MOFI

[struth]

Audiophile Label MoFi Sued For Using Digital In “All Analog” Vinyl Reissues


https://www.stereogum.com/2197131/audiophile-label-mofi-sued-for-using-digital-in-all-analog-vinyl-reissues/news/

[rmcin626]

Lots of discussions about this the last few weeks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ali Tait]

Aye, not surprising they are getting sued, should have been more honest in the first place.

Not that it makes a difference sonically imo, some of their releases are superb.

[Lawrence001]

Yep sound good but many paid a premium to satisfy their concerns with digital steps in recording and will need compensating it they were sold a pup.

If the records don't sound as good to them now you can say it's silly but they paid the premium to not have to worry and want the product they paid for.

[mikeyb]

I would think that most bands record digitally these days anyway.

I know Fleetwood Mac do, cos I asked Mick when I met him a few years ago ;)

The only thing they record to tape is his drums

10s of 1000s of master tapes were lost in the Universal Studios fire years ago, so I would expect lots of masters to be digital now, if only to preserve them.

I wonder how many Mofi buyers can now hear the digital on their purchases [emoji23]

[struth]

i would think that most bands record digitally these days anyway.

I know fleetwood mac do, cos i asked mick when i met him a few years ago ;)

the only thing they record to tape is his drums

10s of 1000s of master tapes were lost in the universal studios fire years ago, so i would expect lots of masters to be digital now, if only to preserve them.

I wonder how many mofi buyers can now hear the digital on their purchases [emoji23]

namedropper:d

[mikeyb]

namedropper:dWho moi?

[emoji23]

[Cas]

One of the very good reasons I stopped buying new vinyl, many are just making vinyl from digital recordings, and the point of that is, making money.

[Pigmy Pony]

namedropper:d

I once went to Fleetwood. I just wanted to put that out there :ner:

[Pigmy Pony]

I hope all this isn't going to affect the value of their records. My one MoFi album is my retirement fund.

[struth]

I once went to Fleetwood. I just wanted to put that out there :ner:

got a feeling a spent a week there one day.;)

[Lawrence001]

I hope all this isn't going to affect the value of their records. My one MoFi album is my retirement fund.If they go bust it might go up in value. Should cover two nights in a care home rather than one.

[WOStantonCS100]

Hmmm...

I bought the 24-192 to vinyl Beatles reissues (some of them) and I don't hate them but... I knew what I was getting from the go and the price was reasonable.

I have had personal use of 24-192/DSD master recorders for years, maybe even a decade, now. I have no issue with a DSD step (specifically above DSD64) in the chain. I would much rather have a high rate DSD to vinyl or even a 16-44.1 to vinyl (using a superior DAC than what I've got) than a CD. :sofa:

Having said that... I have an enormous issue with purposeful omissions of truth which Mofi has admitted to. I only have a few Mofi titles bought used years ago and at extremely sane prices. Ethically, I have got a real problem with Mofi at this point. I have not before and surely will not now seek to buy any of their titles for the kind of cash typically asked for; used and very reasonable maybe... maybe...

Sonically, my The Doors s/t Mofi seems to be down in volume and does not sound miles better than my non-Mofi of the same. I realize others are quite good. Yet, if there ever was any drive in me to run right out and grab a Mofi, it's completely gone, now. I do not wish the company as a whole to disappear but maybe they should just ditch the "Mofi" brand altogether, replace all the executives and start over with a different branding, more honest/forthcoming executives and start with a clean slate.

Like it or not the reputation of Mofi is forever tainted; can't put that genie back in the bottle.

My tuppence for what it's worth.

[Pigmy Pony]

got a feeling a spent a week there one day.;)

it's where they make Fisherman's Friend lozenges. The town also has Freeport Outlet Village, where you can buy name brands in unpopular sizes and colours for a lot less than RRP, and is the reason I once went on purpose. Place is said to have a certain aroma when the wind is right, hence the saying "Smells like a wet night in Fleetwood".

Anyway, back to topic: In a recent survey asking the citizens of Fleetwood what they thought about MoFi's deception, 100% said they had never heard of MoFi.

[Macca]

Mo Fi have never stated that their production chain is all-analogue. People just got that idea into their heads because MoFi never explicitly stated that it wasn't all analogue.

It's quite funny that people assumed that Mo-Fi were running fragile and valuable analogue master tapes repeatedly in order to make stampers.

Plus I doubt that many of the Mo-Fi releases were made in pressing plants that used analogue cutting heads so that's another A/D-D/A step right there.

The commotion over this is absurd. Even if they were all-analogue productions just moving the recording from the tape to a vinyl record already degrades it massively, whereas moving it to a digital file does not degrade it at all. So why buy the vinyl for better sound quality? None of it makes any sense.

[walpurgis]

I spotted a 'techradar' article about the subject this morning: https://www.techradar.com/features/your-expensive-analog-vinyl-record-reissue-is-actuallydigital

[karma1967]

namedropper:d

ha ha well i used to knock about with bob weston,i even re veneered his jbl Aquarius's for him.

[Pete The Cat]

The people complaining about this don't seem to be saying that the records sound suboptimal. The issue seems to be one of philosophical principle and a sense of being misled sticking in the throat. I'd have said that MFSL will survive this since the end products are generally decent, if very pricey, and seem to be oversubscribed. But where a US legal action will leave them will probably depend on what insurance they do or don't have.

[Macca]

The people complaining about this don't seem to be saying that the records sound suboptimal. The issue seems to be one of philosophical principle and a sense of being misled sticking in the throat. I'd have said that MFSL will survive this since the end products are generally decent, if very pricey, and seem to be oversubscribed. But where a US legal action will leave them will probably depend on what insurance they do or don't have.

There seems to be a lot of people who - quite sensibly - don't care about the digital step and are happy with their purchases so I agree there is a future for MoFi.

I am wondering if they ever did claim they used an all analogue chain. Some seem to think so but have not seen any examples of this. The examples of their advertising I have seen are carefully worded. They don't mention the DSD copy but they never explicitly say the chain is all-analogue either.

I don't know what effect that would have on the outcome of the lawsuit, U.S legal process can be very strange and I'm not a lawyer. But seems to me if they didn't claim it then they can't be held responsible for what some punters imagined they were getting.

[AJSki2fly]

I hope all this isn't going to affect the value of their records. My one MoFi album is my retirement fund.

Your going to be working for a long time yet then.:D

[Pigmy Pony]

Your going to be working for a long time yet then.:D

Oh yes, I fully expect to peg it while at work. I'll just fall off a ladder one day and that'll be the story of me. Perhaps my nm MFSL copy of Allmann Brothers "Eat a Peach" will buy a few vol au vents at my funeral :)

[struth]

Oh yes, I fully expect to peg it while at work. I'll just fall off a ladder one day and that'll be the story of me. Perhaps my nm MFSL copy of Allmann Brothers "Eat a Peach" will buy a few vol au vents at my funeral :)

what makes you think your getting a funeral??:ner:

sure your pretty savvy on a ladder steve.

[Pigmy Pony]

what makes you think your getting a funeral??:ner:

sure your pretty savvy on a ladder steve.

I have fallen off a couple of times, but fortunately I'm good at landing. Like a cat, me :) Though I didn't mean that falling off would bring about my demise, the other way round actually. Like Arthur (my budgie) did at the ripe old age of 16 :)

[Qwin]

It's quite funny that people assumed that Mo-Fi were running fragile and valuable analogue master tapes repeatedly in order to make stampers.

You missed a few processes out Martin

They don't make the negative stampers from the tapes, they make them from positive metal Mothers, which in tern were made from a single negative metal master, which was made from the original positive wax/lacquer cut from the master tape.

The positive records are made from the negative stampers and as these wear out after about 100k pressings, they make new stampers from the positive metal mother stored at the plant.

They only go back to the tapes if the archived metal negative master is lost or damaged. This is necessary because the cut wax/lacquer is lost in the process of making the negative metal master.

If they do a remastered/remixed version then they would also go back to the original tapes of course, but only to produce a negative metal master.

It really surprised me, how many positive to negative to positive processes are involved and that such high fidelity comes out of the end product.

[Macca]

You missed a few processes out Martin

They don't make the negative stampers from the tapes, they make them from positive metal Mothers, which in tern were made from a single negative metal master, which was made from the original positive wax/lacquer cut from the master tape.

The positive records are made from the negative stampers and as these wear out after about 100k pressings, they make new stampers from the positive metal mother stored at the plant.

They only go back to the tapes if the archived metal negative master is lost or damaged. This is necessary because the cut wax/lacquer is lost in the process of making the negative metal master.

If they do a remastered/remixed version then they would also go back to the original tapes of course, but only to produce a negative metal master.

It really surprised me, how many positive to negative to positive processes are involved and that such high fidelity comes out of the end product.

Ah okay. I was under the impression that the stamper did not last forever, is that not the case? If it did then surely that would effectively be the master at least for a vinyl pressing?

[Qwin]

No the (negative) stampers wear out and need replacing after approx 100k pressings.
The new stampers are made from the (positive) metal mother stored at the plant, which in tern is made from the (negative) metal master which is usually archived.

New or additional mothers, are made from the metal master if the original was damaged in the process of making new stampers, or if demand went up and additional plants were used and given their own mother.

In reality many pressing plants did/do not handle the making of Master/Mother/Stamper and this was/is handled by a specialist company, as it involves many electro plating techniques. They would just send new stampers to the pressing plant as they were requested.

[Swann36]

It’s great to get a different perspective on here from some other forums , I only have 1 Mofi Bill Withers live at Carnegie Hall, which does sound great to my ears.

Having said that I think the issue at hand is the Mofi marketing on my 2014 album cover it says “Original Master Recording” and “ultra analog” on each label, of course words can mean anything but the implication given by those words is or rather was clear in my mind, so for me it’s about trusting the company and it seems to many that they have broken that trust

[Firebottle]

'Ultra Analogue' could be twisted to mean anything.

Could it be you need 3 ears to gain full benefit? I jest but just what does it imply?

[struth]

https://mofi.com/pages/technologies

info on their processes, which show digital is used at some points.

[walpurgis]

'Ultra Analogue' could be twisted to mean anything.

Could it be you need 3 ears to gain full benefit? I jest but just what does it imply?

Either something is in analogue form or it isn't, I don't see how there can be various interpretations of analogue.

[Pigmy Pony]

They can't even spell 'analogue' properly, so who knows how their minds work.

[struth]

They can't even spell 'analogue' properly, so who knows how their minds work.

think analog is the american spelling..

[Pigmy Pony]

think analog is the american spelling..

Yes it is, nobody over there can spell it right.

Totally unrelated Tim Vine dad joke:

Went into a jewellers, said "I want to buy a watch"
"Analogue?"
"No, just a watch please"

My apologies, back to MoFi.

[Filterlab]

I once went to Fleetwood. I just wanted to put that out there :ner:

I've seen the sign for Fleetwood on the M6. :D

[Swann36]

Mac



Ooops thought I was in the one word daily for a moment

[Barry]

"Ultra Analogue" - Hmmm, what is it supposed to mean? Let's look at the etymology:

ultra, Latin for 'beyond'

analogue: early 19th century (as a noun); from French, from Greek analogon, neuter of analogos ‘proportionate’. analogos itself comes from ana + logos, meaning 'a word anew' or a 'words throughout'.

So if "ultra analogue" is to mean anything, it means going beyond using words throughout a message. How can you go beyond words? Use text-speak, or abbreviations perhaps?


No, it's nothing more than just a marketing slogan, designed to impress the gullible.

[Qwin]

Ha ha, come on Barry, isn't the whole audio industry built on marketing hype. :)

Manufacturers are always inventing new expressions to justify the latest price hike, almost as bad as the cosmetics industry, with their made up scientific sounding names.

Remember "Dynaflex" (RCA) a remarkable form of vinyl with better acoustic properties, so records could be made thinner.
Total hype to offset the real reason, that being the high price of oil/Plastic, so it was a cost cutting exercise.
There have been many such cases over the years and I'm sure there will be many more.

Audio hasn't much of a vocabulary anyway and we borrow from other disciplines to help express what we mean.
Terms like Bright, Warm, hard sounding, air, weight etc, etc are terms not originally meant for acoustics.

I can't remember the term analogue being used much, before digital came along. It was almost a reaction to digital, something that was not it, but better than saying non-digital, which could be construed as being inferior.

Maybe manufacturers are just trying to extend the vocabulary? I think not. :D

[struth]

"Ultra Analogue" - Hmmm, what is it supposed to mean? Let's look at the etymology:

ultra, Latin for 'beyond'

analogue: early 19th century (as a noun); from French, from Greek analogon, neuter of analogos ‘proportionate’. analogos itself comes from ana + logos, meaning 'a word anew' or a 'words throughout'.

So if "ultra analogue" is to mean anything, it means going beyond using words throughout a message. How can you go beyond words? Use text-speak, or abbreviations perhaps?


No, it's nothing more than just a marketing slogan, designed to impress the gullible.

i'm impressed:eyebrows:

[Pigmy Pony]

Went into a jewellers, said "I want to buy a watch"

"Analogue?"

"No, just a watch please"

I actually thought that 'analogue' came from 'analogous', meaning similar in effect but differing in form (my own definition). So I'm wrong.