Tube / Valve amp

[vinylmagic]

My appetite / interest has been piqued after listening to a friends homebrew 1.5wpc amp.

I know less than nothing about this type of equipment and would app appreciate anyone steering me in the right direction to gain some knowledge.
Thanks

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[hifi_dave]

1.5 wpc is about loud enough to drive headphones. Unless you have ridiculously high efficient speakers, you need far more power than that.

[Pigmy Pony]

If possible try to hear a few systems using valve amps - maybe some members here are close by. Whether valves are for you will depend on a number of things, like music tastes, partnering equipment, what volume levels you like.

[vinylmagic]

1.5 wpc is about loud enough to drive headphones. Unless you have ridiculously high efficient speakers, you need far more power than that.He said his 300b? system he built was 1.5wpc so can only go by what he said and it drove his speakers plenty lid enough mordant short ms20s

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[Macca]

Have a look at this thread and the videos linked on it https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/tube-vs-solid-state-amplifiers.10407/

[Lawrence001]

The MS20 are decent budget speakers that can be traced back to Robin Marshall and early Epos designs, but they're not particularity efficient so I'm surprised they sounded good unless limited to acoustic music at quite a low volume.

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[Macca]

My power amp has indicators, first one lights if more than 750 mW is output for a couple of seconds or more. It pretty much never lights up. You really have to be blasting it out before that happens, the speakers have sensitivity of 90dB

So 1.5 watts can be enough assuming that there's enough power reserve for brief peaks. Even so if it's a valve amp it will clip softly so you can get away with it.

Turn it up so it's continually exceeding it's limit though and it will get a bit mushy, but not in an unpleasant way like a solid state amp sounds if you clip it continually.

Not saying it is a good idea to have so little power available though, there's no advantage to it.

[Andy831]

Have a look at this Decware website, and particularly Read the designers notes and theories about his 1.8w amplifiers.

https://www.decware.com/newsite/homepage.html

[hifinutt]

https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?74346-For-Sale-Boyuu-Reisong-A10-Class-A-SET-Tube-Amp

not sure if suitable for your speakers but well priced

[Pigmy Pony]

https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?74346-For-Sale-Boyuu-Reisong-A10-Class-A-SET-Tube-Amp

not sure if suitable for your speakers but well priced

I was thinking that very same thing - a nice looking amp, and (relatively) cheap way for Stewart to dip his toe. And if he decides it's not for him he could sell it on with little or no loss, then buy my Audion Silver Night :D Would cost a lot more than £275 though.

[Jazid]

To the original poster:

If you like the music that you heard from Flea-powered SET amps then please ignore the nay-sayers. You might prefer the high efficiency speaker route, many do including me, it is a different presentation. We all hear differently, what pleases me will not please everyone. Being lectured about the science (much though I agree in principle) simply doesn't help with enjoyment.

Get efficient, single driver speakers, and fill yer boots with the midrange magic. It's not too popular but it is a lucid sound at modest volumes, quite addictive, and quite affordable to dabble as well. Try DIYaudio for ideas about amps and the FS threads.


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[vinylmagic]

Hi all
My speakers are the celestion 33s which I think are 90db rated so reasonably efficient.
As I said my mates amp was a diy project and he says its 1.5wpc and drove those MS20s loud enough for me to back away by 10ft or so.

This is a single line level input, and using a cdp to play some genesis or other mor, stuff that doesn't really float my boat but sounded quite pleasant.

I will read up on the info you posted

Many thanks [emoji4]

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[Jonboy]

I run a 2A3 scratch amp built by a friend of mine some years back based on the Loftin white circuit , this is around 1.5 watts and sounds amazing , but looks fugly and plenty loud enough through my Tannoys , it does go a bit Woolley if driven very hard but under normal listening levels it sings , I took it to the Pie show one year and ran it on a pair of Tannoy GRF’s that someone had built , certainly filled that large listening room with fantastic sound

A bit more info on Loftin Whit here
https://i.postimg.cc/bJ6WbQS6/51-F2-CF0-F-0610-47-C4-93-E8-84347-FFE60-DD.jpg

pic of mine

https://i.postimg.cc/bJ6WbQS6/51-F2-CF0-F-0610-47-C4-93-E8-84347-FFE60-DD.jpg

[RockAddict]

@vinylmagic: Tempting isn't it? :) This story (aka ramble) might help. Or not...

I have a Willsenton R8 valve/tube amp, delivered March last year (2021). Like you, I'd never had a valve amp and then saw an online review that piqued my interest. I'd just moved on a piece of equipment so had the budget and decided to purchase it purely as an experiment intended for "system 2". Needless to say, I couldn't resist trying the R8 in the main system with a Bluesound Node 2i as source, the latter also purchased for "system 2". At the time, the amp setup for the main system featured a NAD C658 (pre/streamer/DAC) with a PS Audio Stellar S300 (power amp).

Oh dear... The R8 never made it to "system 2". Very quickly, the NAD and PS Audio became redundant and were eventually moved on. I much preferred the audio character of the Node 2i / Willsenton R8 combo to the previous NAD/PS Audio combo. Since then, I've added an external DAC for the Node 2i and a Quad Artera Pre into the chain. The Quad was intended to be a standalone h/ph amp but it works well in the main chain thus negating the need to split cables from the DAC to two separate amps.

Having had a host of "buyer's regret" moments in the 2-3 years before stumbling to the current setup, the R8 is staying put despite causing a logistical nightmare for my living space. With previous setups, listening to music had become secondary to listening to hi-fi and the R8 has has been a big factor in rediscovering the fun of listening to music ahead of listening to hi-fi.

The point of this story is that it happened to work out rather well for me but, of course, YMMV (a lot!). My suggestion is to take a similar approach; this being to dip your toe into valve amps as an experiment. Note that changing valves in and out ("tube rolling") can quickly take on a life of its own - a potentially VERY expensive rabbit hole. Budget limitations means I've stuck to "reissue" modern valves but I struck lucky quite quickly and got a combination that I like. Some have spent £000s on valves / tubes, so you're forewarned!

If you go down the valve/tube road, good luck - I hope you end up with a great sounding setup (for you).


NB1: Speaker sensitivity... My own speakers are stated as being 86dB but are driven comfortably by the R8 at volumes more than loud enough for most normal UK living spaces. As other posters have said, you're likely to need speakers with a higher level of sensitivity if you have a very low powered amp.

NB2: Importing hi-fi... Don't forget shipping + import duty + handling costs may be payable on top of the listed price. UK VAT may also be due and this would be on the TOTAL of all the previously mentioned costs/price. Some suppliers include shipping in the price, some don't. For the R8, shipping and list price were clearly identified and I budgeted extra for duty / VAT etc. However, no separate charges have been billed to me and the R8 was delivered for the stated list+shipping cost. For the record, I did "the right thing" and contacted HMRC to find out if any extra was due and, if so, how to pay it. In short, HMRC were supremely unhelpful and couldn't, or wouldn't, give any useful information (the website was also next to useless).

[vinylmagic]

@RockAddict
That's a great post, and has really set my mind to look into a valve amp. At the moment funds have been depleted due to buying a lovely Pioneer SA9500ii recently and I'm trying to find someone interested in buying my project 2xperience TT, together with what I have cobbled together would give me approx £600 towards a valve amp.
and in the short turn I could use the pioneer as a pre. TBH I only have a TT, CDP & CDR connected but I may dabble in getting a streamer/ dac in the future.

Thanks again for the great posts on here [emoji106]

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[Bonky]

I have a WD Kel 84 (http://www.world-designs.co.uk) and have been very impressed with it. I built it as a kit and then asked the provider to check the wiring.

Please keep us up to date with your 'journey'.

Richard

[walpurgis]

That's a great post, and has really set my mind to look into a valve amp

Choose carefully and listen to what you're buying first if you can. Like some transistor amps, valves can also sound pretty average.

[vinylmagic]

Going to see the one for sale on here this afternoon as its local it to me

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[walpurgis]

If you mean the Reisong unit, I'm sure it will be fine. Good price!

[vinylmagic]

Well I bought the Reisong A-10 amp from Steve, and what can I say? Its like a revelation in clarity from my aegis Evo 3 speakers that's I've never taken too.

This little amp running a cheap 30 yrs old Sony XE370 CDP through these speakers has given me a sound that I thought I would afford.

Its a little bright when pushed but need to swap out the CDP for my Denon SACD as I find that is much smoother. Too say I'm impressed is one of the biggest understatements ever.

One of the best £275 and decisions I've made in a long long long time.

Thanks and back to listening

Stewart



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[vinylmagic]

Gonna need to find some money for a phono box so I can here what vinyl sounds like

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[walpurgis]

If the sound is bright, it's probably not the amp. Could be cables, especially speaker cables.

[Pigmy Pony]

Stewart did mention it sounding bright when pushed hard, might just be a simple case of the amp working a bit hard.

[Jazid]

El34 so probably push pull, could sound bright if pushed.

Enjoy the ride, valves do stuff solid state doesn't seem to achieve for all its undeniable technical prowess and 'controlled bass' . And yes I have several of each! At last count two SET, three Push Pull valve, one SIT transistor, one class D, two class ab tranny. I love them all but to me SET amps are where the magic starts.

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[RockAddict]

@vinylmagic. The video in the following YouTube link won't add much but the comments about valve/tube experiences might be more useful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OiGg4JOxOc

Also, an overview (one of many):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p1KNiuKLOY

Lots of other uploads on YT about the A10, although some need to be taken with a pinch of salt.


As with most things hi-fi, valve/tube options boil down to budget limits and personal preference. Lots of choices for the A10 and maybe you get lucky quite quickly in finding a combo that works for you.

Happy listening; enjoy the music.

[vinylmagic]

Another question

I notice the speaker outputs are both 4/8 ohm, the AE 3's are only 8 ohm loading but still sound better than ever through this amp however my Ditton 33's can handle 4 ohms
My question to you is there any benefit running them this low?

TIA

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[Lawrence001]

If the AEs can handle 8 ohms aren't they twice as good as the 33s if they can only handle 4 ohms?

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[Lawrence001]

El34 so probably push pull, could sound bright if pushed.

Enjoy the ride, valves do stuff solid state doesn't seem to achieve for all its undeniable technical prowess and 'controlled bass' . And yes I have several of each! At last count two SET, three Push Pull valve, one SIT transistor, one class D, two class ab tranny. I love them all but to me SET amps are where the magic starts.

Sent from my BLA-L09 using TapatalkI think there's only 1 EL34 per channel.

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[vinylmagic]

If the AEs can handle 8 ohms aren't they twice as good as the 33s if they can only handle 4 ohms?

Sent from my BKL-L09 using TapatalkThe 33s can handle 4-8 ohm loadings, I'm just asking if they're sound better running 4 ohms over 8, or is it just making them a more flexible speaker to use with amps that only offer 4 ohm outputs

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[Macca]

The 8 ohm and ohm taps are to better match the amp with the speaker, not the other way around.

I'd guess the AE speakers would be better on the 4 ohm tap and the Ditton 33 on the 8 ohm tap. The best way is to try each configuration.

Because the amplifier has output transformers its frequency response will be altered by the load presented by the speaker. Ideally you want a speaker with higher impedance and as gentle an impedance curve as possible to give the most accurate output from the amp. The Celestions will be closer to that than the AE speakers.

[walpurgis]

Another question

I notice the speaker outputs are both 4/8 ohm, the AE 3's are only 8 ohm loading but still sound better than ever through this amp however my Ditton 33's can handle 4 ohms
My question to you is there any benefit running them this low?


It won't matter. Just use whichever speaker outputs you think sound best.

Also, it's not the speaker that will "handle 4 ohms" it's the amplifier. Speakers present the load the amp handles it (usually :)).

[vinylmagic]

It won't matter. Just use whichever speaker outputs you think sound best.

Also, it's not the speaker that will "handle 4 ohms" it's the amplifier. Speakers present the load the amp handles it (usually :)).Of course was never any good with physics at school. I blame my teacher who couldn't be bothered trying to teach

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[Lawrence001]

From my experience speakers that say 4-8 ohms tend to hit 4 in the bass, and that's where the transformer matching matters most so I always go 4, but do try both first to make sure.

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[vinylmagic]

Well my speakers sound abs shite on 4ohms, so that was a quick experiment
But on a positive my new tube amp is sounding sweet.

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[vinylmagic]

My new set up, had a clear out and change of racking and now gave a sweet tube amp running through the pioneer sa9500 until I can get a new phono amp https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220216/5a1b7e3f03920c2fed7431ff3f5fee0a.jpg

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