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This section seems to have become a stagnant backwater! Any news, Stan?
There is a seg test on audio science review
Not good reading............
Actually i find it quite a fun read, i cant remember the last time a product got such a reaction.
Yes, that’s a very damning review, followed by even more damning comments! He obviously didn’t get the instructions re power supply though. I’m pretty sure my SEG/ Dorado sounds better than his 😉
Lawrence001
07-10-2021, 21:53
Must look at it, if it gets a worse review than my Audio Gd R2R 11 then it might be even better, and I'll have to consider buying one.
Re tested using the dorado but even less impressed now :rolleyes:
It measures well enough to be transparent, I wouldn't worry about it.
Good job it only costs $200, if it had been expensive it would have got a proper pasting. The £13K Totaldac has similar measurements but got 90 pages worth of abuse:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-totaldac-d1-six-dac.8192/
Theadmans
09-10-2021, 10:23
Here's a direct link to the SEG review:-
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/beresford-caiman-seg-review-stereo-dac.27135/
This all seems very strange?
I have a SEG will all the updates running through a Dorado MK1 at 15v
It sounds fantastic driving my Sennheiser HD650s.
Obviously the reviewer didn't initially understand that the Dorado needs charging up.
I know measurements aren't everything but I still cannot square this review with the sound I am hearing from my SEG.
Theadmans
09-10-2021, 10:25
It would be great if Stan could give his view on the points raised in the review.
Is there something wrong with the reviewed SEG?
I know measurements aren't everything but I still cannot square this review with the sound I am hearing from my SEG.
The measurements are poor compared to how state-of-the art DACs measure, it doesn't mean it will sound any worse than them. The jitter, distortion etc isn't high enough to be audible.
Theadmans
09-10-2021, 11:13
The measurements are poor compared to how state-of-the art DACs measure, it doesn't mean it will sound any worse than them. The jitter, distortion etc isn't high enough to be audible.
Thanks Martin - that is reassuring.
In my main lounge Hi-Fi I have a Creek 50CD CD Player / DAC and Creek 50A amplifier...
Mike Creek would probably have a fit - because between the Creek Amp and CD/DAC I have a Rock Grotto modified Musical Fidelity X10D tube buffer:-
https://i.ibb.co/Jncqk6c/893185-C1-8-F5-B-4158-AFFD-28787-E4109-AD.jpg
...Sounds wonderful - but I daresay doesn't do much for the distortion measurements!
I have two old Standacs and they just keep going. I have no complaints, but they are rather dated, and better numbers come out of newer models.
I wonder would I hear the difference?
Well I just thought I'd have a try at one of ASR's darling DACs - the S.M.S.L. Sanskrit 10th Mk2. On paper it looked to be an interesting proposition, particularly for the price - low distortion, large bit depth, etc.
Also I intended to hook it up to a Gallium Nitride 5V power supply (far better than the usual s.m.p.s), feeding data from a picoreplayer. Analogue output went into a Schiit Asgard 3 and Audeze LCD-2C / HifiMan HE5XX headphones.
In terms of sound the outcome was okay, but in this game 'okay' just doesn't cut it. Musically, my Beresford Caiman II with Dorado I totally annihilated it.
While I appreciate that good measurements are an indicator that a DAC is working, when it comes to how well the DAC conveys the emotion of the performance, the measurements used by ASR appear to be the equivalent of looking backwards through a telescope...
Perhaps a more valuable and meaningful result would come from measuring the logarithm of the non-linear phase response deviation vs frequency.
Anyway, thankfully with Amazon I am returning the S.M.S.L.
Andrew
StanleyB
25-10-2021, 11:48
It would be great if Stan could give his view on the points raised in the review.
Is there something wrong with the reviewed SEG?
I am accustomed to bad measurement reviews. The input on measuring equipment tend to be a passive resistance load of constant value, like 50, 75, 300 Ohms. But in real life the inputs and outputs on audio equipment tend to be reactive and of constantly changing value. So Measurements can differ. That's where actual listening tests come into it.
StanleyB
25-10-2021, 11:49
This section seems to have become a stagnant backwater! Any news, Stan?
Still experimenting with various things.
Still experimenting with various things.
Here’s me trying to find the ‘like’ button.
Andrew
Here’s me trying to find the ‘like’ button.
Andrew
And me too.
Nowadays,
it’s gotten way to easy to ‘play to the crowd’ and put someone down.
How do you get back from that?
It’s a terrible argument anyway?
Top Tier turntables and valve amps can measure terribly, but boy do they engage the Heart.
use your ears folks, not some Rando on the Internet and their weird agenda.
It's interesting that people get upset when some piece of equipment they own and like turns out not to measure especially well.
My favourite power amp does not measure that well compared to the current state of the art from Benchmark, Hypex, Neurochrome, but I'm not going to rush out and replace it as there's nothing to be gained in terms of sound quality. If I was needing a new amplifier though then I would probably get one of the above since they do not cost any more than the poorer-measuring alternatives so it would ,make no sense not to have the state of the art.
Understanding how measurements relate to audibility is useful in this context. As Gaz says turntables are still capable of producing an entrancing sound despite that they have orders of magnitude higher levels of jitter and distortion than that no-name DVD player you found in a skip. If it's inaudible then it doesn't matter.
Understanding how measurements relate to audibility is useful in this context. As Gaz says turntables are still capable of producing an entrancing sound despite that they have orders of magnitude higher levels of jitter and distortion than that no-name DVD player you found in a skip. If it's inaudible then it doesn't matter.
Agreed, the mechanics of vinyl replay create distortion products which can add (in the sense of the root sum square) in total of up to 15% or more. There is the distortion of vinyl record (caused by imperfections in the cutter head), distortion of the pickup cartridge, tracing distortion (due to the stylus profile differing from that of the cutter), tracking distortion (due to a pivoted arm being unable to follow the radial path of the cutter); as well as the rumble and wow and flutter of the turntable. Plus of course errors due to the RIAA circuitry not following the ideal curve, and the fact that the available dynamic range that can be cut into vinyl is limited.
It's a wonder vinyl replay sounds any good at all! That it does is due to most of the distortion products being even order (second harmonic) which are euphonic to the ear.
It's not difficult to understand why many music lovers now only play CDs. :sofa:
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