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sixb
22-08-2010, 20:48
Hello,

This is my first post and I'd like to say this is a great forum that I've learned a lot from. Thanks for the resource.

So onto my question-

I have a Technics 1200MK2 purchased from KAB with the tonearm rewire and have been pleased as punch with it's performance. That said, I hated the sound mated with my Bellari VP129 and AT440a and Shure M97xE. I find it a bit muddy coming out of my Jolida 102b integrated amp and Tekton build Fostex 127e speakers and sub. So I picked up a Clear Audio Nano phono stage and things have changed. The Shure M97 now sounds darn good so I think I'm barking up the right tree.

Here's the thing- I have a new Denon 103 I want to try with the Nano and was hoping to get some head-shell recommendations for use with the stock arm. I do have audio-Technica AT-LH18/OCC but it seems that thing is too dang heavy. Let me know what you all think and I thank you in advance for your advise.
Best,

Marco
22-08-2010, 21:36
Hi Chris,

Welcome to AOS! :)

Before we get to that, could you please pop into the Welcome area and introduce yourself to our community by supplying your basic geographical location, system details and music tastes, as this is a requirement for all new members joining AOS.

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

sixb
22-08-2010, 21:39
Done and thanks

jonners
23-08-2010, 08:08
Here's the thing- I have a new Denon 103 I want to try with the Nano and was hoping to get some head-shell recommendations for use with the stock arm. I do have audio-Technica AT-LH18/OCC but it seems that thing is too dang heavy. Let me know what you all think and I thank you in advance for your advise.
Best,
Chris M

Hi Chris, and welcome.
Presumably you can't balance the arm? Have you tried using the additional Technics counterweight? If it still doesn't balance the simple solution is to wrap some sticky-backed lead strip around the counterweight.

jandl100
23-08-2010, 10:35
If arm balancing is the problemo ... I have two solutions, in addition to John's.

1) the naff one .... blue-tac some 2p pieces to the back of the Techie c/w. You may :) but it works just fine!

2) get SpeedySteve to make you one of the appropriate size/weight. See the 'sticky' thread in the Analogue section here. :)

sixb
23-08-2010, 12:48
Thanks Guy's
So going with a less weighty headshell isn't the solution? Maybe a 12g

Oh I forgot to mention that I also had a 3mm spacer water-jet cut out of black plex to get my VTA sorted (if anyone wants my simple .eps file let me know, it fits perfect). So that's adding some weight for sure- maybe I'm beyond optimal headshell weight, I'm just not sure...

Thanks!

Gdg
23-08-2010, 13:38
Hi Chris,
look here, maybe it helps:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7086

jandl100
23-08-2010, 13:43
Thanks Guy's
So going with a less weighty headshell isn't the solution? Maybe a 12g



Nope - the 103 loves a massive headshell. Get a Sumiko headshell for it ... less than £30 on eBay. :)

.... then really worry about needing a heavier counterweight! :lol:

The Denon likes mass .... none of your namby-pamby skinny lightweight tonearm/headshell jobbies!

I'm sure the reason that some folks dislike the 103 is that they have not made it happy, and have stuck it in lightweight/rigid arms.

jonners
23-08-2010, 18:55
Nope - the 103 loves a massive headshell. Get a Sumiko headshell for it ... less than £30 on eBay. :)


The Sumiko is 12g, the AT LH-18 is 18g. I would think that the latter would be perfect.

sixb
24-08-2010, 00:53
Well, I have a AT LH-18 so I guess I'm in good shape. And hey, what is the deal with alignment on the AT LH-18 as it only has two positions? Which one should I use for the stock arm and Denon 103? Neither seems right to me.
Also, using the AT LH-18, that begs the question how big a weight should I have SpeedySteve make for me? the stock extra weight is not enough...

Sorry for all the questions- I'm just trying to get this turntable and stock arm to work to it's max with the Denon 103

thanks for all your help

sixb
24-08-2010, 04:02
Hi Chris,
look here, maybe it helps:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7086


Thanks for this! I thought I had read every post on this subject but it turns out I missed a great one.

Thanks again!

jonners
24-08-2010, 07:46
Well, I have a AT LH-18 so I guess I'm in good shape. And hey, what is the deal with alignment on the AT LH-18 as it only has two positions? Which one should I use for the stock arm and Denon 103? Neither seems right to me.
Also, using the AT LH-18, that begs the question how big a weight should I have SpeedySteve make for me? the stock extra weight is not enough...

Sorry for all the questions- I'm just trying to get this turntable and stock arm to work to it's max with the Denon 103

thanks for all your help

ccm

Chris -

The AT LH-18 has adjustment if you loosen the hex bolt on the side of the shell at the connector end. That will give you fore and aft, and azimuth adjustment.
Once you have the arm balanced by one method or other you can then of course weigh the total counterweight mass if you want to replace it with a SpeedySteve one.

sixb
26-08-2010, 02:17
Chris -

The AT LH-18 has adjustment if you loosen the hex bolt on the side of the shell at the connector end. That will give you fore and aft, and azimuth adjustment.
Once you have the arm balanced by one method or other you can then of course weigh the total counterweight mass if you want to replace it with a SpeedySteve one.

Thanks John!

Reid Malenfant
30-08-2010, 18:12
Nope - the 103 loves a massive headshell. Get a Sumiko headshell for it ... less than £30 on eBay. :)

.... then really worry about needing a heavier counterweight! :lol:

The Denon likes mass .... none of your namby-pamby skinny lightweight tonearm/headshell jobbies!

I'm sure the reason that some folks dislike the 103 is that they have not made it happy, and have stuck it in lightweight/rigid arms.
Thanks for that information Jerry :) I'll make mine happy when it gets here :eyebrows:

You are quite correct, the Sumiko headshells are £28.95 or there abouts with free postage.

I'm having a guess that speedy.steve might get an order or i might try casting my own lead counterweight ;) That's all well & good saying that but machining a hole through the middle will be problematic to say the least, have you ever tried drilling through lead :doh: :eyebrows:

Epicurus
13-09-2010, 09:35
Hello again to everyone.

No guys, unfortunately I have not yet ordered my Techie. I just moved into my new apartment, whose purchase has left me with rather limited financial resources for the time being. However, I am going to take advantage of the situation to learn as much as possible about getting the most out of the Techie.

Of course, it goes without saying that the Techie's modifications will be an ongoing project. After all, we all started out with our kit in its basic, stock form, haven't we?

So, I have settled on the basic, standard Technics SL-1200 Mk2 - not the Mk5, as I don't need its "upgrades" (and it doesn't have a better tonearm cable; this is a privilege of the M5G, which I am told by the Greek dealership is no longer available). I will accompany it with a Denon DL-103 MC cartridge and Musical Fidelity's V-LPS phono preamp, which will go before my trusty Audio Analogue Primo Settanta amp.

And here's where I'll need some help:

You guys (especially Marco) have all pointed out that the DL-103 absolutely loves mass, be it in the form of a heavy headshell (which you have indicated to be the preferable option) and/or an auxiliary headshell weight. You have also indicated that a 18g headshell or headshell/aux. weight combination is what will help the cartridge give its best. Here's the catch, though. I will most likely need to install Technics' own auxiliary counterweight on the tonearm. We all know that the stock counterweight is calibrated for accurate balancing (not to mention that it helps with setting the anti-skating force accordingly). Will the stock counterweight, along with the auxiliary one, be up to the job of balancing the DL-103/stock headshell/aux. headshell weight combo (or the DL-103/heavy headshell combo) or will I have to reconsider my cartridge options?

Thank you.

P.S. Also, I owe you a few photos of my system in its current form.

Jason P
13-09-2010, 12:06
My experience with the 103 was using a Sumiko headshell. Without a thicker mat the 103 can't be adjusted to a low enough position with regard to arm height/VTA, so many use a spacer which, in addition to spacing adds mass. I used the Isokinetik one that has threaded holes (made alignment and fitting a whole lot easier). Whether or not the stock counterweight plus additional weight is enough I couldn't say - I have one of the older brass couterweights that Thrunobulaxx made, though these are no longer available and Speedy Steve seems to have taken on that mantle!

I think you'll have to probably go down the route of a more hefty counterweight, but it's a guess. I'd also invest in a decent scale (even the Ortofon balance one is fairly accurate) for measuring tracking weight - I wouldn't trust the calibration on the tonearm without double-checking first, especially if you're adding mass at the headshell.

HTH

Jason

sixb
25-09-2010, 17:34
I finally got around to making a heavier aux weight and getting the 103 mounted in the AT-LH18/OCC and on the Technics 1200. I had been happy with the way everything was sounding prior, but good god does it sound amazing now. First record was Dave B's "Take Five" - it had so much depth and dimension that my brain had a hard time processing that it was coming from a record. True sounding instruments and room space I'd never heard before. Then onto "Still crazy after all these years" - with the new setup, heaps of detail with bass that was just astounding- the drums were so filled out with the vocal true and lush, just fantastic. Then finally Isao Tomita's "Snowflakes". Amazing! Again, the stage was so big that even my dog was looking at sounds in different parts of the room. This has been by far the largest improvement I've ever made to my Turntable setup. Far far far beyond my expectations.

Thanks to everyone for your help!

ccm

Epicurus
26-09-2010, 11:37
Once again I'm up with a question...

Let's consider a Techie SL-1200 Mk2 with the stock arm, stock headshell and the auxiliary counterweight. What can someone do to optimize the mass on the headshell to get better results with the Denon DL-103 (until a heavier headshell or even an entirely different arm is purchased)?

Reid Malenfant
26-09-2010, 13:14
May sound mad & it won't look pretty but you could blu tack coins to the headshell :doh:

1p = 3.5g & 2p = 7g

:eyebrows:

sixb
26-09-2010, 15:06
May sound mad & it won't look pretty but you could blu tack coins to the headshell :doh:

1p = 3.5g & 2p = 7g

:eyebrows:

And also fatten up the auxiliary. It won't look pretty is right, but I guess in theory it would work. That said, the mass of my headshell with spacer, wires, cart etc is coming in at around 32g -so that amounts to a whole lot of extra weight on the stock headshell and auxiliary weight.

Reid Malenfant
26-09-2010, 16:06
It'd probably do the job on a temporary basis :eyebrows:

Like Jason i have an Isokinetic (spacer) modified DL 103 & Sumiko headshell which will be put into use asap ;)

Then i'll find out if i need a heavier counterweight :doh: