The Law of Diminishing Returns

[Rush2112]

A recent opportunity to hear a system with a six figure price tag and a recent reply to the post "The end of the (upgrade) road" reminded me of the fact that hi-fi is as with so many things, subject to the "law of diminishing returns" the inevitable reality that the more we spend the less the incremental benefit. How we each perceive that truth and at what financial point we decide it to be the case is a personal choice. However, for the vast majority of us there is a point, which we sometimes take awhile to realise, when we discover that for every additional pound we spend we are getting less improvement each time, perhaps because we are still seeking that perfect sound!

I finally reached that point a couple of years ago when I purchased the Martin Logan Electromotion X, I heard Logans way back and for various reasons along the way they never became an acquisition, early on I didn't have and couldn't afford amps to drive them or the funds for them and when funds were available I didn't have a room big enough for them ! I always compared what I had to the tangible images produced by properly set up Logans. For me nothing else really achieved that sense of a perfomer stood in front of you I had some pretty close efforts, Sonus Faber Electa Amator mk 1's for instance. Logans, were notoriously hard to drive properly and were room sensitive too needing space from the rear and side walls and the listener which was hard to achieve in an average libing room. Newer models are less demanding but set up is still key, however, when right, OMG for me its audio nirvana.

So we are not all the same, we don't all like the same things, but when its right for you, it's right. So for me I'm there, yes there will be tweaks, maybe a replacement when something can't be repaired.

So I wish all of you a speedy journey to audio nirvana.

PS Would I buy the six figure system, hell no ! Its different but better no, not in anyway that leaves me saying that's the system for me.

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[Macca]

what's your power amp?

[Gazjam]

A recent opportunity to hear a system with a six figure price tag and a recent reply to the post "The end of the (upgrade) road" reminded me of the fact that hi-fi is as with so many things, subject to the "law of diminishing returns" the inevitable reality that the more we spend the less the incremental benefit. How we each perceive that truth and at what financial point we decide it to be the case is a personal choice. However, for the vast majority of us there is a point, which we sometimes take awhile to realise, when we discover that for every additional pound we spend we are getting less improvement each time, perhaps because we are still seeking that perfect sound!


Great post Mark.
Agree with this, for me I hit that point with my PS Audio gear.

they are bringing out their own streamer soon,
probably the last bit of kit I'll buy.

[Stratmangler]

what's your power amp?

Looks like this http://listeninn.com/Website/Used-Power-Amplifier/Krell-FPB-200C.htm

http://listeninn.com/Pictures-Used/Used-Power-Amplifier/Krell-FPB-200C-4.jpg

[Macca]

Tasty.

[Rush2112]

Krell FPB200c

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[Rush2112]

Love the Perfectwave transport and Directstream DAC was very tempted to buy the DAC last year but to be honest the Wadia isn't that far behind it and was replaced with a streaming capable model so was a bargain. The law of diminishing returns strikes again !!

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[Rush2112]

The power amp is booked in for a complete overhaul in August, its not done 175,000 hours like the preamp which is permanently powered up ( designed with no standby switch ) but it is the same age, both were bought new at the same time, so due some TLC ! The preamp has already been overhauled and just in time too ! See my post 175,000 hour service definitely overdue.

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[Rush2112]

The unsung hero in the system is the IOTA Signature Reference balanced phono stage,, recently upgraded to current spec. Since moving to full balanced mode for the vinyl front end and the ability to adjust gain and loading in the phono stage, who"s sound is truly stunning, I've moved the sound quality up more than several upgrades. I've heard some seriously expensive phono stages but the IOTA will give any of them more than a run for their money and at significantly lower cost.



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[Rush2112]

I have had my fair share of great amps from A&R Cambridge A60, MF A100, Michell Argo/Hera and MF CRPS with 2 MF P180, Audio Research LS7 with Lumley M120 monoblocks that was a glorious valve combo.

The Krell pairing just took everything to another level and to be honest much of what I've heard since is either different but not necessarily better, or just more of what I have but not much more and the price increases are significant.

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[AJSki2fly]

A very nice system you have there Mark,I too went through various amps, and have ended up with a Krell, a bit older than yours, it too took the overall SQ to another level.

At the moment I use an Audiolab 8300CDQ as pre-amp, which is very neutral, but it is probably the weakest link in the system and I really should consider seeking out a sensibly priced Krell pre, anyone got one knocking about?

[Macca]

A very nice system you have there Mark,I too went through various amps, and have ended up with a Krell, a bit older than yours, it too took the overall SQ to another level.

At the moment I use an Audiolab 8300CDQ as pre-amp, which is very neutral, but it is probably the weakest link in the system and I really should consider seeking out a sensibly priced Krell pre, anyone got one knocking about?

I'm also considering a Krell pre-amp. Nothing on Hi-Fi Shark right now, I think it's probably not going to be an easy item to locate in the UK.

[AJSki2fly]

I'm also considering a Krell pre-amp. Nothing on Hi-Fi Shark right now, I think it's probably not going to be an easy item to locate in the UK.

There was one about 5months ago, should have snapped it up[emoji848][emoji849]


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[Barry]

A recent opportunity to hear a system with a six figure price tag and a recent reply to the post "The end of the (upgrade) road" reminded me of the fact that hi-fi is as with so many things, subject to the "law of diminishing returns" the inevitable reality that the more we spend the less the incremental benefit. How we each perceive that truth and at what financial point we decide it to be the case is a personal choice. However, for the vast majority of us there is a point, which we sometimes take awhile to realise, when we discover that for every additional pound we spend we are getting less improvement each time, perhaps because we are still seeking that perfect sound!

I finally reached that point a couple of years ago when I purchased the Martin Logan Electromotion X, I heard Logans way back and for various reasons along the way they never became an acquisition, early on I didn't have and couldn't afford amps to drive them or the funds for them and when funds were available I didn't have a room big enough for them ! I always compared what I had to the tangible images produced by properly set up Logans. For me nothing else really achieved that sense of a perfomer stood in front of you I had some pretty close efforts, Sonus Faber Electa Amator mk 1's for instance. Logans, were notoriously hard to drive properly and were room sensitive too needing space from the rear and side walls and the listener which was hard to achieve in an average libing room. Newer models are less demanding but set up is still key, however, when right, OMG for me its audio nirvana.

So we are not all the same, we don't all like the same things, but when its right for you, it's right. So for me I'm there, yes there will be tweaks, maybe a replacement when something can't be repaired.

So I wish all of you a speedy journey to audio nirvana.

PS Would I buy the six figure system, hell no ! Its different but better no, not in anyway that leaves me saying that's the system for me.

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Lovely system Mark - well done! :)

I've been an admirer of Martin Logan ESLs ever since the SL-3. For various reasons I never did exchange my Quad ('57s) for a pair; and I'm unlikely to do so now.

I don't recognise the TT, but admire the SME V, and regard it as an ideal platform for a Koetsu.

There is a quiet satisfaction in aquiring a system that you can live with and enjoy, and stop the endless tail-chasing with so-called upgrades and equipment swapping.

Again well done.

[Rush2112]

I have to say the Krell KRC3 pre I use is from the generation before the "c" (cast) models which matched the "c" series power amps. The KRC 3 was so good that the entry level "c" pre amps with combined CD just didn't seem relevant let alone affordable !https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220705/acec91cc05f6786c11c567896fdd9ce3.jpg

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[Rush2112]

Thanks Barry - The turntable is Pink Triangle Anniversary SE. The SME V was a decision I have never regretted for a second, the build quality is exemplary as is the sound quality and set up adjustment is precise and never drifts. The Koetsu is a great match and the sound quality is just so musical and engaging. It replaced a Ortofon MC3000 mk2 which was again a very musical cartridge and capable of tracking the most challenging vinyl grooves but beware that fragile ceramic body !

I remember the Logan SL3's which at the time they were released I just couldn't get to work in my very low cieling listening room. My dealer demonstrated them to perfection but no matter what we tried in my room we just couldn't get them to sing !

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[Rush2112]

I'm sure there are a fair few Krells out there, Absolute Sounds did a great job as distributor back in the day of getting them reviewed and into their dealers, I met Pedro thier Sales Director once and he was a great advocate for Krell. Besides the pre and power amps there was a cracking integrated amp KAV 3000i

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[Macca]

I've got the original Absolute Sounds box and packaging for one of mine.