Juggling LP12/SL150 and SME3009/SyrinxPU3

[kirstysdad]

I have spent the past year juggling my marital and hifi status...

But in between i have been listening to the combinations of above with a decent MM Goldring cartridge.

Going between the four I can't tell which I prefer, which just goes to prove that money doesn't predict...

Techie is faster and more exciting, LP12 is much more seductive.

The SME is elegant/flawed but the PU3 is, err, cooler, more accurate.

Both suit the LP12. PU3 and Techie?

I have to sacrifice something as needs must. What would you partner and why?

[mayebaza]

For me everything starts and finishes with musicality. IMHO accuracy usually becomes monotonous and boring.

[Jac Hawk]

For me everything starts and finishes with musicality. IMHO accuracy usually becomes monotonous and boring.

I’d agree with Baza, pin point accuracy and clinical presentation a lot of times remove the bounce and emotion as well, give me flawed musicality every day

[Beobloke]

Easy - SL150 and PU3 every time.

To me, calling something “musical” is just a shorter way of saying “it’s not very good but I still like it”. In my experience, the ‘not very good’ bit soon becomes more and more dominant and distracting.

[walpurgis]

Easy - SL150 and PU3 every time.

That would also be my choice.

[Jac Hawk]

Easy - SL150 and PU3 every time.

To me, calling something “musical” is just a shorter way of saying “it’s not very good but I still like it”. In my experience, the ‘not very good’ bit soon becomes more and more dominant and distracting.


i'd disagree, all equipment has an effect on the music to a greater or lesser extent, musicality is a term that in my opinion can't easily be defined, but certainly isn't a shorthand way of saying something isn't very good. In my opinion once you reach a base level better sound quality becomes harder and more expensive to attain, to a point where it's much more subjective and you like the way a piece of equipment presents the sound to you, it's no better or worse but you personally prefer it. if we all liked the same things the world would be a boring place.

[Barry]

I think the ill-defined term 'musicality' is another way of suggesting a sense of engagement with what you are listening to. One several occasions I have auditioned two cartridges, each equally well regarded - but with one, I found myself not really listening to the music as much as I should: it just didn't engage me.

I don't really believe in absolutes, but if asked to offer an opinion based on experience, I would not go for a Linn LP12.

[KeithL]

Sandy - that's my ex back-up SL150/SME 3009 you're not sure about. For your information my current TT is SL150 / Jelco SA750D / Goldring 1042 into a Graham Slee GramAmp 2SE. Sometimes I change over to AT33PTG/11 into the MC stage of my Luxman. Underpinning everything is my SL150. I have a more modern SL1500C which I find no more stable than my 50 year old SL150. I wouldn't change my SL150 for anything less than a SP10.

[kirstysdad]

I am tending towards the PU3/SL150 except my homemade acrylic arm board might be a limiting factor. I suspect my measurements are incorrect.:doh:

Can anyone provide me with a template as I fear my measurements are bollox! :lol:

That said, the SME/LP12 is a classic and sound lovely even with a DIY acrylic board it takes me back to 1983...

I am using a cheapy Goldring E3 that has, TBH, exceeded my expectation...

[Wakefield Turntables]

I am tending towards the PU3/SL150 except my homemade acrylic arm board might be a limiting factor. I suspect my measurements are incorrect.:doh:

Can anyone provide me with a template as I fear my measurements are bollox! :lol:

That said, the SME/LP12 is a classic and sound lovely even with a DIY acrylic board it takes me back to 1983...

I am using a cheapy Goldring E3 that has, TBH, exceeded my expectation...

Sandy, I would completely ignore any comments regarding your setup. At the end of the day, it's what makes you happy and if having 2 setups works for you, then so be it! It dosen't matter how you reach sonic nirvana so long as you enjoy yourself getting there.

[Pigmy Pony]

Sandy, I would completely ignore any comments regarding your setup. At the end of the day, it's what makes you happy and if having 2 setups works for you, then so be it! It dosen't matter how you reach sonic nirvana so long as you enjoy yourself getting there.

Completely agree. As for the Linn LP12, it has its fans and its detractors. Who's wrong? None of them.

[majex45]

If cost and space are not problems I would keep them all and give them a thorough listening.
Then, and only then, if something is not right, or you get tired of the sound, pass on that piece.
It often takes a while to decide which is your favourite (not necessarily the best).
I have many CD players and swap them over on a regular basis.
It keeps things fresh and I listen more to the music rather than it becoming a background.

[kirstysdad]

If you can't tolerate their flaws, it doesn't matter how great they are at other things... like wives/husbands!

[tlscapital]

If you can't tolerate their flaws, it doesn't matter how great they are at other things... like wives/husbands!

Words of the heart. But if one is willing to take the path of improvement there are those that can bend and those who break. Or those worthwile of the effort and those not. To start with I would keep them turntables and tonearms couples with the Linn & SME combo for their simple yet efficient classic match at coupling and de-coupling design through gravity and the laws of physics and the SL150 & Syrinx for their firm, compact and sturdy mastered build and design.

Leaving your Goldring E3 in the mist since I don't know if it sounds better on one of those two tonearm or not. But what's certain is that the SL150 & Syrinx don't have much "room" for improvement. They are more the if you're happy with me fine and if not pass your way kind. While the Linn & SME combo have much more evolutive potential to tweak in if ever. Meaning that if you already dig the duo beyond that the sky's the limit... Maybe not that far but still.

FWIW I've read few enthusiastic reviews of the Syrinx PU3 on Linn's & Co. Meaning that it could turn out to be a very interesting match although "against nature" as in my belief. About SME's on Techies I've not yet read the review that seemed meaningfull enough to go down all the trouble and scream about it. But it's a common tweak. Am not impressed by Techie gear anyway so I could be partial here. Maybe before anything else sort out your DIY'ed armboards.

[kirstysdad]

Words of the heart. But if one is willing to take the path of improvement there are those that can bend and those who break. Or those worthwile of the effort and those not. To start with I would keep them turntables and tonearms couples with the Linn & SME combo for their simple yet efficient classic match at coupling and de-coupling design through gravity and the laws of physics and the SL150 & Syrinx for their firm, compact and sturdy mastered build and design.

Leaving your Goldring E3 in the mist since I don't know if it sounds better on one of those two tonearm or not. But what's certain is that the SL150 & Syrinx don't have much "room" for improvement. They are more the if you're happy with me fine and if not pass your way kind. While the Linn & SME combo have much more evolutive potential to tweak in if ever. Meaning that if you already dig the duo beyond that the sky's the limit... Maybe not that far but still.

FWIW I've read few enthusiastic reviews of the Syrinx PU3 on Linn's & Co. Meaning that it could turn out to be a very interesting match although "against nature" as in my belief. About SME's on Techies I've not yet read the review that seemed meaningfull enough to go down all the trouble and scream about it. But it's a common tweak. Am not impressed by Techie gear anyway so I could be partial here. Maybe before anything else sort out your DIY'ed armboards.

On the button!
I've had the PU3 on the LP12 for years, in fact since 1993. Actually bought PU3 new from John in 1985 (and put on an RD80 Ariston) I think before he became Origami PU7 etc...
I worked in the trade for a wee while and remember throwing out SME and LP12 spares that were gathering dust back then. A classic combo but a bugger to set up and unpopular with some staff for that reason.
Put the PU3 on a homemade plinth with an old pulley Garrard and realised how good/fast it could be with nearly direct drive/no sprung suspension. So bought a Techie. Just need to perfect the PU3/SL150 interface. I know that the LP12/SME will sound fine. I am just really keen to hear that uncompromising "take it or leave it" that you mention.

[kirstysdad]

https://i.postimg.cc/RZYd225T/IMG-0840.jpg (https://postimg.cc/gxv3ZS0w)

Finally...

I have mounted the PU3 to my SL150 as an experiment to see if worth investing in a bespoke mounting plate.

You will see that I have used the existing SME mount, and made a blank acrylic 4mm plate using the arm mounting plate as a template, to fit on top. Because the alloy of the cast arm-board has a front-back notch I have has to go with that orientation. It does mean that the arm is mounted further towards the front than ideal. I had to take a mm off each side with a file to accommodate the 30mm PU3. Ideally it needs to go slightly back and to the right...

A pal made me a 3D printed measuring tool to get the 211mm arc from the spindle as accurate as possible for a lash-up. I the end it was less that 1mm out and the stylus aligned easily (unlike the last attempt).

I regret not taking pictures of the process, but will try to when I strip it down. I was too keen to do a listening comparison within as short as time possible.

[kirstysdad]

Listening?

Well... The PU3 on the LP12 is pretty excellent in isolation (pun intended). Lots of PRAT and toe tapping as one would expect. But then again, the SME on the SL150 is no slow coach. Very, very enjoyable. I have yet to put the SME onto the LP12.

PU3 on the Techie?

Initial reaction was a slight disappointment- the "bounce" had gone. But what transpired with more listening was a slightly deeper and more defined bass, less upper bass perhaps, and a bit more excitement.

I am working through LPs, but the early comparisons were made listening to Donald Fagen's The Nightfly and Leonard Cohen's You Want it Darker (on 180g).
The PU3, could do with a service, owned from new, with an inexpensive Goldring E1 £65 cartridge simply gets more information out of the groove, and the Techie is more "clinical" than the LP12.

So, no surprises there then. I am hoping to get a friend's father to turn a mounting on his lathe, either from hardwood or a block of acrylic with an accurately cut hole in to see were we can go.

[kirstysdad]

Just a wee update...

I am really enjoying this combo, the more vinyl I pull out to play, the more I hear what I have been missing...

Next week I will put the PU3 back onto the LP12...:scratch: and then it's putting the SME onto the LP12 which I haven't tried yet- very retro!