A job worth doing and worked on a range of kit.
Really glad I did it.
Think will improve most kit, give it a go if your looking for a "free" upgrade.
Highly recommended Peeps. :thumbsup:
https://www.deadening.co.uk/products/silent-coat-extra-4mm-mat-volume-pack
Another round of improvements to the Audiolab:
1 RFI/EMI treatment using Stillpoints ERS Cloth of Transport mechanism and various digital chips on the PCB
2 SilentCoat damping material on power supply capacitors, incoming AC rectifiers and a few other Caps I tried and found to benefit from damping
3 Further damping and Treatment of AC Inlet and AC supply wires to board
4 Fitted a Synergystic Research Orange fuse
5 All removable PCB ribbon cable connectors, PCB pins, IEC Inlet pins treated with Deoxit Gold contact Enhancer
Stillpoints ERS cloth
I've used Stillpoints ERS cloth successfully in my PS Audio Dac, Oppo 203 and even my AppleTV, masking the effects of RFI can improves the sound and image quality quite noticably.
You dont want to use too much though, or in the wrong place as it can kill the top end.
Even a 2cm square over the Toroidal transformer (or example) leads to a duller sound, but used on the digital chips - fantastic.
Was a back and forth process of identifying what works best and where - Took a while and time I'll never get back, I must be mad!
The Audiolab responded really well to RFI/EMI treatment.
This, along with the case damping I did previously, has noticably raised the sound quality over the stock Transport, which was no slouch to begin with.
Happy to have done this, well worth the time. :thumbsup:
Capacitor Damping
Another thing I did (after experimenting and listening to player afterwards) was use small ammounts of SilentCoat damping material on power supply capacitors, incoming AC rectifiers and a few other Caps I tried and found to benefit from damping.
For the Caps I made sure to keep the top plate uncovered where it was designed to "split" should the cap go bad.
This mod didn't change the function of the cap, just dampened down any potential vibration. Lightly tapping the side of an untreated cap you could feel vibration going through it.
After treatment it was completely gone.
Also added additional damping to the PCB itself and AC inlet.
Also added a Synergystic Research Orange fuse.
These babies really work, not quite as good as the Purples I fitted to my Dac and amps, but runs it close, and is perfect for the Audiolab transport.
The Transport where I left it before,
showing case resonance damping, PCB Isolation and RF/EMI treatment of display PCB
https://i.imgur.com/0s13nDN.jpg
For this round of Mods:
1 Damping & RFI treatment on AC Inlet
2 Capacitor and PCB damping
3 RFI Treatment on digital Chips and AC rectifiers
4 Damping of regulator heatsinks (these were slightly loose actually, tightened up the screw properly before applying small ammounts of damping.)
5 Internal of SPDIF socket RFI treated and dampened. Deoxit treated
Anything related to AC power I paid particular attention to.
A lot of trial and error here, listening back after making changes and deciding if it made things any worse. If not, it stayed on.
https://i.imgur.com/4kK2cmJ.jpg
6 RFI treatment of Disc transport
7 Standby relay and and power supply too
Quite a lot of back and forth here too, applying treatment cloth different places and ammounts and listening to what effect it had.
Noticably better when the Transport mechanism was isolated, reckon the motor in there was giving off a lot of electrical mush.
https://i.imgur.com/VIbEHqA.jpg[
IMPROVEMENTS AFTER THESE MODS
The Audiolab already had a good low end, after this round of modding its tightened up and goes a little deeper.
Bass drums have more heft, and feel more solid.
Bass solo's seem easier to follow and pick out where it is in the mix.
The sound now projects better, soundstage feels more planted with a better sense of depth?
Noticed it most with well recorded classical stuff, a lot going on but different elements seperated better and clearer.
Top end mostly unnafected, though improvements in seperation bring out things like cymbal taps and the like better.
So well worth doing!
Happy with the improvement, but this one was a lot of work.
Was going to do electrical mods as well, cap improvements, taking the relay and switch mode psu out of circuit (cheers Alan for the tip)
thought about replacing the IEC inlet with a Furutech and swapping out internal AC wiring with silver, as per my Oppo mods, But you know what?
Theres a big enough improvement over the stock Audiolab that I'm happy to leave it here.
So job' Jobbed. :thumbsup:
Revisited my Oppo 203 as well,
A similar set of mods there too, but thats a different story for a different thread.
Quite a bigger jump with the Oppo compared to the Audiolab, CD playback is now better.
Audiolab v Oppo - Preferred the Audiolab before modding it, doing so just made it better by even more.
Compared them both though after modding, the Oppo is the better CD Transport now.
Further RF treatment and damping (using the thicker 4mm Silentcoat - was 2mm) seems to have really lifted the Oppo.
More like what I would expect actually, given its hooked up to the Dac via i2s, fully linear PSU and the other modded goodies I did to it previously.
Post that one and update my Oppo thread at some point with that.
I need better hobbies :D
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