Tone arm info for novice

[MisterMoseley]

With a degree of embarrassment I am posting this question and do hope my fellow AOS members will take pity on me with their replies!

Although I have owned a turntable for about 40 years, I still consider myself a novice when compared to others. I spent years using an entry level Sony direct drive, upgrading to a Project Debut Carbon with Ortofon Red about 6 years ago. I have never progressed beyond this.

Now that I am TT-less (my brother purchased mine yesterday!), I am considering what to do.

But whatever I do, I need to understand once and for all the reasons for upgrading a tone arm.

I realise that to anyone who has been around turntables for years, this might seem to be such a basic question that it doesn’t need asking.

But I simply don’t know the answer - I’ve found lots of info on-line about what functions a tone arms serves, instructions for replacement, what fits what, yet I’m still struggling to get my head around ‘why do it at all’?

Thanks in advance for any empathetic replies!

[Lurch]

In simple terms, a better tonearm lets more of the signal through so you can hear more of what's on the record. This is achieved through better quality wiring, more closely tolerance bearings, resonance absorption/dissipation via construction material specification. The better something is engineered then the more it costs and the better the results (in most cases).

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[walpurgis]

That's pretty open ended. You need to have a budget in mind, an idea of what level of performance you want, whether you want new or used and what level of complexity you'd be happy to deal with. An 'all-in-one' new deck might be what to aim for.......or not.

[MisterMoseley]

In simple terms, a better tonearm lets more of the signal through so you can hear more of what's on the record. This is achieved through better quality wiring, more closely tolerance bearings, resonance absorption/dissipation via construction material specification. The better something is engineered then the more it costs and the better the results (in most cases).

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Thanks.
Perhaps naively, I’d thought it was all about quality of stylus, quality of cartridge and internal wiring. Couldn’t get my head round what else the tone arm itself would influence.

[MisterMoseley]

Thanks.
Perhaps naively, I’d thought it was all about quality of stylus, quality of cartridge and internal wiring. Couldn’t get my head round what else the tone arm itself would influence.

Thanks.
I’ve posted on another forum about a potential replacement turntable and had some really useful replies - most of them suggesting older/used TTs. I guess that’s really where this question comes from. I don’t want to venture down the second hand route only to find out later on that the TT is OK but that I should have been looking for one with tonearm ‘xyz’
I realise that the most straightforward option for someone like me is to simply buy a good entry level TT from the likes of Rega or Project.

[Lurch]

The cart does have an effect, however a £40 AT95E on a good arm in most instances will sound way way better than a £500 mm on a shite low, end arm. The good arm will be maxing out the 95Es performance and letting it through to your ears (downstream kit permitting). The good arm will also allow downstream kit to perform at a higher level as its getting a better signal.

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[MisterMoseley]

The cart does have an effect, however a £40 AT95E on a good arm in most instances will sound way way better than a £500 mm on a shite low, end arm. The good arm will be maxing out the 95Es performance and letting it through to your ears (downstream kit permitting). The good arm will also allow downstream kit to perform at a higher level as its getting a better signal.

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Hi John
Thank you again.
It’s slowly starting to make sense now.
Stuart

[Lurch]

Thanks.
I’ve posted on another forum about a potential replacement turntable and had some really useful replies - most of them suggesting older/used TTs. I guess that’s really where this question comes from. I don’t want to venture down the second hand route only to find out later on that the TT is OK but that I should have been looking for one with tonearm ‘xyz’
I realise that the most straightforward option for someone like me is to simply buy a good entry level TT from the likes of Rega or Project.With regards used decks, both the Revolver and Systemdek are more than worthy.
The Revolver is a very good starter deck in the Rega 2 or 3 catagory (and better than your old Pro-Ject) and the arm is good for upto £300 MMs whilst the Systemdek is further up the food chain, the deck can easily support a £500+ arm (think Tabriz/OL Silver.
The One Bazzer has for sale at a very good price fitted with the RB250 would be capable of supporting top mm carts and MCs upto about £1k so could be bought with confidence knowing you could move up the cart ladder should you wish without needing to upgrade the arm or deck.

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[Lawrence001]

I think of it the following way - the source of the music is from the stylus bumping around in the groove inducing a tiny current in the coils in the cartridge. Tiny aberrations in the physical contact between the two will lead to audible effects when the signal is amplified downstream.

The key purpose of the tonearm is to make this contact between the two as perfect as possible (on the two contact points, one each for left and right channel) and all the complex engineering you see in more expensive tonearms is supposed to make this as good as possible.

The wiring that has been mentioned is the other part of the chain, but that can always be changed if required (eg silver litz might match the tonal quality of some cartridges better than say straight OFC copper).

There are other factors at play such as matching the arm to the turntable and cartridge (eg high Vs low compliance cartridges tend to work better with low and high mass arms - hope I've got that right!). So the best engineered arm is not always the best solution if you've already chosen a cartridge or TT. They are a complete system and should be chosen to match.

Then you've got the phono stage to think of (and head amp or step up transformers if it's a MC cartridge) but that's a whole other question...

[MisterMoseley]

With regards used decks, both the Revolver and Systemdek are more than worthy.
The Revolver is a very good starter deck in the Rega 2 or 3 catagory (and better than your old Pro-Ject) and the arm is good for upto £300 MMs whilst the Systemdek is further up the food chain, the deck can easily support a £500+ arm (think Tabriz/OL Silver.
The One Bazzer has for sale at a very good price fitted with the RB250 would be capable of supporting top mm carts and MCs upto about £1k so could be bought with confidence knowing you could move up the cart ladder should you wish without needing to upgrade the arm or deck.

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Hi John
Thank you for this. I will have a careful look at these.
By the way, due to ‘brain fade’, I’ve only just realised that we’ve both been posting on my thread on the Wam. Sorry I didn’t put two and two together before now.
I’ve just replied to Stewart about his Project TT which you kindly highlighted. As good as it is, it’s probably far more than I would ever need.
I realise that for the money I can justify spending, I’m either going to have to go for entry level new Project/Rega with peace of mind warranty or higher quality used TT without any support/guarantee if anything goes wrong.
Regards
Stuart

[MisterMoseley]

I think of it the following way - the source of the music is from the stylus bumping around in the groove inducing a tiny current in the coils in the cartridge. Tiny aberrations in the physical contact between the two will lead to audible effects when the signal is amplified downstream.

The key purpose of the tonearm is to make this contact between the two as perfect as possible (on the two contact points, one each for left and right channel) and all the complex engineering you see in more expensive tonearms is supposed to make this as good as possible.

The wiring that has been mentioned is the other part of the chain, but that can always be changed if required (eg silver litz might match the tonal quality of some cartridges better than say straight OFC copper).

There are other factors at play such as matching the arm to the turntable and cartridge (eg high Vs low compliance cartridges tend to work better with low and high mass arms - hope I've got that right!). So the best engineered arm is not always the best solution if you've already chosen a cartridge or TT. They are a complete system and should be chosen to match.

Then you've got the phono stage to think of (and head amp or step up transformers if it's a MC cartridge) but that's a whole other question...

Thank you Lawrence for explaining this so clearly.
I appreciate your help and I feel that I’m ending the day somewhat wiser than I was when it started.
Stuart

[Lurch]

Hi John
I realise that for the money I can justify spending, I’m either going to have to go for entry level new Project/Rega with peace of mind warranty or higher quality used TT without any support/guarantee if anything goes wrong.
Regards
Stuart

Seriously, with 50ish records I would grab the Revolver from Glenb, it's better than the deck you sold but not stupidly so.
As for warranty, why do you need one? there's nothing to go wrong as the deck is very basic, an annual bearing clean and re-oil (3 or 4 drops) and a new belt maybe every 5 years. For £100 its a stone cold bargain and will be all the tt you'll ever need.

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[MisterMoseley]

Seriously, with 50ish records I would grab the Revolver from Glenb, it's better than the deck you sold but not stupidly so.
As for warranty, why do you need one? there's nothing to go wrong as the deck is very basic, an annual bearing clean and re-oil (3 or 4 drops) and a new belt maybe every 5 years. For £100 its a stone cold bargain and will be all the tt you'll ever need.

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Thanks again John. I appreciate the advice.
Looks as though it’s been sold now.
What I’m realising, though, is that there are numerous used turntables from makers other than Rega, Project, etc, whose names I have never heard before (See Revolver, Systemdek).
The key is knowing what I’m buying and not delaying when I see something I like.
Also, I’m almost certainly ‘better off’ buying from here, the WAM or PFM, rather than running the gauntlet of other, well known sites.
Stuart

[guy]

I think "tone arm" is an apt name - different arms can sound very different, I was gobsmacked by the change in sound when I went from a Linn Basik+ to an Ittock many years ago.
I don't think it is entirely down to different wiring in arms."Rattles" in the bearings, resonances in the tube and head shell, effective mass, position of counter weight - so many different contributions from parts of the assembly.