Denon DL-110 or DL-160

[Canetoad]

I have a Rega Planar 3 with RB300 arm and Goldring 1012GX cartridge and wanted to try a Denon MC cartridge to see what all the fuss was about. I'm looking at getting a DL-110 or DL-160 but want some advice on whether the 160 is worth paying extra for? From all accounts I've read they seem to be very close in performance.

[jonners]

Hi Bernie,
Yes I've heard the same. I used to have a 110 and was happy with it, but I much prefer the (cheaper!) DL-103 that I use now. Do you have to have a high output MC?

[Batty]

2nd hand DL-110s can be had for around 50 quid (thats what I paid for mine) not sure about the 160, but the 110 is a very good performer at its price point. I have a Goldring 1042 but have not run it against the 110 as yet.

[Canetoad]

I use a Cambridge Audio 640P phono stage so can use low output MC cartridges if I like.

While I like the sound from the Goldring I don't really have anything else to compare it with. My last turntable many years ago was a Pioneer PL-300 which, from memory, didn't sound that great.

I figured it was time to try something else. I have a budget of about £150 and thought I'd rather have a 2nd cartridge to use than just upgrading the Goldring stylus to a 1042.

[chris@panteg]

Hi Bernie

I use a DL160 , and until recently was using a 640p with it , but became dissatisfied with the combination ' (not enough gain and drive with the mm input , with the mc input too much gain and it sounded a little odd with the 100 ohm setting .

So i would sway you away from getting either and pehaps consider something like an ATF3 http://www.soundhifi.com/AT-F3III.html

This will work perfectly with your mc input 640 , though it is a little bright sounding ' so a dem would be in order , just in case you hated it .

Or a better MM .

[DSJR]

The 1042 was always good with Rega's we found, but the DL110 was a good alternative to the 1006, which it compared roughly with in price. As the 1006 could be upgraded to the 1042, we didn't do so much with the 110 at the time.

The 160 supposedly has a tapered cantilever and I believe slightly higher compliance, but on test (listening and measurement), there's beggar all difference. Indeed, HiFi Choice marginally preferred the 110 of the two. Today, the silly price difference between the two makes the DL110 a no-brainer I think.

[Canetoad]

With my setup I have to run attenuators (10dB) on my CD and Caiman inputs so I can go past 9 o'clock on the amp's volume control, so I don't think there'll be a problem with gain on the 110/160. Might try the 110 and see how I go. Times are tuff...

Thanks for the advice everyone.

[chris@panteg]

Ahh yes in that case go for the 110 , does your amp have very sensitive inputs ! my 740a is a little on the low side , the mm input would be best .

i should add that my 160 a nice sweet sounding cart , very smooth perhaps too smooth .

The 110 would just as good perhaps a little livlier .

[southall-1998]

The DL-160 is a very good cartridge. Good VFM.

[Marco]

Hi 'southall-1998',

Welcome to AOS! :)

Could you please pop into the Welcome area and introduce yourself to our community by supplying your first name, system details and music tastes, as this is a requirement for all new members joining AOS.

Cheers! :cool:

ATB,
Marco.

[ReggieB]

I needed to replace the needle on my 1042 a fews year back. At the time a DL110 was about the same price as a new needle for the 1042, so I bought one to try as something different. It was OK, but not as good as the 1042. In the end I got another needle for the 1042. My father now has my DL110, which he is happy with.

September's Hi-Fi World has a good review of the AT-F3/III that Chris recommended. I have to admit to quite fancying trying one of those out for a change.

[Batty]

Swapped out the DL110 inserted 1042, the Denon was nice but sorry the Goldring wins. Just more of everything, tracks better too and the initial background noise on the lead in is quieter. I am comparing a DL110 with about 60 hours with a 1042 with about 3 hours run. Fitted to a OL structurally modded RB250 with cardas internals and foam filled by AO all on a 1986 Rock.

[Canetoad]

I've only had the amp for about a month now. It is a new (NOS) NAD C-372 and at first sounded quite bright in my setup. I think most of that was due to the amp it replaced, a Marantz PM-66 KI. I suspect the Marantz has more to do with the perceived brightness of the NAD as that is what I was used to. The Marantz sounded more analogue than the NAD. It's a nice amp and produces a sound I like.

I bought the NAD as I'd read reviews saying it was quite transparent. My speakers are rated at 200 watts and I figured the NAD (150 watts) would drive them better than the Marantz (50 watts). The downside was that I needed very little on the volume pot to listen at a reasonable level. The attenuators worked fine and, now I have a few hours of use on the NAD, the sound is quite good. Very clean. A bit more hifi I guess but there you go.

The NAD has RCA bridges connecting the internal pre and power sections on the back. I am thinking of trying a tube pre-amp at a later date, using the NAD power amp to drive the speakers. This might give me a bit more warmth. I'm not sure if mixing valve/ss works or not. I've never listened to valve equipment to see if it is the "sound" I'm looking for. I've always be a S/S hifi kind of guy.

I sat down and had a listen to Dark Side of the Moon on the weekend on the Rega, comparing it to the CD and Squeezebox/Caiman combo I have and the Rega's soundstage is the best by far and, overall, sounds more "right" than either the CD or SB. It has sparked my interest in my vinyl collection again.

Reading the various threads here has got me interested in seeing what sort of improvements I can make to my system to get a bit more out of it.

[southall-1998]

Is the Goldring 2500 cartridge any good? And does it work well with an RB250?

[Hypnotoad]

I had the Goldring 1012 GX and found it to be very forward, giving a wall of sound effect, the only things I didn't like about it were it seemed to highlight surface noise and was a little harsh in the top end. But maybe that could be fixed with a better stylus like you considered.

I also had a Denon DL-110 which is much more laid back than the Goldring, it gives a nice sound stage but can be a bit grainy, it has a much gentler sound to it.

They are very different animals and have very different characteristics. Let your ears be the judge.

I then got a Benz Micro Ace and it blew both of them away.

[Hypnotoad]

Just heard that the Denon DL-160 has been discontinued by Denon.

Supplies are drying up fast here in the U.S.

The Needle Doctor has this on their website: "Discontinued Item - Limited Quantities Available".

Anyone loving this cart may want to jump in now before they run out completely.

[DSJR]

I've only had the amp for about a month now. It is a new (NOS) NAD C-372 and at first sounded quite bright in my setup. I think most of that was due to the amp it replaced, a Marantz PM-66 KI. I suspect the Marantz has more to do with the perceived brightness of the NAD as that is what I was used to. The Marantz sounded more analogue than the NAD. It's a nice amp and produces a sound I like.



From experience of ear-bleeding, screaming dems, the PM66 KI was the tinniest and harshest sounding amp with any pretense to upper-budget end of the period it came from - and I used sources of all abilities and a huge variety of speakers with it. Either the bloody thing needed years of running-in (or wearing out) or the NAD is faulty if it sounds brighter IMO.

At the time, I checked with other dealers and the PM66Ki-Sig was one product that dealers stocked for the WTF blind customers who bought a collection of 5* products to make a system. The CD63KI-Sig went the same way towards the end,

And you wonder why I have my doubts about KI San.......

[Canetoad]

Well, I finally decided to get a Nagoaka MP-150 MM cartridge. I couldn't make up my mind which Denon to get. A 110/160 or go for a 103. I'll leave MC cartridges for a while longer. I'm looking forward to listening to the Nagaoka. I know Marco likes them.

Next upgrade I'd like to make is to replace the CA 640P with a better phono stage. After scanning through previous posts I haven't got a clue what's good value for money. I'd be interested in 2nd hand or maybe DIY to get the best bang for my buck. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Looking at a budget of about £250-300. :)

[Haselsh1]

Late last year I was using a Denon DL160 cartridge but changed my preamp to a Croft with built in phono stage and at the same time went back to my original Ortofon OM30 Super. Was I pleased I did. The Ortofon made the Denon sound awful. I sold the Denon on ebay for more than I paid for it :-)

For those who wish to know; the Denon sounded grainy and heavily confused compared to the Ortofon which had a beautiful shimmery clarity to it with astonishing high frequencies and mid band.