View Full Version : New amp and speakers, what to consider.
Mikeandvan
28-03-2022, 23:07
As much as I enjoy my valve amp/Audionote J set up, and I have loved it - with jazz and more 'paced' music, such as acoustic, I do miss what a solid state can do with more complex or congested music, such as rock. With there being an absolute plethora of amps and speakers around I'm not sure where to look, or if it even matters, won't any decent amp do for instance? Speaker wise there is more difference in sound, so just want something not sharp, but at the same time not too fluffy! Looking to spend about £500 on each, give or take a couple of hundred.
I'd go and have a listen to the Wharfedale Evo 4.2 looks like they have them in stock at your local Sevenoaks.
As long as the speaker's not a tough load the amp doesn't matter so much. Get a used Denon PMA350 that will drive them no problem. If you like them. They look good on paper.
hifinutt
29-03-2022, 09:51
i am just taking an amp back to dealers that one or two are finding works well with an -j . however sadly it costs a lot more than your budget !!
however i do get very good results using arcam a75 or a85 with horns . arcam make very good vfm amps within your budget . the new denon amps such as pma800ne are well worth a listen too
hifinutt
29-03-2022, 10:13
this might be good . very well priced
https://hifiwigwam.com/forum/threads/leema-pulse.107930/#post-2220023
Mikeandvan
29-03-2022, 20:15
this might be good . very well priced
https://hifiwigwam.com/forum/threads/leema-pulse.107930/#post-2220023
Thanks but I'm banned from Wigwam for believing in biological fact.
Mikeandvan
29-03-2022, 20:15
I'd go and have a listen to the Wharfedale Evo 4.2 looks like they have them in stock at your local Sevenoaks.
As long as the speaker's not a tough load the amp doesn't matter so much. Get a used Denon PMA350 that will drive them no problem. If you like them. They look good on paper.
Cheers, they sound ok.
Mikeandvan
29-03-2022, 20:15
Think I can spend about £800 on each now.
Pepperamip
29-03-2022, 20:30
See a decent pair of crusaders 2s (what I've got now) on the fleabay. Look to be in nice condition.
A bit overpriced though at £750. I'm sure a reasonable offer wouldnt be dismissed. Superb midrange on them.
Sent from my M2103K19G using Tapatalk
Speakers - stand or floor standing, big or small?
I’ve got Neat Motive sx2 selling on other forums.
Nicely detailed and full bodied sound.
Mods: feel free to delete this post if too much of a shameless plug.
Why not keep what you have for the moment. Buy an old Exposure integrated amp and a pair of Royd Minstrel / Rega Ela type loudspeakers and live with it a while. You won't lose much, if any, money, as this type of equipment is always in demand. Therefore easy to sell. Just a suggestion, as I have ended up in that position.
Mikeandvan
30-03-2022, 12:16
Why not keep what you have for the moment. Buy an old Exposure integrated amp and a pair of Royd Minstrel / Rega Ela type loudspeakers and live with it a while. You won't lose much, if any, money, as this type of equipment is always in demand. Therefore easy to sell. Just a suggestion, as I have ended up in that position.
I tried Minstrels once, for me the sound was underwhelming in the extreme, a bit like Fisher price.
Mikeandvan
30-03-2022, 12:17
Why not keep what you have for the moment. Buy an old Exposure integrated amp and a pair of Royd Minstrel / Rega Ela type loudspeakers and live with it a while. You won't lose much, if any, money, as this type of equipment is always in demand. Therefore easy to sell. Just a suggestion, as I have ended up in that position.
Yeh I was considering those.
Mikeandvan
04-04-2022, 10:55
I bought Manda neat sx2s, just need an integrated solid state amp now. What to go for? Want something decent.
Hard to recommend an amp as there's no measurements available, and as usual subjective opinion is split with some claiming they are hard to drive and other saying they are an easy load.
Mikeandvan
04-04-2022, 14:14
Just looking for ideas at the minute, i mean, could just get a more powerful amp anyway, which could drive a wider range of speakers.
with a difficult load it's power regulation not watts that matters. Plenty of 100 watt amps that couldn't drive the skin off a rice pudding.
I'd see what other owners are using with theirs and get some idea that way. Probably they are not a difficult load but hard to say for certain these days without seeing the impedance trace as all the manufacturers tend to cheat with their nominal impedance figure (and sensitivity too).
Denon are usually a safe bet unless it's a real bitch of a load (which they won't be).
Hi Mike. How about a used Moon integrated? Should work well with the Neats and other speakers after them.
Mikeandvan
04-04-2022, 17:05
Hi Mike. How about a used Moon integrated? Should work well with the Neats and other speakers after them.
Aren't they a bit spendy?
Not necessarily. All things are relative. Built to last, plenty of power and current.
Have browse on the auction site, but I think there might have been one for sale on one of the usual forums.
Most owners keep them for a long time.
Also the Norma Revo integrated would be awesome and a keeper, also on the auction site.
Pigmy Pony
04-04-2022, 18:49
http://https://www.hifishark.com/goto/26_98394/2bb369dc-b447-11ec-9e47-613737316664
Built like a tank and plenty of welly. My brother's had one for years, with no issues.
Sorry, link not working. It's a Musical Fidelity A3.2 integrated dual mono. For sale at Audio Emotion.
Mikeandvan
17-04-2022, 10:27
I got a Sugden A21a with phono stage and recent service for £650, it'll arrive next week, hopefully not bashed about by a courier. I swapped out my ANJs with my valve amp for the Sx2s, and the sound is much smaller, reedy treble, the ANJs are much more expressive, really flesh the sound out. Of course I didn;t buy Sx2s to use valves, but thought I'd give them a try. They seem to accentuate drums, not really a balanced sound, but I'll give them a chance with the Sugden before I write them off. I probably should have went for something bigger in the Neat range, as one thing I am enjoying is their more rhythmic presentation with rock music.
I'm going to suggest you stop buying 'designed by ear' speakers like the Audionotes and Neats.
I know they do it for some people but I don't think you're one of them.
Lawrence001
17-04-2022, 12:52
Could be a good idea. I guess you can look at ASR for a good rec [emoji23]
Could be a good idea. I guess you can look at ASR for a good rec [emoji23]
trouble is they rarely test anything you can get very easily in the UK as they rely on people sending in their own speaker to be tested.
I still think Wharfedales are the answer to all Mike's problems. Old ones or new ones. Not the Delta 30 though.
Lawrence001
17-04-2022, 16:22
What about Q Acoustics, Concept range maybe?
Mikeandvan
17-04-2022, 21:26
I'm going to suggest you stop buying 'designed by ear' speakers like the Audionotes and Neats.
I know they do it for some people but I don't think you're one of them.
I wasn't aware of the Neat sound at all, not that I'm writing them off yet, wait until I get the Sugden, but you could be right, neutrality really does make sense doesn't it?
Lawrence001
18-04-2022, 07:20
Designed by ear are less likely to be neutral since that's what most makers aim for by measurement isn't it?
walpurgis
18-04-2022, 07:34
Speakers are inherently not neutral. The recipe is a balancing act between colourations and response anomalies etc., it's never perfect.
Goodness knows what speakers designed without a human actually having listened to them sound like, it must happen I guess.
The perfect speaker will never exist............well, the perfect anything will never exist!
I got a Sugden A21a with phono stage and recent service for £650, it'll arrive next week, hopefully not bashed about by a courier. I swapped out my ANJs with my valve amp for the Sx2s, and the sound is much smaller, reedy treble, the ANJs are much more expressive, really flesh the sound out. Of course I didn;t buy Sx2s to use valves, but thought I'd give them a try. They seem to accentuate drums, not really a balanced sound, but I'll give them a chance with the Sugden before I write them off. I probably should have went for something bigger in the Neat range, as one thing I am enjoying is their more rhythmic presentation with rock music.
Did you buy the Suggie from Sean in Notts Mike? If so, hes a decent fella who I've met a couple of times. He bought the proac d15s he's selling from me.
Not sure Suggie will give you what you want through the Neats though, its those long throw drivers that have a looseness about them to my ears.. reckon thry need an amp with a lot of grip. Be interested to hear your findings. Those Proac D15s I had would have worked with the Sugden though.
Speakers are inherently not neutral. The recipe is a balancing act between colourations and response anomalies etc., it's never perfect.
Goodness knows what speakers designed without a human actually having listened to them sound like, it must happen I guess.
The perfect speaker will never exist............well, the perfect anything will never exist!
Yes all speakers have compromises and no speaker is perfect.
But... the problem with 'listening' to a speaker to judge its efficacy is what do you use as programme? Just because a speaker sounds good with one recording, or ten recordings, does not mean that its flaws will not show up with a recording you did not listen to. So unless you have the time to check the speaker with every recording ever made you're likely to produce a speaker that enhances some recordings but makes others unlistenable.
If you come across someone who is obsessed with 'recording quality' you can bet a pound to a penny that he is using 'designed by ear' speakers. Or his listening room is a virtually empty highly reflective box.
Designing a speaker based on solid engineering principles means it will give an even handed treatment to every recording you play. Recordings are not mastered on speakers that were designed by ear.
This is something that has been extensively researched and it has been found that 75% of people prefer the sound of a properly engineered speaker. You can design a properly engineered speaker without listening to it as part of the design process. It will sound good because there is absolutely no reason why it wouldn't.
That does leave 25% of people who are looking for something different however. Which is why designed by ear speakers tend to have a cult following. But they will polarise opinion, you will either love them or hate them. If you mainly listen to a particular genre of music and that plays to the strengths of the speaker then it will work for you better than the jack of all trades speaker.
Neat Elite SE great with beat driven stuff. Stick a densen B100 up em and happy days.
Mikeandvan
18-04-2022, 10:53
Did you buy the Suggie from Sean in Notts Mike? If so, hes a decent fella who I've met a couple of times. He bought the proac d15s he's selling from me.
Not sure Suggie will give you what you want through the Neats though, its those long throw drivers that have a looseness about them to my ears.. reckon thry need an amp with a lot of grip. Be interested to hear your findings. Those Proac D15s I had would have worked with the Sugden though.
Got it from Gaius (Tangerine Audio), he got it from someone on PFM, so may be the same one. I thought the SUgden - though low watts on paper - was quite powerful? Where's he selling the d15s?
Ebay Mike
Edit. Seem to have disappeared.
Mikeandvan
18-04-2022, 11:31
Ebay Mike
Edit. Seem to have disappeared.
One to look out for in future may be.
They sold last night apparently.
Mikeandvan
19-04-2022, 23:46
They sold last night apparently.
I guess some of the other Proac speakers will work? Is there a house sound, are they another 'designed by ear' speakers I've been advised to avoid?
walpurgis
20-04-2022, 07:06
I've not heard many Proac speakers, but what I have heard have been very much to my liking. A friend had a pair of floorstanders from the Studio range which struck me as extremely transparent and neutral (they weren't cheap).
If you can drop on the smaller responses, they have a tighter sound than the Studios.the D1.5 and the d15. I've not heard the d18 but imagine they're of a similar ilk.
Mikeandvan
26-04-2022, 09:20
The Neats are on Ebay, clearly not for me, trying to listen to Coltrane now with the Neats and SUgden, it's iterally painful. Gonna look out for some Proacs, if that fails, may'be Tannoy next, or just stick with the ANJs and valve set up, seems to be the only one I can live with, but it dictates listening somewhat.
AJSki2fly
26-04-2022, 10:08
The Neats are on Ebay, clearly not for me, trying to listen to Coltrane now with the Neats and SUgden, it's iterally painful. Gonna look out for some Proacs, if that fails, may'be Tannoy next, or just stick with the ANJs and valve set up, seems to be the only one I can live with, but it dictates listening somewhat.
Mike, not sure of your budget but you might want to consider these, very good reports on them https://www.brianandtrevors.com/ex-demonstration-and-approved-used/, Brigadier Mu.2 Loudspeakers by Serhan & Swift, not that well known here as from Aus.
Mike, not sure of your budget but you might want to consider these, very good reports on them https://www.brianandtrevors.com/ex-demonstration-and-approved-used/, Brigadier Mu.2 Loudspeakers by Serhan & Swift, not that well known here as from Aus.
Almost three grand for a used pair of dinky little two ways?
Mikeandvan
26-04-2022, 10:31
Mike, not sure of your budget but you might want to consider these, very good reports on them https://www.brianandtrevors.com/ex-demonstration-and-approved-used/, Brigadier Mu.2 Loudspeakers by Serhan & Swift, not that well known here as from Aus.
Thanks Adrian, but about £2000 out of my budget at the moment!
Go down to Sevenoaks and get a listen to those Wharfedale Evo 4.2
Can't promise they will be what you are after but costs nothing to try them and even brand new they are inside your budget.
Pepperamip
26-04-2022, 11:52
Nice looking pair of frugalhorns on here for a very reasonable price.
In bristol though so not sure how that works for you. If near enough lug your current amp and hear them with the sellers amp too.
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There is a pair of Opera Seconda floor standers on Facebook at £699 (Milton Keynes). I have a pair of Prima standmounts and they are very good assuming the amp is happy with 4 ohms.
Pigmy Pony
26-04-2022, 19:02
There is a pair of Opera Seconda floor standers on Facebook at £699 (Milton Keynes). I have a pair of Prima standmounts and they are very good assuming the amp is happy with 4 ohms.
That looks to be a lot of speaker for the outlay. The same pair is also on Ebay (unless there are two pairs in Milton Keynes).
Pigmy Pony
26-04-2022, 19:26
And the Q Acoustics Concept 40s being sold by Steve-z in Private Exhibitions look like a good buy. Q Acoustics have quite a following and can do no wrong it seems :)
nonuffin
27-04-2022, 13:40
Here is a recommendation that is a bit off the beaten track but be prepared to be surprised!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234524205598?hash=item369abb621e:g:QC4AAOSw4KNiZAi x
Mikeandvan
09-05-2022, 09:48
Now got the ANJs plugged into the Sugden, not bad at all.
walpurgis
09-05-2022, 09:52
Now got the ANJs plugged into the Sugden, not bad at all.
Should be a good match.
Lawrence001
09-05-2022, 11:42
These are quite good [emoji6]
Thread 'Amphion Xenon'
https://www.hifiwigwam.com/forum/threads/amphion-xenon.108752/
Mikeandvan
24-07-2022, 10:20
Managed to score some Proac studio 140s off Ebay for £200, nice and cheap, as the seller didn't do a good job of advertising them, they are a little bit tatty, but drivers are all good. Local to me too, been running them for a week, not very impressed, then realised the jumper cables were missing, it's been a busy summer! Now sounding a fair bit more satisfying, still need to run these for a few weeks to see whether they'll replace my ANJs, the only speakers I've thus far owned which make the mid/high frequencies on Jazz records listenable
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52236463532_cefd589ce8_z.jpg[/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/2nzXwHA]20220724_111745
hifinutt
24-07-2022, 13:51
what a bargain !!
It is, IIRC they were about two grand fifteen years ago.
Mikeandvan
24-07-2022, 21:06
Yeh, nice to score a bargain for a change, the first time he auctioned them I missed the end, and they went for £120! He relisted them, I was even nervous about picking them up as the ad was so shite! But they are fine, he had these weird plastic grilles on them, which kept the drivers mint. Listening now, pretty decent so far, they better the ANJS in scale and precision, not played any raw jazz yet, but they're knocking out Diana Ross very nicely.
Mikeandvan
29-07-2022, 22:20
Played a few jazz classics tonight, and the suggie/140s is a remarkable system, for me anyway, in my rather limited experience. They seem to better the ANJ's, very happy so far. Looks like my old S500/ANJs will be up for sale soon.
Mikeandvan
06-09-2022, 21:11
About a month ago I swapped the Suggie out for my S500, and this with the Proacs is a better combo, by quite a significant margain. I guess the S500 with all its mods is gonna beat a standard integrated. I liked the a21a, but was finding it a bit on the warm side. The S500 sparkles by comparison, a little hard at times with high notes, but been really impressed this past month. Interesting to prove to myself that the old axiom about valve amps being warmer than SS ain't necessarily so, of course the SUggie is 'valve like'......
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