Denon DCD-1600NE SACD/CD Player

[WOStantonCS100]

I have been needledropping to 24/192 for years now using Tascam master recorders. I have wanted a standalone disc player capable of playing these .wav files straight off a burned DVD data disc for quite some time. I finally bit the bullet and ordered one of these units. Hopefully, it will arrive early this coming week.

Does anyone here have and use this unit on the regular for CD playback, high res file playback from DVD-data discs or both? How do you like the sound? Has the unit been reliable?

Thanks.

[WOStantonCS100]

It arrived, yesterday. I stayed up 'til about 3 AM putting it through some preliminaries. Not meant to be a review...

Unlike normal, I decided to go at it hard with idea that if it "fell out" I would just pack it up and send it back. I started with a 24/192 needledrop of a 2 LP set on one DVD-R Dual Layer disc (Oliver Nelson - A Dream Deferred). It read and played the disc without issue. There was a little rotational noise (which after playing several other discs) I will attribute to a significantly enough, unbalanced DVD-R DL. Next I tried a DVD-R MDISC, a light-scribe DVD, a normal DVD+R and a normal DVD-R. No problems. Read them all. I have yet to try a re-writeable DVD. All the previous were loaded with 24/192 needledrops. The 1600NE did not care whether the files were at the root level or nested in a folder. It found them; played them ignoring text, image and other non "music" files. I then tried a CD, CD-R and CD-RW. No issues. It takes several seconds for the machine to recognize what type of disc has been loaded but it is not so long as to be annoying.

It was late and the unit has no headphone amp so my listening was done through the preamp to the master recorder which has a quite good headphone amp. The 24/192 needledrops were everything I expected them to be. Even with the AL32 Plus Processing and even though this is now probably the best CD playback I've had in house, the difference between a needledrop straight to 24/192 and one to 16/44.1 is easily detected. I am going to enjoy listening to CD's on this unit...more so the higher resolution recordings.

This is only day two, so, I have no idea how reliable this machine will be in the long run. Got an extended warranty with it and will be praying it does last because the flexibility and sound is worth it. This weekend, no cans. I will turn it loose and see how it sounds through the JBL's and/or EPI/Yamaha sub setup.

[brian2957]

I've had a couple of old Denon DVD players which I used as CD players. Both built like tanks and both sounded very good indeed. They played everything I threw at them without issue. I'm sure yours will give you long and trouble free service. Big Denon fan here. I look forward to your impressions of this player :)

[WOStantonCS100]

Another day's observations:

Spent almost all day yesterday listening. I started the day with CD (16/44.1) and I thought to myself, this is amazing. Its upsampling (or whatever AL32 Plus does) is actually viable. I have a Marantz VC-6001 which can be set to upsample CD to 88.2 or 176.4. I find it very lackluster and maybe typical of some other upsampling schemes of the time (focusing on sample rate but ignoring bit rate (dynamic expansion?? I'm no expert)). You get this sheen'd, glossed over, overly smooth top end. Analog records/tapes (the good ones) don't sound like that. It's not enjoyable to me. Less harshness but all the peaks, dynamics and insight seem to have been sanded down and rounded off. Not so with this unit. The 1600NE doesn't appear to do that. It just seems to do what it says and fleshes things out more. Bravo!

I have The Byrds - The Complete Columbia Album Collection CD box set. It's horrible. Absolutely, horrid. Foul stench, terrible. Hashy, brittle and insensitive to both canines and felines. Though I have tried several times I have not been able to sit and critically listen to an entire album. I've tried many times with Sweetheart of the Rodeo and Byrdmaniax. A few songs is all I can handle before "my mother calls and I have to get up and go do chores." Honestly, any excuse will do. HOWEVER...with the 1600NE I was able to sit all the way through Byrdmaniax. I actually enjoyed it. Don't get me wrong. It did not become awesome. I had no epiphany or revelation. I have no intention of tossing my vinyl of the same. But, that I could sit through an entire disc?? Kudos to Denon.

That would be the end of the story if I didn't then switch to 24/192 needle and/or tape-drops. Immediately noticeable is a soundstage that is much wider, deeper and taller and the ease that I'm so used to pouring off vinyl and tape is there. It's the same naturalness that in a good analog rig has you putting on record after record, reel after reel until you realize like I did that 4 in the morning is creeping up fast! With cans on it's like I am crawling into the recording. Are the HD Tracks this good? No idea. Does the source matter even if the resulting file is 24/192? Absolutely. But, if the 24/192 HD Tracks are straight off an analog master, transferred with care... ...I may have to get after that especially if my vinyl copy is not, at least, VG+ or better.

The Denon unit is still playing any disc I throw at it; however, when I threw a bought used, well-loved (read, it had plenty of visual scuffs/scratches) CD of Mozart Oboe Concertos (Sarah Francis, oboe, The London Mozart Players, Howard Shelley, conductor - Hyperion CDA66411) it did not skip but the rotational noise returned as if the machine was working extra hard and didn't really like doing so. There are easy remedies for that.

And yet, as good as CD playback is with this spinner, I doubt I will be letting go of my vintage spinners. It's like giving up a vintage conical Ortofon SPU just because you've got a van den Hul with a more extreme stylus profile...same as having more than one car in the garage (but only one spouse, let's not get into trouble). Happy to have it. Vintage spinners don't do higher res.

[WOStantonCS100]

The remote control

Yes. No "eject" button on the remote control.

I am grimacing on this. Considering the above, I will be using this player quite regularly if not daily which means many times, perhaps per day, pressing the eject button on the player. So, what is the duty cycle of the micro-switch? Once that gets flakey or stops working altogether, does that mean there is no option other than sending it in for a repair (most likely out of warranty)?

I could cut the usage of the Eject button roughly in half as pressing the Play button will automatically close the drawer. Nevertheless, as a fail safe, I feel like an Eject button on the remote control just makes sense; bewildering and disappointing as there is not one. Maybe, there is a universal or another Denon remote with this functionality that can be obtained. It's worth a search. If you know of one, let me know, please.

CD-TEXT and such

Nope... not on this unit (another disappointment). It's not a deal breaker, obviously; but, it would be on my list of revisions. I don't believe it will tell you the title of a data disc if you give it one. What it will tell you is the name of the file you are playing from a data disc.

DIGITAL OUTPUT

I have not tested to see if this player outputs higher res data streams (eg. 16/48, 24/96, 24/192) via it's optical and coax outputs but I intend to and will report my findings.

[hifinutt]

thanks for update . interesting in the rotational noise . nearly bought one s/h but the chap said it had some drive noise so i didnt
then new owner said it was as quiet as a mouse .

good to hear your point of view . they are pretty good value and a good alterantive to marantz [ which are deadly quiet ]

[WOStantonCS100]

So, I am barely two weeks in? I know all about burn-in but this player actually smells like insulation is burning off an internal wire. Not sure because I haven't opened it. It has one of those warranty/tamper stickers on it. Problem is it was put on badly folded over the side and bottom over a protruding screw (the screws aren't flush). Still affixed on the side, the bottom part popped off intact. (I took pictures to prove the "tamper guard" of the sticker has not been compromised; no residue left on the bottom.) And now it begins.

This unit was purchased from Accessories4less.com I also added a 5 year protection plan. I don't want a refund. I don't want store credit. I don't want a charge back on my account. I do want a unit that is not going to ignite itself. I will be contacting them on Monday. Some of you may be thinking "you get what you pay for". However, the unit was still 1K US (as opposed to 1.5K US). That's not chump change to me.

Our modern world sucks in a lot of ways. I am hoping for the best because this player is a very fine sounding machine, the finest sounding consumer disc spinner I have ever had in my system. I'm downplaying my praise because I have yet to own the likes of dCS, Metronome, EMM Labs, PS Audio and Esoteric to name a few who I assume better this player. But, can any of the aforementioned, besides PS Audio, play high-res files off a data disc??

[struth]

you can get smells like that off machines, especially new. is there any signs of smoke, or excess heat? a slight dampness of a new machine thats not been stored optimally for a while can cause that type of odour too. if in doubt alway switch it off when not present until you are sure one way or other

[WOStantonCS100]

you can get smells like that off machines, especially new. is there any signs of smoke, or excess heat? a slight dampness of a new machine thats not been stored optimally for a while can cause that type of odour too. if in doubt alway switch it off when not present until you are sure one way or other

Yes, indeed. Very late (early in the morning). Going to bed and it is unplugged. The site only sells b-stock and refurbs from what I understand so it's had a chance to go through QC twice. Tomorrow is my day to pretty much do nothing which means a lot of music. We'll see if sparks fly.

[Macca]

Another day's observations:

Spent almost all day yesterday listening. I started the day with CD (16/44.1) and I thought to myself, this is amazing. Its upsampling (or whatever AL32 Plus does) is actually viable. I have a Marantz VC-6001 which can be set to upsample CD to 88.2 or 176.4. I find it very lackluster and maybe typical of some other upsampling schemes of the time (focusing on sample rate but ignoring bit rate (dynamic expansion?? I'm no expert)). .

You can't upsample to a higher bit-rate. Sampling rate determines the highest frequency response possible, bit rate determines the highest amplitude possible. You'll struggle to find a recording that requires a bit rate higher than 16 and you would have to play it at very high levels in a very quiet room to have any chance of hearing the benefit.

[struth]

Alpha processing was the world's first technical formula for reproducing 16-bit data in 20-bit quality.

The ALPHA processor interpolates the data recorded on the original CD so that the waveform is more natural. This will result in a more pure waveform that it is much closer to the CD digital signals without any processing. Originally introduced in 1990, the Alpha Processor was developed further to cover the change from standard resolution to high resolution music:
AL32 Processing: Denon has further developed its proprietary AL32 Processing, an analog waveform reproduction technology, to support the 192 kHz sampling frequency. AL32 Processing, thoroughly suppresses quantization noise associated with D/A conversion to reproduce the low-level signals with optimum clarity that will bring out all the delicate nuances of the music.

[walpurgis]

I've noticed that in electronic items that have been unused for a while, resistors can give off the kind of odour mentioned if they get warm. It's not a defect, it's a characteristic. Although, as Grant suggests, best to play safe.

[WOStantonCS100]

You can't upsample to a higher bit-rate. Sampling rate determines the highest frequency response possible, bit rate determines the highest amplitude possible. You'll struggle to find a recording that requires a bit rate higher than 16 and you would have to play it at very high levels in a very quiet room to have any chance of hearing the benefit.

I probably could have said that clearer as I am aware of the difference between sampling rate and bit rate. Instead of just padding, it appears the Denon unit, as they say, adds data points and wizbangery bit squiggling (technical terms). I'm no digital audio engineer so I don't know how else to say that. However, allow me to illustrate thusly. There are two units in my system currently that work wonders with the soundstage (making it sound wider, taller, deeper and all those things that draw me "into" the recording). The first is the Tascam DV-RA1000HD. Aside from being able to record analog direct to 24/192 (and DSD), this recorder will rip CD's to the internal hard drive BUT only at 24/44.1. Playing back the resulting file, the expanded soundstage is noticeable. It's not hard to hear through speakers and is blatantly apparent in a pin-drop quiet house at 2 AM using planar cans. The second is the DCD-1600NE. Same thing. CD's played back on this unit just have better soundstage depth than any other CD player I have by a wide margin including old and "newer" units by Adcom, Marantz and Sony. The difference between the Tascam processing to 24/44.1 and the Denon AL32 Plus is naturalness. At 24/44.1 the Tascam rips still sounds like CD, just with a much better soundstage, if that makes sense. The Denon has the improved soundstage and squelches the rough edges of 44.1 without losing detail like my Marantz VC-6001 which just turns everything to mush with no change in soundstage.

I hear what you're saying (pun intended) but I've never had that difficult of a time differentiating between analog (reel tape or vinyl or high res drop of such) and CD through speakers, even from several feet away (at least in my system). The room seems to magnify the difference, really. At any rate, I'm comfortable not always knowing why there is a difference, just happy to be able to hear and appreciate the difference.

[WOStantonCS100]

Alpha processing was the world's first technical formula for reproducing 16-bit data in 20-bit quality.

The ALPHA processor interpolates the data recorded on the original CD so that the waveform is more natural. This will result in a more pure waveform that it is much closer to the CD digital signals without any processing. Originally introduced in 1990, the Alpha Processor was developed further to cover the change from standard resolution to high resolution music:
AL32 Processing: Denon has further developed its proprietary AL32 Processing, an analog waveform reproduction technology, to support the 192 kHz sampling frequency. AL32 Processing, thoroughly suppresses quantization noise associated with D/A conversion to reproduce the low-level signals with optimum clarity that will bring out all the delicate nuances of the music.

I've read reviews from folks who say they can hear a difference between AL32 Processing and AL32 Plus Processing (the DCD-A110 vs the DCD-1600NE) preferring AL32 Plus. I would imagine that would be somewhat disappointing for A110 owners as that machine is quite a bit more expensive than the 1600NE. But then again, maybe theirs doesn't smell like frying wires. :lol:

[WOStantonCS100]

After another couple of days of the 1600NE causing my listening room to smell acrid, I phoned Accessories4Less. To make the story short, I will be packing up the unit and sending it back to them. I have asked them to fix it (if possible) before taking the option of exchanging it. There's no need to just pass it on to someone else so they can go through the same thing. We will see. We will also see how long it takes. Thankfully, I have other disc spinners. Unfortunately, none of them sound as "natural" as this one. Until it returns, I will miss it. A refund would be a last and sad option; hopefully not.

[Enossification]

For what it is worth, I own a Denon DCD2500NE SACD/CD player. I bought it new in 2020 making it almost two years old. It weighs a ton and is as solid as a rock. Sound wise it is as good as any unit I have ever owned with the SACD option being way better. I can't really comment on reliability as it is only two years old but it performs as any cd player should. I like it.

[WOStantonCS100]

United Radio in East Syracuse, NY now has my unit (received 2-23-2022)

I called just to follow up. (I have other disc spinners so I'm still pretty relaxed at this point, though I do miss its special thing it does with discs.)

What I thought would be just insulation melting off a wire, or a bad discreet component or two, is actually the necessity for the entire disc mechanism to be replaced. Currently, there is no ETA on when that part will arrive. It's only been a couple of weeks. Patience is a virtue.

At any rate, there it is, folks. I'm in a holding pattern.

[Macca]

At least they can get a mech for it.

[WOStantonCS100]

The player arrived back on Thursday without confirmation/follow up that the replacement mechanism had been installed. I am assuming it has been replaced for reasons I will now explain.

As outlined previously, although it smelled badly and fouled the air in the room it was in when it was on, this spinner played every kind of disc in every kind of format I threw at it...and I threw a bunch at it. No problem, just the smell.

NOW........ It is a player with an attitude. It doesn't like some of the CD-R's I played on it without issue prior to sending it in to United Radio for service. Now, it mistracks and plays some of them with static. Some of the same DVD-R's with data tracks now come up as "Unsupported" and won't play at all. They played fine before the unit went in for service.

And... I am not sure the cause of the smell has been eliminated.

This player has now gone through QA at least three times: 1) at Denon off the line 2) surely at Accessories4Less as a first time refurb and 3) just now serviced at United Radio/Syracuse, NY

If you have a good unit, you're golden (probably should knock on wood or something as they say). I am unimpressed. Unfortunately, I'm now in the camp of just return my money and take the unit. I know of more dependable solutions even if they are "multi-box" solutions. We will see how that call goes, tomorrow.

[WOStantonCS100]

I relented (for the moment).

I just received a different unit from Accessories4Less. The two actually crossed in shipping as I sent the initial unit back. This is the last attempt. It is almost annoying to me that the unit sounds good enough to go through all of this hassle. If the issues aren't solved with this unit, I am happy to send it back and call it quits.

I do have to say that Larry Beck at Accessories4Less is one of those guys you want to have around when issues like this come up. I have nothing but good things to say about his involvement in trying to secure a good unit for me. So, thank you, Larry. I hope this one gets it. We're on day two.

[WOStantonCS100]

Machine/unit #2 smells the same as the first...even after 4 straight days of burn in.

So, as we do in the IT world, I turned to the internet to look for "known issues": "Denon DCD-1600NE smells bad"

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/new-denon-dcd1600ne-burning-smell.323963/

https://www.avforums.com/threads/denon-pma-2500ne-dcd1600ne-review.2247884/page-10

https://www.amazon.com/ask/questions/Tx1O5RBIVK2X1QA/ref=ask_ql_ql_al_hza

Sure enough two different forums and an Amazon review all mentioned the same bad smell. One person said it took 50 hours of burn in to go away. Another person said it took months!! The best sounding CD player I have ever had in my system (and the best I've heard in many systems that did not have an Esoteric or EMM Labs/Meitner) is leaving my house because... ...it smells bad. FFS, Denon!?!?!? What a travesty. How did these ever get past Quality Control to begin with. I am dismayed, disgusted and heart-broken. But, I'll get over it. There are other fish in the sea.

Larry Beck at Accessories4Less is your man. I just hope he doesn't get his lunch eaten daily because Denon and United Radio can't fix this issue.

[Lawrence001]

If it goes away after burn in why not just keep it esp if the dealer has been so helpful?

[WOStantonCS100]

If it goes away after burn in why not just keep it esp if the dealer has been so helpful?

Fair question, deserving an answer:

The problem is...no one seems to know how long that (burn in) will take. When I say it smells, what I mean is that it will stink up several rooms in the house when left on; can't enjoy the listening session. People sensitive to smells or with allergies are probably not going to be able to tolerate that (I'm one of those people). When I sent the first unit back, they said it was the entire drive mechanism! They replaced it but the smell didn't go away; so, my trust is completely shaken with these units. I'm not keen on having a $1K "time bomb" as a main source in my system. It makes much more sense to me to put the funds towards an awesome DAC that I can use with proven reliable/long lasting CD players and/or transports...............that do not and never have smelled like burning insulation (which is every other electronic audio component I've ever had, including DIY tube stuff).

[struth]

sounds like a bad batch of players going about. maybe being resold etc at cheaper price but still smelling

[Macca]

so weird. Like you say though not something you should have to endure.

[WOStantonCS100]

sounds like a bad batch of players going about. maybe being resold etc at cheaper price but still smelling

Surely you must be correct about that... but where are the good ones? If I am to be cheeky I would ask, "On a barge out on the ocean?" :lol: Gotta laugh...

[WOStantonCS100]

First let me say again, Larry Beck at Accessories4Less is a jewel to work with. Satisfactory conclusion with great customer service.

Second, for those who have this unit (without the smell), you've done well for yourself. In my opinion, it is a unit that leaves many players in the dust sonically. I'm thinking you have to spend a poop ton more or go with transport and DAC to better it. For a standalone player it ticked all my boxes.

Maybe the moral of the story is do not buy b-stock but that seems a harsh judgement. As mentioned, surely this is just part of bad batch that is going around. Either way, Denon has chosen not to do the right thing and take this machines out of the lines completely. Furthermore, at some point these were first purchase A-stock, right? The only way I would try again with this unit would be if I could try before buying and/or in the flesh...smell it first.

In the meantime, I have moved on (or returned to form). My older spinners (some of which I've never had hooked up to my SP17 before) are doing well. Some of them actually sound far better than I remember considering the change in amplification. "Everything matters." Isn't that what they say...

Cheers!

[Hypnotist]

Having read the full post count I bet your gutted and back to square one, and as you said were not talking about a unit that costs $100 with little or no QC:scratch:

[Pharos]

In my years of audio/Hi-Fi experience, as well as years in electronics, obvious smells are usually due to underrated design aspects, often power supplies which have been inadequately spec'ed.

The smell is often localised to a particular area of the circuits, or a part of a board, and this makes the problem readily identifiable.

I used to repair stuff for the Sound Organisation, and often found under spec'ed resistors in circuits which needed upgrading.

With a military spec background I am used to things being over-rated and bullet proof.

[WOStantonCS100]

Having read the full post count I bet your gutted and back to square one, and as you said were not talking about a unit that costs $100 with little or no QC:scratch:

Indeed.

I see the DCD-800NE looks to be discontinued and the DCD-900NE is "coming soon". I am torn with trying again but buying a "new" 1600NE or waiting for the 900NE. Usually, once I decide I'm done...I'm done. I am having a hard time walking away from a one box solution that sounded that good.

On the other hand, remarkably, I recently set up a "test" system comprising a Linux PC running HDMI out to an A/V HT receiver playing needledropped 24/192 WAV's burned to DVD's... ...and I don't hate it. The easily replaceable optical drive is a big plus. Do I really want to chase that rabbit again?


In my years of audio/Hi-Fi experience, as well as years in electronics, obvious smells are usually due to underrated design aspects, often power supplies which have been inadequately spec'ed.

The smell is often localised to a particular area of the circuits, or a part of a board, and this makes the problem readily identifiable.

I used to repair stuff for the Sound Organisation, and often found under spec'ed resistors in circuits which needed upgrading.

With a military spec background I am used to things being over-rated and bullet proof.

Here, here. I have always been a fan of over-built and over-spec'ed monsters in the consumer audio world. Are there any such beasts these days? The only ones I know of have astronomical price tags...not even very expensive...just plain astronomical.