View Full Version : Help identify this Grado cartridge
I recently bought a brand new Grado from Scott Nangle. It is supposed to be a Reference Master 1 ABS but I'm pretty sure it's something else. I have reached out to Scott and he is in turn reaching out to Grado but in the meantime maybe an AoSer may know. There is no description on the Grado wood box or data sheet. D22 (or maybe DSS) is inscribed at the rear in the plastic mount bracket.
So why do I think it's not a Reference Master 1?
1. The spec sheet says the output is 4.8mV (which is what the RM1 should be) but it's way lower. I need to turn the preamp volume knob to 6 to get the same volume that my other MM's give at 3. I estimate it's actually about 1-2 mV because when I use the Rothwell MC1-H SUT (designed for homc) I get the same gain/output as I do with my Denon DL-160 which is 1.6mV
2. The spec sheet gives the cartridge mass as 6g (as per RM1) - this one weighs 7.5g.
3. The cartridge has a large integral mounting bracket/plate with threaded holes for the mounting screws (photo). This has D22/DSS inscribed on the rear which is the only ID number. I have never seen one of these on a Grado and can't find any photos of similar on the web.
It sounds wonderful with the MC1-H into a Darlington labs MP-7 mm phono stage. It tracks superbly so I'm sure there is nothing "broken".
I suspect that this is in fact one of the low output models that are normally in wood bodies.
I'm sure Grado will come back with the actual model but in the meantime maybe somebody here can identify it.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221215/bb4bbfa498780099ce2baefaffceef64.jpg
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Lawrence001
16-12-2022, 17:29
Interesting, it looks like what you bought but doesn't seem to behave like it. Is there a chance that plate on top is just there to protect it in transit and you're supposed to remove it before fitting? That would explain the weight increase but can't see how it would cause the rest of the differences.
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Interesting, it looks like what you bought but doesn't seem to behave like it. Is there a chance that plate on top is just there to protect it in transit and you're supposed to remove it before fitting? That would explain the weight increase but can't see how it would cause the rest of the differences.Thank you! Your suggestion about the top plate was (I think) correct.
I had assumed it was integral with the cartridge body - not least because it has threaded holes for the mounting screws and the screws included with the cartridge had no nuts. I assumed therefore that the plate was required for mounting. Also, the cartridge was nicely packed in a cutout in its wooden box and not secured with screws via the top plate so I didn't think it was needed for transit.
Anyway, after a close inspection and a bit of courage I was able to slide the plate off the cartridge body exposing the traditional mounting holes. It is actually better because I can now use screws from below into the threaded headshell block of the Mission 774 arm.
Maybe Grado included this as an optional mount? Hopefully, Grado will get back to Scott Nangle with the full story.
So respect is due to you for the suggestion.
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Lawrence001
16-12-2022, 20:17
Glad you've solved the issue of the plate, I was trying to work out how including the plate would lead to the other findings you had but I couldn't work out how. If it's heavier I'd expect it to be more sensitive (as in louder) rather than less, but I wonder if the adjustments you presumably made to the arm to balance the higher weight somehow lead to a lower output. Can't think how but it's the only thing I can think of other than a faulty cart or the wrong innards being fitted by Grado from a different range as you suggest.
Or maybe a resultant incorrect VTA meant the stylus wasnt tracking properly?
Glad you've solved the issue of the plate, I was trying to work out how including the plate would lead to the other findings you had but I couldn't work out how. If it's heavier I'd expect it to be more sensitive (as in louder) rather than less, but I wonder if the adjustments you presumably made to the arm to balance the higher weight somehow lead to a lower output. Can't think how but it's the only thing I can think of other than a faulty cart or the wrong innards being fitted by Grado from a different range as you suggest.
Or maybe a resultant incorrect VTA meant the stylus wasnt tracking properly?I really think it's one of their low output MI's as tracking at 1.5g was perfect (with HFN test record and MK1 ears). I've installed the cartridge sans top plate in my other Mission 774 arm and will set it up tomorrow
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Lawrence001
16-12-2022, 21:46
Is there a low output MI cartridge that looks like yours though I can't find any mention of one online, they all seem to be wood?
Is there a low output MI cartridge that looks like yours though I can't find any mention of one online, they all seem to be wood?I can't find one either - like you all my searches show only wood low outputs - it really is most odd
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Have you looked on Vinyl Engine?
Have you looked on Vinyl Engine?Yes - first port of call after Scott Nangle/Grado
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Is there a low output MI cartridge that looks like yours though I can't find any mention of one online, they all seem to be wood?So the plot thickens. Having done a trial mount without the top plate in my second 774 I couldn't apply the correct VTF! The "nude" cartridge only weighs in at 5.5 and as it only needs short (light) bolts I was unable to balance out the arm at 1.6g VTF. (I've got a slightly heavier counterweight than standard)
So tried to put the top plate back and it's just won't slide back on! So I reckon it was factory fitted as a puka mounting plate not a transit device.
Anyway, I've installed it in my other 774 (I've got 3) which has the head block holes drilled out so allows longer (heavier) bolts and all balances fine and VTF is no problem.
Tracking is again fine and resonant frequency has remained unchanged at 13Hz
As you'd expect it's not made any difference to the output gain.
However, it definitely sounds much better without the top plate with better clarity, depth and precision so maybe the top plate was not a mounting plate after all?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221217/f26dbf288b5788335cc22100f067cc14.jpg
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Have you got a photo of the bottom and the front of the cartridge?
It seems from a few threads on VE that Grado are usually unwilling to give information on cartridges.
Have you got a photo of the bottom and the front of the cartridge?
It seems from a few threads on VE that Grado are usually unwilling to give information on cartridges.Only the front I'm afraid.
The rear has D22 etched into the plastichttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221217/9b8fb4f021ac23800ee04300edb50cfc.jpg
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Now Sorted
Had a reply from Grado factory - it is a low output (2mV) version and the top plate is a decoupler:
"the top plate is what we call a decoupler
has two functions
1. to minimize resonances
2. to eliminate mounting nuts for the screws
and yes, it is about 2mv output"
Having removed the decoupler I have to say it sounds better without it but I guess it may depend on the tonearm/headshell
With an output of only 2mV it certainly benefits from the additional gain provided by the Rothwell MC1-H.
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Now Sorted
Had a reply from Grado factory - it is a low output (2mV) version and the top plate is a decoupler:
"the top plate is what we call a decoupler
has two functions
1. to minimize resonances
2. to eliminate mounting nuts for the screws
and yes, it is about 2mv output"
Having removed the decoupler I have to say it sounds better without it but I guess it may depend on the tonearm/headshell
With an output of only 2mV it certainly benefits from the additional gain provided by the Rothwell MC1-H.
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great they have got that sorted for you...
great they have got that sorted for you...Indeed.
A forum member over on Vinyl Engine posted the Grado contact info.They responded to my email within 3 hours. I'm still waiting for a response from the dealer I bought it from
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Indeed.
A forum member over on Vinyl Engine posted the Grado contact info.They responded to my email within 3 hours. I'm still waiting for a response from the dealer I bought it from
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sounds about right :D
got the base pixel 6 myself.. very pleased with it..
So at last a definitive answer from Tonar (Grado Europe Distributor). All new Reference Master 1's (ABS or wood) are "low output" 2mV and all the ABS ones come with a factory fitted "decoupler".
Tonar had no idea about this change until they contacted Grado on my behalf. Grado have still not produced appropriate (correct) data sheets for this new version
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Lawrence001
04-01-2023, 00:38
Good to know but a shame the distributor wasn't aware sounds like a case of bad (non existent) comms from the manufacturer.
Good to know but a shame the distributor wasn't aware sounds like a case of bad (non existent) comms from the manufacturer.Exactly so - really disappointing from Grado. Now I know what it is it would be very helpful to have a correct data/spec sheet and product description
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