Valve amps - recommendations?

[Phil Lawton]

Not sure which part of the forum to post this in, but this looks as good a spot as any.

I keep seeing various members here and on various Facebook pages using valve amps and lavishing all kinds of praise upon the same.

Using a Marantz 6000 amp at the moment (can't remember which exact iteration it is, but you know the series), but am having my head turned by all the talk about valve amps and I think it might be my next step forward.

Any recommendations and/or pitfalls from owners here? I should add that I'd need an optical input or two and I don't think I've ever seen a screenshot of the back of a valve amp that shows such a thing...does it exist? What about co-axial connectors?

Is the service life of valves an (expensive/arse-ache) issue? Can replacements be procured in the UK?

Any and all thoughts/examples of personal experience (of valve amps...not that experience you had in KFC with the woman from the perfume counter in House Of Fraser...focus....) gladly received.

[struth]

probably should be in black canvas, where more will see it(as its an amplifier and not ancilliary) but will leave it for now. Might move it later.

As for your query, many full valve amps are indeed just amps(often seperate power amp or pre amp), thus dont have dacs and thus dont have opticals etc. Output valves tend to wear out much quicker than signal ones, and some are expensive. Integrated valve amps can have dacs onboard. There are also hybrids that usually have valve signal stage and transisterised outputs. IMO these are the best of both worlds, but many wont agree.

[Lawrence001]

I was going to say that decent power valves can be bought relatively cheaply say £100 for a quad, but the Russia situation will probably be having an effect on them, are JJ now made there or in former Yugoslavia? I'm not a fan of Chinese signal valves but the power ones are ok (eg. Shuguang).

There are some decent Chinese valve amps too, I've been very happy with Opera and Yarland/Ariand are nearly as good for less money if you can find one s/h. Don is selling a TOTL one on here.

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[RockAddict]

Until recently, I'd have responded with something along the lines of "why not try a valve amp to see/hear if it's your thing?"

However, the Ukraine conflict has already had an impact on valve availability because of sanctions relating to Russia where a fair chunk of modern production valves are/were made. Some UK stockists are already running low on valves originating from Russia and when they're gone, they're gone leaving valves made in other countries. There are factories in Slovakia and China but, according to info in a thread on another forum, JJ in Slovakia are already back-ordered into 2023.

So, what to do? If the appeal of a valve amp is an itch you're really struggling to resist, my advice would be to go for one AND make sure you order spare valves at the time (doesn't have to be from the amp seller) - especially the power/output valves (2-3 sets?) which have a shorter lifespan than "pre" valves (1-2 sets?).

Sticking purely to the subject of valve amps, the following thread may or may not be of interest:
https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?74536-Tube-Valve-amp

My own journey with valves started a year ago this month (Mar 2021) when I got a Willsenton R8 (shipped from China HiFi Audio) for an experiment with the intention of using it in a second system. The R8 never made it into the second system and is now very much at home in the main system, having displaced a NAD C 658 (pre / streamer / DAC) / PS Audio Stellar S300 (power amp) combo. As I have said elsewhere in varying contexts, listening to music is now the most enjoyable it has ever been (for me) despite some external influences that can affect that enjoyment.

For some, the country of origin might be a factor when making any purchase decision but, obviously, that's a matter for you.

Be aware 1: some speakers don't pair well with some valve amps but it's not always as simple as thinking in terms of sensitivity and power (watts). In theory, my 86dB speakers should be a bit of a struggle for the R8 to drive but, certainly at low to moderate volumes, there is no problem at all.

Be aware 2: putting aside potential issues with availability, "tube rolling" (i.e. trying different valves / tubes) can take you into a world of financial pain. Modern production valves are usually cheaper and, although build quality varies, there are some decent ones. "New Old Stock" (NOS) valves are valves that are no longer made and are therefore becoming increasingly scarce and, of course, more expensive. Trying to source genuine NOS valves from reliable sellers can be a bit of a minefield so be wary of rip-off merchants. Budget considerations mean it's modern production valves for me and I've been fortunate to hit on some that work well in my setup.

Whatever you decide, best of luck and, above all, happy listening! :)

[walpurgis]

Grant was right, so I've moved this from Analogue Art to here.

As to valves or transistors. I have no specific preference, both can be good.

[struth]

Grant was right, so I've moved this from Analogue Art to here.

As to valves or transistors. I have no specific preference, both can be good.

cheers geoff, i was going to get round to that:)

[Barry]

My only experience of valve amps have been with either the Audio Innovations 500 and the Radford STA15 Mk. III. Both use EL34 output valves. I once used a Quad 22/Quad II pair. This used KT66 output valves.

Valves are readily obtainable from the likes of Chelmer Valve Company, who can source just about any valve obtainable (though it might take some time, depending on the current supply situation). They sourced a complete replacement set for both the Quad amp and for the Audio Innovations amp.

I was able to source a quadruplet of Mullard (Blackburn Road) EL34s for the Radford, plus the small signal valves from Mullard, Telefunken and Siemens & Halske; but to do that I had to find them and bid for them on eBay.

I would avoid Chinese valves like the plague: IME they are unreliable.

The following might be of help:

https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?70610-Audio-valve-substitutes

https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?32415-A-survey-of-valve-manufacturers-in-Asia-and-Eastern-Europe

https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?3285-On-The-Net-Valve-Databases

[Sherwood]

Budget? Power requirements?

[Lawrence001]

Which speakers?

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[swampy]

I have had many valve amps over the years from 300B SE, 2A3, KT 88 Push-Pull, countless tube pre-amps and an 845 power amp. The 845 was by far the best valve amp I ever had. The 300B with all the mods like grid chokes and ultrapath cap was one of the best on intimate vocals. However after many years of using them I came to the conclusion there are a few negatives :-

1. To get the best out of them, some of the best tubes turned out to be the NOS ones and the best larger power tubes were things like the mesh plate types. However these proved to be very costly and once you start looking at coupling caps to upgrade them, things just get worse.

2. They are not much fun to use in Summer esp amps like the 845 that pump out heat. Nice and cosy in winter.

3. Sometimes if one type of tube / amp suits jazz or vocals I found it unsuited to say faster transients in say electronica. I never quite found a valve amp that was amazing at every style of music.

4. When they break they can go in 'Style'.

In the end I sold every tube amp and went down the class A solid state route. Kind of a compromise really as these seem more suited to whatever music you throw at them and are less fussy.

You need to listen to with all your styles on music you like to find one that suits. Also it is good to mix solid state with tubes. i.e, good solid state pre with a tube power-amp can be close to perfect if you get the right combo or the other way round.

Good luck but be aware it is a deep rabbit hole you can get lost in finding your perfect solution.

[Macca]

Which speakers?

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This is the most important question.

[Enossification]

Oh dear, you're in for a very deep, dark journey full of mysticism and financial loss.

You seriously have got the itch just by asking the question but beware, all is not quite what it seems.

;)

[sjs]

An integrated valve amp, with built in dac, fully supported in the UK?

The Audio Note Cobra comes to mind:
https://www.audionote.co.uk/cobra

As other replies have suggested, pairing of amplifier to speakers tends to be more important for many valve amplifiers, particularly those with low or zero levels of negative feedback, than with solid state amps.



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[Phil Lawton]

Thanks, everyone.

I think the cost of the initial lump of hardware and then the ongoing outlay for replacement/upgrade valves would be prohibitive.

I’ll stick with what I know.

[guy]

Hi, bit of a ramble here but may be of interest.
Back in the seventies, I had a Quad 22/II set up and loved it. When it stopped working (and being a bit of a dick:() I took it apart and never put it back together again - the bits are still in a cupboard as I keep on fantasising about rebuilding it one day.

for the next forty years I have used various transistor amps, but have always thought that one day I would get valves again - I missed the beautiful way that I remembered the Quads handling vocals, female in particular.

So, last year I sold off some bits and pieces on eBay and put together about £800, my wife said that as I had been a good boy and sold some junk, I could buy a valve amp.
I ended up buying an Art Audio Quintet power amp second hand.
EL34 output, weighs a tonne and "only' 15wpc.

I use it with a passive pre (NVA) and my much loved Rega Ela (mk1) - I was worried about them not being sensitive enough for the output, particularly as my living room is fairly large. BUT, I LOVE IT :D
Tone, sense of space, immersion in the music all wonderful in my opinion.
Buggered if I know why, but the change to this particular power amp has bought the system together. I am listening to far more LP's and just want to put on the next one (some which I haven't bothered with in years). My wife, Fliss, has said that she thinks the system has never sounded as good and she is pleased that I am listening to my music more often.

I have been worried about potential price rises and shortages in valves, so have just ordered complete "matched sets" of all the valves from Watford Valves - £260, if prices do continue to rise I will sell off some more of my cherished junk to keep this amp going.

if you have the urge to try/go back to valves, do it - I am sure you won't be disappointed and there is nothing quite so irritating as that "what if" feeling
Have a look for second hand Art Audio

[Enossification]

I’ll stick with what I know.

Sometimes the best decision. If it ain't broke, don't fix it kind of thing.

I enjoyed my time with valve amps but always ended up back with silicon.

[Tony Moore]

I had a similar curiosity about valve amps back in the early 2000's. Up until then I'd been SS and CD/PC front end.

Being an engineer and general electronics tinkerer, the idea of DIY builds to put a toe in the water was appealing. I found the World Audio Designs website and their associated forum and that's when I went down the "rabbit hole".:eyebrows:

In the following several years I DIY'ed myself through Kel84, Kit6550, 2A3 PSE, HD83 (headphone amp), The phono amp, and finally the 300B PP. It was a very enjoyable few years and I met up with fellow enthusiasts and are friends with many, to this day.

I think what I'm trying to say is beware that original curiosity about "trying" valve amps. :) I'd still do the same again but it turned into more of a life event than I'd ever imagined. I guess that's true of anything new that just comes along at the right moment?

I am back on SS again now however recently having built the Douglas Self "Trimodal" class A/AB switchable amp from parts/pcbs. Does it match the valve amps? In many ways it exceeds, in others, perhaps not. However, my listening needs have changed and now it is about having something more reliable, less energy hungry that will play all the sorts of music I throw at it 10 hours a day 365. In class AB mode at normal listening all day I can't tell enough difference from the class AB mode to class A to justify the extra energy usage and heat output so I just leave it in AB mode.

[Barry]

Good to see you posting again Tony - where have you been?


Like you I built as much as I could in the early days, as that was the only way I could afford to build a Hi-Fi system. Things like turntables, tonearms and cartridge had to be bought in, but the electronics and speakers could be built by me.

At first the electronics were valved (all Mullard designs: the 5-10 power amplifier; a pre amp and the electronics for tape record and replay (using a Brenell transport). However for stereo it all got a bit unwieldly, what with two power amp chassis, so I started to explore solid state amps.

There are some very good DIY valve designs out there: but IMO the secret of a good power amplifier, regardless of output valve used, or of amplifier class, lays in the audio output transformer. I used transformers by either Partridge, Parmeko or Gardeners.

Likewise there are some very good DIY solid-state designs: the 5W Nelson-Jones class A; the John Linsey-Hood (also class A); the Blomley (30W class B), and my absolute favourite: the Lohstroh-Otala amplifier (on which the Electrocompaniet "The Two Channel Audio Amplifier" is based).

In the end I settled on a pair of home built power amp designs as used in the Sugden A21 (12.5W class A), later upgraded to those used in the A51 (25W class A).

Until recently I used a pair of 25W class A Levinson ML-2 amplifiers, but they ran very hot, so have now been retired and replaced by a pair of Quad 510 monoblock amplifiers.

[swampy]

I found the World Audio Designs website and their associated forum and that's when I went down the "rabbit hole".:eyebrows:.

That's exactly were I started. WAD KT88. I think we met a few times many years ago at some of the meets.

[bumpy]

I have been worried about potential price rises and shortages in valves, so have just ordered complete "matched sets" of all the valves from Watford Valves - £260, if prices do continue to rise I will sell off some more of my cherished junk to keep this amp going.


Toilet rolls anyone?

[Mikeandvan]

Do you like Jazz, and nothing but jazz? See my thread 'Valve amps, great with jazz, shit with everything else'.lol.