View Full Version : Sorbothane under speakers
loheswaran
09-01-2022, 11:16
I found some deflex panels at home which I am now never gonna use for speakers coz my last speaker build was rubbish.
That said can I cut these up and use them instead of spikes under speakers?
They are made of sorbothane and I hate wasting things
vinylmagic
09-01-2022, 11:34
Just a little hi-jack here but on the same discussion
I have some low height heavy plate metal stands sandwiching a 125mm tube. These are placed directly on carpeted wooden floor, so I bought some sorbothane feet and placed then mon the top plate to separate the speakers from the stands
IMO they made the speakers sound boomy and lost a lot of the soundstage. Removed them and put them.under my TT, which did improve the bass
Stewart
walpurgis
09-01-2022, 11:53
You can stand larger conventional Hi-Fi speakers on soft or hard materials but neither will isolate/decouple within the low regions of the audio band. The weight of the speaker works against you. Use whatever 'rubbery' pad materials you like, but generally the end result will be the same, your speakers will still couple with what is beneath them at bass frequencies. You may get some discernible isolation effect with small stand mount boxes, due to the lower weight. You'd need to do a frequency sweep to find out what though.
vinylmagic
09-01-2022, 12:30
@walpurgis
Exactly what I thought, heavy weight items can't be de-coupled using flexible materials.
I drilled out some ply and put spikes through and placed them under the stands can't say u hear any difference than having the plates directly on the floor tbh
Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
@walpurgis
Exactly what I thought, heavy weight items can't be de-coupled using flexible materials.
Sorry, but I would disagree with this.
Heavy items such as speakers can be acoustically isolated by flexible materials providing those flexible materials are working in their optimum range. Too hard and they are not compressed at all and are ineffective. Too soft and they will be squashed 'flat' and will be ineffective.
Here is a product made by the manufacturers of SVS subs which can support and work with heavy subwoofers. Each foot is optimised to work with weights of 35-40lbs. You just need to select the right feet to work with your speaker weight. You wouldn't put a set of springs designed for a Fiat 500 on a lorry. This is where DIY becomes problematical.
https://petertyson.co.uk/svs-soundpath-isolation-feet-4-pack
Sorry, but I would disagree with this.
Heavy items such as speakers can be acoustically isolated by flexible materials providing those flexible materials are working in their optimum range. Too hard and they are not compressed at all and are ineffective. Too soft and they will be squashed 'flat' and will be ineffective.
Here is a product made by the manufacturers of SVS subs which can support and work with heavy subwoofers. Each foot is optimised to work with weights of 35-40lbs. You just need to select the right feet to work with your speaker weight. You wouldn't put a set of springs designed for a Fiat 500 on a lorry. This is where DIY becomes problematical.
https://petertyson.co.uk/svs-soundpath-isolation-feet-4-pack
Bit of an update. SVS conform their product is made from silicone rubber.
Here is a scientific summary of its properties
"The loss modulus (tan δ)* of silicone rubber is generally low, making it ill-suited for use as a vibration insulator."
So it looks like Sorbothane wins the acoustic isolation race, but its less good at supporting weight than rubbers. May be a case of having to use more feet on heavy speakers.
I suppose that's why Max Townshend RIP used a damped spring in his isolation bases.
I suppose that's why Max Townshend RIP used a damped spring in his isolation bases.
Good point. As the Beatles song goes "meeting a man from the motor trade"
Interestingly some cars also used visco-elastic suspension. I think for a few years it was used on the original mini in the 60's, but it didn't catch on.
After more than enough investigation, I have ordered 2 sets of 4 of these sorbothane feet. At 70 Duro 'hardness' they will take the weight.
Total cost is less than £70. Not very pretty, but who can see them under the floor standers?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333145988655?hash=item4d910c5e2f:g:YxMAAOSwo4pYJIk L
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/i1sAAOSw44BYJIiy/s-l1600.jpg
After more than enough investigation, I have ordered 2 sets of 4 of these sorbothane feet. At 70 Duro 'hardness' they will take the weight.
Total cost is less than £70. Not very pretty, but who can see them under the floor standers?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333145988655?hash=item4d910c5e2f:g:YxMAAOSwo4pYJIk L
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/i1sAAOSw44BYJIiy/s-l1600.jpg
the price is reasonable, be interested to know if they do the job.
Lawrence001
16-01-2022, 09:30
I tried sorbothane hemispheres under floorstanders a few years ago, they wobbled something chronic [emoji23]
walpurgis
16-01-2022, 09:45
Speakers can be isolated/decoupled but the point that seems to be missed is that with heavy speakers this decoupling will occur below bass frequencies and not in the audio band. Isolation at say 2 or 3 Hz will be of little value.
walpurgis
16-01-2022, 09:51
I tried sorbothane hemispheres under floorstanders a few years ago, they wobbled something chronic [emoji23]
And that points to another issue. The pistonic movement of substantial drivers may induce a small amount of fore and aft rocking in speakers standing on 'squishy' pads. This will do nothing favourable for the sound.
Lawrence001
16-01-2022, 10:20
And that points to another issue. The pistonic movement of substantial drivers may induce a small amount of fore and aft rocking in speakers standing on 'squishy' pads. This will do nothing favourable for the sound.Yep that was my conclusion.
Yep that was my conclusion.
I guess there are at least 2 things in play that influence the consequences of speaker isolation
Firstly the introduction of the classic image blurring, likened to camera shake, that might occur due to posttonic action, particularly of the big bass driver. I personally think this is over played. If it were of concern then no concentric drivers or whizzer coned drivers would be immune.
Secondly the reduction of the transmission of speaker vibrations to the room (floor, walls, ceiling etc) that then re emit the vibrations. I have a feeling that for many people this will prove more destructive than 'camera shake'
Just my two penny worth.
"I have a feeling that for many people this will prove more destructive than 'camera shake'
Yes indeed. Newton's 3rd law states that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Take a driver with a cone mass of 30gms and the complete speaker weighs 30Kgms, the difference is 1000 times, resulting in a loss of intensity of the music which = 0.01dB. I see that as a non-issue.
walpurgis
16-01-2022, 19:30
Add resistance of air to the equation. It takes force to move a cone through its excursions.
"I have a feeling that for many people this will prove more destructive than 'camera shake'
Yes indeed. Newton's 3rd law states that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Take a driver with a cone mass of 30gms and the complete speaker weighs 30Kgms, the difference is 1000 times, resulting in a loss of intensity of the music which = 0.01dB. I see that as a non-issue.
precisely !
WOW
Its so rare to find a modification that far exceeds expectations :)
I put 6 of the beasts under each speaker. Its a bit unnerving as the speakers rock about if you push them but they are quite safe.
Its mainly the lower frequencies that find their way into the structure of your room so for best evaluation I disconnected all except the 15" drivers which I ran full range - They are VOTT Altec 416B vintage Alnico drivers so still do very well when played alone, although I confess to being just a bit underwhelmed with them in open baffles when low passed and where low frequencies are rolled off and a little confused.
My room has a chipboard floor suspended over 4" thermal Celotex and the walls are essentially plasterboard on timber frame, so potentially quite resonant.
Initially, I played a track from a dubbed version of Dark Side of the Moon with plenty of intricate bass lines. I played it 6 times to build up a strong sound memory and it played exactly as it always does and in a way that I have always thought to be excellent but ultimately lacking in low punch which is an attribute of open baffles.
Rapidly I put the sorbothane feet under the speakers, 4 at the front where most of the weight is and 2 at the back. After a few minutes and a couple of flattened fingers I sat back to listen. Everything else was left untouched.
Bloody hell, what a moron. I had put on a different track thinking that's buggered up this precise experiment!
But no, it was the same track and improvements were so profound that it was not immediately recognised. There was lower bass, more stop start to bass notes, better separation of bass lines, better tone, more foot tapping, and vastly improved focus. In a few words the Altec VOTT drivers came alive. What more can I say. This is the best bang for bucks I have had in the last 10 years - total cost less than £100.
Two thing's to note.
1. Your room may behave differently to mine
2. You must get the right 'stiffness' of sorbothane so that it is squashed into its best working range
30024
again this is very close to my experience ..i thought I'd played a different track too
Thanks Pete
Out of interests I have tried other means of isolating my speakers, but none with any success.
1. Hockey pucks
2. PTFE feet
3. Rubber mats
4. Oak cones
again this is very close to my experience ..i thought I'd played a different track too
Out of interest Pete, what is the structure of you room floor and walls?
concrete floor ...standard plaster board type walls.
my journey includes-
spikes- never happy with the sound even when proposed in the late 70's, tried wide ones, small ones, long ones, brass, aluminum, steel etc
hard wooden door knobs threaded for spike holes- instantly better than spikes
folded carpet - interesting but not right
rubber door stops - no horrid
sorbothane - ok but not right !
bike inner tubes partly inflated- good but too unstable ..with cats
dense foam packing- interesting getting somewhere
Auralex mopads - rather good for a low cost solution now used routinely under computer speakers
isoacoustic stands- excellent best solution to that point
townshend seismic bars- so far out in front of the rest its ridiculous
AV room services EVP - these get to 80% of the seismic bars at a fraction of the cost [https://avroomservice.com/store-evp/]
that journey started in the late 70's and I tried the evp's in 2019.. the seismic bars have been in place for about four years and have transformed the imaging and presentation to a true three dimensional sound image.
Speakers mainly involved from the "door knobs" forward, are a pair of Martin Logan Aerius i's
sorbothane - ok but not right !
Interesting that you should give a qualified response to sorbothane. Can you say why this is and in what ways do the Townsend Seismic bars improve on it.
Thanks for summarising all you experiments :)
yes it was better than the prvious iterations ...but I had a nagging feeling it wasn't the end of my journey ....unlike the evp's or siesmic bars
AJSki2fly
25-01-2022, 14:04
sorbothane - ok but not right !
Interesting that you should give a qualified response to sorbothane. Can you say why this is and in what ways do the Townsend Seismic bars improve on it.
Thanks for summarising all you experiments :)
I and a friend have gone through a similar journey with speaker isolation, he has ended up using Townshend Seismic bars with his Tannoy Legacy Kensington's, prior to that he had them on 40mm oak platforms(sitting directly on the carpet over a suspended wooden flow) with rubber blocks under the speaker feet. My speakers sit on 40mm oak, with spike and the oak sits on top of 4 Hudson silicone/sorbothane feet onto a marque floor onto concrete.
So having heard my friends before the Townshend and after I would say the improvement with them is better isolation and improved detail and definition in the soundstage, bass is more controlled. The difference between his and my system is not that great with respect to what I have described, apart from some tonal differences. I presume I get away with it because of a solid floor.
Hope that helps.
A solid floor solves a lot of these problems from the get-go. It was an absolute deal-breaker for me when I was buying a house.
nope ......! I've always had a solid floor. As Ive said the spiked speakers sound and the sound with the seismic bars you would not believe it was from the same speaker.
A solid floor solves a lot of these problems from the get-go. It was an absolute deal-breaker for me when I was buying a house.
I didn't give it a thought when I bought my house. It has a solid floor with floorboards on top, with a gap between them of a couple of inches. Probably a worse case combination, but it did mean when I had a dedicated ring main installed for the audio, I could also run the audio cables under the floor. My speakers are 6m from the audio sources, preamps etc. I dislike seeing cables snaking around the room.
Regarding speaker isolation, I have never been disappointed with the soundstage my speakers create: the soundstage width extends beyond the outer dimensions of the speakers with excellent depth. I'm not a bass freak and have to have the volume turned up to very loud levels before I can feel the vibrations through the floor.
nope ......! I've always had a solid floor. As Ive said the spiked speakers sound and the sound with the seismic bars you would not believe it was from the same speaker.
If the bars place the speakers at a different height from the spikes that alone will make a significant change. Firstly your listening on a different axis and secondly your altering the distance of the speaker from a room boundary (the floor) which will change the low frequency response.
That's before you get onto whatever effect the isolation provided by the spring system is doing. So yes it's going to sound quite different with bars instead of spikes.
Spikes are the worst option with a solid floor - IMO - I never use them.
My current speakers have rubber feet that have the thread for the spikes inside them. So they just sit on those feet, on the carpet. Maybe I would prefer the presentation with the Townsend bars but the price puts me off trying them, plus I don't have a problem to fix so not really got any incentive to.
I didn't give it a thought when I bought my house. It has a solid floor with floorboards on top, with a gap between them of a couple of inches. Probably a worse case combination, but it did mean when I had a dedicated ring main installed for the audio, I could also run the audio cables under the floor. My speakers are 6m from the audio sources, preamps etc. I dislike seeing cables snaking around the room.
Regarding speaker isolation, I have never been disappointed with the soundstage my speakers create: the soundstage width extends beyond the outer dimensions of the speakers with excellent depth. I'm not a bass freak and have to have the volume turned up to very loud levels before I can feel the vibrations through the floor.
The QUAD ESL being well known for it's difficult-to-tame deep bass response of course ;)
I rented 8 places before I bought this one. Old, modern, big rooms, small rooms, solid floors, suspended floors, and ran systems in all of them. My takeaway from that experience was old is better than modern, big is better than small and solid is better than suspended.
Was looking for two years before finding one that ticked all those boxes and that I could actually afford.
The QUAD ESL being well known for its difficult-to-tame deep bass response of course ;)
I rented 8 places before I bought this one. Old, modern, big rooms, small rooms, solid floors, suspended floors, and ran systems in all of them. My takeaway from that experience was old is better than modern, big is better than small and solid is better than suspended.
Was looking for two years before finding one that ticked all those boxes and that I could actually afford.
(Your room displays a distinct echo ! :D)
The Quad 57s have no deep bass: they roll off at 45Hz, at a rate asymptotic to 18dB/octave. As I said, I'm not a bass freak, if I were I wouldn't be using Quad 57s. To feel vibrations through the floor my system has to be running at 90dBA, measured at my listening distance of 4.2m and at ear level (0.75m), and that is so loud to be uncomfortable.
I would agree with your comments; old is quite likely to be better, as older properties were better built: solid brick internal walls, with the timbers and floorboards of larger size. Old properties often had larger sized rooms, compared to modern properties (in 1950 building 12 houses to the acre was the norm, whereas between 1960 to 1980 it crept up to 10 - 12 per acre. Now (2019) it 12 to 20 dwellings per acre).
loheswaran
27-01-2022, 23:25
Has anyone here made diy contrained layer platoforms from aluminium plate and resonant damping sheets?
loheswaran
27-01-2022, 23:28
I do not have a lot of space to work in - hence seismic bars are a non starter. I am considering old style rubber tube platforms placed inside a box to tidy the appearance
Have been doing quite a lot of reading on this topic.
This is the most meaningful graph. It shows the frequencies above which sorbothane is effective vs the frequencies above which Townsend isolators are effective.
The bump on each profile is the resonant frequency if the device. The device is progressively totally ineffective below this and progressively effective above it.
It shows why sorbothane is good, but why Townsend acoustic isolators are much better (but more expensive!)
http://www.townshendaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Transmissibility-graph-vibration-isolation-seismic-hi-fi-townshend-audio.jpg
If that graph is to be believed, it shows the uselessness of spikes/cones when it comes to isolation - something I have known for ages: not from experience but from a basic knowledge of mechanics.
walpurgis
30-01-2022, 08:37
It doesn't take much to figure out that cones, spikes or any other kind of hard contact won't isolate anything. They will do the opposite and rigidly couple whatever is stood on them/it to whatever is beneath.
Anything you do to the speaker and it's postion is going to change the sound.
You put spikes under a speaker that was previously sat flat on the stand, you raise its height relative to your ears - sound changes.
You also reduce the amount of cabinet surface in contact with the surface of the stand - sound changes.
Nothing to do with isolation.
Yep, a transmissibility figure of 1 means no effect whatsoever. In this experiment spikes show no effect on low frequencies until about 400Hz when there is a bit of a squiggle. :)
like wise .......Barry !
from almost the first year of trying spike. I became more and more convinced of there failings, and that was in the late 70's.
"Anything you do to the speaker and it's postion is going to change the sound" ... Yes I agree.
"raise its height relative to your ears - sound changes" ... of course it does but the small amount of increased height is not going to produce the type of change you will get from something like a properly engineered spring-based isolation product.
When my wife and I visited the Xfi Premium Show in Holland, Oct 2019 I made a point of visiting Max Townshend's room, where he had 2 pairs of identical speakers hooked up to the same amplifier. His speaker supports are specifically designed to not increase the height by much, however, the pair resting on their own feet had been adjusted to be at the exact same height.
The room was busy and we had to accept seats near the back of a large room and off to the side. I thought the sound was great and wondered how it could improve much. The switch over happened after just a few minutes and my wife and I looked at each other in dismay. We had unknowingly entered the room when the speakers on the podiums were playing. The soundstage collapsed and the music lost its allure. We heard the switchover a number of times. An unmistakable and desirable improvement.
Without a doubt, in a noisy crowded room, this wrought a significant change beyond anything a small increase in height may or may not cause.
I didn't understand the graph re spikes, there being no black area.
Spikes are used in running shoes to couple, and nails couple pieces of wood, but spikes will reduce speaker rocking.
why do so many manufacturers of expensive loudspeakers include spikes?
I didn't understand the graph re spikes, there being no black area.
The shaded area is to show the lack of transmission above the cut-off frequency (i.e. above the resonance) for each of the dampening mechanisms. Since spikes (the black trace) provide no useful isolation, there is no black area.
Spikes are used in running shoes to couple, and nails couple pieces of wood, but spikes will reduce speaker rocking.
Do the sums, taking into account the mass of the driver cone (or diaphragm) compared to that of the speaker cabinet.
why do so many manufacturers of expensive loudspeakers include spikes?
Because it's a "fad", expected by customers and happily provided by the manufacturers. Another speaker 'fad' is the ability to bi- (tri-) wire: provides endless fun in trying out different cables, but IMO makes only a very small difference.
"Anything you do to the speaker and it's postion is going to change the sound" ... Yes I agree.
"raise its height relative to your ears - sound changes" ... of course it does but the small amount of increased height is not going to produce the type of change you will get from something like a properly engineered spring-based isolation product.
.
It will depend on the design of the speaker, how much the height changes and on what axis the new alignment is. Changing speaker height will always be a noticeable difference unless the speaker has very good vertical dispersion, which most don't especially two-ways.
However having taken a closer look at the bars it seems they support the speaker very close to the floor, so I agree that the height difference compared to using spikes or feet would be inconsequential.
My summary so far
Sorbothane feet make a massive improvement to sound quality and if you use the right number and 'hardness' then they are excellent value. After that you enter the realms of diminishing returns, and this is where I am at.
I have ordered a pair Townsend Podiums, size 4 with D cells, and await delivery - we shall see :)
The shaded area is to show the lack of transmission above the cut-off frequency (i.e. above the resonance) for each of the dampening mechanisms. Since spikes (the black trace) provide no useful isolation, there is no black area.
Do the sums, taking into account the mass of the driver cone (or diaphragm) compared to that of the speaker cabinet.
Because it's a "fad", expected by customers and happily provided by the manufacturers. Another speaker 'fad' is the ability to bi- (tri-) wire: provides endless fun in trying out different cables, but IMO makes only a very small difference.
You seem to imply ignorance on my part, which feels patronising; if you see ignorance please enlighten me, most of what I stated was rhetorically expressing disbelief. There is no need to do the sums to quantify, since a qualitative analysis provides the understanding.
having run a number of tests [...in the dim and distant...] .regarding spikes, cones, cubes of various materials using an impulse display and a steel ball bearing dropped from a set height. The traces for with and without spikes were almost identical, comparing that with those for rubber feet and sorbothane the attenuation was clear on the display.
The graph shows the effect of the spikes in black this is visible if you look carefully ! it is rather small though.
Mikeandvan
01-02-2022, 17:27
You might aswell put your speakers on a pile of gravel for all the difference it makes.
fatmarley
01-02-2022, 18:46
Memory foam would be worth a try.
You seem to imply ignorance on my part, which feels patronising; if you see ignorance please enlighten me, most of what I stated was rhetorically expressing disbelief. There is no need to do the sums to quantify, since a qualitative analysis provides the understanding.
The first statement expressed your misunderstanding, the third clause of the second statement is incorrect, and the third, if intended to be an example of rhetorical anacoenosis, calls for a reply.
The first statement expressed that there was a lack or information regarding the use of black; no black area.
It is well established that spikes prevent or reduce rocking, and it is easy to see why.
There was nothing rhetorical about the third statement, it was a direct question.
Mikeandvan
01-02-2022, 22:37
This place is getting like am episode of Countdown.
The first statement expressed that there was a lack or information regarding the use of black; no black area.
It is well established that spikes prevent or reduce rocking, and it is easy to see why.
There was nothing rhetorical about the third statement, it was a direct question.
Your first statement stated you did not understand the graphic. There was no black area because spikes do not allow transmission to vibration with a factor of less than 1, due to there being a lack of any damping mechanism.
Spikes do not prevent rocking - they help it by acting as pivot points. It is the mass of the speaker that minimises the rocking recoil; as explained in sailor's post.
If there was nothing rhetorical about your post, why did you describe it as such? And I did offer an answer to your question posed in your third statement.
This place is getting like am episode of Countdown.
let me know when Rachel Riley gets here.
The graphic lacked a clear explanation for those unfamiliar with it because of the absence of black on the graph, and for many this would result in them not bothering with it. It is polite to make an informtion very clear to the uninitiated especially in an age of poor and inaccurate communication.
I strongly disagree about spike functioning; they tend to embed themselves and make a very rigid mounting into a floor, and unless the floor is unstable I fail to see how rocking could occur with the use of spikes. In contrast, a speaker on a carpet may well rock even if heavy, and I have experienced this many times
I said; "most of what I stated was rhetorically expressing disbelief", but not all; how do you interpret this as "nothing" rhetorical?
I am also unwilling to take orders or instructions from you about maths, and I think you are trolling.
Not sure about this rocking business.
If the speaker isn't supported properly I suppose it will sway a bit if you push against it but no-one does that in normal use. It's like this thing with 'ringing' platters on turntables, 'If I flick the platter it rings.' Yeah, well, so what? Is a record flicking the platter as it spins round? No, so it's absolutely bloody fine.
I don't know how flimsy a speaker would need to be for the motion of the drivers to cause it to sway but I've never personally owned a speaker that was so poorly built that could actually happen.
But I suppose these days there are many solutions for non-existent problems. God forbid we should just hook the speakers up, sit down and listen to some music instead of racking our brains for more things to tweak. (Not aiming that at those cursed with bouncy floors who of course do need to do something about that btw).
I agree Macca, but it must happen, the question is how significant it is, how many dB down it is.
I doubt that it has ever been audible even as a blurring of sound quality, but in principle I think it is valid.
There are numerous examples of advertisements stating a new found or newly addressed mechanism, which in principle is valid, but probably very insignificant, this particularly in the high end speaker ads.
An example of a true but insignificant mechanism; the speaker leads actually are alternately pushed apart and pulled together with the audio signal, and so theoretically are acting as a small bipole speaker. I wonder how many dB down that output likely to be.
An example of a true but insignificant mechanism; the speaker leads actually are alternately pushed apart and pulled together with the audio signal, and so theoretically are acting as a small bipole speaker. I wonder how many dB down that output likely to be.
You come up with a solution and I'll market it :)
The trouble is - with speakers anyway - is that a solution to a problem often creates other problems. Which need solutions, which create other problems...and so on.
Speakers are a bit like turntables really, it's amazing they are as good as they are.
My summary so far
Sorbothane feet make a massive improvement to sound quality and if you use the right number and 'hardness' then they are excellent value. After that you enter the realms of diminishing returns, and this is where I am at.
I have ordered a pair Townsend Podiums, size 4 with D cells, and await delivery - we shall see :)
My Podiums have arrived and are in place. It was difficult to get my speakers on them without the wife's help and adjusting the damping took some patience. It reminded me very much of adjusting and balancing the springs on a Linn Sondek for those that have done it. They now bounce and rock beautifully without noise or drama.
The improvements throughout the frequencies are not insignificant, particularly in the clarity of bass components, and separation of instruments etc. My system, despite being improved, sounds 'different' - perhaps a bit less engaging. Townsend say this is quite normal as the floor, ceiling and walls are no longer 'singing' along to the music, and I should rearrange my room treatments (absorbers and diffusers) to restore the balance I like.
I can confirm this lowering of room interactions. Before, if I pressed my ear against the dry panel walling of a partition in the room I could hear a muffled performance from within. That effect is dramatically reduced..
Hi Cris, congratulations on the Podiums. Would you care to elaborate on the differences between the podiums and the sorbothane you were using.
Hi Cris, congratulations on the Podiums. Would you care to elaborate on the differences between the podiums and the sorbothane you were using.
Hi Charles
I hate terms like 'removing a veil' 'best I have ever heard' etc, but I will try to explain the differences.
The use of the CORRECT sorbothane feet was a revelation in terms of clarity of presentation. The rock you get when pushing the speakers is very similar to the Podiums and most people would be happy to stop there.
The main difference between the two methods is that the sorbothane improves the speakers and the Podiums improve the speakers and the room, By this I mean that the sorbothane, because of its poorer isolation properties at the lower frequencies has very little effect on those frequencies that are transferred to the room structure.
Because of this quietening of the room with Podiums, the presentation is quite different, everything is projected from the speakers against a noiseless background. For me, in my room, which has taken over 18 months to get sounding right this is quite a profound effect requiring a period of re-adjustment. Its definitely better SQ, but the new presentation will take a few days to acclimatise to, then I will move around my room treatments such as absorbers and diffusers.
My summary is much as I posted earlier that, done properly, sorbothane feet get you most of the way there and you have to spend insane amounts of money to move on still further. For some of us, reaching out for the ultimate Hi Fi, that is a price worth paying. My perspective is that decoupling the room gives a more cost effective improvement on the whole system than spending that money on a single component.
Please feel free to ask any more questions :)
Interesting and useful information, thanks.
I may have to settle for sorbothane at this stage though because of the new DAC I've ordered. I was very tempted by the DAC you have but ultimately settled on the new Mojo Audio Mystique X which is still being built :rolleyes:
Interesting and useful information, thanks.
I may have to settle for sorbothane at this stage though because of the new DAC I've ordered. I was very tempted by the DAC you have but ultimately settled on the new Mojo Audio Mystique X which is still being built :rolleyes:
OK Charles. I don't know of that DAC, but reviews are good :)
I can't stress how important it is to get the right level of support with the sorbothane. If its too hard then it will not have entered into its optimum working range and if its too soft it will have passed through its optimum working range. I think I remember reading it should be be about 30% compressed so that 70% of its compression remains.
Good luck.
If you look at the You Tube vidoes of the Podiums, make a mental note of the amount they can sway and try to replicate that with the sorbothane. As my OBs are front loaded with weight I found 4 on the front and two on the back worked well.
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