Harbeth Super HL5 Plus speakers

[F575M]

Hello,

I have a pair of Tannoy Devons, I am now considering a pair of used Harbeth Super HL5 Plus speakers. Unfortunately, I cannot compare them via-a-vis.

I would like to hear an unbiased opinion from forum members who have listened to them extensively.

Cheers,

[hifinutt]

mmm well dont buy them without hearing . they are VERY different !!! had my shl5plus for a short while before trading in for tannoy eaton legacy which have been in situ for 4 years and far outdo the harbs in the bass . the midrange the harbs may be better but they need great positioning . there is of course MASSIVE love for harbeth on many many sites . they can sound fab . i would have another pair but only with a very good amp like the norma 70b which is valve like and would suit them

join the FB group but dont buy without trying first unless you can sell on easily

https://www.facebook.com/groups/176400719064958

https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/harbeth-shl5-vs-shl5-40th-anniversary.218436/page-15#post-4611236

https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/to-tannoy-or-not-to-tannoy.257690/page-3#post-4426149

[Pharos]

With my Hi-Fi friend we have been through numerous speakers, many BBC heritage, one pair of which resides with me now.
He had these and they were good, but limited, as are all speakers, and as mentioned not a lot of low end, depending on the room size. A very different sound from Tannoys; I used to have Lancaster Golds and also borrowed IIILZs fo a while.

Tannoys are more colored, especially in the mid, and a very different 'animal'.

We both got sick of all this buying and selling, his last were very expensive JBLs, and mine are now ADAM Tensor Betas, my having just tried Revel Salon 2s for a month.

We adapt to the coloration and nature of speakers and room to a large extent, and see through, to get the art.

[F575M]

That's exactly what I wanted to hear. I had my fair share of lovely speakers - Chartwell, Armstrong, Mission, IMF, ProAc, Spendor, 4 pairs of Quad 63s, no, not at the same time and built many kits using Kef drivers using Falcon Acoustics plans. I grew up with my father's GRF corner cabinets with 15" reds - I do not understand my anxiety to start all over again.

My Tannoys, I assume they are Devons, were Martin Hannett Tannoy special build HPD studio monitors, bought them from his estate in mint condition. I wanted to replace the binding posts but I do not want to remove the drivers to do so, they are unmolested.

Cheers,

[DSJR]

Revel Salon 2's? FFS Pharos :D



I have SHL5's which offer almost exactly the opposite tone to the Tannoys as I remember selling them three quarters of a lifetime ago nearly - YIKES!!!... The 5+ version was something of a revelation which I didn't initially like until I found it was the high output impedance Croft Series 7 adding its own little graphic equaliser to the tonal balance, making them 'squeak' too much in that room as all amps like this do sadly to a roller-coaster impedance curve. The previous 5 actually benefits from such amps subtle equalisation I remember.

The 5+ is far more honest and neutral in tone, the bass appears tauter and the upper mids and highs around 3dB 'brighter' I think over mine (and response plots I've accumulated) and almost 'flat' in balance compared to Harbeths of twenty years ago. The 5+XD series claims to refine this further, but they're far more alike than different, at least to me. I can listen to the 5+ for hours at lowish volumes and with a quite humble amp too (I'd never ever recommend it, but a cheapo Rega Io does just fine at low volumes and the Elex R does very well indeed at medium volume) and I can dip into and out of a recording very freely and easily if I want to, the soundstage 'growing' with the power of the amp feeding them. The current Harbeth crop are NOT *full phat over-ripe lush* 'pipe and slippers' squidge boxes as many mid period so-called BeeBeeCee derivatives and one or two Harbeth predecessors were, at least to me. Bass is clean and quite extended with none of the bloat or overhang I feel the previous ones could have and the hf is clear but never ever edgy or harsh unless the recording tells it to be.

The Devon is a collectors item now and even back in the mid 70's, a rather coloured/cuppy and sometimes spiteful thing as all the HPD Tannoys were to me. Audio peeps being who they are, don't seem to notice or care about such things, but back then we had the big old IMF's and still 'nice' Spendor BC1 and KEF 104ab, all of which properly driven sounded very 'real' and 'tactile' up to their limits. Best I say no more, but just to finish that ideally, the Harbeths should be out from the wall behind them a bit, although the livelier balance and tauter bass makes them less fussy than mine which need/demand free space siting.

If you do take the plunge, it may take some time to adapt to the presentation. Then again, you may find the rather superior Harbeth vocal reproduction quality something you may grow to love

Any help?

[hifinutt]

When I got the tannoy Eaton we had a few from aos and others to listen and compare with the shl5. Using with a high end thrax valve amp it went down a storm. The harbs struggled and didn't like being near a wall . The tannoys just sounded like bigger and better speakers. My son hated the harbs as they did not do that drop you get with dub step . The tannoys had incredible imaging, just stunning sometimes. These replaced a series of floorstanders such as Martin Logan summit x and they are very very good indeed . I might swap them for 20k verity audio speakers but that's about all

[Pigmy Pony]

That's exactly what I wanted to hear. I had my fair share of lovely speakers - Chartwell, Armstrong, Mission, IMF, ProAc, Spendor, 4 pairs of Quad 63s, no, not at the same time and built many kits using Kef drivers using Falcon Acoustics plans. I grew up with my father's GRF corner cabinets with 15" reds - I do not understand my anxiety to start all over again.

My Tannoys, I assume they are Devons, were Martin Hannett Tannoy special build HPD studio monitors, bought them from his estate in mint condition. I wanted to replace the binding posts but I do not want to remove the drivers to do so, they are unmolested.

Cheers,

Martin Hannett? Bit of history there, it would be a shame to tinker with the speakers. Do you ever play any Joy Division through them?

[DSJR]

When I got the tannoy Eaton we had a few from aos and others to listen and compare with the shl5. Using with a high end thrax valve amp it went down a storm. The harbs struggled and didn't like being near a wall . The tannoys just sounded like bigger and better speakers. My son hated the harbs as they did not do that drop you get with dub step . The tannoys had incredible imaging, just stunning sometimes. These replaced a series of floorstanders such as Martin Logan summit x and they are very very good indeed . I might swap them for 20k verity audio speakers but that's about all

The differences here would be VERY easily measurable, both in response and dispersion. Valves are a no-no for any speaker with crossovers really (they make wonderful hidden graphic equalisers you know ;) ) and Tannoys used to be 10 to 15 ohm loads in an attempt to minimise the damage. if you like the hidden graphic equaliser and added low bass distortion, then please just be aware what they're doing to your music and speakers. Almost all transformer coupled valve amps have low bass distortion added of up to several percent, this added to the distortion many smaller speakers have below 80Hz or so can smear and/or soften synth or percussive bass - our ears don't hear bass as well as we do the 'glare' frequencies. SHL5's need a Quad style 'tone tilt' to take bass down and hf up (I do have a surviving response plot of the older model) where the Eaton would need the opposite I reckon (very old memories though).

In a lively room with speakers in free space as designed, the SHL5 can sound lovely in an olde-worlde warm sweet-toned kind of way. The PLUS version isn't like this at all and the XD even more so, the sound more immediate, tactile and 'real' sounding and those who've heard the later versions tend to agree with that vibe I feel. Smaller UK rooms are an effin' disaster for bass in general (just doing an omni and spraying the mids and highs everywhere doesn't always work either I discovered but some don't share this view).

Any direct comparison for lay people to do will take maybe twenty minutes to half an hour on each speaker and a wide range of music to be played. The Tannoys usually needed the tweeter level backed off a notch and also the 'roll-off' setting too I recall (maybe not the latter now I'm nearly half a century older with degraded hearing).

I do apologise, as I have difficulty now with the kind of 'audio gear enthusiasm' as I once had and just stumbled on this thread looking for something else. A sound system to me now is a tool to do the job and the gear itself doesn't set the pulses racing as it did when I worked and was immersed in it. Harbeths now look to be very expensive even if they're audibly and measurably better than their 'BBC Derived' competition and priced to compete with them, so much more expensive now than they were fifteen years ago and taking inflation into account. I suppose my interest is more towards Neumann and Genelec actives with DSP and other sound/room enhancement goodies (active ATC's are expensive now more than before), which increasingly seems to be a world and universe apart from the old fashioned passive boxes driven by tone control-less amps bought by audiophiles... I don't expect many of you to understand this, but years of trying stuff which ultimately disappoints has turned my mind I'm afraid - Macca here might understand ;)

[Macca]

- Macca here might understand ;)

I do Dave, I do. If I was starting from scratch today I'd do it all differently.

Not commented here as although I've had a listen to the SHL5 it was a very brief one. They're a lot of money and there's a thousand other options at that price level. Not a decision I'd make in haste.

[F575M]

In my case I am using a 30W/Ch OTL amplifier so it is not transformer coupled. There are several used 5HLs for sale for less than fifty percent of the retail price and still do not move, some have over six months on the market.

[Macca]

In my case I am using a 30W/Ch OTL amplifier so it is not transformer coupled. There are several used 5HLs for sale for less than fifty percent of the retail price and still do not move, some have over six months on the market.

Buyers of used equipment tend to be cost-conscious, otherwise they wouldn't be buying second-hand to begin with. For a fairly small, conventional two-way speaker with acceptable but not stellar performance they are just not a good value proposition even at 50 percent new price. Especially when you look at the vast number of offerings on the used market and see what you could have won.

[F575M]

Well said mate.

[mikeyb]

From what I've read of them over the last few years as long as you have the right stands, right room, right amp, right cabling, right source, right music then they're ok [emoji23]

[Macca]

I suppose there is nothing else that really has their balance of various things - easy to listen to, easy to drive, does the 'hi-fi' thing, quality finish, reassuringly expensive.

They sell a lot of speakers so it's a formula that works.

[Pigmy Pony]

Buyers of used equipment tend to be cost-conscious, otherwise they wouldn't be buying second-hand to begin with. For a fairly small, conventional two-way speaker with acceptable but not stellar performance they are just not a good value proposition even at 50 percent new price. Especially when you look at the vast number of offerings on the used market and see what you could have won.

50% off new price doesn't seem that much of a bargain anyway, most used stuff these days sells closer to 30%. Unless it's really old, then all bets are off.

[Macca]

50% off new price doesn't seem that much of a bargain anyway, most used stuff these days sells closer to 30%. Unless it's really old, then all bets are off.

What if it's discontinued but still in demand? Check out the prices that Oppo 205 players have sold for recently https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=oppo+205&_sacat=293&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc

Also Technics SL1200 Mk2, LS3/5a, Tannoy dual concentric drivers... they all sell for way more than they cost originally even taking inflation into account.

The question is, if Harbeth shut up shop tomorrow would used ones start selling for more than their original price? I think they have enough of a following that it's possible.

[Pigmy Pony]

Also Technics SL1200 Mk2, LS3/5a, Tannoy dual concentric drivers... they all sell for way more than they cost originally even taking inflation into account.

The question is, if Harbeth shut up shop tomorrow would used ones start selling for more than their original price? I think they have enough of a following that it's possible.

I think that is likely if a product starts out great then doesn't 'improve' over the years.

As for the Harbeth question: yes that would also be likely - remember the outcry when they threatened to stop making Heinz salad cream? Sometimes people only realise they want something when it's taken away.

Yamaha NS1000M - now that's something old I would pay good money for and cherish forever :)

[Macca]

.

Yamaha NS1000M - now that's something old I would pay good money for and cherish forever :)

I've been thwarted numerous times attempting to buy some. They are still a second hand bargain IMO.

[F575M]

The NS-1000 are great speakers, read this review,

"Strength:

Dynamic musical and fast ! Easy placement as just against the wall with little toe in (love that about these speakers �� as got a beautiful pair of Harbeths from a good friend and these were his replacement speakers and WOW! Can not believe how good these sound at any age and price ! No wonder Magico and Rockport use this materiel in their tweeters 40 years later! Best with good tubes to warm up the midrange some (but happy with good SS) and also they are very efficient to drive ��Great Job YAMAHA!
Weakness:

None ��I’m blown away by these speakers However placement makes a huge difference! the few negative reviews I read on here I’m convinced that they didn’t place correctly or they would drink the kool aid and be tapping their toes and enjoying these epic speakers...”nuff said”

Lovely pair in good condition.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154596200698?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338381866&toolid=10001&customid=fa010b02-b102-11ec-8744-646237373034

[Barry]

I've been thwarted numerous times attempting to buy some. They are still a second hand bargain IMO.

How about these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/403000456877?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110 006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D23792 0%26meid%3Dcdf93c1a73b7492581a89da820cb8e23%26pid% 3D101195%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D174995093208%2 6itm%3D403000456877%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D204 7675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseWebMskuAspectsV202 110NoVariantSeedWithRevOpt80NoRelevance%26brand%3D Yamaha&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A403000456877cdf93c1a73b7492581a89da 820cb8e23%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAACMEbg53h53ZXie3937A25J8q9 Iy4oAUIUwZRf%252Bf3sBeMIZATkrwnjsIFgzoLs5V9QkvTJ7S okJD4Nq2mG%252Fl9uf8dApG7H2ukkYtkGDzBrf0m2KnXaCcKZ MnZn4DVmltwBPpipO41xt72R6nP1MlALJbBE0YUqnT9GPoXRoS SiSEgChbHCIdVEFVNBqndZeYefmFzgWqHxtwNEfFX2d8Yjs28K hq2%252BSRQRMeRm4KuCwk3uo1skh3vJD8avZ3mWAJ2Wcd4ZCy IzpFqE%252Bnt8eEH9RaFCm0mOjGHbnzr2cUyY7s7oSFxjHFzr vWYasf7gwGDGXpa2MjI0XcRLwh8B6aemtaE02BowqjWs9%252F tFauV0MY%252BrlRrHc%252FyfBxDv3viaEUgqmw%252BldjFo D%252FxNtq3NnH8%252BgRLf1eDnCpsQXBa6lt0pUpPZf%252F C%252FYOk4QA%252BMmH2UMdRMR7OVb%252FUguOXbzLjmVTii T6Q4z%252Ffs9ooRC7TYCzORLy9XspGo8k7DEaQcHCo8AA7y0A S4IYF2AJ1uhIG%252BTP07cyKsbxEbBQEHlQxBCRsJ%252Bw7P nT3nL%252BpTdv8wk3Sc%252FkKZgXwwnBSeh%252FRsmz1np0 dgKMUglcvTP%252BSzhrF7ER2lkumShfn0vZxMmXNZzPBJ3LKJ Xt2FWvAhSidtnLIyliHDVfBYi0dHNT8j2z99mS2BmHrBAMTz0w jRM4%252Fv9C4rsJFAx2y%252FhpkRcd%252B0r3wy7r1BkC3D lFJFUeiVETxDx69PAu77%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047 675&epid=2255529469 ?

(I'm not sure of the significance of the extra "M" in the designation.)

[F575M]

Barry, you get free shipping and still can make an offer!!! There are more than hundred pairs for sale in Japan.

https://www.hifizero.com/index.php?q=Yamaha+NS1000

[Pigmy Pony]

How about these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/403000456877?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110 006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D23792 0%26meid%3Dcdf93c1a73b7492581a89da820cb8e23%26pid% 3D101195%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D174995093208%2 6itm%3D403000456877%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D204 7675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseWebMskuAspectsV202 110NoVariantSeedWithRevOpt80NoRelevance%26brand%3D Yamaha&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A403000456877cdf93c1a73b7492581a89da 820cb8e23%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAACMEbg53h53ZXie3937A25J8q9 Iy4oAUIUwZRf%252Bf3sBeMIZATkrwnjsIFgzoLs5V9QkvTJ7S okJD4Nq2mG%252Fl9uf8dApG7H2ukkYtkGDzBrf0m2KnXaCcKZ MnZn4DVmltwBPpipO41xt72R6nP1MlALJbBE0YUqnT9GPoXRoS SiSEgChbHCIdVEFVNBqndZeYefmFzgWqHxtwNEfFX2d8Yjs28K hq2%252BSRQRMeRm4KuCwk3uo1skh3vJD8avZ3mWAJ2Wcd4ZCy IzpFqE%252Bnt8eEH9RaFCm0mOjGHbnzr2cUyY7s7oSFxjHFzr vWYasf7gwGDGXpa2MjI0XcRLwh8B6aemtaE02BowqjWs9%252F tFauV0MY%252BrlRrHc%252FyfBxDv3viaEUgqmw%252BldjFo D%252FxNtq3NnH8%252BgRLf1eDnCpsQXBa6lt0pUpPZf%252F C%252FYOk4QA%252BMmH2UMdRMR7OVb%252FUguOXbzLjmVTii T6Q4z%252Ffs9ooRC7TYCzORLy9XspGo8k7DEaQcHCo8AA7y0A S4IYF2AJ1uhIG%252BTP07cyKsbxEbBQEHlQxBCRsJ%252Bw7P nT3nL%252BpTdv8wk3Sc%252FkKZgXwwnBSeh%252FRsmz1np0 dgKMUglcvTP%252BSzhrF7ER2lkumShfn0vZxMmXNZzPBJ3LKJ Xt2FWvAhSidtnLIyliHDVfBYi0dHNT8j2z99mS2BmHrBAMTz0w jRM4%252Fv9C4rsJFAx2y%252FhpkRcd%252B0r3wy7r1BkC3D lFJFUeiVETxDx69PAu77%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047 675&epid=2255529469 ?

(I'm not sure of the significance of the extra "M" in the designation.)

They are 'mini monitors' Barry, not the full-size original jobbies.

[F575M]

I also have a pair of Vienna Acoustics Haydn rosewood finish in my library, bought them new as a close out sale for £190. I was planning to buy a PS Audio Sprout 100, a tiny integrated to use with them, but it never happened.

They are extremely well made and for the money something to listen to. I made my own stands with solid cocobolo rosewood I purchased on ebay.