View Full Version : Is TAOS a 'safe space'?
Having taken a 5 year break from audio DIY to do some life stuff I recently came back to the forums as I have a new workspace and with it the chance to go through my boxes of DIY stuff to resurrect some old projects.
On PFM I made a post about a low-cost high-ish performance mains cable design that I had come up with and was immediately deluged with spiteful ignorant comments such as "It's IMPOSSIBLE for a power cable to make any difference" and "Silver oxide is seriously non-conductive, there is NO place for silver in hifi designs, you NEED to read this study..." etc. I didn't bother mentioning my isolation transformer project after this because I was bound to get a lecture from a 70 year old sparky who thinks they are the only person on the planet capable of not killing themselves with 240v (a belt from a high current 25v DC source is MUCH more painful in my experience anyway).
Let's just say I didn't bother contributing any more to that particular thread! However I will be making some power cables and a balanced mains conditioner over the next year and I would like to share my experiences, and learn from others in an environment which is not utterly intolerant to certain ideas.
At least one of those responding on PFM has been banned from here which is why I'm thinking TAOS might be a better place to discuss such heresy :lol:
walpurgis
29-08-2021, 15:20
You can discuss anything you like in the appropriate area Thommy. AOS is a generally subjective forum and all sorts of ideas can be addressed without members being subjected to hostility or criticism. Politeness is expected from all parties. It is anticipated that not all opinions will be shared or agreed with. If ideas do not suit others, they are free to ignore them and not get involved.
.
hifinutt
29-08-2021, 15:20
yes some forums like the wam and others are cable sceptic . personally the forum you mentioned has kep me sane all through lockdown , its an incredible place but cables arouse strong feelings
other forums like whatsbest will happily discuss how a 10k cable can make a difference and no one will blink an eyelid !!!
art of sound is a very mixed bunch so yes its a safe place
just dont start with dc mains lol.. i used to work with a guy who worked on it.. nasty stuff.
welcome and as said as long as you dont put your subjective ideas down as fact you will have no issues, or a mod will step in.
Wakefield Turntables
29-08-2021, 15:47
The cable debate has done to death. The whole topic can be essentially compressed into one sentence, are you sitting down. Here goes.....
You either believe or don't believe cables make a difference.
OK, hope that tells you all you need to know.
This forum is one of the more tolerant - they even tolerate objectivists like me.
If you really want to be lynched try DIY Audio, I was.
We welcome all DIY threads, be they involve sources (pickup arms, turntables etc.), electronics (amplifiers, DACs etc.), loudspeakers (including crossover networks), and interconnects.
Where we would advise caution is with the design and construction of mains cables, for reasons of safety. This is very important - the UK mains system can be potentially fatal if you don't know exactly what you are doing.
Lawrence001
29-08-2021, 18:08
We welcome all DIY threads, be they involve sources (pickup arms, turntables etc.), electronics (amplifiers, DACs etc.), loudspeakers (including crossover networks), and interconnects.
Where we would advise caution is with the design and construction of mains cables, for reasons of safety. This is very important - the UK mains system can be potentially fatal if you don't know exactly what you are doing.+1
(That green and yellow bit that sticks out and goes into the plug is optional isn't it? And hardwiring across the fuse point is a cheap upgrade, right??)
AJSki2fly
31-08-2021, 16:40
+1
(That green and yellow bit that sticks out and goes into the plug is optional isn't it? And hardwiring across the fuse point is a cheap upgrade, right??)
Personally I find that hard wiring across a fuse with leftover silver foil from kit kat wrappers works best, it definitely gives a much improved soundstage and depth to the audio performance, subjectively that is. Who needs foo fuses. :lol:
https://i.ibb.co/D5Q49VX/fyse.jpg (https://ibb.co/NZKx9Vh)
the cheese instead of a visual warning is more a smello-warning.:eyebrows:
ive seen a few nails used in my day; silver foil was a regular usually wrapped around fuse
I like the 'auto alert' one.
wee tee cee
01-09-2021, 12:35
Personally I find that hard wiring across a fuse with leftover silver foil from kit kat wrappers works best, it definitely gives a much improved soundstage and depth to the audio performance, subjectively that is. Who needs foo fuses. :lol:
Used the silver paper out my fag packet to get my 550 kwak running to get shot of it at auction. Just unfortunate the main fuse had blown in the middle of the clyde tunnel....A rather memorable uphill push in full bike gear.
Whilst the above posts are amusing, they will do little to encourage Thommy to regard AoS as a "safe space" for him to discuss his design and construction of a mains cable. His post makes no mention of mains connectors, so it is a little unfair to show examples of the flagrent disregard and the overiding of mains plug safety features.
It would be much better to allow Thommmy to describe his design before opening it up for discussion and comment.
brucew268
07-09-2021, 14:05
I read TAOS, safe space, and life stuff and assumed this was about something completely different! Got that wrong.
Some hilarious responses here, thanks guys :lol:
Next time I make a cable I'll take some pics, post the construction process and if I omit the instructions on which wire goes to which pin on the plug, then that way TAOS should be out of the line of fire in case of any mishaps.
Personally I think that if you can't wire a plug correctly you have no business being in a DIY electronics forum to begin with. The discussion I want to kick off is more related to copper cross-section, insulation of the wires and interference rejection properties - rather than which wire goes to which pin on the plug.
Shovel_Knight
09-09-2021, 19:58
"Silver oxide is seriously non-conductive, there is NO place for silver in hifi designs, you NEED to read this study..." etc.
While silver tarnishes easily, silver tarnish is still a good conductor which is why military spec switches and connectors usually have silver plating.
Copper verdigris, on the other hand, is a semiconductor and really mucks up signal quality.
Beobloke
09-09-2021, 20:57
The discussion I want to kick off is more related to copper cross-section, insulation of the wires and interference rejection properties - rather than which wire goes to which pin on the plug.
OK, I’m happy to start:
- The cross section of the wires needs to be sufficient to carry the current required by the equipment. Anything more is a pointless.
- Insulation of the wires is a good idea otherwise they’ll short out.
- Interference rejection is the job of the equipment, not the cable.
walpurgis
10-09-2021, 07:16
Actually, that reminds me, I must unplug the the kettle cable from my amp and return it to the kitchen. :)
Actually, that reminds me, I must unplug the the kettle cable from my amp and return it to the kitchen. :)
I recently found that a DIY Supra shielded mains cable I made years ago was causing a fizzy sort of noise through the speakers when used with Class D amps. Everything construction wise was fine. I swapped in an old kettle lead and it was silent! Don't be too hasty to get it back in the kitchen!
anthonyTD
10-09-2021, 11:32
+1 Other than the safety aspect to mains cables that Barry and others have mentioned, as far as do mains cables make a diffrence, as long as the cable uses the correct guage of wire with suitable insulation material to cope with the voltage and current draw of the equipment its being used with, the correct fuse rating [if needed depending on country its likely to be used in etc ] and the correct termination of both plugs is also adered to, then in my opinion its a very subjective topic, and one i feel will go on and on, and...
Anyway; Welcome to AOS Thommy.
Whilst the above posts are amusing, they will do little to encourage Thommy to regard AoS as a "safe space" for him to discuss his design and construction of a mains cable. His post makes no mention of mains connectors, so it is a little unfair to show examples of the flagrent disregard and the overiding of mains plug safety features.
It would be much better to allow Thommmy to describe his design before opening it up for discussion and comment.
While silver tarnishes easily, silver tarnish is still a good conductor which is why military spec switches and connectors usually have silver plating.
Copper verdigris, on the other hand, is a semiconductor and really mucks up signal quality.
Silver 'tarnishes' in the atmosphere over time. The tarnish consists of silver oxide (intially Ag2O, further oxidising to AgO) and silver sulphide (Ag2S). Both of the oxides are transparent, whereas the sulpide is yellow in very thin films, becoming grey/black as the film thickness increases with time.
The resistivity of pure silver is 1.6 .10-8 Ohm.m; whereas that of the oxide and sulphide are ~ 5 .10-5 Ohm.m and 0.1 - 10 Ohm.m respectively. Clearly then the oxide is a poor conductor and the sulphide a semiconductor; but both are soft and the action of mating and demating a connector using solid or plated silver contacts will cut through any tarnish layer.
“Mating and demating” got me strangely hot under the collar there - this is a safe space, right? :lol:
It's a safe place, as long as you don't read the 'words daily' threads!:eek::D
Marco.
anthonyTD
12-09-2021, 09:01
:eek:
“Mating and demating” got me strangely hot under the collar there - this is a safe space, right? :lol:
“Mating and demating” got me strangely hot under the collar there - this is a safe space, right? :lol:
It's safe insomuch as there's no imminent danger.
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