View Full Version : Energy usage- valve amp!
Is it a genuine concern? I've just had my estimated energy bill for next 12months...£5100!! I'm an average household, 3 bed semi, 1 bathroom, 3 of us here.
I'm trying to understand what is making us twice the average household and the only think I can think is I have a valve amp that I run probably an hour a day in the week and maybe 4 hours a day at the weekend. I just can't believe it would have that sort of effect
It's a primaluna prologue 1. Is there anyone who could work out the cost of fuelling this against a typical solid state amp, say a rega elicit and also a sugden A21a.
It has a 300W power consumption.
An Elicit-R is 375W
Google is your friend here.
The elicit uses more than the primaluna? What does it equate to in pennies?
in general a valve amp will use about 150watts, or say 2 old biggish light bulbs. not by itself gonna increase your costs to 5k a year. if your in a poorly insulated biggish detached house thats gonna up your costs a fair bit. oldish boilers/rads will too.
Ali Tait
05-10-2022, 08:07
It has a 300W power consumption.
Which means it’s drawing around 1.25 Amps. Negligible. I wouldn’t worry about it. You’d be better getting a smart meter and agreeing with your provider to pay just for what you use rather than a flat monthly fee.
Sherwood
05-10-2022, 08:52
Many appliances use far more electricity than one would think.
I made the jump to LED lights years ago. Admittedly, some of the early bulbs were pretty poor. However, I am now using a 100w equivalent cool white in my office that draws a mere 12w. What is more, it is up to full brightness immediately.
freezers and fridges are high users especially as they are on 24//7. hoovers as well; some are rated at 2000 watts and cable gets quite warm while using. so hoover once a week instead of every day etc. cooking is another way of saving.
im going down to one freezer soon. that will help a bit.
RockAddict
05-10-2022, 09:29
Just for a bit of fun, I recently bought an Aiyima A07 power amp (class D) for less than GBP £100, including 32v/5A power supply (Amazon). To my surprise, it conveyed much of my typical listening fodder (melodic rock) wayyy better than it had any right to.
Following a YT reviewer's suggestion, I explored further and replaced the Op Amps with a pair of Sparkos SS3602s (>£140, imported from the USA - be aware of currency fluctuations / potential import duty / UK VAT costs to be added). Yes, more than the cost of the A07....!
With the total cost under £250, the modified A07 is remarkably good value and uses a lot less electricity than my main valve amp (Willsenton R8). Unsurprisingly, the A07 doesn't best the R8 for SQ (IMO) but it's more than good enough to sustain extended listening sessions. For now, the A07 has become the default workhorse for the majority of listening, with the R8 used as a treat.
Oh, and the footprint of the A07 (sans cables at the rear)? Slightly smaller than the front-on view of a standard plastic cover for a commercially released Blu-ray...
When I am at home my audio system is on for about 12 hours a day (either listening to the radio, or playing music). It is powered by a 50W/channel amplifier.
All the lightbulbs are LED types and I have a freezer which is in a cupboard, so is not working under the best of conditions.
Total fuel bill (electricity and gas) is £2K per annum.
So, at 33p per kWh, if the primaluna is 0.3kw and I have it on for 10 hours that would equate to around a quid ?
Jac Hawk
05-10-2022, 11:17
so i'm in a 2 bed detached, it has a lounge, kitchen, bathroom and a basement, the wall and loft are insulated and i have a reasonably new boiler, my house isn't huge by any stretch of the imagination, but Shell energy recon i need to pay £340 a month, daylight robbery, they also say my smart meter has stopped sending them info which is strange as it seems to be working fine.
my thinking is they are asking more from people that can pay to cover for the probable millions that can't, so they then hold onto this over payment from the people that can, while they recoup the money from the folks that can't, i hope this makes sense. I can see loads of people over paying for energy over the winter and into next year, then having one hell of a time trying to claim it back.
Just a thought.
so i'm in a 2 bed detached, it has a lounge, kitchen, bathroom and a basement, the wall and loft are insulated and i have a reasonably new boiler, my house isn't huge by any stretch of the imagination, but Shell energy recon i need to pay £340 a month, daylight robbery, they also say my smart meter has stopped sending them info which is strange as it seems to be working fine.
my thinking is they are asking more from people that can pay to cover for the probable millions that can't, so they then hold onto this over payment from the people that can, while they recoup the money from the folks that can't, i hope this makes sense. I can see loads of people over paying for energy over the winter and into next year, then having one hell of a time trying to claim it back.
Just a thought.
i'd be sending in meter readings every month. im an end terrace with same insulation/size etc. end august to end sept was used 124£. im paying 150..and have a decent sized credit, plus im getting 66 added from govt each month thankfully as with gas being used it will go up substantially.. just checking and they reckon i will be using 300 a month soon... i hope not.
Firebottle
05-10-2022, 11:27
Mike unfortunately I think there is probable truth in this.
We pay monthly for what we use. I haven't worked out the figures for the rises but we use the minimum equipment, LED lamps and one fridge freezer.
The house is well insulated, we chose triple glazing when we had new windows but I am certainly not paying a fixed figure every month where the energy company profits from it.
I'm in a 1930s semi, good windows, modern combi boiler etc. 2 adults, 1child, 1 vathroom, 1 fridge, gas cooker.
I'm struggling to understand the disparity in costs between similar families. My hifi is the one thing I have different from my work colleagues. They're all paying around 250 a month.
Oh, also...I have a 15 yr old Panasonic 37" plasma TV which I'm told uses a lot of power?
plasma will use about 200watts; maybe more as its old.. they are several times worse than leds. often 30's semis are bigger rooms with higher celings; my mums 30's house took a lot of heating compared to place im in now. it will all add up but i think they may be over estimating your use. depends on old historical use i'd think.
Jac Hawk
05-10-2022, 12:31
it's weird for a country (UK) that has an abundance of North Sea gas we are paying much more than our neighbouring EU countries some of which (Germany) don't have gas as a natural resource and have historically bought much of this from Russia.
i can't help feeling that we are being taken for mugs
it's weird for a country (UK) that has an abundance of North Sea gas we are paying much more than our neighbouring EU countries some of which (Germany) don't have gas as a natural resource and have historically bought much of this from Russia.
i can't help feeling that we are being taken for mugs
govt sell it to make money..but not to home users.. some of it goes to gasprom, or was; dunno if it still does.
govt sell it to make money..but not to home users.. some of it goes to gasprom, or was; dunno if it still does.
more info re this here..
Far from being an abundant, national resource that we can turn on at will, there are some important limitations to what the North Sea can provide and when. Here's why.
Oil-heavy basin: The geology of the North Sea means that, after nearly 50 years of production, 70% of what’s left in the basin is oil not gas – and not the type of oil that we use in UK refineries, which means that we export 80% of it.
Limited gas reserves: To put North Sea gas reserves in context, as Europe seeks to slash its dependence on Russian gas, even extracting all proven UK reserves and resources from new fields would only meet about 1% of European gas demand each year to 2050, according to the Climate Change Committee.
Long development time: It takes on average 28 years to go from discovering a new field to getting any oil or gas out of the ground, according to official figures. So, even if the government were to licence a new gas field today, it would likely be 2050 – the year the UK has pledged to be net zero –before it produced anything we could use in our homes.
Pipeline of oil, not gas: There are, of course, licensed fields further along the development pipeline, but most of this is oil, not gas. Analysis by Uplift of Rystad data shows that oil makes up 73% of the resource in the 46 new fields up for approval in the next three years.
Your estimate is high because prices have soared, standing charges have almost tripled too.
Our monthly direct debit went from £120 to £278, that wasn't due to usage it was due to price rises.
Mine has gone from 120 to 240 to 410! In a few months
seems to have gone up rather too much tbh.
my 40 yr old freezer is more than half empty now so will be empty fairly soon. sure its costing a small fortune. once ive enough put by to cover any issues im gonna replace my fridge as its pretty old now too and is falling apart lol. also switched off a beer fridge...
seems to have gone up rather too much tbh.
my 40 yr old freezer is more than half empty now so will be empty fairly soon. sure its costing a small fortune. once ive enough put by to cover any issues im gonna replace my fridge as its pretty old now too and is falling apart lol. also switched off a beer fridge...
You have a separate fridge for your beer? :eek:
Jac Hawk
05-10-2022, 13:48
Surly the point is that the cost of our electricity and gas has gone up more than 4 times as much as any other country on the planet, things just don't add up. do we pay more in tax on E&G than other countries? the tax hasn't increased but the government will be well pleased that they are getting more cash per unit sold due to the higher price, the government need to recoup the billions spent during the pandemic, is this a quiet way of doing that? let the energy companies milk us for all we are worth and quietly rake in the tax.
You have a separate fridge for your beer? :eek:
used to.. its off now, but tbh i dont really drink beer now. so no great loss. it was also used as a fridge overflow when i had a lot of shopping; i was inclined to live out of fridge and freezer as i find it difficult to make from scratch now, unless its quick and doesn't need me standing over it. a steak is do-able when im feeling better.
in fact i just got told they are putting up my payments by 14 quid.. i will see how it works out but im intent on using a bit less than last year. power was also cut to the sheds/garden etc...every little helps
Enossification
05-10-2022, 14:13
I also had a worry about the energy consumption of my sound system. My power amp is an Usher R1.5 which apparently consumes 720 Watts when it is switched on. After using our smart meter I reckon the system uses around 16 pence an hour up from 7 pence an hour. Then, whilst checking this stuff I find that when we get up in the morning the smart meter is now reading £1.07 where it used to display 44 pence. That of course is before we actually start our day. I wonder how long it will be before the energy companies start publishing record huge profits ? Of all the non essential consumer stuff in the house I think my power amp uses the most.
my standing daily charge(which is a bloody disgrace by way) is about 50p and 30p or thereabouts. so thats 300 notes a year without having anything on. a total con... about £10 billion from across country every year just to be connected to grids..
So, back to my question...is a valve amp using more energy than a general SS amp?
Enossification
05-10-2022, 14:29
my standing daily charge(which is a bloody disgrace by way) is about 50p and 30p or thereabouts. so thats 300 notes a year without having anything on. a total con... about £10 billion from across country every year just to be connected to grids..
So true and such a bloody disgrace. I guess it keeps the shareholders happy though.
Enossification
05-10-2022, 14:31
So, back to my question...is a valve amp using more energy than a general SS amp?
I would say yes if it is a Class A amp but what do I know ? My knowledge of electronics is naff.
So, back to my question...is a valve amp using more energy than a general SS amp?
i dont think your usage at 10hrs a week at just over an amp is going to break the bank, and some ss amps may be same or higher.
Sugden a21a draws 70w idle or at full output apparently
https://www.hifinews.com/content/sugden-a21-series-2-amplifier-lab-report
Primaluna is 300w
Elicit r is 37w idle, 270w at max output
Firebottle
05-10-2022, 15:02
So, back to my question...is a valve amp using more energy than a general SS amp?
Yes unless the SS amp is Class A.
hifi_dave
05-10-2022, 15:23
You need to calculate what your energy usage will actually be. The energy companies are trying to rip us all off by inflating the estimated cost of usage in order for them to make a stash to help them through any bad times.
We had a similar crazy price but fortunately my Wife, who pays the bills, is on the ball and worked out a more accurate estimate based on actual energy used over the past two years and the figure was less than half the energy companies were asking for. When challenged on this, they just caved in.
Agreed - Class A amplifiers draw a constant current, and hence power. Furthermore they have a maximumum theoretical efficiency of 50%; and what isn't used to drive the speaker is wasted as heat. (So turn off the radiators in your listening room. ;) )
I used to use Mark Levinson ML-2 monoblock amplifiers. 25W into 8 Ohm, doubling in power for every halving of load impedance. They have an efficiency of 25%, hence when idling the pair of them pour out 200W as heat.
Jac Hawk
05-10-2022, 15:38
my listening room is always nice and toasty 15 minutes after turning the Primaluna on :D
spendorman
05-10-2022, 17:28
If anyone is interested, I measured a Quad 303 power amplifier and it took around 10 Watts at zero output.
Pigmy Pony
05-10-2022, 17:36
You have a separate fridge for your beer? :eek:
No, he has a separate fridge for food. not quite the same thing :D
Probably something like 10p/hour now.
Certainly more than the EWA M50 power amp, less than a big Pass class A.
Whilst it's obviously not the cheapest amp to run, it puts heat in the room, and sounds great.
Given the hours you run it, it can't be the cause of your massive bills, surely.
Maximum theoretical efficiency of class A is 45%.
If your Prima Luna is 300 watt, it's on 13 hours a week, assuming electricity costs 35p per kWh then that's about £1.37 a week plus your standing charge, plus all the other bits of kit you have turned on.
I am all electric including an ASHP in a detached 4 bed bungalow in an exposed location with twin valve monoblocks, I burn 7000kWh annually so that's 7000x0.35=£2450 plus a couple of hundred standing charge. So my total is £2650/12=£221 per month
Hope that helps
Stranraer
05-10-2022, 21:09
Quick n easy check for you. Check your bill for the cost of a Kw/h, probably around 40p now.
Tour your house and turn everything practical off at the wall (not the fridge freezer, I'd suggest), lights off, everything you can find off.
Take a meter read. Let's say the read is 10000.
Take another read after an hour without turning anything electric on (no cheeky cups of tea). If it's now 10002, you've used 2 Kwh's. At 40p per K/wh that's 80p.
Now turn on and give your hifi a blast for an hour. If the meter's advanced from 10002 to 10007 that's 5 Kwh's at 40p each = £2.
Two of those Kwh's are from the fridge (as per the first test) so your hifi's cost £1.20 for the hour.
For reference, one of the biggest culprits is an electric water/immersion heater if you have one. They're the devil. Do NOT leave them on for any longer than strictly necessary.
Quick n easy check for you. Check your bill for the cost of a Kw/h, probably around 40p now.
Tour your house and turn everything practical off at the wall (not the fridge freezer, I'd suggest), lights off, everything you can find off.
Take a meter read. Let's say the read is 10000.
Take another read after an hour without turning anything electric on (no cheeky cups of tea). If it's now 10002, you've used 2 Kwh's. At 40p per K/wh that's 80p.
Now turn on and give your hifi a blast for an hour. If the meter's advanced from 10002 to 10007 that's 5 Kwh's at 40p each = £2.
Two of those Kwh's are from the fridge (as per the first test) so your hifi's cost £1.20 for the hour.
For reference, one of the biggest culprits is an electric water/immersion heater if you have one. They're the devil. Do NOT leave them on for any longer than strictly necessary.
Brilliantly simple way to work out and see the costs thanks for this idea
Enossification
06-10-2022, 08:13
My power amp is Class A apparently and runs bloody hot so I have rigged up a USB fan above it to help to circulate the heat as it is sat on the bottom shelf of a heavy pine table. After an hour of use the room is notably warmer when we walk in. I need to calculate whether the amp is cheaper at heating the room than the radiators.
Enossification
06-10-2022, 08:15
Quick n easy check for you. Check your bill for the cost of a Kw/h, probably around 40p now.
Tour your house and turn everything practical off at the wall (not the fridge freezer, I'd suggest), lights off, everything you can find off.
Take a meter read. Let's say the read is 10000.
Take another read after an hour without turning anything electric on (no cheeky cups of tea). If it's now 10002, you've used 2 Kwh's. At 40p per K/wh that's 80p.
Now turn on and give your hifi a blast for an hour. If the meter's advanced from 10002 to 10007 that's 5 Kwh's at 40p each = £2.
Two of those Kwh's are from the fridge (as per the first test) so your hifi's cost £1.20 for the hour.
For reference, one of the biggest culprits is an electric water/immersion heater if you have one. They're the devil. Do NOT leave them on for any longer than strictly necessary.
:thumbsup:
My power amp is Class A apparently and runs bloody hot so I have rigged up a USB fan above it to help to circulate the heat as it is sat on the bottom shelf of a heavy pine table. After an hour of use the room is notably warmer when we walk in. I need to calculate whether the amp is cheaper at heating the room than the radiators.
the central heating will be more cost effective i guess but with the amp your getting 2 for one..:D
Enossification
06-10-2022, 08:49
the central heating will be more cost effective i guess but with the amp your getting 2 for one..:D
:thumbsup:
Enossification
06-10-2022, 08:54
OK so my observation of our smart meter display was as good as my knowledge of electronics. My amp consumes 720 Watts when switched on giving a cost of around 27 pence per hour. Even on standby my amp consumes 70 Watts or so. What a bloody time to buy the amp you always dreamed of owning.
depending on how often you use it, it may be worth switching it completely off when its not going to be used for a while.. it'll save 70w on all time.. the adage of amps requiring to be kept warm all time is imo a little wrong. 20 mins before listening, for me is all they really need.
and perhaps as Barry does, swap out the amp in summer for one that doesnt heat the house for you. if your amp is in a spare room, you could turn down the radiator in that room so you get benefit of the heat when its on.
Enossification
06-10-2022, 09:02
depending on how often you use it, it may be worth switching it completely off when its not going to be used for a while.. it'll save 70w on all time.. the adage of amps requiring to be kept warm all time is imo a little wrong. 20 mins before listening, for me is all they really need.
and perhaps as Barry does, swap out the amp in summer for one that doesnt heat the house for you. if your amp is in a spare room, you could turn down the radiator in that room so you get benefit of the heat when its on.
Thank you Grant. Sound advice (!)
hifinutt
06-10-2022, 10:49
£5100 estimated bill .... oh my gosh thats utterly appalling . hope you find something cheaper .
You guys really have scary estimated bills
I am just wondering if that will happen here.
You guys really have scary estimated bills
I am just wondering if that will happen here.
I believe the electricity increase in France has been capped at 4%. That is the advantage of having essential utilities still under state control - unlike here in the UK. :doh:
utilities should always be state controlled.
walpurgis
06-10-2022, 16:47
utilities should always be state controlled.
As should all essential services. I'd add basic versions of house sales, legal services and funerals, etc. to the list.
If the Tories could get away with it they'd privatise the government (and probably let the Yanks win the tender :rolleyes:).
As should all essential services. I'd add basic versions of house sales, legal services and funerals, etc. to the list.
If the Tories could get away with it they'd privatise the government (and probably let the Yanks win the tender :rolleyes:).
indeed; i agree..
Well, it was Thatcher who sold off the "family silver" for a quick fix. That was bad enough, but later legislation was introduced whereby foreign states and companies could buy into them. So that is why one of our water and one of the electricity companies are French owned. Our EDF bills are no doubt subsidising French consumers.
hifi_dave
06-10-2022, 17:47
Yes, we are subsidising French consumers. Very few countries allow their utilities to be owned by foreign companies. No wonder our bills are so ridiculously high.
As I said previously, the energy companies are grossly inflating their estimated bills in order to build up their coffers. Not just me spreading rumours, Martin Lewis and one of the BBC consumer experts said exactly the same. So if you have an enormous estimated bill, you just have to refuse to pay and work out a more sensible charge.
Well, it was Thatcher who sold off the "family silver" for a quick fix. That was bad enough, but later legislation was introduced whereby foreign states and companies could buy into them. So that is why one of our water and one of the electricity companies are French owned. Our EDF bills are no doubt subsidising French consumers.
for the few things she did well, there are hundreds she did wrong. unless your a right wing capatalist of course.. ms truss wants to copy her
I believe the electricity increase in France has been capped at 4%. That is the advantage of having essential utilities still under state control - unlike here in the UK. :doh:
The UK government still have the ability to regulate fuel prices.
The reason that the French government capped the rise at 4% is because otherwise the French would have been out on the street ripping up the cobbles and chucking them at the cops. That's the real difference.
Nothing to do with the nationality of the people who own the energy companies. Which are publicly listed anyway so probably mostly owned by pension funds.
Buying shares in a power company might be a good way of recouping some of the losses from the bills going up, thinking about it. I wonder how their share prices have been doing recently?
I think that the railways, buses, water and drainage should all be government owned as with energy supply, an also the country should be self sufficient in food.
Truss may see herself as a new Thatcher, but she lacks the gravitas and depth she had, although much of what she did was damaging to people and to our cultural values.
Stranraer
06-10-2022, 20:23
[QUOTE=Enossification;1329293]OK so my observation of our smart meter display
To clarify, do NOT do the test I suggested using readings from the in room wireless display (In Home Display Device) that comes with the meter itself. That works on an algorithm based on average usage. They're a useful bit of kit generally but this is why they always go bonkers when you switch the kettle on in the first few weeks. For my test, take reads from the actual electric meter (the box that has the electric cable from the street wired into it).
Stranraer
06-10-2022, 20:30
As I said previously, the energy companies are grossly inflating their estimated bills i
To be fair to the bastids, if you give regular meter reads to them any estimated usage should be fairly spot on. They will always argue that it's better to (reasonably) over estimate than under, to avoid large catch up bills for the customer. The regulator would agree with this.
The UK government still have the ability to regulate fuel prices.
The reason that the French government capped the rise at 4% is because otherwise the French would have been out on the street ripping up the cobbles and chucking them at the cops. That's the real difference.
That's the way to do it - though it's not the way we do things: here we just whinge and whine. Actually, the French government is the major shareholder (51%) in EDF, so their word goes.
Nothing to do with the nationality of the people who own the energy companies. Which are publicly listed anyway so probably mostly owned by pension funds.
Buying shares in a power company might be a good way of recouping some of the losses from the bills going up, thinking about it. I wonder how their share prices have been doing recently?
I'll have a word with my financial advisor who knows about these things. I wouldn't be surprised if my portfolio didn't already have shares in some utilities.
To be fair to the bastids, if you give regular meter reads to them any estimated usage should be fairly spot on. They will always argue that it's better to (reasonably) over estimate than under, to avoid large catch up bills for the customer. The regulator would agree with this.
Agreed - but how frequent is "regular": quarterly; monthly, weekly?
Stranraer
06-10-2022, 21:25
Agreed - but how frequent is "regular": quarterly; monthly, weekly?
If you've not submitted them often in the past I'd do it monthly for a year to show seasonal peaks n troughs.
Quarterly after that. Historic reads are passed from one supplier to another following the customer's switch of provider, so it's always worth doing to avoid unrealistic estimates.
Slightly bizarrely my SS power amp, a Quad Artera consumes 750w max whilst my valve monoblocks, Icon MB90 consume 200w max each. I think the extra heat might be worth having this winter. The news today was reporting the possibility of power cuts this winter. If that does happen then I think there well may be a rather pointed response from the public towards the government. It is after all entirely down to politicians short term thinking, if that's not being too charitable to describe it thus.
Martin
Pigmy Pony
07-10-2022, 06:21
Many years ago (late 70s) a friend rented a flat in an ancient building shared by other tenants, a judo club and a couple of small businesses. The wiring was ancient. Somehow he discovered that one of the wall sockets did not affect his meter. He used that socket for EVERYTHING. How he did not cause a fire I've no idea.
I predict there will be an increase in the amount of meter-tampering this winter, with some dire consequences.
Firebottle
07-10-2022, 06:28
[QUOTE=MartinS;1329381]Slightly bizarrely my SS power amp, a Quad Artera consumes 750w max /QUOTE]
Are you reading that rating off the back or the user guide? If so that is the rating for MAXIMUM output which in a domestic setting at least will never be used.
Actual consumption will depend on volume level but will definitely be a lot lower in normal use.
walpurgis
07-10-2022, 07:17
I predict there will be an increase in the amount of meter-tampering this winter, with some dire consequences.
I think you're probably right. Plenty of Idiots around.
AJSki2fly
07-10-2022, 07:25
[QUOTE=MartinS;1329381]Slightly bizarrely my SS power amp, a Quad Artera consumes 750w max /QUOTE]
Are you reading that rating off the back or the user guide? If so that is the rating for MAXIMUM output which in a domestic setting at least will never be used.
Actual consumption will depend on volume level but will definitely be a lot lower in normal use.
My Krell runs on Solar power or battery, it’s draws 400-500Wh, when I run out of power I’ll dig out the exercise bike and pedal fast to drive a generator to run it. :eek:
Pigmy Pony
07-10-2022, 14:37
[QUOTE=Firebottle;1329386]
My Krell runs on Solar power or battery, it’s draws 400-500Wh, when I run out of power I’ll dig out the exercise bike and pedal fast to drive a generator to run it. :eek:
I bet all those hapless souls who pay 30 quid a month gym membership don't realise that their frantic cycling and treadmilling is keeping the gym's sunbeds and saunas going ;)
I used to have a hamster when I was a youth and it would run in its wheel all night. Couldn't that be harnessed somehow? Like a couple of million of them doing shifts?
Use an old warehouse or factory. I know they would need to be fed but you could feed them on the stuff that supermarkets chuck out. Just mash it into a paste.
Wouldn't cost much since you start with two and breed them. And you could take in lost and abandoned ones as well, remove some weight off the RSPCA at this critical time of year.
Pigmy Pony
07-10-2022, 21:41
I used to have a hamster when I was a youth and it would run in its wheel all night. Couldn't that be harnessed somehow? Like a couple of million of them doing shifts?
Use an old warehouse or factory. I know they would need to be fed but you could feed them on the stuff that supermarkets chuck out. Just mash it into a paste.
Wouldn't cost much since you start with two and breed them. And you could take in lost and abandoned ones as well, remove some weight off the RSPCA at this critical time of year.
Could be onto something there. Staff turnover will be a bit hectic though, hamsters only last about a year. But I suppose they could be 'repurposed' - it would only take a few hundred hamster pelts to make a winter warming gilet, or even an eiderdown for the less fashion conscious.
Make them into cat food when they peg it.
Mine lived for three years but I used to let him out to run around the living room for a few hours every night. He did chew the carpet up a bit in the corner behind the telly though.
Pigmy Pony
08-10-2022, 06:41
Make them into cat food when they peg it.
Mine lived for three years but I used to let him out to run around the living room for a few hours every night. He did chew the carpet up a bit in the corner behind the telly though.
He stuck around for three years? That's some going. I got one for my daughter and it only lasted six months. Waste of bloody money, I should have gone for the extended warranty. I was glad to see the back of it tbh, made a right racket all night, slept all day. I bought him this huge cage with all the toys, and what thanks did I get? He bit me, the ungrateful little brat.
In hindsight I don't think he enjoyed me doing keepie ups with his hamster ball with him in it.
So according to my now set up smart meter, the sugden uses 3-4p an hour, the orimaluna more like 9-10p an hour.
So according to my now set up smart meter, the sugden uses 3-4p an hour, the orimaluna more like 9-10p an hour.
still not that much in the scheme of things unless it's on 12 hours a day every day.
I think I do on average about 6 hours listening a week so I'll be keeping my old Krell. :)
I'm maybe an hour twice a week then a couple of hours both Saturday and Sunday. Using the oven is the shocker.. and also the washing machine and iron!
I'm maybe an hour twice a week then a couple of hours both Saturday and Sunday. Using the oven is the shocker.. and also the washing machine and iron!
what's an iron? :D
I use those M&S 'none-iron' shirts for work, expensive but it's a one-time hit and no faffing about on a Sunday night with ironing boards and that. Washing machine use unavoidable until they invent clothes that clean themselves though
walpurgis
08-10-2022, 08:41
what's an iron? :D
I still have one somewhere I think. Not seen it for maybe fifteen years.
ive a ironing station, but rarely use it now. dry clothes carefully and i can get away with it mostly.. im old so folk expect a wrinkle or two anyway lol.
only got microwave combi oven and try to use it mostly on micro if pos... i do a lot of hand washing too
I still have one somewhere I think. Not seen it for maybe fifteen years.
I ironed a t-shirt a few months back but only because it was in a right state. I've actually got a really fancy iron with steam jets and all that malarky, had it decades, only has a couple of minutes of use in all that time. I know people who spend a couple of hours every week 'doing the ironing'. I'd rather shoot myself in the head.
I ironed a t-shirt a few months back but only because it was in a right state. I've actually got a really fancy iron with steam jets and all that malarky, had it decades, only has a couple of minutes of use in all that time. I know people who spend a couple of hours every week 'doing the ironing'. I'd rather shoot myself in the head.
i always liked ironing shirts for some odd reason.... bizzare really..:eek:
when i had wifie and daughter here i was never stopped ironing lol
What about ironing bedding? You must iron your bedding???
get things like this lol
https://www.dunelm.com/product/non-iron-plain-dye-ivory-duvet-cover-1000099658?defaultSkuId=30145306&ds_c=Bedding_Plain+Dye-SmartShopping_%5BGOO-PLA-BEDDING-PLAIN%5D&gclid=CjwKCAjwv4SaBhBPEiwA9YzZvDLJJNLTOxfkmVHWWbv3 B-gnHG9P3KD6JYkyZTv6eCI_-tQ1En_AghoC-GUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
walpurgis
08-10-2022, 10:38
What about ironing bedding? You must iron your bedding???
Hmm. Never tried ironing a duvet :).
I'm shocked. Audiophiles that don't iron clothes or bedding :D
What about ironing bedding? You must iron your bedding???
Got to confess I've never even considered it.
still not that much in the scheme of things unless it's on 12 hours a day every day.
My system can be on as much as 12 hours a day when I am at home: I listen to the radio through it as well as listening to music.
I think I do on average about 6 hours listening a week so I'll be keeping my old Krell. :)
That's not a lot of time - less than an hour a day.
My system can be on as much as 12 hours a day when I am at home: I listen to the radio through it as well as listening to music.
That's not a lot of time - less than an hour a day.
I'm out at work most of the day and we have the radio on all day at work so I don't feel the need for a musical fix in the evenings so much. Usually I just have a few hours listening session on Saturday and another on Sunday.
I'm shocked. Audiophiles that don't iron clothes or bedding :D
Well, I do - the thought of wearing non-ironed socks is inconceivable! :lol:
But seriously, and to reply to Macca's comment, I listen to music whilst I iron. I have a whole section of "music to iron to" in my collection. :D
Well, I do - the thought of wearing non-ironed socks is inconceivable! :lol:
But seriously, and to reply to Macca's comment, I listen to music whilst I iron. I have a whole section of "music to iron to" in my collection. :D
i used to iron my sock too...lol. i dont wear them now really. or rarely
Sherwood
08-10-2022, 11:36
I used to iron all clothes when I was living in Botswana and Namibia but especially my underpants.
This will explain why:
https://www.healthline.com/health/mango-fly
i used to iron my sock too...lol. i dont wear them now really. or rarely
I don't even pair match them. They're all black so I just grab any two from off the pile.
I used to iron all clothes when I was living in Botswana and Namibia but especially my underpants.
This will explain why:
https://www.healthline.com/health/mango-fly
That would probably motivate me to do the ironing too.
Sherwood
08-10-2022, 11:45
Visualise a non fatal but still gruesome scene from Alien!
That would probably motivate me to do the ironing too.
i always pressed my pants too. trousers got steam pressed with a damp towel. not jeans or my moleskins tho(which i cant get decent ones at a decent price now, so back to wearing jeans). odd that i pretty much can get through the month without touching an iron now :D...just shows what 'state of mind' can produce.. i do hoover tho, but with a rechargeable hoover. great gadget
Got to confess I've never even considered it.
Try it, getting into nice freshly ironed bedding is a great experience. :D
Pigmy Pony
08-10-2022, 17:38
Try it, getting into nice freshly ironed bedding is a great experience. :D
I have to agree with that - my live-in ironer does a top job. Bedding is the only thing that gets ironed normally. Though if I lived on my Bill it wouldn't top my 'essential chores' list.
We probably save a fortune by not ironing stuff - Mrs. P. reckons the tumble dryer knocks most of the creases out :)
Not sure if I agree - though it might be true for some materials/fabrics.
Wouldn't dream of wearing un-ironed clothes.
Try it, getting into nice freshly ironed bedding is a great experience. :D
I've experienced it in hotels so I know what you mean.
The great thing about valve amps is that you get too heat your home at the same time as listening to music so a piece of kit that has dual purpose!
I would say they are actually an energy saver and because you dont have to turn your heating on great for the environment.
Pigmy Pony
09-10-2022, 01:50
The great thing about valve amps is that you get too heat your home at the same time as listening to music so a piece of kit that has dual purpose!
I would say they are actually an energy saver and because you dont have to turn your heating on great for the environment.
Funny the things we tell our spouses to justify our toys :D
Funny the things we tell our spouses to justify our toys :D
Yes indeed I have made all sorts of convoluted justifications in the past:lol:
Pigmy Pony
09-10-2022, 05:56
My usual one is that it keeps me out of the pub. My drinking contemporaries spend waay more than I do on their hobby.
Lawrence001
09-10-2022, 06:12
My usual one is that it keeps me out of the pub. My drinking contemporaries spend waay more than I do on their hobby.Exactly my excuse but it happens to be true. Anyone who saw me at the Wam show knows what I'm like when I haven't got my system [emoji23]
Pigmy Pony
09-10-2022, 06:27
Exactly my excuse but it happens to be true. Anyone who saw me at the Wam show knows what I'm like when I haven't got my system [emoji23]
Lawrence, I did see you at the Wam show for all of five seconds - you stuck your head round the door, told someone to say Lawrence001 been round, then was gone before I could get off my arse to say hi... Way too quick for me, like a room-hopping ninja :)
Maybe next time, if the asylum seekers don't get the place first.
Lawrence001
09-10-2022, 06:30
Lawrence, I did see you at the Wam show for all of five seconds - you stuck your head round the door, told someone to say Lawrence001 been round, then was gone before I could get off my arse to say hi... Way too quick for me, like a room-hopping ninja :)
Maybe next time, if the asylum seekers don't get the place first.Oh sorry I was looking for someone at one point, I missed the rendezvous as I got clobbered to help with something. Which room was it?
Pigmy Pony
09-10-2022, 06:48
Oh I can't remember that, so many rooms, so little time. I remember there were speakers :)
Lawrence001
09-10-2022, 06:58
Oh yes that room with the speakers, I thought it was infinitely better than the ones without any.
Pigmy Pony
09-10-2022, 07:32
Oh yes that room with the speakers, I thought it was infinitely better than the ones without any.
I think those rooms were called toilets. Where you could still hear some interesting sounds. Probably due to the curry night.
The great thing about valve amps is that you get to heat your home at the same time as listening to music so a piece of kit that has dual purpose!
I would say they are actually an energy saver and because you don't have to turn your heating on great for the environment.
Only if you live in one room or a bed-sit.
Funny the things we tell our spouses to justify our toys :D
I don't tell my partner anything about my toys: my collection of cameras or pick cartridges, or amplifiers - let alone CDs and records! Neither does she tell me about hers: shoes, handbags, or frocks.
Most 30W rms class 'a' valve amps pull between 280-340Wrms @ IDLE or maybe 2 or 3W when you are thrashing them, Class 'a' the devices (valve or FET's) are run 'hard on' .
Factor in your dac maybe 40w, streamer maybe 60 watts, pre amp maybe anothher 60w and your around .5Kw s 22p an hour to listen to music
Pigmy Pony
09-10-2022, 13:51
Most 30W rms class 'a' valve amps pull between 280-340Wrms @ IDLE or maybe 2 or 3W when you are thrashing them, Class 'a' the devices (valve or FET's) are run 'hard on' .
Factor in your dac maybe 40w, streamer maybe 60 watts, pre amp maybe anothher 60w and your around .5Kw s 22p an hour to listen to music
Something to consider here James: that total electricity cost Tony speaks of is about half of what the stylus wear on your 2M Black is costing... still a lot cheaper than most other hobbies, like getting pissed at the weekend :)
Enossification
09-10-2022, 16:06
There is one way to defeat my gas guzzling power amp. Switch on my headphone amplifier and plug in the 'phones.
Poor bloody substitute though.
Pigmy Pony
10-10-2022, 15:38
There is one way to defeat my gas guzzling power amp. Switch on my headphone amplifier and plug in the 'phones.
Poor bloody substitute though.
But at least it'll keep your ears warm, even in the depths of winter :)
Filterlab
31-10-2022, 18:21
it's weird for a country (UK) that has an abundance of North Sea gas we are paying much more than our neighbouring EU countries some of which (Germany) don't have gas as a natural resource and have historically bought much of this from Russia.
i can't help feeling that we are being taken for mugs
We are. And the lentil chomping, road blocking, eco twats are helping either.
We don't have a lot of gas in our north sea fields alas. They are all pretty much drained.
Plenty oil but not really the type that our refineries can use so it's sold abroad.
Wakefield Turntables
31-10-2022, 18:59
A valve amp system may cost less than 50p a night to run but it dosen't take into consideration the cost of a decent bottle of single malt which works out to be more than 50p :lolsign: whilst listening to Jazz on cold/wet evenings.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.