tracking force gauge?

[oldson]

can anyone recommend a good quality guage that does not break the bank?

been looking at "AUDIO ADDITIVES DIGITAL STYLUS FORCE GAUGE" which retails around 60 quid.
i have noticed this unit is available with other brand names stamped on it, so its probably a cheap chinese generic unit.
have seen identical lokking unit for half the price above. have also seen comments on them being really inconsistent with their measurements.

as an alternative (i read somewhere) that "Riverstone audio" make a unit that is potentially more accurate and i have found one uk seller......
https://www.directnine.uk/products/riverstone-audio-recordlevel-turntable-stylus-tracking-force-gauge-scale-0005g-resolution-measures-vtf-at-correct-lp-record-level-height-2-mm-to-3-mm-color-silver?gclid=Cj0KCQiAo-yfBhD_ARIsANr56g6IetVQfUMu79Qe5ZplF8kSjmuuMb0WQssk XKU5jLEXe1XRCvzXpjcaAnOlEALw_wcB

is this one any good or any other recommendations?

[Barry]

I have one of the 'Riverstone' gauges (or similar, mine is marked 'Electronic Balance Mechanism' model EMB-1: they also use a generic and probably Chinese sourced design). I also have one of the 'Audio Additives Digital Stylus Force Gauge' versions (mine is described as an 'Arm Load Meter'), as well as a Mitchell stylus balance.

All are perfectly adequate to set up VTF.

Don't confuse resolution with accuracy. For a load of 2g (measured on a calibrated chemical balance as 2.0133g), the respective indicated values were 2.04g and 2.01g, or an accuracy of +1.3% and -0.16% respectively.

[Beobloke]

Garrard SPG-3 from eBay.

Yes, it looks like something from the Cold War (and, indeed, it dates from around then!) but it is purely mechanical, completely unaffected by cartridge magnets and, years ago when Hi-Fi World stuck one in a digital stylus balance group test for a laugh, it turned out to be one of the most accurate of all those tested!

[Barry]

Yes the Garrard SPG-3 is purely mechanical, as is the Transcriptors/Mitchell design. The Garrard uses a clock spring to provide the counterbalance. As long as this is not over-stressed and in good condition the gauge will maintain long-term accuracy.

The Transcriptors design is even simpler: it is a simple beam balance. The only thing to be aware is it must be used on a level surface, as it uses a spirit bubble to assess counterbalance.

[hifi_dave]

Garrard SPG-3 from eBay.

Yes, it looks like something from the Cold War (and, indeed, it dates from around then!) but it is purely mechanical, completely unaffected by cartridge magnets and, years ago when Hi-Fi World stuck one in a digital stylus balance group test for a laugh, it turned out to be one of the most accurate of all those tested!

Glad someone else is using the superb Garrard. I have been using one for decades and even have a spare and that's despite having around a dozen other brands of scale, crude, balance to various electronic. None of these are more accurate than the Garrard, which can be calibrated and none are as easy to use. Get on E-bay and snap one up.

[struth]

still got my balance one, which is still kept in its box.. ive a couple of digital ones both are usually' accurate, but thats the trouble with them you never know each time you use them if they are still bang on and sitting right. the balance is a little fiddly and i suppose, crude but its remarkably accurate enough imo.
that garard one looks good. i dont have a tt now so wont be getting one tho.

[oldson]

Glad someone else is using the superb Garrard. I have been using one for decades and even have a spare and that's despite having around a dozen other brands of scale, crude, balance to various electronic. None of these are more accurate than the Garrard, which can be calibrated and none are as easy to use. Get on E-bay and snap one up.

posted same question on pfm and the folks there recommended a cheap digital unit which i ordered last night.
after reading the comments on here i have just ordered one of the spg-3 from ebay.
i figure its nice to compare the 2.

thanks to all for the replies

[Barry]

What arm are you using Simon?

I ask because the VTF adjustment of most high quality arms is sufficiently accurate, so that the use of a separate VTF gauge is not necessary. Despite having three such gauges (as discussed above) I rarely use them and simply rely on the calibration of the arm itself.

[oldson]

What arm are you using Simon?

I ask because the VTF adjustment of most high quality arms is sufficiently accurate, so that the use of a separate VTF gauge is not neccessary. Despite having three such gauges 9as discussed above) I rarely use them and simply rely on the calibration of the arm itself.

its an rb303.
it was set past 3 which must mean the spring loading was disengaged , from what i have read.

the sp3g i ordered arrived today, so i followed the calibration instruction on that 1st.
then set it to the required 1.75g for my exact cart.
the scale hardly moved which, correct me if i am wrong (and i usually am), means there was nowhere near enough tracking force?
i adjusted the weight on the arm to balance at 1.75g setting on the scale. i think i have done it right.
as i said earlier i have also ordered a cheap digital scale. my plan is to wait and try that when it arrives to see if it confirms the 1.75g (ish) measurement that i have set.

until then i am a tad wary of using the deck as i dont want to damage my gear.

[Barry]

Ah, so it's a Rega arm. In my limited experience of Rega arms, I would not trust the calibration: when counterbalanced and the spring set to zero, there is still a small downward force. So yes, a VTF gauge is required.

If you have managed to achieve the correct 1.75g VTF as measured by the Garrard SP3G gauge, then I would leave things as they are. I would agree there is a problem with the spring loading of your Rega arm, but moving the counterbalance weight forward to apply the required VTF is a perfectly acceptable method.

[oldson]

all seems good. the digital scale has not arrived and decided to trust what i have done as i couldnt wait.
i would like to say "i think the sound has improved", but may just be placebo.

[Barry]

That's good news. What you have done is perfectly acceptable - so just sit back and enjoy! :)

[hifi_dave]

Having set up tens of thousands of Rega arms since their inception, I would respectfully suggest that their calibration is as accurate as you would expect and certainly as accurate as any stylus gauge I have used, inc the Garrard SP3G. Sure you can check it but both the arm and the gauge will give the same results.

I don't know how many millions of RB arms Rega have manufactured but I'm pretty sure they would know if anything was amiss with their tracking force calibration.

[struth]

Having set up tens of thousands of Rega arms since their inception, I would respectfully suggest that their calibration is as accurate as you would expect and certainly as accurate as any stylus gauge I have used, inc the Garrard SP3G. Sure you can check it but both the arm and the gauge will give the same results.

I don't know how many millions of RB arms Rega have manufactured but I'm pretty sure they would know if anything was amiss with their tracking force calibration.

i have had 2 rega arms. neither were super far out but they were not accurate either. on rega''s side, neither were in any way new so may have been worn

[hifi_dave]

I doubt they were worn, they go on for ever but the tracking force might not have agreed completely with a stylus gauge. For all practical purposes they are accurate and super easy to use but for anyone who loses sleep over such things, they should be setting tracking force and bias by ear.

[struth]

I doubt they were worn, they go on for ever but the tracking force might not have agreed completely with a stylus gauge. For all practical purposes they are accurate and super easy to use but for anyone who loses sleep over such things, they should be setting tracking force and bias by ear.

i'll bow to your inside knowledge david... can only give my experiences.

[oldson]

I doubt they were worn, they go on for ever but the tracking force might not have agreed completely with a stylus gauge. For all practical purposes they are accurate and super easy to use but for anyone who loses sleep over such things, they should be setting tracking force and bias by ear.

surely that depends on the ability of that ear??

[hifi_dave]

Exactly, which is why you see people and certain reviewers claiming that they can hear the effects of raising or lowering an arm a tenth of a mm. If you are enjoying it, then all is good.

[oldson]

Exactly, which is why you see people and certain reviewers claiming that they can hear the effects of raising or lowering an arm a tenth of a mm. If you are enjoying it, then all is good.

cant argue with that .

i assume , from what you are saying that although, Rega specify a 1.75g tracking force there is a considerable +/- tollerance?

[hifi_dave]

I wouldn't say "considerable' but don't lose sleep over it. I wouldn't go lower than the recommended because you don't want any mistracking which can damage your precious records but if you need to go heavier then do it in small steps until you get the desired result.

[cjm123]

..I was given a fairly inexpensive Chinese digital gauge for Christmas and I find it borderline useless and frustrating so have returned to my old faithful mechanical Ortofon gauge which surprisingly seems pretty accurate.:)

I agree with HiFi Dave . In my experience the calibration of Rega RB arms seems pretty accurate and virtually spot on with my Ortofon gauge.

.....keeeeep balancing!...OK I agree not so good so hides behind :sofa:

Chris

[Barry]

..I was given a fairly inexpensive Chinese digital gauge for Christmas and I find it borderline useless and frustrating so have returned to my old faithful mechanical Ortofon gauge which surprisingly seems pretty accurate.:)

I agree with HiFi Dave . In my experience the calibration of Rega RB arms seems pretty accurate and virtually spot on with my Ortofon gauge.

.....keeeeep balancing!...OK I agree not so good so hides behind :sofa:

Chris

Is that the simple 'see-saw' type gauge, Ortofon include with their cartridges? It's adequate for the marked VTFs, but difficult to interpolate if you want to move way from those markings.

https://www.ortofon.com/media/10166/stylus-pressure-gauge.jpg?height=600&width=745&mode=pad&bgcolor=fff&quality=80

[cjm123]

..yes it is but as I use an MM cart which tracks at 2 grams it works fine for me.

Chris

[Barry]

I have one somewhere - it came with one of my Ortofon MC cartridges (can't remember which model). It is fine for setting up Ortofon cartridges to their recommended VTF, but difficult if you want to set the cartridge to a non-marked VTF.