View Full Version : Bugger!
Ammonite Audio
26-08-2010, 17:20
I've just knocked the tip off my AT33PTG. Feck:steam:
Maybe I should go back to European cartridges with proper bolt from above mountings rather than the fiddly Jap nut and bolt devices. Having just attached the old Kontrapunkt B to the Ittok and got it set up in about one tenth of a second;) captive bolt holes are certainly a much more ergonomic solution. The Kontrapunkt B sounds pretty good, too.
I was contemplating getting an AT33EV, so maybe I should just get the AT33PTG retipped with a nice elliptical stylus?
Go for a London Decca you know it makes sense
Not in an Ittok if you value your hearing ;)
Get the 33PTG EsCo'd with a Paratrace stylus, or get a Troika as cheap as you can and do the same with it.
Having knocked more cantilevers off when tightening in my time (even with Ittoks in my lap) than I care to remember, I suggest using long Allen keys and with the short end as the lever in one hand and fine nosed pliers holding the nut with the other hand. This will keep your fingers away from the cartridge where slipping thumbs can do untold damage.
By the way, even stainless steel bolts can suffer wear in the Allen socket if overtightened too often. If tightening up tight, use fresh bolts and nuts each time - recommendation from experience..
Get the 33PTG EsCo'd with a Paratrace stylus
:exactly:
Not in an Ittok if you value your hearing ;)
Get the 33PTG EsCo'd with a Paratrace stylus, or get a Troika as cheap as you can and do the same with it.
Having knocked more cantilevers off when tightening in my time (even with Ittoks in my lap) than I care to remember, I suggest using long Allen keys and with the short end as the lever in one hand and fine nosed pliers holding the nut with the other hand. This will keep your fingers away from the cartridge where slipping thumbs can do untold damage.
By the way, even stainless steel bolts can suffer wear in the Allen socket if overtightened too often. If tightening up tight, use fresh bolts and nuts each time - recommendation from experience..
Opps should look better at the set up:doh:
Flyfisher
26-08-2010, 19:57
How about a Benz Micro Glider L2 sounded way better than a AT33PTG?
Ammonite Audio
26-08-2010, 21:09
How about a Benz Micro Glider L2 sounded way better than a AT33PTG?
I am looking at eBay!
How about a Benz Micro Glider L2 sounded way better than a AT33PTG?
Noted! ;)
Ammonite Audio
27-08-2010, 11:19
I am looking at eBay!
As it happens, I have stumbled upon a good offer on a new Glider L2, which I will take up. That will allow me to send both the AT33PTG and Kontrapunkt B in to ESC for examination and fettling while still having something decent to play records with.
Flyfisher
27-08-2010, 20:23
As it happens, I have stumbled upon a good offer on a new Glider L2, which I will take up. That will allow me to send both the AT33PTG and Kontrapunkt B in to ESC for examination and fettling while still having something decent to play records with.
Be interested to hear what you think of it.
Be very careful as mine had no stylus guard and the stylus is very proud, you would not want to repeat the demise of AT33PTG.
Good luck
Ammonite Audio
28-08-2010, 05:44
Be interested to hear what you think of it.
Be very careful as mine had no stylus guard and the stylus is very proud, you would not want to repeat the demise of AT33PTG.
Good luck
Indeed! The demise of the AT33PTG's diamond tip was actually due to a sideways swipe across the Clearaudio alignment gauge while aligning the cartridge body in the headshell, caused to a significant degree by faffing around with the archaic bolts from below. No such problem with the Benz, even if it is vulnerable in other ways. I presume that, sticking out at the front, the Glider's cantilever can be used easily to align the cartridge correctly?
Expert Stylus will take a look at the AT33PTG for their standard charge of £35 - the cantilever is undamaged and straight, and the diamond may still be there, in which case they will glue it back on if it's OK. If it needs a new tip, the cost will be £280, which is cheaper than a new cartridge, but not much. I shall spend the £35 and take it from there, but it will be at least October before my turn in ESC's queue is called. So, in the meantime I shall get the Benz and I admit to still being tempted by a new AT33EV (horrible bolt mounting and all).
Flyfisher
28-08-2010, 06:45
Shuggie
I fixed both my AT33PTG and Benz Micro Glider L2 in the same way with fixing through the headshell from the top with just a small nut and in the case of the Glider a circular nut.
Once I had the nut attached all I had to do was use the allen key above the headshell to tighten up. I always try and fix from the top & keep fingers off the cantelever.
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii46/flyfisher_album/G99/th_2010_0718_101141.jpg (http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii46/flyfisher_album/G99/?action=view¤t=2010_0718_101141.jpg)
Ammonite Audio
28-08-2010, 08:55
Ooh! I thought that the Benz had threaded holes, but I can see now that it has lugs. Still a good cartridge at a good price, though.
Ammonite Audio
28-08-2010, 16:21
I took some photos of the AT33PTG, using a cheap USB microscope. That device won't zoom in on the actual diamond, but it's definitely there, so maybe I haven't damaged it at all. The astonishing thing about the AT ML stylus is its tiny size - it's dwarfed by the large blob of adhesive holding it to the cantilever. If I can get hold of a decent microscope, it will be worth having a very close look at the state of the tip.
http://i38.tinypic.com/s5kdcl.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/aaj312.jpg
http://i37.tinypic.com/2hhk32o.jpg
Bugger! And we were just chatting about the withdrawal of the AT33PTG the other day. From your microscope shots I would say it's definitely worth getting Expert to look at it, the cantilever is good and they should be able to replace what's left of the stylus.
How does the Benz sound?
Ammonite Audio
28-08-2010, 17:28
Martin
The trouble is that ESC cannot look at it until at least October, possibly later. I might send it up to Johnny at Audio Origami for a check, when I send the KD-750 arm for a fettle. It would be lovely if I have not damaged the AT33PTG, but I'm not prepared to risk any vinyl in the short term!
I haven't got the Benz yet. I need to send in a trade-in MC which means either the AT-OC5 (which I'd rather keep), or the DL-103, which will never really flick my switch. The Denon is brand new, fitted with an Isokinetik stabiliser, so maybe I should sell that to someone here who will trade in a knackered MC cartridge for me to trade in.
Does anyone have a knackered MC cartridge that they don't want to keep? Does anyone want to buy the DL-103?
I'm fairly sure I have an AT-OC7 lying around, but finding it would be another matter. I also have a Grado Prestige Gold doing nothing, but that's still got many hours left on it.
Reid Malenfant
28-08-2010, 17:33
The Denon is brand new, fitted with an Isokinetik stabiliser, so maybe I should sell that to someone here who will trade in a knackered MC cartridge for me to trade in.
Does anyone have a knackered MC cartridge that they don't want to keep? Does anyone want to buy the DL-103?
Hi, tell me about this modded Denon if you please ;) I have a rather unserviceable JVC MC2E :doh: I'm interested as i'm looking for a new MC cartridge & i was just reading this.
Call it luck or fate or possibly being in the right place at the right time :eyebrows:
I have an OC30 with the diamond missing. Unlike your 33 Hugo, all there is is the adhesive and a tiny crater where the diamond was. The OC30 sounded a tad beefier than the standard OC9 as I recall and one day I shall send it to EsCo to find out.
Can't wait to see what Johnnie can do for your KD750 tonearm. perhaps he can use yours as a guinea pig :lolsign: If the tonearm base can take a mini-din cardas plug then that would be great as I have a cable ready made..
Commiserations! I did the same thing with my Dynavector 10x5 the other day when giving a good dust to my Notts Analogue with the platter off whilst changing the oil. Luckily the 10x5 was getting towrds 2000 hours anyway & Dynavector do an exchange scheme which helps. And lo & behold -Hurrah- the new 10x5 has captive bolts from the top AND a stylus guard which makes mounting a pleasure rather than a heart in the mouth operation. In addition it comes with a good stylus brush & 'green sandpaper' for stylus cleaning. Anybody know about the 'green sandpaper' by the way - its the first I have seen of it?
Anybody know about the 'green sandpaper' by the way - its the first I have seen of it?
I believe Linn introduced it?
Reid Malenfant
29-08-2010, 10:00
I seem to remember some being given away with a hifi magazine as that's where the same stuff i had came from. Very odd stuff indeed as it had a plastic backing rather than card or fabric :scratch: Only about 1" square freebie but good stuff none the less.
I wish i could find it, haven't seen it in years :doh:
Ammonite Audio
29-08-2010, 10:51
Expert Stylus recommend some sort of green putty that they provide with all their stuff. I have found that melamine foam (the Magic Eraser stuff) works very well, but I do worry about whether it can damage the stylus or its mounting.
The "Green Sandpaper" was made by 3-M as I recall.
The best I've found is the AT 607 stylus cleaning liquid - This stuff brought a supposedly knackered Stilton OC9 back from the dead and is quite safe on the different styli I'm smothered it on. One little bottle lasts for years too.
The best I've found is the AT 607 stylus cleaning liquid.
Seconded.
The name of the green sandpaper is "Green Imperial Lapping Film" developed by 3M for polishing fibre optics! Seems to work but turn the volume down or you will give yourself a heart attack!
Ammonite Audio
03-09-2010, 19:54
A new Benz Glider SL will be in my mitts next Tuesday. Should work well in the SA-750D and Ittok. No stylus guard, so I shall have to be extra careful with this one! If the AT33PTG turns out to be knackered, I shall still have it retipped.
http://www.analogueseduction.net/pub/files/Cartridges/.thumbnails/1248629610_glider-sl_w390_h390.jpg
Did you do a deal with Branko?
Ammonite Audio
04-09-2010, 06:35
Did you do a deal with Branko?
I am pleased to say that I have not ;) The Glider is coming from a UK Benz Micro agent.
Flyfisher
04-09-2010, 09:23
I found that my Benz Micro Glider L2 sounded very average in the 12"Jelco, yet when I put it in the Xenon it really came to life.
In fact the BM set up instructions call for a medium mass arm which the 12" Jelco is certainly not, don't know what the mass of the 9" Jelco is?
Ammonite Audio
04-09-2010, 12:27
I found that my Benz Micro Glider L2 sounded very average in the 12"Jelco, yet when I put it in the Xenon it really came to life.
In fact the BM set up instructions call for a medium mass arm which the 12" Jelco is certainly not, don't know what the mass of the 9" Jelco is?
The 9" Jelco is a much lower mass arm than your 12", and according to the tables over at Vinyl Engine, it should work pretty much as the AT33PTG does.
Ammonite Audio
08-09-2010, 10:11
The Glider LS has arrived - it's tiny and very vulnerable! I'm going to have to take great care with this, and use only non-magnetic tools.
Aye, and keep yer doggies well away from it! ;)
I'm curious to know how it sounds, and also which tonearm compliments it best.....
Marco.
Ammonite Audio
16-09-2010, 16:25
I have amused myself today examining various stylus tips using a really good Olympus stereo microscope. Sadly, the AT33PTG's stylus tip is definitely broken off, leaving an ugly stump, so it will definitely have to be retipped by Expert Stylus Company. For comparison, I looked at my old AT-OC5 and found the stylus to be in good nick, with no obvious wear; however its profile is very much elliptical with quite a fat radius to the edges, which probably explains its gentle approach to detail retrieval. My two Ortofons - Kontrapunkt B and 2M Black have little works of art stuck to their cantilevers - they are so neat and precise, and I'm glad to see no obvious wear to the KB's tip. It is already booked in with Expert Stylus Company for a service, though.
I wish that I could have taken pictures, but there's no such facility on the microscope that I have borrowed.
twelvebears
16-09-2010, 16:51
I have amused myself today examining various stylus tips using a really good Olympus stereo microscope. Sadly, the AT33PTG's stylus tip is definitely broken off, leaving an ugly stump, so it will definitely have to be retipped by Expert Stylus Company. For comparison, I looked at my old AT-OC5 and found the stylus to be in good nick, with no obvious wear; however its profile is very much elliptical with quite a fat radius to the edges, which probably explains its gentle approach to detail retrieval. My two Ortofons - Kontrapunkt B and 2M Black have little works of art stuck to their cantilevers - they are so neat and precise, and I'm glad to see no obvious wear to the KB's tip. It is already booked in with Expert Stylus Company for a service, though.
I wish that I could have taken pictures, but there's no such facility on the microscope that I have borrowed.
How badly a damaged cart can they save?
My insurance has paid out for my dead AT-OC9 which I assumed was bin-fodder as the cantilever was snapped off, but could it be fixed?
Did you approach your insurance company to replace yours?
Ammonite Audio
16-09-2010, 17:30
How badly a damaged cart can they save?
My insurance has paid out for my dead AT-OC9 which I assumed was bin-fodder as the cantilever was snapped off, but could it be fixed?
Did you approach your insurance company to replace yours?
Since the cartridge is almost new and there is no internal work to be done (subject to their inspection, of course), the cost for a retip is around £200. I get the impression that they can resurrect pretty much anything if the customer is willing to pay. The chap there did talk about having replaced cantilevers, so that must be normal work for them.
As for insurance, I'd rather save it for something important, particularly since it's only 3 months since I changed insurers.
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