Celestion - what to choose

[MisterMoseley]

good morning all
new member here.
long term lover of music, but don’t have the experience of many others of having used/owned different hi-if components.
I was only asking the other day where I was during the time when British companies made some of the best (affordable) hifi kit around and I let it pass me by.
Anyway, for reasons which I can’t really explain I have a desire to try a pair of legacy Celestion Dittons. I would have liked to try some Tannoy DCs but my budget just isn’t going to stretch that far. Well I suppose it could if I could be sure from the outset that I was getting my “for ever” speakers.
I’m struggling to know where to start.
the obvious place is perhaps a pair of 15Xrs, but I’ve also tried to read up on 25s, 33s, 44s and 66s. I wouldn’t mind having to tidy up the cabinets but I would not have the skills to change internal components, etc.
If relevant, the room size is 4.3m * 3.8m & my amp is a Rega Brio. I have a nasty bass hump/standing wave present at around 44/45Hz which when I use my streamer, I can equalise this out so that the house doesn’t shake.
I guess what I’m looking for are a pair of speakers which will last me a few years without having the constant urge to upgrade to something “better”.
Any help very much appreciated, even if it’s to say give up before you start and just enjoy what you have (which by the way are a mint pair of Castle Severn 2s which are a delight to listen to from a non-fatiguing perspective).
What should I look out for with Celestions? Are there any obvious pitfalls, danger signs, etc. How easy/difficult ,might it be to source replacement parts?
Are any of the models such a head and shoulders jump above others that those are the ones to go for?
Thanks everyone.
Stuart

[Macca]

The 66 are not bad but I don't think a Brio R will have enough welly to do them justice. None of the others are worth considering as 'forever' speakers IMV.

I'd go with the Tannoy DC. They come up fairly regular around the £2K mark.

[struth]

probably look for something fairly sensitive if i were you.. 90+db. probably avoid the older celestions.

[Lawrence001]

Does it have to be vintage as the A range are exceptional speakers?

[walpurgis]

I've heard all the Celestions you mention many times, I can't say there are any I'd like to own again.

In my opinion the original Ditton 15 is preferable to the 15XR and probably easier to live with than the others too.

If you have a bass problem the last thing you need is a pair of Ditton 25's or 66's. They'd probably boom like crazy.

The 44, 25 and 66 use the HF2000 tweeter, which is a fragile device and often blown, replacements are pricey and getting scarce. There are questionable alternatives.

Personally, I'd sooner listen to a set of KEFs from the same era.

[MisterMoseley]

The 66 are not bad but I don't think a Brio R will have enough welly to do them justice. None of the others are worth considering as 'forever' speakers IMV.

I'd go with the Tannoy DC. They come up fairly regular around the £2K mark.

Thanks. Amongst the many questions in my mind, I did wonder if the Brio might be a bit lacking.

[MisterMoseley]

probably look for something fairly sensitive if i were you.. 90+db. probably avoid the older celestions.

Thank you. Exactly the sort of advice I need to prevent me making a colossal mistake. I appreciate the help.

[MisterMoseley]

Does it have to be vintage as the A range are exceptional speakers?
Thanks for taking the time to reply. No, it doesn’t have to be the older Celestions. I haven’t come across the A series before - I’ll have a look. Is there a particular model you would point me towards?

[Haselsh1]

I remember back around 1983 listening to a pair of Celestion SL6's and being completely blown away by the vocal realism. The track in question was by Joan Armatrading 'Love and affection' and was truly amazing. The demo was at a local dealer using a Logic DM101 and Crimson Electric monoblocks and preamp. I've never forgotten that sound.

[MisterMoseley]

I've heard all the Celestions you mention many times, I can't say there are any I'd like to own again.

In my opinion the original Ditton 15 is preferable to the 15XR and probably easier to live with than the others too.

If you have a bass problem the last thing you need is a pair of Ditton 25's or 66's. They'd probably boom like crazy.

The 44, 25 and 66 use the HF2000 tweeter, which is a fragile device and often blown, replacements are pricey and getting scarce. There are questionable alternatives.

Personally, I'd sooner listen to a set of KEFs from the same era.

Thanks.
Again, just the sort of information I need to stop me making a big mistake. I really appreciate comments from members who have actual experience of these speakers, which I do not.
Could I ask if there are particular KEF models that you would point me towards?

[walpurgis]

I remember back around 1983 listening to a pair of Celestion SL6's and being completely blown away by the vocal realism. The track in question was by Joan Armatrading 'Love and affection' and was truly amazing. The demo was at a local dealer using a Logic DM101 and Crimson Electric monoblocks and preamp. I've never forgotten that sound.

Yes, they are better than those originally mentioned.

[walpurgis]

Could I ask if there are particular KEF models that you would point me towards?

Well don't let me put you off Celestions, you'd probably find the original Ditton 15's good fun. The ones with the HF1300 tweeter. They tend to be very reliable if not over-driven.

As for earlier KEFs, I have a soft spot for the original Concerto and the Chorale. I like the Corelli a lot! I never quite came to terms with the 'rubbery' ABR bass from the 104 variants and the Cadenza, but they're not bad.

A lot of Concertos have been ripped apart by people looking for B110 drivers for their LS3/5a clone builds and as spares.

[Wakefield Turntables]

The original 15's are to my ears the best and I've modded 4 pairs of 15XR's and 15's, the sensitivity of the original 15's is 90db.

[Macca]

Thanks for taking the time to reply. No, it doesn’t have to be the older Celestions. I haven’t come across the A series before - I’ll have a look. Is there a particular model you would point me towards?

The range is
A Compact
A1
A2
A3

the A3 are monsters and superb but too big for your room. I had the A2 for many years, good speaker but again large with very deep bass, might be too much for your room
The A1 and the Compact are small two-ways, the A1 is very good but not a 'forever' speaker. I've never heard the Compact.

My suggestion for a forever speaker for your room would be JBL. There was a pair on here recently that would have been ideal but I think they have sold now.

Any of their 3 way standmount models from about 1977 to 1990, should all come in at a grand or less. Get some before more people discover them.

[Lawrence001]

I used to be a vintage Kef fanboy until I bought some B&W DM2As them I realised that the Kef's, while good for their age, could be surpassed by contemporaries. In particularly their adherence to the T27 tweeter with known issues (later corrected by the aB upgrade on the Ref 104s) and B110 (which needed quite a bit of correction in the crossover to sound as good as it did in the LS3/5a).

I always found the addition of a HF2000 supertweeter to be beneficial to the sound of Kef drivers like in the Cambridge R50. I'm sure that would be the case with the Celestions too.

Regarding the A series I guess it depends on the size of your room, Is say the A1 or A2 depending on whether you want a bit more bass or don't like standmounts.

But I'd also recommend trying the B&W DM2As. There was always something about them I found myself going back to. So much so I've owned 3 or 4 pairs over the years. They do benefit from a low stand though (about 20-30cm) and shouldn't be mounted higher. Atacama make nice ones with 4 legs, I forget the model but there's an XL version for these sort of BBC dimensions.

[MisterMoseley]

Well don't let me put you off Celestions, you'd probably find the original Ditton 15's good fun. The ones with the HF1300 tweeter. They tend to be very reliable if not over-driven.

As for earlier KEFs, I have a soft spot for the original Concerto and the Chorale. I like the Corelli a lot! I never quite came to terms with the 'rubbery' ABR bass from the 104 variants and the Cadenza, but they're not bad.

A lot of Concertos have been ripped apart by people looking for B110 drivers for their LS3/5a clone builds and as spares.

Thanks for the info.

[MisterMoseley]

The original 15's are to my ears the best and I've modded 4 pairs of 15XR's and 15's, the sensitivity of the original 15's is 90db.

Thanks for the info

[MisterMoseley]

My suggestion for a forever speaker for your room would be JBL. There was a pair on here recently that would have been ideal but I think they have sold now.

Any of their 3 way standmount models from about 1977 to 1990, should all come in at a grand or less. Get some before more people discover them.

Thank you for the A series list.
re the JBLs - have obviously heard the name but no experience of them. Do any specific models come to mind?

[MisterMoseley]

But I'd also recommend trying the B&W DM2As. There was always something about them I found myself going back to. So much so I've owned 3 or 4 pairs over the years. They do benefit from a low stand though (about 20-30cm) and shouldn't be mounted higher. Atacama make nice ones with 4 legs, I forget the model but there's an XL version for these sort of BBC dimensions.
Thank you for this information.
Again, although no first hand experience, I had it in my head that B&W can be quite “forward” sounding. Not sure where this comes from though.
I’ll have a look at the DM2As as you suggest. Thanks.

[Macca]

Thank you for the A series list.
re the JBLs - have obviously heard the name but no experience of them. Do any specific models come to mind?

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/jbl/l-series.shtml

[Lawrence001]

Thank you for this information.
Again, although no first hand experience, I had it in my head that B&W can be quite “forward” sounding. Not sure where this comes from though.
I’ll have a look at the DM2As as you suggest. Thanks.That will be their house sound in recent years, going back then they were more neutral.

These Celestions are very good.

https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/celestion-a2s-3-bar-tweeter-cherry-finish.258983/

[MisterMoseley]

That will be their house sound in recent years, going back then they were more neutral.

These Celestions are very good.

https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/celestion-a2s-3-bar-tweeter-cherry-finish.258983/
Thank you for the link.
A real shame, though. Having had a look at some photos and if I’m not mistaken, all of the “A” range are rear ported and with my standing wave issues in the lounge, I’ve vowed never again to have a pair of rear ported speakers.
The search continues but at least there are now a few more names on the list.

[walpurgis]

You didn't actually say how old in vintage terms you'd consider, there are good speakers going back to the sixties and some even before.

Do you have a budget limit and what's the biggest speaker you'd consider?

[MisterMoseley]

You didn't actually say how old in vintage terms you'd consider, there are good speakers going back to the sixties and some even before.

Do you have a budget limit and what's the biggest speaker you'd consider?

Thanks. If I’m being sensible - and because I don’t have the skills to carry out upgrades and repairs - I guess I really shouldn’t be looking at anything much over 30/35 years old?
The biggest speaker would have to be no more than about 90/95cm tall and say 30/35cm wide. Anything bigger would not only look rubbish in the lounge but also wouldn’t be ‘rubber stamped’.
I haven’t totally ruled out stand mounts either but I’ve got quite used to my current floor standers and like how they look.
I could never see myself spending over £1000 on used speakers unless my numbers came up!
I guess I’d be happier in the £300-£500 range.

[Alex_UK]

I have a Rega Brio-R and have tried a fair few pairs of speakers with it over the years - with my Spendor SP1’s it sounds fantastic, but it depends on what qualities of sound you are after, and what sort of music you listen to. I focus on clarity of sound especially in the midrange and not really a “bass head” and the combination works very well. I’m very much a fan of the “BBC sound” which the SP1’s exemplify, but probably older than you’re looking for and getting rare to find in good cosmetic condition. Another set in my collection which work well is a pair of RAM 150’s - similar sound, and dimensions, but a bit bassier with an additional ABR instead of a super tweeter - similar era and looks to the Celestions which were their contemporary but don’t come up very often, although currently a pair on eBay at £165 which would be good value.

Currently the Rega is wired up to a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 220’s which are nowhere near your “brief” as they are relatively modern and much cheaper, but again, really sing as a combination if you are not playing at ridiculous volumes or want bass to bring down the ceiling.

One of my all time favourite speakers at the budget end which sing with just about anything is the KEF Coda 9 floorstander from the 90’s which you could get for less than a ton and would really surprise most people if they haven’t heard them...

[MisterMoseley]

I have a Rega Brio-R and have tried a fair few pairs of speakers with it over the years - with my Spendor SP1’s it sounds fantastic, but it depends on what qualities of sound you are after, and what sort of music you listen to. I focus on clarity of sound especially in the midrange and not really a “bass head” and the combination works very well. I’m very much a fan of the “BBC sound” which the SP1’s exemplify, but probably older than you’re looking for and getting rare to find in good cosmetic condition. Another set in my collection which work well is a pair of RAM 150’s - similar sound, and dimensions, but a bit bassier with an additional ABR instead of a super tweeter - similar era and looks to the Celestions which were their contemporary but don’t come up very often, although currently a pair on eBay at £165 which would be good value.

Currently the Rega is wired up to a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 220’s which are nowhere near your “brief” as they are relatively modern and much cheaper, but again, really sing as a combination if you are not playing at ridiculous volumes or want bass to bring down the ceiling.

One of my all time favourite speakers at the budget end which sing with just about anything is the KEF Coda 9 floorstander from the 90’s which you could get for less than a ton and would really surprise most people if they haven’t heard them...

I keep reading and hearing so much about BBC type speakers (LS3/5A and the like) and Spendor, Harbeth, Rogers, etc that I’ve been wondering for some time now if it’s a type of speaker that I should listen to whilst my hearing is still holding up.
My music tastes are varied; Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Springsteen, Elton, happy to listen to 60s/70s but no heavy metal, dance music or classical.

[Lawrence001]

Thank you for the link.
A real shame, though. Having had a look at some photos and if I’m not mistaken, all of the “A” range are rear ported and with my standing wave issues in the lounge, I’ve vowed never again to have a pair of rear ported speakers.
The search continues but at least there are now a few more names on the list.I know what you mean but I had a very interesting experience with the A3s and A2s. They were both near the wall and there was no boom. I couldn't explain why it was almost as though they had been designed to minimise the effect of the rear wall.

[walpurgis]

My music tastes are varied; Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Springsteen, Elton, happy to listen to 60s/70s but no heavy metal, dance music or classical.

Well a year or two back, I was listening to all that kind of stuff including dance, heavy metal and classical through large Tannoy Cheviot II speakers with the Monitor 3128 drivers and they sounded superb. Might be a bit above your budget though and a bit big, not to mention scarce. But right now I'm using a modest set of KEF Corellis and they are equally great in their own way, for the size I find them very satisfying.

[Patrick Dixon]

I used Ditton 66s for several years with a Rega Brio R and they were good - way too good for the TV duties they did for most of the time. They are now being used (again with a Brio R) by a friend of mine, and he loves them.

So don't be put off.

The person who has them now previously had Ditton 44s which he enjoyed, but not as much as the 66s. The 66s have a better midrange that the 44s.

My pair of 66s had been upgraded with Hiquphon tweeters and the crossovers tweeked to compensate. There are meg threads on DIY audio about Ditton crossovers.

I'm not a big fan of Tannoys; yes they're dynamic but I've never heard a pair that I liked enough to buy. I'm also not a big fan of BBC LS3/5A style speakers, as they are a bit too polite and boring for me.

[MisterMoseley]

I used Ditton 66s for several years with a Rega Brio R and they were good - way too good for the TV duties they did for most of the time. They are now being used (again with a Brio R) by a friend of mine, and he loves them.

So don't be put off.

The person who has them now previously had Ditton 44s which he enjoyed, but not as much as the 66s. The 66s have a better midrange that the 44s.

My pair of 66s had been upgraded with Hiquphon tweeters and the crossovers tweeked to compensate. There are meg threads on DIY audio about Ditton crossovers.

I'm not a big fan of Tannoys; yes they're dynamic but I've never heard a pair that I liked enough to buy. I'm also not a big fan of BBC LS3/5A style speakers, as they are a bit too polite and boring for me.

thank you for taking the time to reply.
I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that there are potentially so many choices that I probably need just to take the plunge, try something and see if I like it or not.
do you mind me asking what room size the 66s are now being used in?

[Alex_UK]

thank you for taking the time to reply.
I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that there are potentially so many choices that I probably need just to take the plunge, try something and see if I like it or not.

I'd agree Stuart - with the secondhand speaker market you'll almost certainly get your money back if you buy something you don't like, or maybe even make a profit if you're lucky! (or like me, end up with 13 pairs in your loft!)

[MisterMoseley]

I'd agree Stuart - with the secondhand speaker market you'll almost certainly get your money back if you buy something you don't like, or maybe even make a profit if you're lucky! (or like me, end up with 13 pairs in your loft!)

thanks Alex.
I know that this is what I’ll probably end up doing but I will have to tread very carefully. more than 2 sets of speakers in the house will leave me in deep water!
and I absolutely hate all the hassle associated with selling anything which isn’t easy to post!
Ah well, needs must I suppose.
there are some Celestion 15XRs quite near me which could be a good starting point.
regards
Stuart

[Patrick Dixon]

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that there are potentially so many choices that I probably need just to take the plunge, try something and see if I like it or not.

Yes, that's really what you need to do. In pre-covid times, you could go and listen to other people's systems and get an idea of what works and doesn't work for you, and also some of the shows (particularly the forum ones) are good for hearing a lot of combinations of equipment available secondhand; but that's a bit harder now.

The other way is to buy stuff that's easily saleable and that you won't loose much money on, and just stop when you find something that works for you. Of course the chopping and changing can easily turn into a habit if you are not careful.


do you mind me asking what room size the 66s are now being used in?
From memory it would be about 4m x 5m, a single story extension. When they were here they were in a 5m x 6m room with a 'cathedral' roof. I don't think they are particularly hard to drive.

Since you have a Brio R, you could always look at something from the Rega range. I haven't owned a lot of their stuff but have always been impressed whenever I've heard it and I'm sure there must be some Rega floorstanders going for not too much money.

I believe there is a long thread on here about restoring a pair of 66s which you might enjoy reading. The tweeters are a weak point as they are old and NLA, but there are reasonable alternatives that can be used with a small tweak to the crossover. They are also very easy to work on. 66s can be quite expensive now so you could try 44s to start with and see how you get on. They are not as good, but will have a similar character.

[Macca]

the Ditton 44 does not have the same character as the 66. The 44, whilst it has it's good points is too flawed to be worth serious consideration. They really are not similar.

A Brio will work with the 66 in that sound will come out but the 66 impedance drops to 4 ohm and the Brio is not at its best with low impedance loads. So sound quality, although it might be acceptable, will be sub-optimal IME. With vintage Celestions lower down the line it should be fine.

It absolutely won't work with a Celestion A2 as that offers a very difficult load to the amplifier, there will be poor bass performance and a rolled off top end. Been there, done that.

[Patrick Dixon]

Yeah, had 44s and 66s. They are similar enough.

[Macca]

Yeah, had 44s and 66s. They are similar enough.

In what way? I've owned 44s and heard 66 many times. I'd say the only real similarity is that they are both loudspeakers and have a Celestion badge.

Midrange is completely different, bass performance, not comparable. Do they even use the same tweeter? I can't recall.

Anyway as a former owner I would say absolutely don't bother with the 44. I'd take the Castle Severns over them any day and I'm not that keen on them either :)

[MisterMoseley]

Well, I’ve gone and “done it’.
As per my previous post, I’d begun to realise the best way forward was (having listened to pros & cons), to go and buy a pair of speakers, try them out, see if I like the sound with a view to deciding if it that make/range of speakers was for me. Not thinking for one minute that my purchase would be the end of the story. And if I didn’t like what I was hearing or simply didn’t like the speakers, sell them on and try something else.
earlier this afternoon, I won an auction for and then picked up a pair of 15XRs. All in the space of a couple of hours!
The speakers are currently sitting in my garage awaiting a good polish before coming into the lounge.
The cabinets are in pretty good nick apart from a small area on the front of the speaker where the trim is missing, exposing a small area of chipboard. So I don’t know the correct name for it, but I need to find some very thin, possibly triangular shaped ‘beading’, probably 2/3mm wide.
Any ideas much appreciated.
Also, would anybody know if it’s OK to put rubber conditioner onto the rubber surround of the mid range driver. I can see some very light cracking and thought I should attempt to do something about it.
My sincere thanks to all who have posted above.
I’m interested to see how they sound compared to my Castle Severns.

[Pigmy Pony]

My mum used to have 15XRs, which I borrowed for a while when I was between speakers. Much better than I expected them to be. When I inherited them a few years ago I should have kept them, but no room in this house for surplus stuff. So I sold them at a car boot sale. They were nearly mint and I let them go for £30. I'm still pissed off with myself :(

Also Marco has (had) a pair which he had tweaked, and rated them highly. Let us know what you think.

[struth]

Well, I’ve gone and “done it’.
As per my previous post, I’d begun to realise the best way forward was (having listened to pros & cons), to go and buy a pair of speakers, try them out, see if I like the sound with a view to deciding if it that make/range of speakers was for me. Not thinking for one minute that my purchase would be the end of the story. And if I didn’t like what I was hearing or simply didn’t like the speakers, sell them on and try something else.
earlier this afternoon, I won an auction for and then picked up a pair of 15XRs. All in the space of a couple of hours!
The speakers are currently sitting in my garage awaiting a good polish before coming into the lounge.
The cabinets are in pretty good nick apart from a small area on the front of the speaker where the trim is missing, exposing a small area of chipboard. So I don’t know the correct name for it, but I need to find some very thin, possibly triangular shaped ‘beading’, probably 2/3mm wide.
Any ideas much appreciated.
Also, would anybody know if it’s OK to put rubber conditioner onto the rubber surround of the mid range driver. I can see some very light cracking and thought I should attempt to do something about it.
My sincere thanks to all who have posted above.
I’m interested to see how they sound compared to my Castle Severns.

https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Pine-Triangular-Bead-Moulding---20mm-x-20mm-x-2-4m/p/121306?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&scid=scplp121306&sc_intid=121306&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-NaJBhDsARIsAAja6dOxvgX9plBuzcPagkUEkSvwzdWh0Hf5Vb6 cKZYVzvn_Oebbv6nmLHgaAi4HEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Patrick Dixon]

I'd say the only real similarity is that they are both loudspeakers and have a Celestion badge.

Midrange is completely different, bass performance, not comparable. Do they even use the same tweeter? I can't recall.


They use the same tweeter, bass driver and crossover. The midrange on the 66 is different (and much nicer) and the 66 has the passive radiator too.

[MisterMoseley]

[QUOTE=Pigmy Pony
Also Marco has (had) a pair which he had tweaked, and rated them highly. Let us know what you think.[/QUOTE]

It could well be a few days before I connect them up but very happy to report back

[MisterMoseley]

https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Pine-Triangular-Bead-Moulding---20mm-x-20mm-x-2-4m/p/121306?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&scid=scplp121306&sc_intid=121306&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-NaJBhDsARIsAAja6dOxvgX9plBuzcPagkUEkSvwzdWh0Hf5Vb6 cKZYVzvn_Oebbv6nmLHgaAi4HEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Thank you for the link. I’ll have a look.
having given the cabinets a quick polish, I’m fairly happy with overall condition apart from this small area of damage which I really do want to sort out.
unless anyone shouts very loudly ‘don’t do it’, I was planning to remove the speaker drivers from the cabinets just to make sure there aren’t any ‘nasty surprises’ lurking. Whether I would spot them even if there are, remains to be seen though.

[Patrick Dixon]

I would play them before you start taking them to bits.

[MisterMoseley]

I would play them before you start taking them to bits.

Thank you, Patrick. That’s probably some of the best (and much needed) advice I’ve received in ages.
I do have this tendency to “jump in” too quickly/not read instructions, etc, etc.
Stuart

[MisterMoseley]

My mum used to have 15XRs, which I borrowed for a while when I was between speakers. Much better than I expected them to be. When I inherited them a few years ago I should have kept them, but no room in this house for surplus stuff. So I sold them at a car boot sale. They were nearly mint and I let them go for £30. I'm still pissed off with myself :(

Also Marco has (had) a pair which he had tweaked, and rated them highly. Let us know what you think.

the 15XRs were connected to my system for about an hour or so earlier today.
limited listening time therefore so far.
I always seem to have trouble describing what I’m hearing in the same way as others can but initial impressions are that the Celestions are less ‘laid back’ than my Castle Severns - dare I say the overall sound is more ‘agressive’ (is that a hifi word?) than the Castles. Agressive in a good way, though. More detail and clarity, especially accoustic guitar.
listening to Don Henley vocals - more gritty on the 15XRs.
Bass is better defined.
Not sure if I’m going to find the Celestions as relaxing a listen as the Castles, but that could be in part getting used to a new sound.
Only had them sitting on chairs, not stands.
Fairly sure that all the drivers are working as they should.
Any thoughts or clarification as to what I think I’m hearing, much appreciated.

[Pigmy Pony]

the 15XRs were connected to my system for about an hour or so earlier today.
limited listening time therefore so far.
I always seem to have trouble describing what I’m hearing in the same way as others can but initial impressions are that the Celestions are less ‘laid back’ than my Castle Severns - dare I say the overall sound is more ‘agressive’ (is that a hifi word?) than the Castles. Agressive in a good way, though. More detail and clarity, especially accoustic guitar.
listening to Don Henley vocals - more gritty on the 15XRs.
Bass is better defined.
Not sure if I’m going to find the Celestions as relaxing a listen as the Castles, but that could be in part getting used to a new sound.
Only had them sitting on chairs, not stands.
Fairly sure that all the drivers are working as they should.
Any thoughts or clarification as to what I think I’m hearing, much appreciated.

So the Celestions are not necessarily better than the Castle Severns, just 'different'? Might be an idea to live with the 15XRs for a couple of weeks, playing a variety of your favourite music, then switch back to the Castles.

When I had use of my mother's ones, I had them on 16" (iirc) stands. Might make a difference :)

[MisterMoseley]

So the Celestions are not necessarily better than the Castle Severns, just 'different'? Might be an idea to live with the 15XRs for a couple of weeks, playing a variety of your favourite music, then switch back to the Castles.

When I had use of my mother's ones, I had them on 16" (iirc) stands. Might make a difference :)

Thanks.
Exactly how I’m feeling about the 15XRs at this early stage. Not better or worse but definitely different. Even I can hear it!
I’m currently looking at Atacamas -30cm stands. They would leave tweeters at ear height in normal seating position.

[Lawrence001]

Castles are well known for their natural, laid back sound - they are Marmite speakers, but if you really like them you might find you struggle with most other brands.

[Lawrence001]

In fact now you've mentioned Castles, I'm thinking Kef Reference Model 1/2/3/4, they are a beautiful sounding upgrade to the Castle sound. Don't get the .2 upgrades though as they deviated a bit from the laid back sound.

You'd also need a new amp after a while to get the most out of them as they thrive on power. Although they sound more laid back with less watts so you might enjoy them with the Rega.

[walpurgis]

Some detailed/close-up photos of the 15XR's would be good.

[MisterMoseley]

Some detailed/close-up photos of the 15XR's would be good.

Gladly. It’s the least I can do after all the help and advice I’ve received.
Will try to get it sorted later today.

[MisterMoseley]

Castles are well known for their natural, laid back sound - they are Marmite speakers, but if you really like them you might find you struggle with most other brands.

Thank you. I think that my lack of experience in (not) having listened to many different speakers over the years, is going to mean that the differences between different makes and models are going to come as a bit of a shock to me.
I like the way that my Castles sound but that it is probably only because I find them non fatiguing. Before the Castles, I had a pair of old MA Bronze (something) and I found them tiring to listen to and sold them on within months.
I have to accept that I am probably running out of years (and energy) to try and listen to all those speakers that I really should have listened to 20/30 years ago. I guess life just got in the way.

[MisterMoseley]

In fact now you've mentioned Castles, I'm thinking Kef Reference Model 1/2/3/4, they are a beautiful sounding upgrade to the Castle sound. Don't get the .2 upgrades though as they deviated a bit from the laid back sound.

You'd also need a new amp after a while to get the most out of them as they thrive on power. Although they sound more laid back with less watts so you might enjoy them with the Rega.
Sorry to have to ask what might appear a ‘dumb’ question (lack of experience again), but would the 104 AB be one of the speakers you’re referring to or am I just getting the model range totally muddled?
Thanks again
Stuart

[walpurgis]

Sorry to have to ask what might appear a ‘dumb’ question (lack of experience again), but would the 104 AB be one of the speakers you’re referring to or am I just getting the model range totally muddled?
Thanks again
Stuart

No. The 104 and the similar 104AB are earlier and still a well respected design and for some quite desirable. They are close relatives acoustically to the earlier Cadenza model and later Calinda speaker. Each of which utilises versions of the BD139 passive bass radiator (ABR). The Celestion Ditton 15XR and original Ditton 15 also employ ABR units, just in case you pop the lower driver out and wonder where the magnet went! :) Many manufacturers use passive radiators.

[MisterMoseley]

No. The 104 and the similar 104AB are earlier and still a well respected design and for some quite desirable. They are close relatives acoustically to the earlier Cadenza model and later Calinda speaker. Each of which utilises versions of the BD139 passive bass radiator (ABR). The Celestion Ditton 15XR and original Ditton 15 also employ ABR units, just in case you pop the lower driver out and wonder where the magnet went! :) Many manufacturers use passive radiators.

Thanks for the info. I had already realised that the lower driver was an ABR, but I'm grateful to you for pointing this out.

Well, hopefully below there should be some photos. I will apologise in advance, though. I've never posted any images on the forum before today and if there is an image size restriction, then I may have fallen foul of it.

Sadly, with a recent reformatting of a hard drive and re installation of Windows, I haven't yet got round to re-installing Lightroom, so don't know how to reduce image size in W10.

The final photo shows some minor damage to one of the cabinets. It's nothing major and looks much worse in the photo than in real life! I'm going to get hold of a 5mm veneer strip from somewhere and try to repair it unless anyone has a better idea.

Update - after uploading the photos, the order seems to have changed. So the photo showing cabinet damage may not be last. Photos of both speakers are included, though and you'll also see one of my Castle Severn 2s in the background.

[MisterMoseley]

Incidentally, if anyone could let me know what that horrid orange/brown discolouration on the ABR is, then I'd be most grateful.
Thank you all.

[MisterMoseley]

Believe it or not, I also have wanted ads for a pair of Ruark Talisman IIs which I've always wanted to try. Not instead of Celestions, but in addition to. I think I'm trying to make up for lost time!

Today and out of the blue, I was offered a pair in Rosewood. Sadly I had to decline and from the photos above, I guess you'll all be able to work out why.

[walpurgis]

Incidentally, if anyone could let me know what that horrid orange/brown discolouration on the ABR is, then I'd be most grateful.
Thank you all.

It's just aged assembly adhesive and normal. You'd probable cause damage trying to remove it.

[Pigmy Pony]

Incidentally, if anyone could let me know what that horrid orange/brown discolouration on the ABR is, then I'd be most grateful.
Thank you all.

Don't know, but my mum's had exactly the same 'staining'. And seeing other examples knocking about, I noted that this is quite normal, just a bit unsightly. I suppose that portion of the ABR could be 'painted' a colour that complements your decor - if they were mine my missus would have me do that, I know what she's like :)

[Lawrence001]

Bit left field but if you like the Castles these have just come up, and they are efficient so perfect for your Rega. Quite a fan base on the forums I'd go for it if I were you.

https://www.hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/154668-fs-living-voice-avatars/

[MisterMoseley]

Bit left field but if you like the Castles these have just come up, and they are efficient so perfect for your Rega. Quite a fan base on the forums I'd go for it if I were you.

https://www.hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/154668-fs-living-voice-avatars/

Thanks for the heads up. I’m a bit embarrassed to admit I’ve never hear of Living voice before today!
Sadly, irrespective of price, condition, SQ or anything else, they’re not for me as they’re in the one ‘colour’ which my lounge can’t take.
This is the second time today that there’s been a chance of a quality speaker, only to find it’s in the Rosewood colour. I was offered a pair of Talisman IIs on another forum earlier this afternoon.
I’m sure if I persevere something will come up - not that I actually need anything more - given that I currently own 2 pairs.

[vinylmagic]

I run a pair of 33s through either a vintage Sony or Trio receiver and love em., Both are 35/49wpc and my room is about 3.5m square and they fill it nicely with a lovely clean sound, then again the heaviest rock I would listen to would be Dire Straits or maybe some Hendrix.

Sent from my moto g pro using Tapatalk

[vinylmagic]

Thanks for the info. I had already realised that the lower driver was an ABR, but I'm grateful to you for pointing this out.

Well, hopefully below there should be some photos. I will apologise in advance, though. I've never posted any images on the forum before today and if there is an image size restriction, then I may have fallen foul of it.

Sadly, with a recent reformatting of a hard drive and re installation of Windows, I haven't yet got round to re-installing Lightroom, so don't know how to reduce image size in W10.

The final photo shows some minor damage to one of the cabinets. It's nothing major and looks much worse in the photo than in real life! I'm going to get hold of a 5mm veneer strip from somewhere and try to repair it unless anyone has a better idea.

Update - after uploading the photos, the order seems to have changed. So the photo showing cabinet damage may not be last. Photos of both speakers are included, though and you'll also see one of my Castle Severn 2s in the background.Well I'll be......

I have the same Ercol Hifi cabinet in my attic, Windsor range from mid 90s iirc.

Sent from my moto g pro using Tapatalk

[MisterMoseley]

Well I'll be......

I have the same Ercol Hifi cabinet in my attic, Windsor range from mid 90s iirc.

Sent from my moto g pro using Tapatalk

I’m guessing you already know just how much these fetch at auction?
That said, mine is going nowhere.
Thanks for replying.