View Full Version : Looking for another cd player
Mikeandvan
08-03-2022, 22:07
I've currently got a few average cd players and I'm looking to get something better. I have a pioneer cd 8700, an olde worlde Mission pcm 7000, and a Marantz cd63 se which skips!
Happy to pay around £500, what's a good choice, old Meridian, Sony, or Cyrus? I've seen a Meridian G06, and a Sony 555es.
Mikeandvan
08-03-2022, 23:19
Do you have a DAC?
Yeh, I've got one of those rather neat looking Topping Dac D30s, never used it!
walpurgis
09-03-2022, 08:17
You'd probably pick up a Meridian 507 for around £500. I've been using one since around 2003 without any bother, I bought it new. The sound quality through its own DAC is excellent, but I often play it through a Monarchy Audio M22B DAC.
Additionally, I have a couple of Pioneer PD-S505 Precision CD players which also sound very nice indeed and make great transports.
Mikeandvan
09-03-2022, 10:12
You'd probably pick up a Meridian 507 for around £500. I've been using one since around 2003 without any bother, I bought it new. The sound quality through its own DAC is excellent, but I often play it through a Monarchy Audio M22B DAC.
Additionally, I have a couple of Pioneer PD-S505 Precision CD players which also sound very nice indeed and make great transports.
I've got a Pioneer pd 8700, plays the discs upside down!
Yeh, I've got one of those rather neat looking Topping Dac D30s, never used it!
Then I'd suggest an AudioLab 6000CDT CD transport: https://www.audiolab.co.uk/6000cdt/
Mikeandvan
09-03-2022, 11:17
Then I'd suggest an AudioLab 6000CDT CD transport: https://www.audiolab.co.uk/6000cdt/
And brand new! Thanks for that link.
Mikeandvan
09-03-2022, 20:00
Silly me, I've had this Topping D30 DAC for around 3 years and have only just plugged it in, I had an optical cable as well in my 'cable bag', that's a decent quality one by the looks of it. Just played one CD - DOnald Byrd - Street lady, and everything is sounding considerably sweeter, more fully formed and easier on the ear, bravo! Using it through my Pioneer PD- 8700. This will certainly do for now! Is there anyway I can give this cdp a bit of tlc, that is maintenance? (for dummies).
'Street Lady' - you got me into that record.
If that's sounding good you've probably cracked it, that's the sort of recording and music that can easily sound bad if the system's duff.
Silly me, I've had this Topping D30 DAC for around 3 years and have only just plugged it in, I had an optical cable as well in my 'cable bag', that's a decent quality one by the looks of it. Just played one CD - DOnald Byrd - Street lady, and everything is sounding considerably sweeter, more fully formed and easier on the ear, bravo! Using it through my Pioneer PD- 8700. This will certainly do for now! Is there anyway I can give this cdp a bit of tlc, that is maintenance? (for dummies).
Good result. My experience is that a decent DAC does wonders for a CD player. I'd suggest getting a decent digital RCA cable rather than optical if your player has an RCA digital output. Oh! and the AudioLab is still a good way to go in the future. I was very surprised how much better mine was. Easily as good as any CD player I've had.
Audiolab CDT is superb for the £. I also got an old Meridian transport for silly £ and it sounds sweet. Only issue is digital display….
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Lawrence001
10-03-2022, 07:06
Pioneer stable platters make great transports, I used one for years. You don't need to upgrade with a dac at the Topping level. I recommend a Mark Grant copper digital cable there's usually one for sale somewhere at any time. Just watch out for BNC connectors a lot have one at least at one end which is no use to you.
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StanleyB
10-03-2022, 08:17
Good result. My experience is that a decent DAC does wonders for a CD player. I'd suggest getting a decent digital RCA cable rather than optical if your player has an RCA digital output.
My experience as a former CDP repair engineer is that the digital RCA output on many CD players is a tiny wire wound transformer that can be worse than the optical output. That transformer only gives out 0.6V, which then needs to be amplified to 5V in the external DAC. And digital amps are prone to jitter at this level. There is also an issue with mains and circuit noise using that metal cable as a conduit to get into the DAC.
walpurgis
10-03-2022, 08:19
The PD-8700 only has optical out I believe.
Pioneer stable platters make great transports, I used one for years. You don't need to upgrade with a dac at the Topping level.
lol. It offers audibly perfect D to A conversion, what would you possibly 'upgrade' to?
Lawrence001
10-03-2022, 11:09
lol. It offers audibly perfect D to A conversion, what would you possibly 'upgrade' to?I meant upgrade the transport, getting the right "flavour" of DAC to suit your taste is a can of worms!
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I meant upgrade the transport, getting the right "flavour" of DAC to suit your taste is a can of worms!
Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk
I thought you were suggesting that the Topping is not good enough to be worth a better transport.
I use the Audiolab with a Topping, really can't fault the combo on SQ. Not sure what would better it as a transport. I'm just not keen on the slot-loading. I just find it a little awkward in use. Now I've got the transport situated at chest-height it's not bugging me as much. Minor irritation but I'd rather have no in-use irritations for something I'm using multiple times every day.
So I can live with it but I did have a scout around for a transport that had a drawer or was top-loading and there are a few but considerably more expensive and there was nothing about them that indicated that they would do a better job in terms of sound quality. To justify the spend I'd want an improvement there as well as the 'pleasure of use', so I've not pursued it further at the moment.
Lawrence001
10-03-2022, 13:33
I thought you were suggesting that the Topping is not good enough to be worth a better transport.
.
I was! the D30s at the budget end of their range and the Pioneer is very good. Now a D90 might be another matter.
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I was! the D30s at the budget end of their range and the Pioneer is very good. Now a D90 might be another matter.
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Price doesn't equal performance though, especially not with DACs.
Lawrence001
10-03-2022, 16:11
This is true but is the Audiolab necessarily "better" than a Pioneer SP?
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This is true but is the Audiolab necessarily "better" than a Pioneer SP?
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quite possibly not.
Theadmans
10-03-2022, 17:45
The Audiolab has got a lot of fans...
...but is a slot loader. A number of people on the Steve Hoffman forum have reported that it scratches discs.
The Cambridge CXC is a conventional drawer loader and is also well thought as a transport.
Mikeandvan
10-03-2022, 19:36
The PD-8700 only has optical out I believe.
Yep
The Audiolab has got a lot of fans...
...but is a slot loader. A number of people on the Steve Hoffman forum have reported that it scratches discs.
They're mistaken IME.
My experience as a former CDP repair engineer is that the digital RCA output on many CD players is a tiny wire wound transformer that can be worse than the optical output. That transformer only gives out 0.6V, which then needs to be amplified to 5V in the external DAC. And digital amps are prone to jitter at this level. There is also an issue with mains and circuit noise using that metal cable as a conduit to get into the DAC.
Looks like I maybe wrong.
Lawrence001
11-03-2022, 02:29
I've often thought about the electrical Vs optical debate. Advice in the early days of DACs was to use optical as you maintained electrical isolation, but at some point the preference seems to have veered towards electrical. I've done a few comparisons over the years and always landed on electrical. However it was always because the music sounded a bit more lively and detailed that way. Maybe this is the result of jitter or distortion. Might be worth revisiting and giving the optical longer to bed in (to my ears that is).
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I did a comparison years ago and thought optical sounded a tiny bit softer. But with my current equipment I can't distinguish between the two.
walpurgis
11-03-2022, 07:40
I've often thought about the electrical Vs optical debate. Advice in the early days of DACs was to use optical as you maintained electrical isolation, but at some point the preference seems to have veered towards electrical. I've done a few comparisons over the years and always landed on electrical. However it was always because the music sounded a bit more lively and detailed that way
That has been my experience too. In my system, trying over a dozen different DACs over the years with a great variety of CD players and transports linked up with various optical or electrical cables, I invariably preferred electrical. I stopped experimenting with optical cables years ago
AJSki2fly
11-03-2022, 15:45
They're mistaken IME.
They are mistaken I have the 8300CDQ which uses the same slot mech. and it is fine
Theadmans
12-03-2022, 17:46
They're mistaken IME.
Mistaken probably not the right word - there are definitely numerous cases of players that scratch discs (perhaps a certain batch).
Here is the whole 22 page discussion - lots of happy users but also plenty of disgruntled customers:-
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/audiolab-6000cdt-cd-transport.860164/
I don't have the Audiolab so have no axe to grind.
But I do have a circa £900 Creek 50CD player with a slot loader...
...just occasionally on eject it will say BLOCKED and the disc will only come part way out. A second eject is succesful.
Tiny scratches (about a millimetre long) can be discerned on the playing surface. They don't affect playback but it doesn't help my OCD!
The Creek is over 5 years old and out of warranty - but I won't buy another slot loader.
I've read the whole thread months ago. I stand by my assertion. A dodgy batch is very unlikely, and if you look at how the mech works then you can see that it would need to be completely different to start doing damage.
I think most likely is that the discs were already scratched since even brand new discs can show marks. Or they have been careless inserting the disc and scraped it on the edge of the slot.
I probably would not buy another slot loader either but only because I find it more awkward to use than a drawer, especially in low light.
One of the advantages of CD is that it is fairly robust in any case, especially compared to vinyl where you are slightly damaging the disc every time you play it. What does that do for OCD?
Theadmans
13-03-2022, 11:15
I've not really got OCD!
But if I did have - I would be OK with the turntable vinyl wear process (as it is a natural part of the designed process).
With a properly designed CD player - you shouldn't get scratches (unless you are cack handed).
I have tested my Creek slot loader with an unblemished free magazine disc.
I looked at the disc surface before insertion (to ensure the disc surface was perfect)...
...I then inserted and ejected the disc several times.
As I say you occasionally get tiny little marks (which cannot be polished out).
I have some discs that are worth a lot on the collector's market - so it is a concern.
The slot loader in the Suzuki Cappucino sports car I had in the mid 90s used to scratch discs more regularly...
https://parkers-images.bauersecure.com/gallery-image/wp-images/1649/static-exterior/852x568/cappuccino_05_1994-.jpg
...a lot of my mid 90s car listening discs now have the characteristic marks.
When I crashed the Suzuki and wrote it off - I accidentally left "The Best Of New Order" in the car's player. That disc was riddled with circular scratches (so no big loss!)
Steve Hoffman readers are normally really anal about disc handling etc (so I wouldn't rule out what they say entirely).
I did test mine with a brand new and - as far as I could see - unblemished disc. Did 5 inserts and exits, no marks at all.
I could easily sell the Audiolab on or put it in the spares pile if I decided I didn't want to use it anymore and buy something else instead, I can afford to. But I'm not spending money for no reason.
The people on SHF complaining struck me as the types who would complain about anything. They seem to think a few marks on a CD mean it will lose fidelity, even though it still plays without interruption, which is incorrect.
The reality is that marks on a CD don't equate to damage. The disc will still play perfectly. Some swirls or scratches on the surface just don't matter a jot. So whether their Audiolabs mark discs or not is irrelevant.
Theadmans
13-03-2022, 16:17
Some swirls or scratches on the surface just don't matter a jot. So whether their Audiolabs mark discs or not is irrelevant.
...unless you want to sell high value discs on Discogs (which gives separate gradings for media and sleeve materials).
If you are playing the latest Adele disc - probably not an issue...
...but a Japanese Factory Joy Division CD box set for £300 would be a shame scratch.
...unless you want to sell high value discs on Discogs (which gives separate gradings for media and sleeve materials).
If you are playing the latest Adele disc - probably not an issue...
...but a Japanese Factory Joy Division CD box set for £300 would be a shame scratch.
I never look at CDs on Discogs. Do you mean that they grade them on how many marks are visible on the surface? If so that's silly of them. I can see in that case why you might worry about the value of a rare CD being diminished though.
Found a disc that will not play on the Audiolab. A Thievery Corporation album. It's not a 'proper' red book CD but it would play fine on my Sony SACD player from 2003.
Just gives me 'bad disc' message.
hifinutt
13-03-2022, 17:42
makes a good transport
https://www.hifiwigwam.com/forum/threads/marantz-6007-cd-in-silver.107806/
Mikeandvan
13-03-2022, 18:49
Can't believe I've had this DAC for 2/3 years sat in a box! It's tremendous, best upgrade ever.
Theadmans
14-03-2022, 19:15
I never look at CDs on Discogs. Do you mean that they grade them on how many marks are visible on the surface? If so that's silly of them. I can see in that case why you might worry about the value of a rare CD being diminished though.
Yep CD playing surfaces are graded separately to the sleeve. Maybe not as important as vinyl but still a thing in tge collector's world.
Mikeandvan
10-04-2022, 18:21
Enjoying the new DAC but now thinking of getting a better transport. I see old Sony's are the most sort after, the CD players and the SACD players, which one's to go for? £500 max.
Lawrence001
11-04-2022, 21:03
I'm not sure they are, Marantz CD94 is good, as is Meridian 506. Pioneer stable platter pretty good too the higher end elite ones anyway.
Mikeandvan
11-04-2022, 21:51
I'm not sure they are, Marantz CD94 is good, as is Meridian 506. Pioneer stable platter pretty good too the higher end elite ones anyway.
I was reading something about the VDRS mechanism?
Lawrence001
11-04-2022, 22:26
I was reading something about the VDRS mechanism?Yes another good range, but you want the proper heavy metal ones not the budget plasticky ones (like the T1 I think it was).
Lawrence001
11-04-2022, 22:29
Interesting piece here
http://www.lampizator.eu/lampizator/references/TEAC-T1/VRDS-T1.html
Yes another good range, but you want the proper heavy metal ones not the budget plasticky ones (like the T1 I think it was).
Yes, they really are built like a tank. A friend of mine had one, but I don't remember the model number.
If you can live with slot loading just get an Audiolab 6000T.
Brand new so you should get the maximum amount of time before you have to worry about replacing it.
Mikeandvan
07-05-2022, 22:12
Technics Sl-P2000 ? Seen one for £700, bit overpriced?
If you don't know anyone who can fix them I'd advise against getting expensive, old CD players. You'll just end up with loads of faulty ones like me.
If you don't know anyone who can fix them I'd advise against getting expensive, old CD players. You'll just end up with loads of faulty ones like me.
https://media.giphy.com/media/LpM872FjZASlTCw2uK/giphy.gif
Mikeandvan
09-05-2022, 08:43
Guy's also got this less expensive player, for £250, no remote though, which kind of kills it really, would it be possible to find an alternative remote?
Denon DVD-A11 CD / SACD / DVD-A / DVD Transport CD Player
Lawrence001
09-05-2022, 11:48
Can't comment on that model but I did find the 3910 too smooth and relaxed compared to a Sony QS universal player.
had a 2900.. sold it with remote but used to have a spare remote for it. need to look for it.
If you can live with slot loading just get an Audiolab 6000T.
Brand new so you should get the maximum amount of time before you have to worry about replacing it.
My system is no slouch and I use this transport when I want to have a quick play of CDs, rather than my music server onto which I have to transfer CD files. It is very good and I never find myself being disappointed by its performance. Highly recommended and of course, being new, it comes with guarantees.
6000CDT responds well to "traditional" CD player tweaks,
better feet, putting a weight on top..that kind of thing.
Worth spending a bit of time on it?
gets more out of an already great sounding Audiolab transport.
I recently bought a very second hand Arcam Alpha 5 plus CD player. I haven't used anything else since. I just seems to "boogie". Probably not super accurate but a joy to listen to.
Mikeandvan
15-09-2022, 22:10
I recently bought a very second hand Arcam Alpha 5 plus CD player. I haven't used anything else since. I just seems to "boogie". Probably not super accurate but a joy to listen to.
Can you connect a dac to those? Nice looking player.
nonuffin
16-09-2022, 08:20
Can you connect a dac to those? Nice looking player.
It has an SPDIF coaxial digital output (RCA) so you can connect it to an external DAC.
Lawrence001
16-09-2022, 09:06
My Arcam 7SE boogies too. I've always thought Arcam made their sources a little more forward (but not in a bad way) to make up for the smoother sound of their amps but others may disagree.
walpurgis
16-09-2022, 09:49
I have a couple of Pioneer PD-S505 Precision players that are very musical devices, they double as excellent CD transports too, great sounds for not much money. Just remember to place the disc in the drawer upside down :).
There is a 505 precision on eBay now for £150 + postage.
Filterlab
22-09-2022, 19:47
Anything with a VRDS mechanism is a winner. TEAC we're the originators, I believe, and Pioneer adopted the tech.
Lawrence001
23-09-2022, 15:49
There are VRDS transports and VRDS transports, the chunky ones are better.
Mikeandvan
13-10-2022, 13:50
I spotted a Meridian G08 on Hifi wigwam, and have gone for that, seemed good value at £650.
I spotted a Meridian G08 on Hifi wigwam, and have gone for that, seemed good value at £650.
£2.5K new 15 years ago, so I suppose not bad price. I think they are a bit bland looking though, prefer the old Meridian style with the pin stripes myself.
loonytunes
18-10-2022, 19:50
My system is no slouch and I use this transport when I want to have a quick play of CDs, rather than my music server onto which I have to transfer CD files. It is very good and I never find myself being disappointed by its performance. Highly recommended and of course, being new, it comes with guarantees.
Wow your system certainly is no slouch. How does your dedicated CD Transports fare against the SW1X streamer as a transport?
Now this may seem like an unfair question based on the price difference between the two but some seem to be adamant that a good CD source is still better than any streamer based source sound quality wise (not convenience obviously).
Just wondering how good the 6000CDT is in that respect.
The Jay's Audio CDT is meant to be very good too!
Mikeandvan
19-10-2022, 19:29
£2.5K new 15 years ago, so I suppose not bad price. I think they are a bit bland looking though, prefer the old Meridian style with the pin stripes myself.
yer, those old one's are nice, but I thought 2 boxes, take up too much space. Now the G08 has arrived as its rather large itself!!
yer, those old one's are nice, but I thought 2 boxes, take up too much space. Now the G08 has arrived as its rather large itself!!
Is it okay then?
Mikeandvan
19-10-2022, 20:02
Is it okay then?
It's bigger than the standard cd player. Sounds pretty good, played a few cds, though worryingly it did skip on one of them, and stopped playing, I'll have to see how it performs over the next few days, hopefully it was just a blip, as it's had a recent service apparently. But sounds wise, so far I'm impressed. Just need a remote now.
Mikeandvan
20-10-2022, 20:41
This G08 is a definite step from my previous Pioneer PD8700+Toppping DAC set up. Being thoroughly enjoying playing some old classical cds. I'd say the biggest upgrade is of presence, the music feels more realistic, and of course things you'd expect like added timbre, but weight and presence in the main. Thanks to Spenagio for this one. Now where do I get a suitable remote? Don't want an Meridian MSR one, they're too big.
Lawrence001
21-10-2022, 12:33
All my 50x Meridians took Philips/Marantz remotes not sure if that still held for this one
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