Good quality upsampling DAC?

[Reid Malenfant]

Hi everyone, i'm on the lookout for a good quality upsampling DAC, 24/192 or 176.4 would be nice indeed but 24/96 88.2 would still possibly be interesting ;)

What i'm after is suggestions on what to look for, however there are a few things that it must have..

It must have AES/EBU balanced digital input ;)

It must have balanced audio outputs :)

I'm not too fussed about other multiple inputs (via toslink or S/PDIF) though most DACs will have.

Tbh the only things i have found so far are DCS stuff, & while this isn't out of the question i'd like to know of anything else that'll do the job :cool:

Over to you gentlemen & ladies & thanks in advance for any possiblities.

[Welder]

I assume you've looked at this, but just in case ;)
https://www.mhsecure.com/mhdirect/product.php?productid=49&cat=0&page=1

[purite audio]

I use the Amarra Model 4 ( OEM Metric Halo ULN8 ) it is a cracking dac and so much more besides!
Keith.

[REM]

There is the, whisper it, Musical Fidelity M1. Seems to have the required inputs/outputs, dunno where it sits in the perceived/actual quality stakes though.

Have heard it described as a V-DAC in a fancy box, is that a good or bad thing? Looks nice....

http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/M1-Series/M1DAC/M1DAC.asp.

[Nick]

You could have a look at the Esoteric range, they offer all that you have on your wish list.

[squeezethatbuffalo]

What is the target price range? Are DIY solutions acceptable?

The Weiss DAC202 sounds perfect for you. The Sabre9018 doesn't just upsample to mere kHzs, I heard it goes all the way into the MHz range!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2679/4244438032_5d64f4cce7_b.jpg

[Reid Malenfant]

Well thanks for the replies people :)

I'm just taking a look at the field so to speak & it looks like there are a few choices, far more than i imagined :clap:

I'll take a look at everything that has been mentioned & see if i can actually get a listen to any of this stuff anywhere. It'll probably mean travelling which might pose a few problems, but needs must.

I can't say money is no object, but i'd be willing to go to say £2000 :eek: Obviously it'd have to be a decent improvement over my present DAC or there is no point in spending a thing ;)

Alex, when you say is DIY ok the answer is definately yes :) Are you attempting to tell me the pictured DAC is available as a kit? If so i'm possibly very interested, more so as it appears it might lock the DAC to my transport using the BNC input. The only difficulty i can see is that the timesync output on my Krell DT10 is an AT&T fibre optic output :lol:

Must be a way to midify this though ;)

[squeezethatbuffalo]

Hi Mark,

Unfortunately not, it's a $6400+ commercial DAC. :lol:

I'm not sure if "syncing" the DAC to the transport would help, since the Sabre chip operates in async mode. Maybe it's Weiss specific feature that has nothing to do with the Sabre. :scratch:

The best DIY solution (IMO) would be Twisted Pear's Buffalo II DAC. I own the older Buffalo I model, and it still sounds stunningly good to my ears. I can only imagine what a Buffalo II with a proper I/V stage and a full set of Paul Hynes supplies would sound like. Perhaps Leo can enlighten us ;)

My only issue with the Buffalo II is the long lead time. I placed a (pre)order on July, and I'd be lucky if it arrives in early September!

Oh, and if you ever decide to go with the 'fflo, remember to pick up the "S/PDIF 4:1 MUX/Receiver Module" from TPA. The module "provides a four transformer-coupled S/PDIF inputs (one of which optionally supports balanced AES), a transformer-coupled S/PDIF output, and an I2S output". The Buffalo does not support AES input natively.

Cheers,

[Reid Malenfant]

Hi Mark,

Unfortunately not, it's a $6400+ commercial DAC. :lol:

I'm not sure if "syncing" the DAC to the transport would help, since the Sabre chip operates in async mode. Maybe it's Weiss specific feature that has nothing to do with the Sabre. :scratch:
:eyebrows: Well you might as well let me know what this $6400 DAC is, i might see one secondhand at the right price :)

The asynchronous stuff is beginning to sound suspiciously like something Levinson built into the 360 & 360S, they use a FIFO (First In First Out) circuit that is run by a super accurate clock. This retimes everything to the accuracy of that clock & sends the digital data out with the correct spacing thus reducing jitter. In fact that's also to an extent what this Monarchy Audio DIP24/96 does which might explain how come i'm so enamoured of it :lol:

Cheers for the reply ;)

[Welder]

I believe he may be talking about the current offering from Weiss 202.
http://www.weiss-highend.ch/products.html

If you even consider this you may want to consider this before you part with your cash.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/wyred4/dac_5.html

[squeezethatbuffalo]

Hi Mark, I did mention the name in my first reply, it's the Weiss DAC202 ;)

I heard that the Sabre uses a new approach, but I'm not sure about the specifics (no datasheet unless you sign an NDA... don't you love that).

I'll be comparing my Buffalo II to big name "Hi-End" DACs once it's built. If you're not in a hurry, you may want to wait for my report!

Edit: Hi John, unfortunately the comparison was between the W4S DAC2 and the older Weiss Minerva. I'd love to see how the W4S measures up to the newer DAC202, as both are based on the same chip.

[Reid Malenfant]

I'll be comparing my Buffalo II to big name "Hi-End" DACs once it's built. If you're not in a hurry, you may want to wait for my report!
Haste makes waste :eyebrows: I'm in no real rush as i'm enjoying what i have here ;)

Cheers Alex, & John for pointing the same thing out ;)

[Ali Tait]

Hi Mark,

Unfortunately not, it's a $6400+ commercial DAC. :lol:

I'm not sure if "syncing" the DAC to the transport would help, since the Sabre chip operates in async mode. Maybe it's Weiss specific feature that has nothing to do with the Sabre. :scratch:

The best DIY solution (IMO) would be Twisted Pear's Buffalo II DAC. I own the older Buffalo I model, and it still sounds stunningly good to my ears. I can only imagine what a Buffalo II with a proper I/V stage and a full set of Paul Hynes supplies would sound like. Perhaps Leo can enlighten us ;)

My only issue with the Buffalo II is the long lead time. I placed a (pre)order on July, and I'd be lucky if it arrives in early September!

Oh, and if you ever decide to go with the 'fflo, remember to pick up the "S/PDIF 4:1 MUX/Receiver Module" from TPA. The module "provides a four transformer-coupled S/PDIF inputs (one of which optionally supports balanced AES), a transformer-coupled S/PDIF output, and an I2S output". The Buffalo does not support AES input natively.

Cheers,

Agreed,the Buffalo is a great dac,sounds very good with the Ivy,but sounds much much better with Nick Gorham's valve output stage.I heard a dac at the last Owston that had both output stages built in,and for me there was no contest,the valve stage was far superior.

In fact when I heard an earlier breadboarded version of this at Nick's,it was the best digital source I've ever heard,period.

[squeezethatbuffalo]

Hi Ali,

I have no doubt that Nick's valve output stage sounds great. I still want to build one in the future, but I'll try the Legato first, since I already have the required power supplies and transformers.

That said, I think the Ivy deserves a little more credit than it's getting. Ivy's like the gold digger of the DIY world, you simply can't win its love before tossing a good amount of money at it :eyebrows:

Cheers,

[Ali Tait]

I guess you could say that about anything.

[squeezethatbuffalo]

Maybe you're right, but it does sound a lot better with high quality power supplies. It's ironic that the Ivy responds poorly to TPA's own kit.

[Ali Tait]

I don't doubt it,most things I've heard do sound better with a good PS.There was a big difference between the two stages on the day,and knowing Nick,neither would have been stinted.

[squeezethatbuffalo]

I have no doubt that Nick's valve output stage sounds better, I'm merely saying the Ivy doesn't sound as bad as certain folks on diyaudio make it seem. I should've been more clear on that ;)

[Ali Tait]

Oh no,it didn't sound bad at all,in fact it sounded rather good.It was just that the valve stage sounded a lot better to my ears.

[leo]

I'd love to see how the W4S measures up to the newer DAC202, as both are based on the same chip.

My money would be on the Weiss , I've not heard either yet but judging by pics of the innards the Weiss looks like its had more care put into the important bits :eyebrows:

BTW Alex, I compared the PH shunt regs against the TP shunts at the weekend, it was only a quick test, certainly an audible difference ;)

[squeezethatbuffalo]

Agreed Leo. I expect the DAC202 to be better, I'm just curious by how much.

"Audible difference"? Hopefully not as audible compared to what I experienced on Buf24 and 32 :lol: